Guest, PO has ceased our separate tiering and adopted Smogon tiers for SM. More information and updates here.
Discussion in 'Rate My Team' started by Halsey, May 16, 2012.
Added the LC threat list.
Updated this thread, again.
Tell me if I missed anything.
Kyurem-B in OU
Sawsbuck in NU (not sure since retest).
Medicham has been in LU for a few months and it's still not listed in the LU threatlist.
Same goes for Tangela in NU.
Dugtrio is still listed under NU despite being OU now
Scraggy is now banned from Wifi LC so that can be taken out and for some reason Sawsbuck is under the LC threat list lol.
Remove Scraggy and fixed Sawsbuck. I should stop doing crap at 3 am!
Dusknoir should be removed from the NU treat list as it is now LU.
edit: Also had an idea that Pokemon in the treat list should have links to their analysis's on the wiki, as it will make it easier to help players who read the threat lists?
Done, also removed rufflet from LC.
Lol ? Where are [email protected] in the Wifi Ubers Threat list ? Add them please :)
Froslass is banned from UU.
Toxicroak is OU now. Houndoom and Zoroark rose to UU. Tornadus is now LU as is Durant.
Golurk is now LU. Bisharp, Crustle and Bouffalant fell to NU.
Probs missed out some too.
Metagross went OU, from UU.
Updated. Let me know If I missed anything.
Amoongus should be added to the Wifi OU Threat Lists.
It is common on stall, specifically part of bulkier FWG cores, and works as one of the elite OU sleepers, water resists, and bulky pivots. (Thanks to regenerator, spore, and its typing.)
Roserade is also viable in OU, and is a threat,as it can use spikes, as a lead, or a wall. Also, has top-notch special attacking capabilities. Adding Roserade seems logical.
Azumarill can be mentioned, too. It has one of, if not the most, powerful attack, in OU. (Unboosted, of course.) With Choice Banded, Rain Boosted, Huge Power, MaxAdamant - Waterfall. It also has a decent coverage / support move pool, reliable mono water typing, and the ability to Wallbreak.
Also, adding Genesect to the Ubers threat list would be ideal, it is common. (MixedScarf is common, strong, and a big threat.)
Musharna to LU threat list. (Yes, it works in LU, too, not just NU. Just a little support required.)
Zangoosee for same reason as Musharna, on LU, but, unlike Musharna, it's a frail but, deadly sweeper. (Polar opposites.)
Well with the release of Custap, Gigalith is a threat in NU, albeit a rarely used pokemon. But I think it should be added. Also can a Wifi NEU tier be added? Willing to help if so. :D
Remove OU Genesect.
Remove OU Deoxys-D.
Remove OU Tornadus-T.
Add Houndoom NU.
Add Munchlax N(E)U.
Add Swellow NU.
Remove Poliwrath NU.
Add Reuniclus UU.
Add Blissey UU.
Crustle /should/ get a UU mention.
Acceglor /should/ get a UU mention.
Druddigon /should/ get a UU mention.
Add Gorebyss to NU.
Add Huntail to NU.
Add Gastrodon to NU.
Add Ludiocolo to NU.
Add Gastrodon to LU.
Add Mismagius to LU.
Kabutops should be added to the Wifi Ubers Threat List. Quilfish is another viable user of Swift Swim in the tier, but is debatable as a threat.
The LC list needs updating, Mienfoo and Murkrow are gone, while Yanma and Carvanha are back.
Add Random Battle as a tier, please. (It still needs its own prefix) :P
Oh, and I compiled a threat list.
btw lack of Garchomp in OU list. Might wanna fix that.
In addition to what xdevo said about LC you need to add: Anorith, Crainidos, Likitung, Tediursa, Sandile, Solosis, Bulbasaur, Smoochum, Meowth, and Aipom. And there are probably others I missed.
Move Bisharp from NU to LU
then Houndoom to NU. (you might want to wait until the end of the suspect discussion before this, just in case)
I think we should move genesect, deoxys-d and tornadus-t out of OU
So I made some changes in this forum. Removed and renamed a bunch of threads' tags (prefixes), and added XY tiers' tags. You can find the list with all our current tags in the OP of this thread.
I'll update the thread lists myself today, because everyone else is fat and lazy.
Updated everything but BW2 NU, because ssased is afk.
Feel free to suggest stuff.
Again, feel free to suggest stuff. If there's any mistake, tell me.
