Future Suspect Discussion: November and December

[Django]

Time for some copy paste.

As with every new tier there are bound to be suspects, and with the lower tiers, changes within a specific tier may cause certain pokemon to become overpowered. This thread is where you can disscuss them. Please back up all arguments with experience; if you have no clue about what you are talking about, don't talk. Obvious suspects will get their own threads, but for the more controversial suspects we may need to wait until the tier is more balanced(most likely a week and a half into the month).

When you bring a Pokemon up for discussion, state why you think it is broken (It walls most of the tier, it can set-up on and sweep most of the tier, etc.). Common move sets and calculations would be very helpful.

Enjoy!

[Professor Oak**]

Looks like it's up to me to say it:

Hitmonlee is borked.

There are currently 2 Pokemon in the tier that can stand up to Hitmonlee - Drifblim and Golurk. Golurk can take pretty much anything fairly well, but Drifblim is destroyed by Stone Edge. Regardless, everyone was thinking "Oh, Hitmonlee will be fine, Duosion will handle it no problem!"

Adamant CB Lee does ~46-54% to Max/Max + Eviolite Duosion. Just saying.

Seriously, it alone is the reason as to why I'm currently undefeated this tier list thus far.

[Reneko]

I have yet to do much with the new additions, but in the couple games I did play, Electivire was a beast. He is bulkier, quicker, and has a larger moveset than the past common physical sweeper, Sawk. His ability to be a mixed sweeper and take advantage of a diverse movepool is downright scary. If you're not part Ground, good luck eating a Thunder from this guy.

[Django]

I agree that Hitmonlee needs to be looked into. The Choice Band set wrecks anything that isn't ghost type, and how hard is it really to run something with Pursuit.

Electivire seems fantastic on paper but I have never really seen it do much. With that movepool and offenses it definitely has the potential to be a top tier threat though.

[Stofil]

E-Vire suffers from the terrible disease of godlike theorymon, terrible in practice. He might actually be too much for NU though, he's definately worth looking into here.

[Luck>Skill]

I used Electivire

CM Musharna used it as setup fodder

...no

Instead of screaming broken on theoryc things, slap a Charizard in your team and rape the opposition

BROKENZARD @ Choice Specs
252 Spatk 252 Speed 4 SpDef
Timid
Fire blast
Air Slash
HP Grass
Focus Blast / Dragon Pulse

GG NU

Oh, and in case you are wondering, only Flareon checks this...and if sun is up, Flareon is 2HKOd by Air Slash...no biggie amirite? :3

EDIT: for your own amusement: Zard beats Slowking with sun/Blaze + spikes, so yeah...

[Galblade]

I think Duosion should be the next thing we look at. it definitely is a better Musharna, with its better recovery, immunity to poison damage and better SpAtk stat before a boost.

Checks/counters?
knock off mons are hit hard after they switch in on a CM. most knock off mons are dead weight after doing so bar Tangela.
Dark pokemon have the same problem with Duosion as they do Musharna. They can't OHKO without a CB + positive nature (which is subpar), and they don't like HP fighting that all duosions run (barring Skuntank).
Haze: Cryogonal and Golbat being the better users of this move (besides the NEU Murkrow) and both are beaten by Duosion anyway. Cryogonal really dislikes Psyshock, Golbat really dislikes Psychic attacks.
Phazing: Storm thowers are weak to it, most Roar/WW mons are steel types with no recovery. Phazing it out doesn't help much anyway since it can't be worn down by hazards...

[Luck>Skill]

I'd still use Musharna over it...but that's just me

A pokemon I'm still unsure about is Scolipede. Has mainly 2 sets...the hazards one with spikes/tspikes then 2 attacks, or the SD one, that's the possibly borked one...SD Megahorn EQ Rock Slide, it's checked only by the ghosts in the tier, and we all know that Serene Grace is a bitch to deal with, 1 flinch and your ghost is dead (the only one having a chance is Golurk at this point)...opinions?

[Galblade]

I agree with Scolipede. That speed it just too much also. relying on scarfers to attempt to counter it is risky, and letting it set up a SD usually means gg.

[Shadowheart]

Scolipede is starting to look a bit Roseradish to me (lol radish.) Any mon that can stop the offensive set gets spiked on really easily and vice-versa. I've been seeing the same sort of thing with Crustle. Either Shell Smash or Spikes, is difficult to stop both but maybe everyone else doesn't see that as broken, I dunno.

[pokemonnerd]

Scolipede will be getting a suspect thread soon, unless counters to both sets start miraculously revealing themselves. The three of us have just been on the fence about it, but enough people are speaking up about it(at least on the server) to suspect it regardless of what me, Luck and Django think.

[1996ITO]

I hope someone supports my idea of HAIL being broken in NU. I have a few reasons but atleast good reasons:

1. Good special attackers(Blizzard Spam): There are pokes such as Jynx and Cryogonal (or the icecream I don't remember) with a pretty high SAtk which can afford a good use of Blizzard due to their Speed and Hail being the unique weather in the metagame that doesn't need the move Hail.

2. Abilities: Glaceon can use its Snow Cloak to avoid attacks and making people cry (LOL). In the other side, one of the bulkiest NU pokémon: Walrein. This pokemon can annoy SubProtecting (sometimes with Toxic and Hail) making your pokés unable to do something, Roaring to send out a SubSetting-Up poké which could cause problems to it.

3. It seems a bit trolly: CLEFFA/CLEFAIRY bros: Those pokémon especially at level one can annoy a lot with Endeavor + Hail. The only way to avoid the annoying move are Ghost Type pokés, but Encore and T-Wave do also a good work to piss you off.

