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[HGSS OU] Weavile got dis

Discussion in 'Rate My Team' started by DarkDiglett, Feb 1, 2012.

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  1. DarkDiglett

    DarkDiglett Parramatta 2014

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    Introduction


    I first started competitive pokemon when BW was about to come out, meaning i only experienced the active DPP metagame for little over a month, that wasn't really enough time to gain a good understanding of the DPP OU metagame, especially when i spent most of my time playing UU or NU. I have been trying on and off to create a decent DPP OU team, and while this team is nowhere near perfect, i feel it is the most successful one i have made and would appreciate all criticism as long as it helps fill the holes in this team, I peaked at 14th at 1280 points on PO ladder a few weeks ago, but have decayed since. so without rambling on any more, here we go.




    Team Building


    I have made quite a few unsuccessful DPP OU teams in the past so i wanted to base this one off something new, something i have never used before. After looking through the tier list, i decided to give weavile a chance to shine, and shine it did.

    [​IMG]

    I decided to use a more defensive team this time, so weavile would be my main offensive threat and late game sweeper, the next thing i needed was a good lead, preferably one who gets stealth rock, a necessity to any defensive based team, i tried metagross in this role for a while, but the team had some trouble with opposing skarmbliss cores, so now i needed something with rocks, is a good lead and beats skarmbliss, of course i chose infernape.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Now my team needed a solid defensive core, my team also needed a spiker, i didn't really want to use skarmbliss but i found forretress to be inferior to skarmory as a spiker, maybe i wasn't using it right, idk. So i reluctantly added skarmory and blissey to the team.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This was the point where i decided to turn this team into a lot more of a defensive varient, my team was weak to mixape and i needed a spinner, tentacruel was the perfect addition to this team, so i added another devensive poke to the bunch.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    The last role took me a while to fill, it was in the back of my mind i needed a spin blocker, because there is nothing worse than getting up a full field of hazards for them to be just spun away. But then again I needed a little bit of additional offense within the team, i tried gengar but it couldn't really spinblock forretress to well with payback running around, i eventually settled on rotom-H.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    So there we have it, the team that i feel is pretty decent, but at the same time could use a bit of work.
    [/HIDE]




    The Team At A Glance​


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]





    A Closer Look




    [​IMG]
    Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 80 Atk / 176 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    [​IMG] - Stealth Rock
    [​IMG] - Fire Blast
    [​IMG] - Close Combat
    [​IMG] - Fake Out

    Current Role ~ The lead, does its job very well as it matches up well with most other leads, fake out breakes azelf and other sashed leads focus sash, it is also how i deal with weakened scarf flygon as it is the only priority on this team which is something that could need to be addressed, stealth rocks is a must for this team, infernape usually gets them up with ease sue to its fast speed, close combat and fire blast are to beat skarmbliss, as well as beating other leads such as metagross, or scaring them out so i get up free rocks. Focus sash is obvious item as with wish support i can come in late game and still have it activated unless of course it's been broken previously.

    Possible Changes ~ Run a scarfed or LO set with U-turn over fake out, as it outspeeds scarfgon, could add hp ice over fake out if needed. Could also change the EV spread a bit.




    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    [​IMG] - Surf
    [​IMG] - Toxic Spikes
    [​IMG] - Rapid Spin
    [​IMG] - Ice Beam

    Current Role ~ The spinner of the team, gets rid of those pesky hazards that can ruin the late game weavile sweep, I went for a somewhat mixed defensive varient so it can switch into opposing infernape and scizor better, while still giving it some special bulk. The moves are simple, rapid spin for removing hazards, toxic spikes are an amazing move the can cripple certain pokes such as non cleric blissey. Surf is just the standard STAB move that has decent coverage, i went for ice beam over knock off because dragonite could just set up on tenta otherwise and proceed to wreck havoc on the team.

    Possible Changes ~ Make it an even more defensive varient so it can come in on ape and scizor even easier, change ice beam to something more situational.




    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    [​IMG] - Spikes
    [​IMG] - Whirlwind
    [​IMG] - Brave Bird
    [​IMG] - Roost

    Current Role ~ Could this be any more standard? :/ it does its job well enough though, switch in on a physical attacker, get up a free layer of spikes as they switch out, with this poke being so common and predictable, it's surprising how many teams are walled by it. moves are simple, whirlwind to phaze the likes of gyarados and other set up sweepers, roost is for recovery, spikes is for hazard stacking and brave bird is an attacking move to scare out breloom.

    Possible changes ~ I guess i could changethe EV spread to make a more specially defensive varient, i could use taunt but that means to attacking move.




    [​IMG]

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    [​IMG] - Wish
    [​IMG] - Protect
    [​IMG] - Seismic Toss
    [​IMG] - Heal Bell

    Current Role ~ Standard special wall, takes hits like a champ, went for the wish + protect version rather than softboiled for 2 reasons, 1st is because the teammates do need wish support, 2nd is because with all the explosion heatrans around, it's always nice to be able to predict the boom with a protect. Heal bell it so obviously heal teammates because, well it helps them live longer and seismic toss is for a damaging move, because i have not having a damaging move on a poke incase it is my last and i can't do anything.

