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[Final] Conkeldurr

Discussion in 'Gen 5 OU Analyses' started by Soma #ded, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Soma #ded

    Soma #ded Time for a SOMARAND!

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    [​IMG]On Wiki

    ==General==
    Conkeldurr is one of the better Pokémon that this new generation has brought to us; with its incredible Attack, STAB priority, almost unresisted coverage, impressive physical bulk, and terrifying ability to heal itself while dealing huge damage with boosted Drain Punches, it's truly a force to be reckoned with. However, it does have some notable weaknesses: it is very predictable, since a vast majority of players choose to run a Bulk Up set. Its low Speed can also cause problems when Mach Punch is ineffective, allowing the foe to deal a lot of damage, although Conkeldurr's physical bulk provides a helpful buffer. What sets it apart from other fighting types in OU is that Conkeldurr can utilize a STAB Mach Punch. This, combined with its extraordinary 140 base Attack, allows it to do severe damage to many fast but frail Pokémon which other Fighting-types tend to have trouble with.
    Conkeldurr's ability Guts is a godsend to it, nerfing burns that cripple most other physical attackers. Conkeldurr does have some problems with bulky Flying-types, such as Gyarados and Salamence, although Stone Edge and Ice Punch allows Conkeldurr to do good damage to them, this leaves it very open to Ghost- and Psychic-types. Even if it chooses to use Payback, Conkeldurr still has trouble hurting very bulky Psychic-types, such as Mew, Celebi, and Reuniclus. Despite these shortcomings, Conkeldurr continues to thrive due to its ability to not only check or counter many of the metagame's top offensive threats, but also its capability of sweeping if given a chance to set up.


    ==Bulk Up==
    Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Mach Punch
    - Drain Punch
    - Bulk Up
    - Payback/Stone Edge/Ice Punch


    Set Comments:
    Conkeldurr is arguably the best user of Bulk Up in the metagame; not only does it pack an absolutely massive 140 base attack, it also has impressive physical bulk, allowing it to set up on all but the strongest physical attackers and those carrying super effective attacks, with ease. As if that weren't enough, it gets not one, but two incredibly useful STAB moves in the form of Drain Punch and Mach Punch. The former allows it to recover health lost during set up turns and at the same time deal massive amounts of damage, while the latter allows it to bypass its poor Speed and KO faster foes before they have a chance to hit Conkeldurr. Payback allows it to deal with Ghost- and Psychic-types, and gives near perfect neutral coverage (resisted only by Heracross and Toxicroak). Stone Edge allows Conkeldurr to beat bulky Flying-types which would otherwise pose a problem to it, but using Stone Edge leaves you reliant on an 80% accuracy move and at the complete mercy of semi-bulky Ghost- and Psychic-types, such as Latias. Ice Punch is a direct counter to Gliscor, which can easily set up on Conkeldurr without it. It also can 1HKO a Multiscale Dragonite at +1. Conkeldurr has the option to choose between two very good abilities, Guts and Iron Fist. Guts allows Conkeldurr to not only absorb status, but actually become more powerful from it, although it may prove unreliable due to Conkeldurr's need to switch into a status move for it to activate. Iron Fist, on the other hand, proves to be more consistent, boosting both of Conkeldurr's STAB moves by 20%. However, it leaves Conkeldurr completely open to Burn, which typically renders it useless. Overall, Guts tends to be the better ability, as it lets Conkeldurr set up on bulky Ghost-types like Jellicent and Dusknoir, both of whom usually carry Will-O-Wisp or Scald.

