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[BW2] July and August NU Tier / Potential Suspects Discussion

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU' started by Gl4ss, Jul 1, 2012.

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  1. Gl4ss

    Gl4ss Just a little sarcastic

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    http://wiki.pokemon-online.eu/view/5th_Gen_Tier_List#Wifi_NU

    Wifi NU Tier Leaders: Luck>Skill, Gl4ss

    Tier Changes

    NU -> LU: Archeops

    LU -> NU: Quagsire, Whimsicott, Mesprit, Hippopotas, Escavalier

    Didn't lose much this time around, just the rarely seen Archeops, though his brutal acrobatics will be missed.

    We've gained a bunch of new toys, including a few NU veterans in Quagsire, Whimsicott and Hippopotas. Expect to rage endlessly while trying to break through Quagsire's titanic derpface disregard of your stat boosts and getting subseeded to death by the ever irritating prankster Whimsicott. The loss of Sand Stream has crippled Hippopotas somewhat, but it is still a servicable Stealth Rock setter with instant recovery.

    Escavalier is here and ready to terrorize NU with its ridiculously powerful Megahorn, which may or may not be boosted to even further heights by a Choice Band, while absorbing a hit or two with its very respectable bulk. In addition we gain the ever versatile and balanced Mesprit; with a diverse movepool that includes Stealth Rock, U-Turn, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Thunder Wave and many more, expect to see Mesprit running a multitude of sets from Support, Scarf, Calm Mind, and even Band

    This thread will also be used for future Suspect discussion, so feel free to post such concerns below as well but please NOT before the new additions to the tier have stabilized.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2012
  2. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    YES FINALLY MESPRIT DROPPED

    How could Escavalier drop

    Quagsire will be as annoying as ever, but at least it fits the meta quite well

    Hippopotas will be...weak
     
  3. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Droppers:
    Quagsire - I dont know why but I think this guy should be UU. (._.) I hate it but I'll be (hopefully) using this guy a lot.
    Whimsicott - I hate this one too. Prankster. >.<
    Mesprit - I have no idea with this guy but I'm ggoing to use this one if ever it falls down.
    Hippopotas - Roar,Stealth Rocks, Toxic, Earthquake. Standaaaard. It will be much weaker tho. :\
    Escavalier - This one will RAPE. :)
     
  4. WizzleKidd

    WizzleKidd Wizzlin' PO since Feb '11

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    F Whimsicott, all it does to me is waste many turns and time as I play around it. My Bouffalant will say hello to it.
    Don't really know what to say about Mesprit..
     
  5. Orcelot

    Orcelot AKA Angelus

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    Wow, I'm very suprised to see Escavalier in NU, it was top tier LU. I think Mespirit is going to fit in quite nicely, it has plenty of viable sets already mentioned in the OP but I think the support set with SR will be most popular since the tier has been lacking good bulky SR setters.
     
  6. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto if your world falls apart, i'd start a riot

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    Escavalier in NU??
    Mesprit Yeah!
     
  7. Machineae

    Machineae ex NU leader

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    ESCA WHAT THE FUCK
    I'm overjoyed because I'm going to abuse the shit out of him. Although with all those Emboars around I'm not sure how well this will go. They'll certainly keep him in check.
     
  8. SensitivePineapple

    SensitivePineapple Re Member

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    SO MUCH THEORYMON!

    FINALLY Another steel type in the tier!

    Its going to be one of the biggest threats in NU...Specially in a trick room team!

    Whimsicott!
    I love that thing. Sub seeding has never been so easy. Specially if you can just Hurricane everything that expects a leech seed :3. I used it on almost every team I had.

    QUAGSIRE!
    Do not care. Klinklang will though ( Unless sub toxic lol.)

    Mesprit
    It was kinda outclassed by Uxie in LU. Its going to be amazing in NU though! I can see the rise of weather/trick room in NU because of this thing (And support whimsi too! Maybe even the rise of Skuntanks!)

