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[BW2] Sand Stream-less Metagame

Discussion in 'Gen 5 UU' started by Halsey, May 24, 2012.

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  1. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    So everyone knows the Sand situation. After reading the thread and discussing with some people, I came to the conclusion that there are too many ways (Banning Hippowdon, banning Stoutland, banning Sand Veil, etc). So I'm going to take a controversial decision (Some people will bitch about this, feel free to do it in a no idiotic way): Banning Sand Stream for a test period.

    The test ban will go for one month. After this a voting will be held, it is probably going to be similar to Venomoth's one, and Sand Stream's tiering will be decided with that.

    Also since this is going to be a pretty big change the ladder is going to be reset, to have more accurate rankings by the end of the test ban, so we can have a vote with only the people who have played the Sand Stream less metagame.
     
  2. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    I like this idea, a sand-less metagame in UU sounds fun already. But as you mentioned, while I am personally fine with this, some people might disagree on the controversial reasoning behind the test-ban.

    Regarding Sand Stream, will Sand Force Hippowdon still be allowed in UU, or will that and Hippopotas be BL during the test-ban?
     
  3. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Hippowdon and Hippopotas are still allowed with Sand Force, only the ability Sand Stream was banned. Although I really doubt someone is going to use Hippopotas in UU...

    Also more people are complaining about the ladder reset than about the ban, which is kinda sad.
     
  4. Orcelot

    Orcelot AKA Angelus

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    This is great. If nothing else comes of this, I can at least enjoy playing UU without having to worry about Sand for a bit.
     
  5. WizzleKidd

    WizzleKidd Wizzlin' PO since Feb '11

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    ..And does this mean the ladder will just be reset again once this test is over.
     
  6. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    There are no reasons for that.
     
  7. DSM01

    DSM01 Jammin' out

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    I've been away from UU for a couple months but now that sand is gone I'm seriously considering playing again. If only we could bring Alakazam back...
     
  8. Groudon Ramsay

    Groudon Ramsay Active Member

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    this was enough to make me wanna come back which should speak a lot to how shitty sand makes the meta

    i've done like 10 matches so far and i gotta say i enjoy this uu a hell of a lot more than i enjoy smogon's

    i'll post the team im using once i get the kinks out but so far it works like a charm
     
  9. Ash of Pallet Town!

    Ash of Pallet Town! New Member

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    Well this is retarded, I don't mind the testing period, even if it's a month long, but resetting the ladder was a dick move.

    Oh, and the least you could do is put up the table of the top 20 or 40 UU players before the ladder reset in your post.
     
  10. Machineae

    Machineae ex NU leader

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    Who the hell cares about the ladder. Its goddamn easy to get a good rank. Its been a while anyways.
     
  11. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    You seem quite upset about points that are extremely easy to win back, ash.
     
  12. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    This was exactly what I meant with idiotic complains.

    If you read my post you would know why the ladder was reset. I don't care about your meaningless ladder points, I care about the tier, simple as that.

    Your post is getting infracted, but not deleted so everyone can see your egoistic and childish mentality.
     
  13. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Looking forward to a much more fun meta without sand!

    out of interest, does this pass on to LU in the same way other bans do (e.g. Snow Warning)? ie is sand stream effectively banned there also.
     
  14. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    lu is gonna hate us when stoutland drops
     
  15. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    If sand is banned, Stoutland would be pretty useless.

    If sand isn't banned, Stoutland would easily rise back to UU before the changes, especially with its already high usage.
     
  16. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    i'm talking more about this particular month. does the test ban in place leave the ability banned in LU also?
     
  17. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    No. Any test bans that take place in UU(or OU) do not affect LU in any way. If however, Sand does get banned in UU, then it will by extension be banned in LU.
     
  18. Spruce Moose

    Spruce Moose Bad Player

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    After facing an onslaught of Sand teams in the past week, this change is really a breath of fresh, sand-free air. Kudos to BR for the test ban.
     
  19. Clarion

    Clarion Snow on the Sahara

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    Hippowdon and Hippopotas perhaps be BL--the way Snover and Abomasnow was placed after the Hail ban. Or, it's just that Snover and Abomasnow was banned because of their unreleased DW abilities? =/
     
  20. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Snow Warning is banned, Abomasnow and Snover aren't, but using them is impossible because they haven't been fully released.
     
  21. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    The latter, but when their DW abilities get released I'm sure they'll be playable in the lower tiers.
     
  22. evolutia

    evolutia Member

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    I'm happy that it's being tested, I will withhold my full opinions on Sand Storm until the test is completed however, I will admit that I'm curious to see what will spring up in a true non perm weather tier.
     
  23. Ash of Pallet Town!

    Ash of Pallet Town! New Member

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    I tried to call out a mod and got infracted again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2012
  24. Groudon Ramsay

    Groudon Ramsay Active Member

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    my post no longer makes sense fuck you br
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  25. iris

    iris Member

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    well the ladder did need resetting because i have qualified for every vote by just playing 1-2 games each session.
     