    Possible Changes ~ I'm happy with the moveset, i guess i could tweak the EV spread a bit.




    [​IMG]
    Rotom-H @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    [​IMG] - Overheat
    [​IMG] - Thunderbolt
    [​IMG] - Shadow Ball
    [​IMG] - Will-O-Wisp

    Current Role ~ Block dat rapid spin. I went for a more offensive rotom-H because i felt that this team lacked a special attacking pokemon who actually hits somewhat hard. With blisseys wish support it can live for a while, shadow ball and thunderbolt are STAB moves that hit a lot of pokemon, especially opposing defensive rotoms while overheat is its signature move and kills things like breloom and metagross, will-o-wisp is to cripple pokemon such as DD Dragonite who would otherwise set up on a -2 rotom-H

    Possible Changes ~ Use a more bulky spread with rest over something as i have a cleric, use a different rotom form i guess, but overheat is nice to have.




    [​IMG]
    Weavile (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    [​IMG] - Swords Dance
    [​IMG] - Ice Punch
    [​IMG] - Night Slash
    [​IMG] - Brick Break

    Current Role ~ Late game sweeper, SD LO weavile is a boss, it gets great coverage with STAB ice punch and night slash, along with brick break for ttar and heatran among other steels. This is the pokemon that really brings this team together, as the aim of this team is to weaken opposing walls with hazards and chipping away at their HP, then once they are weak enough sweep with weavile. Life orb could be changed but it makes sure that weavile does enough to kill certain things. Jolly over adamant because it outspeeds +1 164 speed EV kingdra

    Possible Changes ~ i guess i could use a CB set with ice shard>swords dance but i'm happy as it is.




    In Closing


    This team is my most successful DPP OU team yet, but i am the first one to admit it isn't solid. The reason i posted this RMT is so i could get constructive criticism and to help me fill in the holes within this team. This team seems to have most threats covered, except for the 2 things i have noticed that can destroy it; SD lucario and DD taunt gyarados, i can usually kill lucario if infernape if at high health, but gyarados is either rotom lives a waterfall, or i lose. Thanks for reading this RMT and please rate it, use it and improve it!




    A Final Look


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]




    Importable

    Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 80 Atk / 176 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Close Combat
    - Fake Out

    Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Beam

    Weavile (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Ice Punch
    - Night Slash
    - Brick Break

    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Seismic Toss
    - Heal Bell

    Rotom-H @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Overheat
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp[/HIDE]
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  2. fidgety

    fidgety Active Member

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    this team is plagued by SD luke with crunch, it comes in on fat pink blob (who doesn't need any spedcial defense investment BTW just move it into physical defense), SDs as bliss shits itself and runs for Skarm, then 1-2hkos the entire team, Tenta is the only thing that can do any real damage without a couple Def drops. here are some calcs to show how bad it is:

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Lucario (Neutral) Crunch vs 252HP/120Def Tentacruel (Neutral): 66% - 78% (243 - 286 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    0SpAtk Tentacruel (Neutral) Surf vs 4HP/0SpDef Lucario (Neutral): 40% - 47% (114 - 135 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252Atk Life Orb +2 Lucario (Neutral) ExtremeSpeed vs 0HP/0Def Weavile (Neutral): 102% - 120% (287 - 338 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252Atk Life Orb +2 Lucario (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Skarmory (+Def): 76% - 90% (256 - 303 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.[/HIDE]

    the best solution is to find space for something like Britscor on the team who destroys any non-Ice Punch Luke, and/or making Rotom Scarf.

    Edit: now that i've got some free time i will do a more formal rate:

    LO heatran could be a headache seeing as it can more or less 1HKO anything other than Tenta who is 2HKOd by EP anything on this team, is able to come in on Skarm and Rotom (it loves overheat), and the only way to beat it is to use blissey to bait explosion and have rotom absorb it or weavile revengekill, not unbeatable, but you need to watch for it. Do not count on Ape being around that is a suicide lead set, so for things like this it will be ignored due to the simple fact that 8 times out of 10 it won't be around. TarGarZone Cores (which are very good just the ladder is dead enough it is hard to find people actually remembering those kind of things) could give this team issues as well, they pick apart your core and hit everything hard the only thing that can threaten these cores is weave and it can't come in at all and even then if Gar has the sub up 70% chance Weave is dead, however to fix this you almost need to reconstruct your team as this is just that core doing what it was built to do, pull apart skarmpiss, among other stall cores, this is another place where Scarfrotom could help though is fears Tar like the devil. DDnite is another BLob craps itself, DD, Fire move for Skarm, then outrage the shit out of the rest of the team again Scarfrotom (HP Ice over Shadow ball) would be a possible stop though it would need a timid nature. Chesto-Rest Kingdra could also be an issue if it is last Poke as it DDs until it is low, rest back to full, then just demolishes anything stupid enough to so much as look at it, most teams with it will have a spinner to keep Hazards from causing it to stop setting up early, this would be further reason for scarf-Rotom as once you identify it you identify it a Chesto-Rest you can force it to go onto the offensive prematurely with trick this would buy some time for skarm to chip it down even if you don't get the trick off.

    this is a nice team that just has a few big holes that are fairly easily patched once found.