    Checks and Counters
    Most of Conkeldurr's best counters are bulky Flying-, Psychic-, Poison-, or Ghost-types with the ability to hit it back hard. Gyarados and Salamence with Intimidate do well against Conkeldurr thanks to their resistance to Fighting and neutrality to Payback along with high Attack, and Salamence has access to powerful special moves, which hit Conkeldurr's weaker defensive side. However, if Conkeldurr is given a chance to Bulk Up, they will struggle to do enough damage before being KOed. Zapdos can defeat Conkeldurr comfortably using STAB Thunderbolt to hit its low Special Defense and not taking much from Fighting moves or Payback. Crobat gets a special mention due to being 4x resistant to Fighting, being fairly bulky, and having STAB Brave Bird or Hypnosis to fight back with. All of these will have trouble with Stone Edge variants, especially after a boost. Gliscor or Eviolite Gligar fair well enough; both resist its STAB, take almost nothing from its coverage moves unless Conkeldurr runs Ice Punch, and Gliscor can hit back with STAB super effective Aerial Ace. They can also use Toxic to poison it, but Toxic takes a while to do much damage, and after a few Bulk Ups, Conkeldurr won't take much from Aerial Ace. Haze Weezing, Special Nidoking or Nidoqueen, Sleep Powder Roserade, and Sleep Powder or Special Venusaur, can all take Fighting moves and hit back hard or put it to sleep. Slower, bulky Ghost-types, such as Dusknoir, Dusclops, and Cofagrigus can also be a nuisance if Conkeldurr lacks Guts to absorb Will-O-Wisp, as they are immune to Fighting moves and won't take too much from Payback due to their low Speed. Most bulky Psychic-types, like Celebi, Mew, Latios, Latias, Victini, Reuniclus and Slowbro do well against Conkeldurr, due to their resistance to its STAB, ability to do huge damage with Psychic moves, and bulk, which allows them to take Payback without too much of a problem, especially the latter two, due to their low speed halving Payback's power.
    Due to Conkeldurr's access to Mach Punch and the probability of at least one Bulk Up along with Conkeldurr's brilliant physical bulk and passable special bulk with the EV investment, it is a difficult Pokémon to check. Alakazam, Azelf, Espeon, and Starmie are able to take a boosted Mach Punch (only Alakazam is OHKOed even at +6 barring an item or ability boost) and OHKO in return with Psychic. Breloom and Roserade can both take a boosted Mach Punch and put Conkeldurr to sleep before it can do anything else. Wobbuffet also does fairly well at taking care of Conkeldurr. Being slower, it only takes half the normal damage from Payback, which means it can survive and use Counter. Most Phazers that can take a boosted Drain Punch, like Skarmory and Hippowdon are reasonable last ditch options against Conkeldurr. However, are not the best choice, as they will take a huge hit on the turn they phaze.

    Synergy
    Bulk Up Conkeldurr is not a Pokémon who requires support to do its job, but it does appreciate team synergy. More specifically, Pokémon that can lure others that it can set up on, such as Tyranitar and Ferrothorn. Good choices for this role are offensive Ghost- and Psychic-types, like Gengar and Starmie, both of which tend to lure out such Pokémon. Bulky Psychics can sponge up any Psychic type moves heading toward Conkeldurr, making them good switch-ins to counters.

    ==Orb Attacker==
    Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb/Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Mach Punch
    - Facade
    - Drain Punch
    - Payback/Ice Punch

    Set Comments:
    This set uses Conkeldurr's Guts ability and Orbs to constantly obtain the 1.5x boost it provides. This turns Conkeldurr into a revenge killer of sorts, as it can quickly switch in from a U-turn, recieve the burn/poison, and quickly finish off the attacker. With this set, Facade becomes a usable and dangerous move. The status effect boosts Facade's mediocre 70 base power to a whopping 140, while providing 100% accuracy. It also prevents Breloom from using Spore on Conkeldurr, which can shut it down for a good 5 turns on the Bulk Up set. Payback and Ice Punch are the best way to deal with Psychic types and Flying types respectively, while Mach Punch can quickly pick off a foe. Flame Orb and Toxic Orb serve the same function, but Flame Orb starts out doing more damage, but Toxic Orb does more damage than flame after 3 turns, so it is a matter of how long Conkeldurr will be out.

    Checks and Counters
    While Orb Conkeldurr gets a strong boost from the start, it is still not strong enough to deal with many of its normal counters. Pokemon such as Reiniclus and Dusclops still stall it till it dies, and the Lati twins can still KO with Psychic or Draco Meteor. However, the 1.5 attack boost allows Conkeldurr to stop previous threats with Mach Punch, such as Terrakion. Facade can quickly stop Gliscor, which would otherwise completely stall Conkeldurr out. Tornadus is one of the biggest threats, as it can KO in an instant with a 100% accurate in the rain Hurricane. Skarmory can wall this set just as easily as before, and Pokemon with Intimidate can bring Conkeldurr's attack down to a manageable power.

    Synergy
    Once again, Conkeldurr doesn't need support to perform his tasks, but counters to its counters are helpful. A pokemon such as Tyranitar can stop any Psychic and Flying attacks and counter with moves like Pursuit and Stone Edge.

