Discussion in 'Gen 5 Side Metagames' started by User Name, Jul 6, 2012.
There's a login on the upper right, but I think your old account works, doesn't it?
Sorry for the absence - will crack on with MonoWater ASAP. Had personal things to sort out.
Will take away Storm Drain, you're right it is redundant to mention it in MonoWater.
No it doesn't work.
EDIT: oops, just saw the create account option but I'm getting this error: "Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL used by Pokemon Online Wiki. You cannot create an account (18.104.22.168)"
Welll I love Bug types and would be happy to contribute. I mean, bug types are my favorite but i know stuff about other groups.
Whew, haven't checked on the wiki in a while. Lessee...
Last change I see is during January; perhaps get that Mienshao in? :P
Very late response, I know. Sorry about that, should've gotten to you sooner. XP
A lot of your matchups seem to be super-condensed; they could use some elaboration. For the "recent" ones, Poison and Ground give useful information but not really how to apply it.
Flying and Psychic are better, especially Psychic. Flying is like several other matchups in that it doesn't really say which Pokemon will help you the most in which matchup and which of the opponent's Pokemon would be the most troublesome. In some matchups it would also be good to mention which Pokemon on your team will probably be deadweight.
Matchups you should probably expand on are: Normal, Fire, Water, Grass, Ice, Poison, Ground, Flying, Ghost, Dragon, Dark, and Steel. And of course Bug and Rock. :P
Ahaha, looking at the Water page, you've probably picked one of the harder projects. Water is a gigantic type; you've made a good start, though. Keep it up, you only have 19 more Waters to go through, give or take a few depending on whether you decide to delete or add Pokemon ;3
Still a lot of work to go :O
Let's get it!
It would be great to have your help. Is there anything you need to know? :)
Bug is more or less done, I suppose you could put in more info if you'd like. However, the Monos that would REALLY like the help are listed in this post. See if there's anything in there you know about, and then feel free to get started :)
Sorry, I just found another random time to get on and my life has yet to be made easier for me... around mid-June, perhaps? I'll give my best D;
I can't create an account in the new wiki. I'll be free in 2 weeks though and I'll try my best to write the analysis down. Anyone can update it, so no problems. And I'd ask if Slowkii's gonna join me.
Okay... I'll soon be returning to work on the wiki, but sometime wjen I'm on a computer because PHONES ARE STUPID D:
I remember doing Fighting and... anything else? No, I think that was it really. In that case, is there any Mono that would need testing, writing etc? Because if I ought to test stuff it should be before July, at the best...
Added the majority of notable ghosts, sans Jellicent
END OF JUNE DEADLINE COMING UP (man we're super behind schedule XD)
Alright, now that that's over: I didn't notice we had changed wikis yet again @[email protected]
Very nice! Don't forget to touch up your matchups a bit.
Well, my last big post here prioritizes Fighting, Normal, Dragon, and Ice. So those would be the best ones to test, and you're already working on Fighting anyhow :P
Yeah, I've got Fighting alright. I thought Ice was done, though :O
Probably gonna test Normal in my last few bits of spare time before the holidays, then. Dragon is probably also nearly done (all my fault).
Updated some sections, notably Bugs
New update. Finished with the majority of ghosts.
Seems pretty solid. Ya wanna do the links, or should I do that?
Just get Jellicent done, and maybe provide more info for Normal, Grass, and Ghost matchips, and we can get it off the incomplete list :D
Links as in... linking pokemon and moves to their respective articles?
EDIT: Finished Jellicent, and normal, grass, and Ghost matchups.
Fighting is FINALLY completed!!! ^^
Yup, linking moves, abilities, etc
And neat! Looks pretty much done now. Will be doing a bit of cleanup, and then will add to the finished list.