    I'll edit in more later.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  3. champagne papi

    champagne papi if young tokyo tom don't trust you...

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    Hey there,

    This is quite a nice team, or a royal pain, depending on how you see it (damn these kind of teams are SO goddam annoying if played well). First thing I see is that, well, Weavile isn't used correctly on your team in my opinion. It won't really help your team as it dies SO FAST, and trust me, I tried this kind of team, and I think that you should put Pursuit instead of Swords Dance on your Weavile. Reason is, Weavile should be powerful enough to sweep through teams you've weakened enough with your hazards and stuff, and Pursuit will allow you to screw around ennemy spinblockers, mostly Rotom-A and Gengar, and the latter could be annoying for this team. It can beat pretty much every member of this team behind a Substitute, because Blissey can't do anything to it, and it will be a long and boring battle. Weavile can then come and trap it with Pursuit, just don't get predicted or else it'll hurt. Another thing you could consider when it comes to deal with Gengar is putting Ice Beam or Flamethrower on Blissey. Both are kinda useful since they can break Gengar's subs which will scare it most of the time, and can heavily damage Scizor and Dragonite, two incredible threats in DPP. You could either sac Seismic Toss or Wish+Protect for Softboiled+Special Attack, but at this point it comes to personnal preference. I personnaly (how do you spell this shit?) think that you should keep Seismic Toss as the other moves will be laughably weak against anything with respectable HP/SpD or that isn't x4 weak.

    I really don't like Infernape on this team, as it's extremely fragile and a stall team as yours can't really afford suicide leads, mainly because you need that extra synergy between team members to beat stupidly powerful stuff like SD Lucario that clips through the entire meta. I think that Hippowdon would be better suited for this team, and while it's kinda "mainstream" to have an Hippowdon lead on a SkarmBliss stall team, it does its job very well. Hippo will allow you to have a reliable check to SD Luke, as there isn't anything else on this team really to handle such a powerful physical Fighting monster. Rotom is cool yes, but it's actually outsped by Adamant 252 Spe Luke, which is the most popular variant. Hippo also sets up rocks and punishes Life Orb users with Sand Stream. Still your choice there.

    Finally I think that a more defensive approach to Rotom-A could mean excellent news to your team, as you said it was weak to DD Taunt Gyarados, Rotom allows you to pummel that bitch with Thunderbolt as you survive the Waterfall. I think that your current rotom variant doesn't help the team as much as the defensive variant can, as that way you can check stuff like Gyarados more easily, and it allows you to take on spinners like Starmie a whole lot better. Be careful with Starmie though, because the offensive spinner will wreck the shitout of Rotom, and Weavile/Blissey could be better switch-ins for it (Weavile won't like taking Hydro in the face).

    Here is a summary and sets of what I suggest.
    Weavile: SD<Pursuit

    Infernape -> Hippowdon (standard lead set, 252 HP 252 def 4 SpD, SR - EQ - Roar - Slack Off (sometimes I like to use Crunch instead of Roar for Azelf), Lefties Impish.)

    Rotom-W -> Defensive set.
    [/HIDE]
    Good luck!
     
  4. fidgety

    fidgety Active Member

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    @jirachee would have liked to have replied sooner but have been busy, Scarf Rotom-H for this team helps more than your defensive rotom-W, You get DD-Dos heck you do it more efficiently due to the fact that you don't have to worry about a boosted Waterfall flinching, on top of everything else i pointed out plus this team needs more offensive presence than it can provide (this is a balance centric team not a Stall centric one). Making Weavile Band would actually hurt this team due to the fact that a setup sweeper will almost always mop up them mess late game better than a Choice poke. Finally outside of a more durable SR poke and and additional phazer (unneeded as Skarm can Phaze and Skarmpiss alone causes plenty of switches) what does Hippo do for this team, lets see compromises the duablility for everything else bar Skarm (consequently furthering the pressure on bliss to get those wishes off), it lowers the offensive presence of the team (see rotom), and that isn't even the standard spread BTW the standard has 104 SDef EVs.
     
  5. DarkDiglett

    DarkDiglett Parramatta 2014

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    Thanks for the comments and sorry for the late reply as I was away for a week, i will try all of these suggestions, I am leaning towards scarf rotom-H as it does revenge most of the main threats to this team, namely lucario who is a real pain, i will also try hippo and defensive rotom-W and let you know how they go. I do like ape though as it beats opposing skarmbliss cores which are a real pain to play against, i do see how hippo would help though. I'll edit this post with how everything went. Thanks again for the comments
     
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