Guest, PO has ceased our separate tiering and adopted Smogon tiers for SM. More information and updates here.
Discussion in 'Gen 5 Side Metagames' started by Aurist, Jun 20, 2012.
With NEU at the moment, I feel that Aurist and Roku should decide for themselves.
Wow, can't believe neu changed so much, spikes is broken? Tentacool can beat all spin blockers with toxic and there is a thing called taunt too, plus the fact there is like no good spiker in neu, while roselia is pretty fragile in physical side.
I'm not entirely sure where you get off as an authority on NEU here. Tentacool is literally the only thing that can spin without just outright dying in NEU and regardless of it beating the spinblockers it is easily outlasted by most of the spikers unless your opponent is an idiot. and "there's a thing called taunt"? woah none of us knew that! did you know that you can't expect perfect outprediction from every player ever when suspecting something? you can prevent more than one layer of spikes for now but Roselia (using your example) has enough bulk and attacking power to take on a majority of the things that can use taunt in NEU, and it can just switch out and come back in again! your assertion that there are no good spikers in NEU shows that you haven't read the rest of this thread more than skimming the last few posts over. As well as that, Roselia has enough bulk to be able to set up two layers of spikes on a majority of physical attackers - e.g. Crawdaunt does 67% - 79% with lefties crunch just as an example of Roselia's bulk (also LO Crunch only has a 20% chance to OHKO Roselia). Given how Roselia is also able to, y'know, just switch out and come in later too... yeah. I strongly advise you actually play the tier beyond two games in tournaments before you come in here acting superior about your opinion.
Honestly, I don't think we need to ban spikes as a whole. A lot of the spikers, other than Roselia, are very prone to being set-up on, or they have much fewer chances to switch in multiple times without getting KO'd or worn down. The only one with really reliable healing or stats is Roselia. I think we should at least test Roselia first, then see how the situation is. If spikes are still too powerful afterwards, then more drastic measures could be taken.
thank you for the post, xdevo. while Roselia is definitely the best spiker it's not the only one with a form of recovery - Shelmet has Recover, and Cacturne and Maractus have powerful STAB giga drains that aren't quite reliable recovery but still. I definitely see your point of view, and I think the best thing we can do right now is have a suspect thread that has multiple choices - people can offer their opinion on whether to ban [Roselia/something], spikes, nothing, etc. The thing about almost all the spikers in the tier is they easily outlast any spinners, and unless played around really amazingly will get at least two layers of spikes a game before dying. spikes stacking is incredibly powerful in NEU.
also, going by usage stats, unless major usage change happens we're going to lose Roselia and Cacturne next tier change but also gain Garbodor. worth taking into consideration
just ban spikes, 80% neu team i faced runs wall team, making the tier extremely boring and predictable
I'm up for a spikes suspect for reasons stated already
Separate names with a comma.