I'll check up on yours after checking Xinc's, and try to get a status assessment ASAP. :)
Alright, status update--
Completed analyses are:
Almost done analyses are:
-Psychic (ESPECIALLY THIS ONE JUST NEEDS THE LATI TWINS)
Besides the above, the analyses that still need work are:
And uncreated analyses, which I recommend saving for later UNLESS you are CERTAIN you can finish it:
Pretty nice job, guys! We're about 4 or so Monotypes behind schedule from what I can tell, though Psychic is pretty much all but finished. Hopefully we can wrap up Poison, Psychic only needs about 10 minutes to complete--those are currently the ones I'm hoping most for, which will bring us up to 2 Monotypes behind, which can be filled by several others of the above. Don't stop yet, don't let June roll by without another Monotype or 2 done!
I'm willing to help out on water should help be needed.
I'll probably be doing Ice next, then. I have no experience with Latis so I can't help on those :<
Worked on the Water mono article: Quagsire, Jellicent, and Ghost matchup.
Added [email protected] to the MonoPsychic page
Done some more work on Ice. Will probably be done by the next or second next time I get to edit it. I removed Snow Cloak mentions as well as seemingly much less important members, by the way.
Neat work. Not much else to comment on, though you might want to mention Jellicent's support moves as well as common Pokemon Quagsire can help against (like Volcarona, for example, though Volcarona can still 2HKO non-Special Def Quagsire even without a boost with Bug Buzz).
Yaaaaaay now the MonoPsychic is done :D
One step closer to world domination completion!
Good work overall. While I think the rest of your removals are justified, might Jynx have some use, considering its multiple niches of Nasty Plot, Lovely Kiss, and Dry Skin?
Reading your MonoGrass matchup was amusing. TBH, it doesn't even take Kyurem-B or Mamoswine most the time, any decently fast member with an Ice move can do the trick, even Froslass, who has the added benefit of being a great Breloom check.
I'll finish Mono-Dragon up if I'm given the ok to edit it
I wouldn't exactly consider Altaria to be Notable but whatever I'll go along with it :o
Done. Also added Gyarados. You could also count the Ghost page done. Unless linking pages is needed.
Finished Mono-Dragon :D
http://wiki.pokemon-online.eu/wiki/Monotype/Dragon feel free to add to the match-ups section as I didn't go into much detail at all, lol.
I did consider Jynx and maybe I should have left it, honestly. What I was thinking of though was a scarfed set to help against MonoFightings, since it has Psychic and the added benefit of a sleeping move. But I felt a bit intimidated with its usage (# 234 - Jynx (0.20 %)) and therefore decided to leave it out. I will have another look at it the next time I get to edit the wiki (either tonight or tomorrow night, probably).
Now that you mention Breloom, that is something else I will have to add, because it can also be quite threatening. But the primary thing I wanted to show with Kyurem and Mamo was just how easy the matchup should really be.
EDIT: Jynx is added, Ice is finished apart from Water, Ghost and Psychic matchups.
EDIT 2: Almost forgot to add that Loom XD
EDIT 3: Water matchup is now done too.
Started the MonoGrass page today. Should have it finished within the next few days, but it anyone wants to give me a hand that would be much appreciated, since doubtless I'll miss something.
@Xinc, MMM, MewtwoHidden, Dr Doom
Wow, you guys went pretty crazy today @[email protected]
Guess that weekend really makes all the difference. As for my weekend, I spent my time on a lotta other things, so I'll have to look at all the stuff later and I'll put up a status update then. :D
Ah, yes, you do need some more work in your matchups. I'll put the incomplete tag back for now. Also, might want to account for it's and its; use "it's" when you are saying "it is", and use "its" when you're talking about something possessed by something else, eg "Kyurem's Outrage"="its Outrage". Those are the most common problems, I'll give a more in-depth look tomorrow.
Ah, yes, Ghost is done. Did I forget to say that in my last post? My bad. >x<
When I have too much time/boredom/the right combination of both on my hands, I stop playing games. (more or less literally, actually...)
So, I hope to finish MonoIce today and then I'll probably move on to MonoDragon to help with matchups and anything else that may be needed, as next to Ice, Flying and Fighting, it's probably the one I spent most time gambling my ladder points with.
