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[BW2] Potential NEU tier

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU' started by Aurist, Jun 17, 2012.

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  1. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    The channel for this can be found at #NEU on the server

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Recently there's been a lot of talk about smogon's unofficial tier, "PU", below NU. It seems to be fairly popular.

    Many of you who have been playing NU since the beginning or near the beginning will remember the time when a few users tried making the NEU tier. It was more for fun than anything, having a different, brand new meta to play with. It was never really gonna come alive as a real tier, partly because at the time NEU was not using usage stats, and partly because NU was still unstable.

    This is no longer true - NU is currently stable as hell, the biggest changes that ever happen to this tier any more is pokemon that have already been in the meta before dropping again. Nothing is broken or overpowered in NU currently either, I'm pretty sure everyone can agree on that.

    Following from that: I'd like to propose an unofficial NEU tier that people could play in. It would use usage stats, unlike the previous NEU tier. Potentially we could have a server room for discussion, depends on if this gets attention or not.

    If people would be interested in playing and testing this meta, please post in here.

    And for the sake of discussion, here's a large chunk of pokemon that would be in the NEU tier by current NU usage stats.

    Duosion, Marowak, Dodrio, Lapras, Ampharos, Audino, Metang, Probopass, Camerupt, Cacturne, Relicanth, Golbat, Muk, Bastiodon, Jumpluff, Serperior, Linoone, Mandibuzz, Tentacool, Simipour, Raichu, Cradily, Gigalith, Hypno, Glaceon, Simisear, Persian, Flareon, Throh, Crawdaunt, Electabuzz, Mr. Mime, Piloswine, Carracosta, Shelgon, Butterfree, Electrode, Pikachu, Grumpig, Dugtrio, Tropius, Raticate, Frillish, Machoke, Volbeat, Dragonair, Luxray, Lairon, Combusken, Magmar, Slaking, Fraxure, Arbok, Lampent, Meganium, Articuno, Banette, Mightyena, Togetic, Swanna, Kingler, Shiftry, Regigigas, Zweilous, Natu, Victreebel, Emolga, Basculin, Mawile, Beheeyem, Golduck, Zangoose, Beedrill, Seismitoad, Octillery, Murkrow, Masquerain, Stunfisk, Dunsparce, Mantine, Whiscash, Simisage

    Of course, there would be more potential pokemon - i stopped at 1% usage in NU.

    What do people say? Would you play this if it existed? Is this doomed to fail like the last time? Or, with the stability of NU, could this do better? Feel free to speak your mind no matter what the opinion is (within forum rules!)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  2. chippymunk

    chippymunk Bran-ed

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    I myself would certainly play this teir. It is a new challenge and gives those pokemon who are never used in their own teir a chance to shine.

    I approve this teir.

    (I suggest making a poll on this btw)
     
  3. WizzleKidd

    WizzleKidd Wizzlin' PO since Feb '11

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    I approved of NEU the last time it was brought up. But the problem is that unlike LU,UU,OU there are MANY pokemon that are still very viable that are under the 4% usage mark in NU. So possibly make the cut off for NEU like 3% or 2.5% or even 3.5% if anything.
     
  4. Xinc

    Xinc Time for Oras?

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    Approve
     
  5. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Could be interesting, but I worry that it's just going to be full of rubbish Pokemon, which will put people off playing there.
     
  6. Kumiho

    Kumiho Silhouettes

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    I would play this tier. Seems interesting.
     
  7. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    Screw banks closing, countries on the brink of bankruptcy and naked people chewing hobos' faces off. The fact that Mandibuzz has less than 4% usage in NU is a testament to how fucked up the world today is.
     
  8. Machineae

    Machineae ex NU leader

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    Lol'd at some of the pokes mentioned since a lot of em are great.
    Sure, I'll support this.
     
  9. topah

    topah Active Member

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    Sounds coo.
    Wonder who would get the most usage, etc.
     
  10. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    There's more, I just stopped because lazy. My point is, this tier better have a shit-ton of physical walls, since it's also got a shit-ton of physical attackers. Basically, yes, the very top of NU is 'stable', which only means that Emboar and Sawk aren't going down, but to make a tier under NU would require a lot of work. I don't know if a group of 10 people playing unofficially is really enough for that.

    Despite that, hell yeah I'd play. I play NU because it's the lowest main tier.
     
  11. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    The reason why we were against making this tier is simply because it's not needed. If we do it by usage, it's going to be unbalanced as all hell and if we do it by something as subjective as power it might as well be in Side Metagames. This has no reason exist as an actual tier in the first place; just play between your friends.

    Also you should read this thread. If I still had mods here I would have locked this already.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2012
  12. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    While NU will be played less due to another low-level tier competing with its playerbase, NEU will give the chance for the even weaker pokemon to be used. Even with the LU tier being added this generation, there are still too many pokemon imo that aren't getting the chance to be used competitively.