NU threat list could use Huntail.
It is a very minor threat and Gorebyss is used more, but still is technically a threat.
Otherwise, everything is listed. Well done
In the OP the HGSS Ubers sends to OU, and the HGSS OU sends to Ubers. Great thread!
What does Huntail have over Gorebyss? Legit question, last time I used that thing was in ADV NU so yeah.
Huntail has more physical attack than Gorebyss (104>84), but still the ability to be mixed (based 94 SAtk with HP Grass and Ice Beam).
Also, it isn't weak to Ground, 4x weak to grass, or as slow as Carracosta (so, it outpaces Swellow, Modest (not sure about timid) Scarf Mesprit/Gardevoir, etc.)
In my opinion, it has a small niche as a smasher in NU, but that niche is so small that it would be understandable for it to not get listed
In addition, Rotom-N should get a mention in UU (Specs is pretty good, I use it as a blocker sometimes and it is kind of anti-meta with a decent niche. Also, scarf is viable because it has fast volt switch, fighting immunity, trick, etc.
Sawk in LU should be added, too. CB and Ebelt with Taunt are pretty cool and function well.
That's enough mindless nitpicking for now.
Huntail really isn't worth a mention imo, it does nothing better than Gorebyss, It's physical attacking options are horribly weaker than it's Special counter parts (e.g. Waterfall base 80 Vs. Hydro Pump base 120) and Physical behemoths like Alomomola and and Tangela are a common sight in NU, so it really doesn't have any niche at all.
And Carracosta is a better Physical Shell Smasher due to it getting STAB Stone Edge + Aqua Jet, and Solid Rock/Sturdy to increase it's set up opportunities.
I've made a prelim XY UU threat list. I'll add the sprites and such later if need be.
Thanks Xdevo! Updated the list with XY UU. If anyone could get around to make a XY OU list I will be much appreciative.
I'll add the sprites later when I'm not lazy.
I've made the OU prelim list, hope it's right.
Oh, I also made a preliminary list for XY Ubers: http://pastebin.com/VvY92XjR
I made these lists observing the PO's usage statistics and the relevance of each Pokémon in the Tier :)
EDIT: I edited my uber list with the tips that Fixed had posted.
Nice job making the lists! Some comments on the Ubers list:
Arceus-Electric should definitely be added, it is a very threatening sweeper. All the other offensive threats seem to be there, good job. Some more defensive Pokemon could possibly be added, I could find Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Clefable, Ammoonguss. You might also want to add more Arceus formes, support Grass and Water are pretty popular among good players.
Pokemon I don't think deserve to be on this list:
Charizard (both formes), Garchomp, Mew, Rotom-W, Talonflame and Venusaur are hardly, if ever, used in serious Ubers teams. They have high usage because they are common among weaker players, and they also feature often on "oops I didn't know Lucarionite was banned" teams. Deoxys-N and Deoxys-D are outclassed by the Speed and Attack formes. They are also hardly ever used.
Pokemon I'm not sure about are Cloyster, Espeon, Forretress, Klefki, Shedinja and Xatu. Each of them has some niche and can be used successfully, but they are not common and only work well on very specific teams.
I added the pokes more for their usage, but I'll go ahead with your hints and change the list.
Btw, I was (and I'm) really surprised how Charizard has 10.21% of usage in ubers (more than things like Lugia, Groudon, Dialga and Giratina), and Talonflame has 4.32% (more than Chansey, Blissey or Giratina-O).
Btw, I edited my list with the tips that Fixed posted above, and thanks for the feedback! :)
I don't ubers so just disregard this if I'm talking bullshit:
Firstly I feel that ALL Arceus formes should be included, as all of them have usable niches in the tier. For example, Arceus-Steel and Arceus-Poison can both check Xerneas reasonably well, especially Arceus-Poison as it can a potent CM set now that poison is buffed. If you choose not to include them, then perhaps we should take Arceus-Grass out since it gets trapped by MGengar easily and can't touch it at all.
I'll write a more detailed post later for both ou and ubers.