    Hippo is really bad...No wonder it dropped without Sand stream

    No Archeops anymore
    DO NOT CARE

    ...WAIT Gardevoir and Primeape are still LU but MESPRIT AND ESCAVALIER DROP???
     
  9. .WMV4

    .WMV4 pure evulz!!!!!

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    Aww, I'm going to miss using Archeops. Your absurdly strong Acrobatics will be missed.
    Escavalier in NU? I've used it in UU (a CB variant to be specific) and it was still dealing hilarious amounts of damage to almost everything that doesn't resist it with megahorn.
    Whimsicott and Quagsire are back, but I think the former will be here to stay. Bouffalant dropped, and it's going to give Whimsicott a headache.
    I could care less about Hippopotas.
     
  10. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Gardevoir isn't completely outclassed in LU like Mesprit is by Uxie and (ironically)Gardevoir. The fact that Nidoqueen dropped to LU means you're not getting Garde any time soon either. Don't know why people refuse to stop using Primeape, though.

    Escavalier dropping is pretty damn hilarious actually. At least we've got Rotom-S as an answer for it, plus it helps balance out Mesprit. And gives a direct answer to all those Psychic types everyone complains about. Might be suspected based on how much people can adapt to it, since we do have specific pokemon and plenty of ways to handle it down here. Or it might just be too bulky and hit too damn hard, not sure. Slow but powerful pokemon are hard to judge.

    Everything else isn't all that notable, but it's good to have Quagsire back.

    Also, with the advent of the SR tutor, NU is no more lacking in great SR setters regardless of Mesprit being here, Orcelot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2012
  11. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Escavalier was UU a few months ago. This is hilarious.
     
  12. Machineae

    Machineae ex NU leader

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    I'm really not to worried about Esca lol. He gets worn down fast and our metagame is pretty damn strong so I'm confident we'll be able to handle him. Eggy is going to opt for HP Fire over Ice now. Min speed Eggy also outspeeds max speed, neutral nature Esca. Emboar is very high in usage. Resists both of Esca's STABs and hits for x4 damage on Flare Blitz. Samurott's LO boosted Waterfall/Surf puts a huge dent in the metal bug as well.
     
  13. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Why is everyone worried about Escavalier???

    CB Emboar is more powerful overall, with better coverage and it can actually outspeed things

    Granted, Esca is bulkier and has a better defensive typing, but CB Emboar is just...more powerful

    Maybe a bulky Escavalier with Toxic / Knock Off can work well
     
  14. Tesla Elesa

    Tesla Elesa Almost Quality

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    Escavalier is definitely going to be scary as hell. It can switch in quite easily with its quite decent bulk and great typing, and then rape your team with Megahorn. Emboar counters it, sure, but what do you do after it's gone?

    And how far Whimsicott has fallen from its old OU days. I really don't understand, it's still completely viable in OU as much as any pokemon. I guess people just shunned it after seeing that priority Sub+Leech Seed wasn't the godliest combo ever (although it is still extremely annoying). I really don't think it will last in NU long, but until then, time to abuse it to the fullest.
     
  15. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    I never said Emboar counters Escavalier (which isn't even true)

    I just said that CB Emboar is much better at wallbreaking
     
  16. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    FUCK LU PLAYERS for letting escavalier drop, also for not letting mesprit drop until now. that is all
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2012
  17. TacoBell

    TacoBell i'm a noob ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Really surprised that Esca dropped to NU. I can definitely see more people carrying fire-type moves/pokemon on their teams.

    Mesprit in NU is nice too since we get another hazards/weather setter and it has great stats and can even try to sweep.

    So yeah, most excited about these two; the rest are nice too. Looks like it's gonna be funnnn.
     