    Regarding pokemon with low-usage that would destroy the tier otherwise (like Ursaring, Carracosta, Slaking, etc.) - we can have people test the new tier temporarily to determine if it should be approved while at the same time choosing which pokemon are broken at the very start.

    Me and a group of other people have been testing out PU on our own server so we can make different bans then Smogon's according to our experiences, and here's the tier list that we have so far, as well as a list of battle logs for it: http://piratepad.net/RsEv4W6e93

    Some of the bans are debatable, but at least looking at the general idea of the tier and its banlist should at least give a headstart on a tier that should at least be tested on the PO server.

    I at least should've at least said "at least" a lot in that last sentence...
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2012
  13. Tyki

    Tyki Change

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    I do not approve, only due to how the pokes have been chosen.

    So many of those pokes will completely outclass some of the pokes, which will give them no use. This kinda takes away the point of the tier IMO. Tiers based only on usage statistics often lie to us (Latias in UU? come on now). A list that was carefully put together taking in consideration each and every pokemon usable feels much better. Kinda like this list http://piratepad.net/RsEv4W6e93 you beat me to this bsssssss

    Either way, more thought needs to be put into this.

    Edit: Ninja'd by Kyrk
     
  14. pokemon0078

    pokemon0078 Member

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    @the two above posters: Neither LU nor NU are really that active atm, nor are many other tiers, and there just isn't a point in it at all. Btw I GP'd spaces and crappy wording in a lazy manner on that list.
     
  15. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    this was mainly my point in saying i want to propose it as an unofficial tier. also, every tier is unbalanced as all hell when it starts. this really wouldn't be any different than when we created NU (except probably lower playerbase)

    and i'm glad to see the amount of support the idea is getting- i have created a channel at #NEU if people would like to join and stuff.

    i also really don't think that it will affect NU's playerbase like, even a bit.

    using a list would make it fail and ppl lose interest WAY quicker. i also proposed usage stats being used because the last times people tried it with a list it got spat on by most people, so.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  16. Expert Belt Latios

    Expert Belt Latios Member

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  17. D-21

    D-21 Lurking

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    eh, I don't approve. I don't see why everyone wants to keep splitting tiers just so certain pokemon get used. If you really want to play with those pokemon (which is a smaller list), you have you channel, and play with them *Yes, you did say unofficial tier*, so I doubt it would be added.
     
  18. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    Lets not get our panties in a bunch. No one is proposing this as an official tier, and even if they were, NEU as a tier has a stronger claim to legitimacy than tiers such as Monocolour and the like. Just let the people who care about this keep their thread in an otherwise dead subforum, while you play the official tiers if you so please.
     
  19. Clarion

    Clarion Snow on the Sahara

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    Bandwagoning this one.

    Professor Oak: If this was allowed to exist, who is to say that it should stop there? What about NEEU, which will allow Mothim to step out of Butterfree's shadow? Or NEEEU, which will allow Dustox to shine? Or NEEEEU, which will end up with Dratini being banned for being stupidly overpowered?

    In light of that, Tier Leaders of NU should have some sort of a challenge that promotes the use of Pokemon below 3% or 4% of the usage in NU. Just suggesting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  20. Wavy

    Wavy prince of the sea Server Moderator Server Moderator

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    I get a headache whenever I think of this tier. Oak's bad arguments still frustrate me to this day. I think having it be a Side Metagames tier and basing it off of power would be just fine. Better than usage based, better than no tier at all. Unless we have an actual thing to fix up and make stable, it just won't be worth it.

    Either way, you've got my support.
     
  21. Nexus

    Nexus Legend Killer

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    Not approving. Already played this tier in some servers and it may be fun but ading a tier based on Usage Stats is pretty bad and the tier has lot of broken mons having played it extensively
     
  22. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    [​IMG]

    Reply to soren:

    Or we could stop ignoring the fact that no one here is suggesting this as an official tier and let the thread be for those interested in playing the "tier".

    Also, Oak's argument there is flawed, as the same logic could have been used when we had nothing but OU and there would be no tiers. Woop Dee Doo.

    Reply to Nexus:

    Because new tiers having broken mons is sooooooo uncommon. It's not as if every tier has tons of bans in the first weeks-months of it's existence. Oh wait....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
  23. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    That's why we test it first so we can choose which pokemon to ban. The reason why it was so unbalanced on Smogon is because they were still testing and didn't ban anything yet.

    The server I and several other people were testing PU with had implemented a pretty legitimate banlist (which I linked in an earlier comment,) which made the tier much more entertaining. We just need to give the NEU tier a chance on the PO server (whether official or unofficial,) even if it's a several week test, to see how everyone's experiences with it is.
     