EDIT 1: Ice is now done, and I decided to add Rotom-F as well. Will now proceed to work on Monodragon.
EDIT 2: Halfway through MonoDragon matchups, also worked on the few newer individual Pokémon anayses.
EDIT 3: Done.
EDIT 4: I will proceed to work on Monoflying which seems to have been abandoned for a while...
EDIT 5: Added some analyses for MonoFlying, but feel free to lend me a hand with the few ones remaining as I have no real personal experience with those in Monotype.
I have, at the time of this writing, reviewed Water, Ice, Psychic, and Dragon. I can happily say that Ice, Psychic, and Dragon are definitely completed right now, which brings us up to only 1 matchup needed to put us right on schedule--and it seems we're right on track in that regard, too! I'll be looking over the Grass and Flying analyses after this post. Water still has a lot of work to go (hey, it's Water after all), but it's pretty solid overall.
Also, MMM, your puns in the Ice matchups were painfully hilarious.
In the near future I'll probably only get to do a bit of the matchups in MonoFlying. I'm not sure whether I'll have any time to do much else, but I've got Ice and Dragon over with by now, at least.
Keldeo and Sharpedo for water analysis is done. I'm going to work more on the water analysis page.
Well I'm afraid to actually go in an edit so if someone could do it for me that'd be amazing.
Please remove Archeops from the notable pokemon list. It's not all that great as there are far better options to set up rocks or sweep.
Thundurus-I is arguably the most important pokemon on a flying mono team bar Xatu. Access to Prankster T-wave allows it to cripple opposing scarfers such as Terrakion, Genesect, and Heracross that would otherwise demolish Flying teams. Access to Nastly Plot and Grass Knot, Thunderbolt, and any Hidden Power allows for great coverage and an incredibly high special attacking stat. That combined with a nice base 111 speed stat make Thundurus one of the most scary pokemon to face.
Landorus-T is quite often overlooked by his normal counterpart. The ability intimidate lets Landorus slightly cripple opposing physical attackers. Base 145 attack and 91 speed make Choice Scarf a great choice. U-turn can be used for scouting purposes along with a common Edgequake combo and Fly/Punishment/Brick Break/Superpower to round off coverage. Despite having a mere 91 as its speed Choice Band can also be used as added power making anything unresisted frighteningly powerful.
Zapdos add Agility as a viable move. Agility + Life Orb make Zapdos scary. Thunderbolt/Heat Wave/HP Grass make it so not many pokemon want to stay in. Lightningrod only helps add to the sweeping capabilities.
Mantine is not as good in practice as in theory. Low speed, mediocre special attack, and inability to take many attacks make mantine more of a dead weight that anything.
Add Staraptor to the notable pokemon. With Reckless, 120 base attack, and 100 base speed make Staraptor and excellent choice for Choice Scarf. Being base 100 speed Staraptor outpaces all Genesect (bar Rock Polish) with a + speed nature and can in turn KO with a neutral STAB Reckless boosted Brave Bird. Double Edge and Brave Bird allow for INSANE power backed by Reckless and a 120 base attack are nothing to scoff at. U-turn can be added for scouting and Close Combat to round off coverage. A + attack nature or a Choice Band can also be used if you aren't afraid of Genesect.
Will update for types later
I assume... this is for flying.
I'll do this since it's been mainly me working on MonoFlying.
Pulled up a short Water vs Water matchup, and Water x Grass matchup, which is longer.
Thanks for the editing @#PRO|-MMM-, my typing can be a bit awkward. Realized Rock doesn't even have a page and Poison can use some real work so I'll take those on for now. I'll finish Flying later, and I'll edit this post after I finish. EDIT: Super tired... here's what I have now
EDIT 2-Changes in bold Added Aggron, Cradily, Lunatone/Solrock, and Shuckle. Type Matchups now.