  18. Kumiho

    Kumiho Silhouettes

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    >Escavalier
    >NU

    Jesus Christ. T_T
     
  19. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    ^ That. Gonna use Hp fire on every Pokemon now. ._. (lol just joking maybe on 2-3 Pokemon)

    Also.. Emboar < Quagsire. (Not sure tho)
     
  20. Darklight

    Darklight Nothing is True

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    Quagsire and Hippo dropped again.. Just when Klinklang was raping everything again. Also Whimsicott isn't good either. Esca in NU, LU Players suck, that is all.
     
  21. emac

    emac Emad

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    Well for Starters, Ditto needs to gtfo. Even though team preview is present, Having a poke that can force you to not set up all game is just....stupid. Esca is powerful, but I'm not gonna hop on the "broken" train just yet. I think that Quaggy and mespirit are fine in nu.
     
  22. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    ditto is fine sir. In fact, I'd go so far as to label it 'cash'.

    Esca really doesn't have as many offensive advantages as Emboar. Worse coverage, a big-ol' weakness, and 20 base speed? Sure, it's got decent defensive typing, but I kind of doubt that it's reliable enough to switch in multiple times against attacks and then get walled by anything that resists steel/bug.
     
  23. DodgeDusk

    DodgeDusk New Member

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    Ditto is only as good as the tier it's in. I don't play too much NU, but I see Escavalier being a threat in NU (CB STAB Megahorn coming from a 135 attack? Dat power) but
    252Atk Choice Band Escavalier (+Atk) Megahorn vs 248HP/252Def Leftovers Torkoal (+Def): 27% - 32% (94 - 111 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Escavalier (+Atk) Megahorn vs 212HP/0Def Emboar (Neutral): 28% - 33% (117 - 138 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Escavalier (+Atk) Megahorn vs 252HP/252Def Levitate Weezing (+Def): 31% - 37% (105 - 124 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Escavalier (+Atk) Iron Head vs 252HP/252Def Levitate Weezing (+Def): 42% - 49% (141 - 166 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.[/HIDE]

    Just ran some quick calcs on some pokes people mentioned as well as some common phyiscal walls that counter Escavalier and Escavalier just doesn't have the power to kill them easily. Might have some more success with a swords dance set (which I will try later in the week) because of its bulk and the frequent switches that happen when Escavalier comes in but lack of priority moves hinders it a bit

    EDIT: Sorry if this may come across as me thinking Escavalier is being suspected. I know it isn't but I feel an SD set is better at NU, but we'll see later in the week
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  24. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    everybody quit talking about escavalier's offensive sets and run its defensive sets cos they rule in NU.
     
  25. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    I love how wide Esca's movepool is. He can run defensive, offensive, mixed, support, anything - what a perfect drop for NU.

    Hippo without sand is not going to do anything, ever. Unless you've taken out all of their special attackers, and then they let you set up Curse...

    Quagsire good, except I hate it.
     
  26. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Why do people hate Quagsire so much lol. I love it for being a straight stop to Klinklang, who i really hate.
     
  27. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    He probably just has bad memories of Encore Quagsire from gen 4.
     
  28. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I'm going to play NU much more often, so many great Pokemon down here.

    I really am surprised to see Escavalier drop, when I played LU it was in around 60% of the teams. That was a long time ago though. I wonder if Golurk will gain more popularity now it has the elemental punches and Drain Punch?
     
  29. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    I faced a bunch of Escavalier, none did much to be honest, it's just...too slow and has terrible STABs, and even with those defenses, it still gets killed quite easily by most of the top threats in the tier. Mesprit is alright, I was expecting it to do more to be honest.

    I am currently using a team based on paralysis that also sports King's Rock Cinccino (that is retardedly strong) + sub Body Slam Relicanth, it's working quite well

    Bulky Klinklang is amazing right now because people are spamming Escavalier and Defensive Klinklang checks it quite well
     
  30. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Been trying out the improved Golurk and Escavalier today. They were both great. I think Escavalier shouldn't have been moved down. Regardless of usage, it's too strong for NU. Once the bulky steel types and the fire types are down, it's almost unstoppable. Golurk's a good teammate for it, since it can check both of them.
     