  24. Nexus

    Nexus Legend Killer

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    And ban everything and your left with half the mons. The tier is small enough as it is
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
  25. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    Yeah, banning everything is pretty standard protocol when it comes to tiering. I'm certain that not only will we go into double digits as far as bans are concerned, but that there will be dozens of bans, if not for any other reason just to satisfy our bloodlust.

    Please try to base your arguments on logic and fact, rather than bullshit and opinions, because sometimes I fear for my own sanity when I read through posts that have this effect one me.
     
  26. Nexus

    Nexus Legend Killer

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    A) That's not funny
    B) I did base it around Broken mons and if you didn't read the broken mons are Slaking,Linoone,Dugtrio,Simipour,Seismitoad,Duosion,Zangoose,Marowak,Crawdaunt.
    C) The above pokemon have very few counters and unless banned they can walk through teams
    D) Banning them leaves you with No sweepers
     
  27. Machineae

    Machineae ex NU leader

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    Special Combusken strong, yes plz
     
  28. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    Still not taking my advice I see. You should not assume and CANNOT know if the pokemon you mention are going to be broken in a metagame that doesn't exist yet. Yes, some may be banned. Hell, even if they're all banned, there will still be sweepers and there will still be more than half of the pokemon that the tier initially consisted of will be in the tier, contrary to your claims. Just because something isn't used as a sweeper when something better is available doesn't mean it's not a sweeper and won't be used once it's no longer outclassed. Now stop making poor arguments based on assumption and logical fallacy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  29. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    You're implying that after those useful bans that there are no possible sweepers whatsoever, including (but not limited to) Combusken, Croconaw, Sneasel, Dragonair, Scraggy, Clamperl, Lampent, Raticate, etc. that have at least a small chance of being viable in this tier; while they may sound bad on paper, they all work well in PU. You should probably slow down on the thoerymoning and attempt to play the tier on other servers (or the NEU channel we have atm.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  30. Tyki

    Tyki Change

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    I think there are more broken mons than that...

    And a couple of others that bring more controversy than I already am bringing. Stop theorymoning and actually try out the tier. It isn't balanced, which is what the link Kyrk and I posted attempted to do.
     
  31. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    If you're referring to me with that I never claimed it to be balanced. I'm just responding to poor claims that it's so much more unbalanced than any other tier has been in it's infancy and therefore should not exist.
     
  32. Nexus

    Nexus Legend Killer

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    In a tier you never played but I did in another server so your yapping is all wrong. I don't want to argue with people like you any further
     
  33. Machineae

    Machineae ex NU leader

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    I like how you're the one who comes into every single thread, spouts dumb bullshit, gets shot down and whines about it.
     
  34. Hobbes2

    Hobbes2 Aren't I dead or something

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    lol

    PO NEU is completely different from PU because our nu ladder sucks as there are pokemon here that are not in PU. The pokemon you mentioned that you said were broken, some of them aren't even broken at all. Play PO NEU before you come on here and start saying bs.

    also, i support NEU.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  35. Tyki

    Tyki Change

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    We didn't now? How do you know?

    Also, I would support NEU once it gets its shit together.
     
  36. WizzleKidd

    WizzleKidd Wizzlin' PO since Feb '11

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    Nexus, NEU is already getting more people and right now we are just testing shit until the PO stats come back so it can develop and start suspects. All this theory is really not relevant to what's actually going on in the 'tier' right now.
     
  37. BaneRain

    BaneRain New Member

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    I approve of the tier, but it needs to be polished. Again, look at the list Kyrk and Tyki linked for reference. And we aren't talking out of our ass when it comes to the pokes banned in case there are any skeptics. We've been testing this list extensively with 30+ people for 2 months now.
     
  38. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    NEU is significantly different from PU, BaneRain, and also has more of a history than PU, jsyk.

    also this bitchiness is getting a bit much y'all lol

    http://piratepad.net/MNeYm2fUVp is the current link for more details about the tier, what we're testing, etc
     
  39. BaneRain

    BaneRain New Member

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    I'm looking at the tierlist you posted and it really isn't very different at all other than having some broken pokemon in it. Provide some concrete examples please.
     
  40. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    for a start, we haven't started with pokemon like Ursaring and Rampardos. additionally we aren't gonna ban stuff for the sake of it (yes sorry but some of your ban list is ridiculous and OTT). additionally our tier has a lot more history and users that have experienced the meta. also we're starting with the weather rocks allowed- most likely broken, but yes, it's being given a chance. also, yours has Kangaskhan, Muk, and ours has Cacturne, Duosion, Camerupt, among others. these are all significant differences. let's not forget that our NU metas are rather different, which leads to a different NEU(PU) meta.
     
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