At first glance, Rock seems like one of the worst types to create a Monotype team. 5 glaring weaknesses to common moves (Water, Grass, Ground, Fighting, and Steel) 3 of which some of the more popular team choices (Water, Fighting, and Steel). Boasting the unique ability to boost special defense in the Sand, Rock Pokemon can sometimes take more special attacks than they usually can despite having average special defence. However offensively, Rock is one of the best types out there. Only three types resist Rock (Ground, Steel, and Fighting) and Rock hits 4 types super-effectively (Bug, Fire, Flying, and Ice). This is a great gift because Bug, Flying, and Ice are 3 major threats in the Monotype metagame. With easy access to iStealth Rock and Spikes, Rock can do damage with hazards that will help with sweeping ability. Many rock types also have boosting moves such as Rock Polish, Dragon Dance, and Shell Smash to help make up for their rather lackluster speed. With all things in consideration a dedicated trainer can make the ignored Rock type shine.
Tyranitar is one of the most versatile pokemon to use in the Montype tier. Unlike in OU, those typical sets so not use this beast to the fullest in the heavily offensive tier. Access to moves like Rock Polish and Dragon Dance make Tyranitar a force to be reckoned with after a boost. Base 134 attack and 94 special attack make Tyranitar a threat as a physical, special, or even mixed sweeper. This amazing potential does come with it's drawbacks. A move 4 limit severely hinders Tyranitar's potential even though he carries a wide variety of moves on both the special and physical side. These moves include but aren't limited to Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, Earth Power, and Focus Blast on the special side and Crunch, Earthquake, Brick Break, Fire/Ice/Thunder Punch and Stone Edge on the Physical Side. Even despite this handicap Tyranitar can still shine as a late-mid game sweeper. Tyranitar should NEVER and I repeat NEVER be used as a lead because most Ice teams sacrifice Abomasnow as other weather starters are banned from the tier. Switching in Tyranitar after Abomasnow faints severely cripples Ice teams as it makes Ice Body useless and takes away the 100% Blizzard accuracy in the Hail.
Terrakion returns to wreck havoc on the Monotype tier. Base 129 atack and 108 speed make Terrakion a scary physical treat. Whether running a choice item, or set up moves, Terrakion is scary either way. Choice Scarf is the preferred item because Rock is already at a severe handicap when it comes to speed. Not much to say here as dual STAB moves (Close Combat and Stone Edge) alone with Earthquake and/or X-Scissor generally do the trick. A Substitute + Swords Dance with Salac Berry can be deadly if set up right although not recommended.
At first glance Archeops looks like an incredibly frightening sweeper boasting 140 base attack, 112 special attack, and 110 speed Archeops seems to fit the bill perfectly. However with one of the worst abilities in the game in Defeatist, after losing 50% of its health Archeops' attack stats are halved. This is combination with a Stealth Rock weakness and terrible defensive stats make in nearly impossible for Archeops to stay above that ever-so-taunting 50% HP mark. Even with this huge flaw Archeops can still hold his ground in the Monotype metagame. Access to a speedy Taunt and Stealth Rock, Archeops can play the role of a dedicated suicide lead. Archeops can also take the role of a physical sweeper with moves like Acrobatics, Earthquake, U-Turn, Crunch, and Stone Edge while access to moves like Focus Blast, Earth Power, Heat Wave and Hidden Power can help Archeops take the role of a physical or mixed sweeper.
Aerodactyl plays virtually the same way as Archeops. Without Defeatist or a decent special attack Aerodactyl is limited to playing the role of a physical sweeper or dedicated lead, but base 130 speed help by allowing Aerodactyl to invest more in offensive power. Stone Edge, Earthquake, and Crunch serve as the most useful attacking moves for Aerodactyl while the Elemental Fangs and Fly/Aerial Ace serve as decent coverage moves. Aerodactyl's base 105 seems good on paper but proves somewhat lacking when not hitting with a STAB move so Life Orb can be quite useful as Aerodactyl has no Defeatist to worry about.