So yeah... I got mad with this... thought... LOL, but really, do not avoid this post.

[Galblade]

I think Walrein is the only thing that breakshail tbh. That bulk and lack of spinners means unless you're running a poison type to absorb Tspikes from Scolipede, its gunna stall out your team. it sets up sub on more than 2/3 of the metagame and once it has, gl breaking it.

Glaceon is trollish I agree, but its like Mamo and can only use Snow Cloak offensively (aside from SR).

[Aurist]

I agree with Galblade re Walrein, though Jynx being able to just blizzspam everywhere is quite a problem too...

[Django]

Guys remember, the Hail suspect thread still exists. Post in there if you still feel Hail is unbalanced

[TP5K]

I think we should definitely look into Duosion leaving and open up a suspect thread for it. Its got some pretty alright defense, it's immune to status basically, and it's got CM and recover. then it sweeps your team with Psychic and HP Fighting/Shadow Ball. It's just... too good. Hariyama and Tangela (knock off) also don't appreciate a boosted Psychic. But then again, it could just be the eviolite problem...

[emac]

I would like us to look at tangela as a possible suspect. It has a massive defense stat and can deal with any physical attacker in the tier not named emboar or dodrio. My main problem with it is its regenerator ability. Due to it, you almost always have to face it at full health and the small amounts of damage that tangela takes throughout the match can be completely negated on the switch out. It is also isn't easily set up on because of its access to moves like sleep powder, leech seed, and knock off, as well as its base 100 special attack stat. Tangela is easily one of the hardest to break pokemon in the tier and is devastating to many nu teams. I believe suspect testing would be in order.

[Michael91]

I also agree that Tangela is a problem. It walls pretty much every physical attacker in the tier, but if you switch in a counter to it, it can usually disable it with sleep powder. The major problem though, as emac mentioned, is regenerator; that thing just won't die. I think it's too strong for the NU tier, so I would favor a suspect discussion.

[Galblade]

I think Jynx should be resuspected. The main reasons why it wasnt banned last time (Munchlax, Metang etc) are not being used anymore since they've been replaced by the new drops (Licki and Steelix) who are both 10x better than the other 2 except for handling jynx.

[Luck>Skill]

I think Jynx should be resuspected. The main reasons why it wasnt banned last time (Munchlax, Metang etc) are not being used anymore since they've been replaced by the new drops (Licki and Steelix) who are both 10x better than the other 2 except for handling jynx.

I agree, even though it might be better to wait January, because of the new drops that might happen (even though I doubt anything that drops might help checking Jynx). Metang /fucking/ sucks, and I don't get why in the topic SleepTalk Metang was considered a legit counter...I mean...it sits there, and walls Jynx...that's all it does. Metang itself is pretty bad, especially considering there's Steelix in the tier.

[WizzleKidd]

Can we not forget that Jynx speed is 95 (which is still quite high) is outsped by many things and ohko'd by most any physical move.

[pokemonnerd]

We'll re-suspect Jynx next cycle, since enough people are complaining.

[fidgety]

with the Hail ban shouldn't we consider Retesting Rotom-F, Hail was a big part of that ban seeing as that gave it made Blizzard reliable giving it a way to have Bolt-Beam coverage without the Ice move missing 3 in every 10 uses.

[Luck>Skill]

with the Hail ban shouldn't we consider Retesting Rotom-F, Hail was a big part of that ban seeing as that gave it made Blizzard reliable giving it a way to have Bolt-Beam coverage without the Ice move missing 3 in every 10 uses.

Yeah, when we can get Lamperi to unban it, it will be free.

Rotom-F will be officially retested

[Avira]

Metang is not a bad Pokemon at all. Aside from taking on Jynx, it provides a useful normal/flying resist for use against the birds, and is a decent check to nonSpecs variants of Exegguttor. Jynx has terrible typing that sets it back both offensively and defensively, as well as horrible defense that makes switching in a bit harder for it. It really shouldn't be sweeping teams and with Snow Warning banned, it also loses power with it no longer being able to use Blizzard to good effect.

[Groudon Ramsay]

Metang is not a bad Pokemon at all. Aside from taking on Jynx, it provides a useful normal/flying resist for use against the birds, and is a decent check to nonSpecs variants of Exegguttor. Jynx has terrible typing that sets it back both offensively and defensively, as well as horrible defense that makes switching in a bit harder for it. It really shouldn't be sweeping teams and with Snow Warning banned, it also loses power with it no longer being able to use Blizzard to good effect.

????????

Jynx does not have bad offensive typing, in fact, it has amazing offensive typing. I support a second suspect thread (I still don't think its broken though).

[Avira]

????????

Jynx does not have bad offensive typing, in fact, it has amazing offensive typing. I support a second suspect thread (I still don't think its broken though).

I don't mean that Jynx has terrible offensive typing, just that it's typing in general is bad, which sets it back offensively and defensively. I'm sure that you agree that Mamoswine has superior offensive typing, with Ground hitting Steel/Ice/Fire/Water (The types that resist Ice) types for at least neutral damage, or that a theoretical Ice/Fighting typing for Jynx would be better than its current typing for offensive and defense utility.

[swampertman]

In a tier lacking Steel Types, Jynx's offensive typing is pretty good, so it doesn't really get set back by it.

[Hikari*]

This is NU, if you are expecting to see Pokemon with amazing stats, typing and movepool you are in the wrong tier. Jynx offensive typing is amazing for NU and Lovely Kiss + Nasty Plot + good speed, makes it a huge threat in the tier.