  26. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    i'm loling pretty hard.

    it's been a long time since the ladder was reset, and when major changes happen it's only fair.

    if you really care that much feel free to play smogon's UU where they still have roserade and kingdra, lol
     
  27. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    I haven't played this UU yet, I'm not a fan of sand (I tried using it, never had any particular success, nor I have ever had any problem with it), but maybe I can FINALLY start using Darmanitan, and LO...and scarfers...and Arcanine...and Cresselia...and a bunch of other things I couldn't use because of sand...
     
  28. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    This should be good. It also means we'll see less of Eviolite Gligar (not a complaint). I think this ban will stick - a lot of people were complaining that sand ruined the fun of UU. And I could see their point. It's going to be a huge change to UU, and it'll be interesting to see the results.

    About Stoutland: I don't think it will drop down to LU. Even without Sand Rush, it's still a powerful Pokemon. It can has Intimidate, and a Choice Band set can do a lot of damage late game.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  29. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    While CB Stoutland can still hit stuff pretty hard, the lack of the Sand Rush speed and a pretty mediocre movepool makes it completely outclassed by many other pokemon in the tier, even with Intimidate.
     
  30. Machineae

    Machineae ex NU leader

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    Gligar is still decent for helping deal with Heracross :P

    People won't use Stoutland though as its major boon was easy kills in sand, otherwise what makes it any different than other physical pokes that can use a CB and outperform Stoutland.
    Ps: STAB Normal sucks
     
  31. Platinum

    Platinum ~tilde~

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    With this, Arcanine will be so good again. Also, without Sand, Stoutland would be NU, lol.
     
  32. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I was wrong about Stoutland. I thought it got Earthquake, but it doesn't. So yeah, it will drop in usage. Depending on whether the ban gets lifted (I'm guessing that the vote will be to keep it, since there doesn't seem to be much grief it's over), Stoutland may end up falling into LU or maybe NU. A lot of people were speculating that Sandlash may end up in UU when Sand Rush gets released. If the ban on sand stream is permanent, that won't happen.
     
  33. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Yes without Sand Arcanine stops being trash, LO is a good item again, Scarfers like Darmanitan are better than what they were, fast and frail sweepers like Azelf become viable, defensive Torterra becomes usable (I always wanted to test this thing in UU...), Sunny Day and Rain Dance teams are much better now because you can't change their weather, etc

    I like this metagame.
     
  34. 114

    114 Guest

    Agreed. I liked arcanine.
     
  35. Groudon Ramsay

    Groudon Ramsay Active Member

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    rofl how does anyone not know stoutland doesn't get earthquake? if it did, sand would have been banned long ago.

    anyway, specially defensive arcanine with crunch does not counter specs chandelure--just thought i'd let you guys in on that bit on information that i came across today :(
     
  36. aedificabantur

    aedificabantur New Member

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    I think the biggest problem with sand was [1] Stoutland's ability to cleanly kill almost everything in 2 hits and [2] the fact that recoil-move users (like Arcanine or Darmanitan) or Life-Orb users had their durability cut down by the sand every turn.

    Other than that, sand wasn't a very big deal. Except for the Cradily that manages to grab a couple boosts and the annoying Sand Veil misses on Gilgar and Cacturne, nobody really STRONGLY benefited from sand in UU besides Stoutland, and nobody really was harmed by sand except for LO and recoil users.

    Like others have said, I think we will see the rise of Pokemon like LO Azelf and Arcanine again, which is a big plus. Azelf is a tiny frail Pokemon who surely appreciates as much HP as he can get, and Azelf really helps play a defining role in the metagame because it can do a lot of work once its counters are gone [Stoutland in the sand, being able to outspeed Azelf and Choice-Scarfed Nidoking, served as very appropriate and deadly checks to these Pokemon before].

    In a number of ways, Stoutland played the role of Machamp in Gen 4-- just hit something hard. And Stoutland's speed allowed it to get easy 2HKO's or come very close, at least [something Machamp has trouble doing with its slow speed]. No sand = No Stoutland = rise in a lot of other Pokemon whose effectiveness was dampened by sand.

    This change will definitely shake up the UU tier.
     
  37. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    It's interesting how people still think Stoutland can 2hko anything with an iota of defense...
     
  38. MasterVash

    MasterVash New Member

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    I predict this to end badly, in that at the end of a month, people are going to want sand gone simply because they feel it's more "fun" to play without, regardless of how centralizing or overpowered it is. I guess time will tell.
     
  39. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I would just like to say that Chandelure is quite the bitch without sand around. Probably not broken, but it could be suspect worthy.
     
  40. Orcelot

    Orcelot AKA Angelus

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    What do you mean without sand? I don't think the lack of sand makes that much difference considering it was one of the top threats against sand, it could check Stoutland locked into Return and nothing on the standard sand team likes switching into Specs Chandelure. But yes, I've thought Chandelure might be too much for a while now, it pretty much gives any team that lacks Trace Porygon2 or Snorlax major problems. I hate feeling like I need to use one of those two on almost all my teams so I don't get wrecked by Chandelure.
     
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