Level one Aron can be used in conjunction with Tyranitar to create an annoyng, trollish monster. Sturdy, Shell Bell, and Endeavor make Aron nearly impossible to defeat while Sand is raging. Hazards are a must to watch out for as they destroy Aron so Armaldo is a necessary
Armaldo is one of the two Pokemon with Rapid Spin and a Rock typing. Access to Stealth Rock, Seismic Toss and Knock Off along with great defense make it a great utility pokemon. A base 125 attack make Armaldo a potential offensive threat. X-Scissor, Earthquake, and Stone Edge provide good coverage and Brick Break and Aqua Tail can serve as coverage moves if necessary. While seemingly quiet in most other tiers, Armaldo can prove near essential for a Monorock team.
Omastar in one of the greatest Shell Smash users in the game. Surf/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Hidden Power are all Omastar needs to sweep. After one Shell Smash Omastar can be quite scary as not many Pokemon would like to stay in and take a hit.... if they can. Focus Sash is a necessary item to ensure Omaster gets up a Shell Smash. The speed gained is great for Monorock teams. Omastar can also serve a great purpose as a utility. Access to all 3 entry hazards and great defense, Omaster has the possibility to wreck havoc on the opposing team through use of hazards. Omastar is one of the two Rock pokemon that utilize the move Spikes. Another reason to consider Omastar for your team.
Not only does Aggron look badass, but he backs it up quite well with he physical abilities. Access to Automize and Rock Polish (just a little redundant) allow him so boost his worse-than-sub-par speed to an acceptable level. With the 4th highest base defense at 180, (tied with Cloyster) Aggron can easily take physical hits bar Fighting and Ground and proceed to be a pain to anything in his path. A great movepool and 2 amazing abilities make it somewhat difficult to decide on what to do with Aggron which happens to be a common theme in many Rock type Pokemon. Rock Head is generally the better option as a Focus Sash can be used and get the same effect as Sturdy also allowing Aggron to use the ever so powerful Head Smash with no downsides. Except of course the 80% accuracy. The last two moves should be used to hit what hurts your team most. After all Monotype is all about being able to handle any type at any time. Aggron's coverage moves can range from Earthquake and Aqua Tail to the three Elemental Punches and Shadow Claw.
At first glance one might ask why use Cradily on a Monorock team? Mediocre stat with a lacking movepool make Cradily off putting at first. The ability Storm Drain make Cradily immune to any Water type attacking while boosting his Special Attack. This is a gift as water move are a huge threat to Rock teams. Access to Curse, Swords Dance, Recover, Rest, Sleep Talk, and great offensive STAB moves Cradily can be quite frightening coming in late game if the opponent doesn't expect him. The Grass typing helps Cradily get rid of 3 key weaknesses in Grass, Ground, and Water However you must beware of Fighting moves and status as they are generally the culprits to Cradily's demise.
These two are essentially the same pokemon. Same typing. Same stats but the physical and special side are switched. This is not enough to warrant a separate section for each. The main selling point for these Pokemon is Trick Room. Rock types are notorious for having low speed and Trick Room can help alleviate this weakness. With rather lackluster defenses, moves, and god awful typing (8 weaknesses), these two should only be used for Trick Rooming the Exploding. Baton Passing a speed boost (through Rock Polish) may work but Rock types share too many weaknesses across the board despite dual typing for this strategy to be successful. When considering these two pokemon for your team you should make sure you don't have more than 1 Trick Room abuser for each Pokemon. 3 as a max if you use both. Awful defenses make it hard to switch them back in or even set up a Trick Room in the first place.
Ahhhh the lolsy Shuckle. Access to Shell Smash helps negate the base 5 speed. Backed by an acceptable attacking movepool Shuckle can be quite the offensive force..... LOL Joking. With a base stat total of 505 (95% of which is invested in defense and HP) and the highest base defenses in the game at 230, Shuckle can be a real stally nightmare. Sandstorm's special defense boost makes it so you can fully invest in HP and defense. Gimmicky moves such as Power Trick (the proper way to use offensive Shuckle), Power Swap, Toxic, Rest, Encore, and Stealth Rock make Shuckle a great gimmick abusers, Toxic staller, or utility. While maybe not a first choice Shuckle has a unique niche on Rock Monotype teams.
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