    ==SubPuncher==
    Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts/ Iron Fist
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Mach Punch
    - Focus Punch
    - Payback/Stone Edge/Ice Punch

    Set Comments:
    Conkeldurr has the most powerful Focus Punch in the metagame. Its slow speed and good physical bulk allow it to safely set up a Substitute to prevent the foe from flinching it, and once a sub is up something is going to get hurt... badly. In fact, this monster's Focus Punch is so powerful that, after factoring in Stealth Rock and Leftovers, it 2HKOs 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Skarmory most of the time, dealing 48.5% - 57.5% (without even factoring Iron Fist). Mach Punch complements Focus Punch well, as the priority allows Conkeldurr to finish off low health opponents before they can touch him. Finally, the choice between Payback and Stone Edge is the choice between hurting Ghost- and Psychic-types, like Jellicent and Celebi, or hurting bulky Flying-types like Salamence. It's worth noting that when using this set, Iron Fist is the superior ability, as Substitute blocks status anyway and it greatly increases the power of both Focus Punch and Mach Punch.
    The given EV spread produces 101 HP Substitutes, which are unbreakable by a single Seismic Toss or Night Shade. This allows Conkeldurr to set up on Blissey/Chansey and bulky Ghosts such as Eviolite Dusclops that use Night Shade as their primary way of dealing damage. This is especially helpful on Guts variants of this Conkeldurr, as the aforementioned Pokémon might also try to status it before it can set up a Substitute. However, much like the Bulk Up set, there are various other ways of EVing this Conkeldurr. One of these is 212 HP / 116 Atk / 180 SpD with an Adamant nature, which guarantees Conkeldurr's Substitutes will not be broken by a single Scald coming from 4 SpA Jellicent and retains the ever-important 404 HP. This allows you to take the first Scald, set up a Substitute, KO Jellicent from behind the sub the following turn, and be ready to Focus Punch whatever they bring in. However, this comes at the cost of a lot of power, so it is only the best choice if your team has real problems with Jellicent. It's also worth noting that Jellicent's Scald has a 30% chance of burning Conkeldurr before it can set up, making Guts the better ability for this specific situation. However, in most cases, Conkeldurr will be setting up Substitutes in front of opponents who won't status it, while Substitute blocks further status, making Iron Fist the superior ability.

    Checks and Counters
    This set shares a lot of its checks and counters with the Bulk Up set. Bulky Flying-types, like Salamence and Gyarados, still do well against it if it doesn't carry Stone Edge, while bulky Ghost-types do well against it if it lacks Payback. Slower bulky Psychic-types like Reuniclus and Slowbro are always a full stop to any Conkeldurr due to resisting its STAB and taking only half the damage from Payback. Revenge killing this Conkeldurr with faster Pokémon is more difficult due to the Substitute up and the fact that very few Pokémon can take a Focus Punch followed by Mach Punch. Bulky phazers like Skarmory and Hippowdon can also deal with this set by phazing away Conkeldurr and its Substitute, but they will eat a Focus Punch before they can do so. Again, Gliscor can deal with Conkeldurr by using its STAB moves to break its Substitute and then proceeding to stall it out with Toxic. However, Gliscor must be careful not to Roost as Conkeldurr Focus Punches, because if they remove their resistance to Fighting, they are liable to take a tremendous hit.

    Synergy
    Although SubPunch Conkeldurr is perfectly capable of being an absolute monster in its own right, there are certain Pokémon it can be paired with to make its job easier. One beneficial partner to this set is Choice Specs Latios or Latias, as they are able to plow through many of the physical walls that hinder it, such as Hippowdon. In addition to this, Conkeldurr can set up a Substitute on the special walls who usually come in to take Latios' powerful Draco Meteors and deal huge damage, greatly easing Latios's or Latias's sweep. Choice Band Tyranitar is also an effective partner to Conkeldurr, resisting both of its weaknesses and being able to take on Reuniclus, as well as take out Flying-types with Stone Edge and Psychic- and Ghost-types with Crunch or Pursuit, allowing Conkeldurr to sweep much more easily.[/HIDE]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2012
  2. Soma #ded

    Soma #ded Time for a SOMARAND!

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    bump (please, I'm leaving sunday and want to see at least some QC)
     
  3. pokemon0078

    pokemon0078 Member

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    Ice Punch goes over Payback/Stone Edge. It just kind of outclasses them.
     