Arc Grass is really good . Every mon gets trapped or checked by some other mon; does not make it less viable. Arc grass can check Groudon ,Kyogre ,zekrom and palkia (first four which came to mind)
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Arceus-Grass: 182-216 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Zekrom Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 186-220 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
It resists all other common attacks of those mons . Pretty viable
EDIT: Checking Groudon is shaky if it runs fire punch ... offensive ones atleast
252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass in Sun: 256-302 (57.6 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO .... can still burn because faster but w/e 15% chance to fail
But yeah support don dies
Grass Arc is good ; Electriceus is god though js
Thanks for the list btw ,There are some mons on that list I never used. So I'll sure as hell have fun messing with them n_n
Idk, being set up fodder for MGengar ruins Arceus-Grass pretty badly. Would Bisharp work in Ubers as well? Considering that there are many defog users in the tier, Bisharp can take advantage of that and grab a Defiant boost. Sure Arceus and Giratina can burn it after Defogging, Bisharp can always equip itself with a Lum Berry and sweep or do massive amounts of damage with its +2 Attack. I tested Bronzong at the start of XY Ubers, and it is an amazing counter to Xerneas. I run a Stealth Rock/Toxic/Protect/Gyro Ball set, and its main priority is to set up Stealth Rock and toxic stall any walls if necessary, and Gyro Ball does a chunk out of Xerneas in general. Bronzong isn't limited to beating Xerneas, it can also counter any Groudon lacking a fire-move and proceed to throw a Toxic at it. Should Abomasnow also be included in the ubers threatlist? Considering that Hippowdon is also included, but Abomasnow has a Mega Evolution that it can actually use. Gastrodon should also be included for the sole purpose of countering Kyogre and being significantly safer to use unlike the gimmicky Shedinja.
Stuff that definitely should be placed inside:
Abomasnow for the same reason in XY OU.
Keldeo also for its fearsome wallbreaking powers.
Tornadus-I/T, both are really good specs users and Tornadus-T can also function as a great Assault Vest user.
Stuff that I'm iffy about:
Slowking, AV Slowking is a really great special wall and has regenerator to regain its health back.
Starmie, while it now has more trouble with the new ghosts, this does not change the fact that its still a great spinner.
Rotom-H, easily one if not the best Genesect counter, since it isn't weak to hp ground like Heatran and also only loses 25% of its health by SR, while Volcarona takes 50%. Also has solid defenses and has access to Volt Switch.
Zygarde, while it seems outclassed as a DD user by Dragonite, it does have sufficient defenses and has an arguably better speed tier, as well as a STAB EQ to play with. Access to Coil gives it another niche as a boosting tank.
Kyurem-N can also be given a chance, but I can see why Kyurem shouldn't be in OU, considering Kyurem-B outclasses it as a physical wallbreaker and its special sets are outclassed by Latios. That being said, it still has STAB Ice-beam to get past Fairies bar MMawile and Azumarill, the former doesn't take a Earth Power too well.
Also you put Vaporeon twice on the OU list :p
I'll update the list when the list is updated with the changes and more people speak up if any changes need to be made. I'm definitely missing out a lot of stuff, so just post it in the thread and we will discuss!
ok . I get it. you really don't ubers .
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 188-222 (55.6 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 187-221 (55.3 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 306-362 (77.6 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Any decent geomancy set xerneas runs 200Def or similar HP . Max max spreads are stupid and the speed is [email protected] : Lool (EDIT: pg runs non mega aboma , cant diss it :( )
How does Bronzong counter Xerneas ? It cant switch in and even if it comes after you sack something , it cant really ohko and dies in return ,Unless you run adamant Max Bronzong then you have an 18.8% chance to win against a standard 200/252/56 spread. Also Mega Gengar sets up on Grass arc? Does it use CM? Nasty Plot?Substitute?Resisted Judgement breaks subs. A Grass arc does a lot back to megar , without much investment. end . ok. And Bisharp , I remember vsing you; I defogged right in Bisharp's face and you didnt even ko back my defogger and I killed it anyway . Bronzong does have a niche , but it is clearly not checking xerneas , add the bell idc . Sets up TR and explodes really well though and some other roles .Also you just rendered you own argument invalid as bronzong gets trapped and killed by Mega Gengar too. Was just trying to help , making the list seem legit , if it is going to be bs'd by adding random jokes like Bisharp then I'll make my own list if you dont want me in.
Also the rest of it ( what wasn't @Perry) was hard to read ,baseless flame bait,uninformative, borderline trollish . Sorry.
Edit: Gastrodon does have it's niche , so does quagsire , only there is a new mon whch can check ekiller and such , and does much more than quag and does a lot to ogre anyway
But adding them makes more sense than Bisharp imo.
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