  31. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Golurk loses to most of the fire types in the tier and the fire types would switch out of Golurk if locked into a bad move (think about Choice Emboar locked in Superpower), so that's not a valid point. Removing the steel types isn't as easy as it sounds, mainly because Dugtrio loses to Klinklang and Escavalier checks itself pretty well. Also, Escavalier is too slow, and while bulky, its coverage is so bad it has problems dealing damage
     
  32. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Agree with L>S except on the first point. Golurk has a stab EQ, as well as a very good HP stat, so it should be able to survive a non banded Flare Blitz.
    252Atk Blaze Emboar (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Golurk (Neutral): 65% - 76% (249 - 294 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    Since I see a lot of Golurks not bothering with it's speed and only its attack and HP really.
    Meanwhile, on the other side.
    252Atk Iron Fist Golurk (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Emboar (Neutral): 135% - 160% (492 - 582 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    Even if it happens to be a Bulky one, it'll still die after Flare Blitz recoil.
    Banded Emboars however, I do agree with you on that one, but they aren't as common as the Scarf variants.

    The same applies with the other mons.
    Also, just in case you wanted one with Golurk to have 4 EVs in HP.
    252Atk Blaze Emboar (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 4HP/0Def Klutz Golurk (Neutral): 77% - 91% (249 - 294 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    I like those odds.
     
  33. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    I've never said Emboar can always beat Golurk, I just said that it's not true that Golurk beats fire types that easily. If it switches into Flare Blitz it's dead, no matter what, while you are supposed to have something to take on Golurk so it's not too bad to use Superpower on it.

    Also, use Butterfree, Substitute / Quiver Dance / Bug Buzz wrecks a lot of teams by itself. I run Sleep Powder in the last slot but if you already have a sleeper / prefer staying power you can always opt for Roost. I don't run any other coverage move because, thanks to Tinted Lens, Bug Buzz is already strong enough. HP Fire is an option because, even with Tinted Lens, Escavalier is problematic (specially bulky Esca takes ~33% from +1 Bug Buzz)
     
  34. Machineae

    Machineae ex NU leader

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    DON'T TELL PEOPLE ABOUT BUTTERFREE.
    *Ahem*

    I think its safe to say that Escavalier has a MUCH tougher time in the NU environment than in the above tiers thanks to our metagame. An offensive set just can't keep up. Its STABs to put them nicely, are shit. A toxic stalling/bulky pivot can work well. Its just tough with Emboar so common in the tier. It also has no recovery outside of lefties and Rest so its not like you're going to stay around for long. Its best aspect is the steel typing so you're immune to toxic and it just boosts your defensive utility.
     
  35. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Due to a little problem with our server tiers, Meloetta is currently allowed in NU, where it clearly isn't meant to be.

    It is going to be banned as soon as possible (at next server restart most likely), and the ladder will be reset.

    Sorry for the inconvenience
     
  36. Emperor PPP

    Emperor PPP PKMNPurePower

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    Thank you, where are you putting it? OU?
    Anyway, Butterfree, NBZ... We all know the rest

    I've been having a lot of fun using Sub SD Escavalier in NU because it causes so many switches, although the SD may only be good on the lower part of the ladder it could be replaced with a coverage move
     
  37. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    It probably will start from OU just like all the "new" pokemon released, although I'm not entirely sure how tiering for higher tiers works, we may allow it in UU since it was UU in the DW tiers.

    Escavalier is fun to play, and a Specially Bulky set is the best set as of now, since it helps against a lot of things.
     
  38. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I think UU will be a good tier for Meloetta, since it'll have the field more or less to itself there. It can run a number of sets, from Stallbreaker to physical sweeper (with Relic Song to change formes). In fact, for the role of versatile psychic type, it only really has to compete with Mew.
     
  39. Darklight

    Darklight Nothing is True

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    Well, I don't really think we should talk about Meloetta in a NU Potential suspect discussion.
     
  40. New Breed

    New Breed ka$h

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    This.
     
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