  4. Harlot

    Harlot i look like the pope

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    it isnt implemented on the simulator yet so it doesn't go in the analysis

    whenever it is implemented it can be changed
     
  5. Metta World Peace

    Metta World Peace Member

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    Conk doesn't get Ice Punch yet. I personally think CB merits a set, but you can wait for QC, etc. Why are you slashing Sheer Force on the Sub punch set if none of your moves get boosted? I would also take out Starmie from the checks and counters and add in stuff like Reuniclus and Slowbro.
     
  6. pokemon0078

    pokemon0078 Member

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    Conk had Ice Punch for over 12 hours when you posted, js. Japan time.
     
  7. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Yeah but it isn't actually on the simulator just yet, with the only build that it is on being buggy as all hell.

    I think we can just wait a bit with writing all the OU analyses currently in progress in general. We've got some huge changes coming up.
     
  8. pokemon0078

    pokemon0078 Member

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    Yeah pnerd. I'm going to have fix Chandelure's Choice sets with Trick, I know that.
     
  9. Soma #ded

    Soma #ded Time for a SOMARAND!

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    Well, I guess I did write this a bit early. I think I will wait until all the BW2 stuff becomes fully public and gain niches in the metagame. This might need a rewrite if something new like Genesect takes the meatagame by storm. I'll will put this on hiatus for a while.
     
  10. Fnatyc

    Fnatyc New Member

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    Bulky Gliscor may or may not wall conkeldurr any more depending on whether it runs ice punch..
    That said acrobat still destroys any conkeldurr if it comes in on another move.

    Drawbacks: In a similar fashion to volcarona/haxorus etc, it really needs a team built around it for most set-up sets (in particular bulk up), and definately isn't an all purpose add to most teams (like rotom-w or gengar)

    Counters and checks: Toxicroak in rain can boost along side conkeldurr (the other common bulk up user). Strong neutral special stab attacks, such as rotom-w hydro pump can ohko if conkeldurr has lost enough health
     
  11. Soma #ded

    Soma #ded Time for a SOMARAND!

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  12. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Iron Fist is released so the SubPuncher set should run that

    The rest seems good to me, approved

    Weee 1.5k posts[/HIDE]
     
  13. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    The wiki already has a pretty good, though quite outdated, Conkeldurr analysis here. Use the text from there as a base and update/add (and add the Orb attacker set) please (note that set specific synergy/C&C sections are fine, and in fact preferable when sets are quite different).
     
  14. Harlot

    Harlot i look like the pope

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    yep, approved
     
  15. Soma #ded

    Soma #ded Time for a SOMARAND!

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    Bump
    2/3 QC have approved, just one more!
     
  16. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Go ahead and upload this, we really only have 1 OU QC person now.
     
  17. Soma #ded

    Soma #ded Time for a SOMARAND!

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    It's up!
    I will need to add calcs to the final set, but other than that, it looks ready for BW2.
     
  18. thedoctor

    thedoctor New Member

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    (i am shocked i remembered my user name and password, been awhile)

    doesnt anyone ever make a sheer force conk, with his access to the element punches I feel it could be a good surprise viable set. I am thinking something among the lines of two of the element punches then mach punch and some other strong fighting move like hammer arm, or drain punch (if you want the health), or maybe superpower. I figure the element punches will give him unexpected coverage while hitting very hard thanks to then becoming base 99.75 combined with conks already ridiculously high attack stat. Plus since people will assume you are using guts i feel most people wont try to status you. I am not saying this is as good or better then the guts set, but i do feel it has a viable use and should be mentioned.

    Also as far as I know Iron fist has not been released yet, but when it is the set i proposed might be better with that ability assuming drain punch is the 4th move you choice.

    (also should be noted conk could also use rock slide in this set as well.)

    edit: just saw an earlier post which says iron fist is out, can anyone confirm b/c when i tried to look that up earlier i didnt see it listed
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  19. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Guts offers more power than either set, so that's why it's the main listed one. Though I can very much see the surprise value in a Sheer Force set, if you're using it with a Life Orb, people are gonna notice when you get recoil for Mach Punch / Insert other Fighting move here, and not for the Elemental punches. That'll give them plenty of incentive to burn your ass. *nods*
     
  20. thedoctor

    thedoctor New Member

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    what you wrote is completely true, but my only argument is that a sheer force set should be mentioned since it could be viable. and since none of the move sets on the wiki give him any other elemental punch besides ice punch as a suggestion I would say having a second elemental punch will definitely net you some nice surprise kills.