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[BW2] BW2 OU Potential Suspects Thread

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by IFM, Jul 13, 2012.

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  1. IFM

    IFM HODOR HODOR HODOR

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    It's been three weeks since the release of BW2 in Japan and the meta-game is beginning to settle. This thread is for discussing potentially problematic area's of the tier. When bringing up new points or supporting/disagree with the brought up by others make sure to not rely on theorymon and use examples from experience. Also include damage calculations and other similar things as often as possible to support your statements. Have fun.
     
  2. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    My personal list of things to look at (and not an official list):

    Kyurem-B - I would like to see whether or not it would be horribly broken in OU. I think it will, but we had an argument about it in Indigo, and it seems as if it would be a slightly-slower-but-overall-much-better Haxous with an abusable Special Attack. It'd be interesting to see, at least.

    Thundurus-T - Its original forme is banned. Should its slightly-stronger, slightly-slower counterpart be too? I'm guessing that people are using Terrakion a lot, which will make this interesting.

    Thundurus - Well, if its Therian forme is alright...
     
  3. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Kyu-B could be tested imo, I mean, what it does could be done better by a bunch of other pokes honestly, although CB Outrage would annihilate everything (Haxorus exists???)

    Thundurus-T isn't this devastating force everyone is depicting it to be, lack of priority thunder wave and being in a bad speed tier compared to the old thundurus really hinders it

    About the regular Thundurus I don't know, I guess a test never hurts
     
  4. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Keldeo should be tested too imo, with Specs it can 2HKO pretty much the entire metagame.

    Kyurem-B should be staying in Ubers imo, unlike Haxorus he can use Fusion Bolt to OHKO Skarmory and he can 2HKO Ferrothorn with Outrage, or even OHKO it with Freeze Shock.
     
  5. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    agreed with Kyu-B being retested. people are acting like it's this unstoppable force but in reality it shouldn't be that hard to beat - it's weak to common priority, stealth rock, slower than most of the tier, has effectively zero physical movepool (Outrage is very good but most steels can legit stop it - i mean, not even 252/0 ferrothorn is 2hkoed unless a decent amount of prior damage [252Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Outrage vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Ferrothorn (Neutral): 44% - 52% (156 - 184 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.]. Fusion Bolt is mostly useless outside of skarmory but very useful for it and hitting some steels neutral). It needs to run 2 special moves to pose a bigger threat and frankly there are faster, higher SAtked mixed dragon attackers with better movepool and ability not weak to most priority that aren't uber.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
  6. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Not saying that Kyurem-B is broken in OU or not, but just some calcs I found interesting.
    252Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Outrage vs 252HP/0Def Scizor (Neutral): 57% - 67% (197 - 232 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 0HP/4Def Kyurem Black (Neutral): 81% - 97% (320 - 380 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    This is interesting because, Scizor will beat a Kyurem one-on-one if Stealth Rock is up, if not then Kyurem will 2HKO. Kyurem can also use Fusion Bolt to 2HKO Scizor; meaning Scizor can come in and take a hit only once.

    252Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Freeze Shock vs 252HP/88Def Leftovers Ferrothorn (+Def): 87% - 103% (309 - 364 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 21% chance to OHKO.
    Ferrothorn really can't switch in safely on Kyurem if he uses Freeze Shock, and If you switch out something will likely die.

    252Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Fusion Bolt vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Jirachi (Neutral): 54% - 64% (220 - 259 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. Jirachi won't be able to come in safely.

    252Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Fusion Bolt vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Skarmory (+Def): 74% - 88% (248 - 294 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. Not much to say, Skarm can't come in safely.

    252Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Fusion Bolt vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Heatran (Neutral): 54% - 63% (209 - 246 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. Heatran gets cleanly 2HKO'd, don't get me started on Offensive versions.

    252Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Outrage vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Magnezone (Neutral): 61% - 73% (174 - 206 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. Magnezone is the only Pokemon who resists Ice/Dragon/Electric and he still gets 2HKO'd.

    Kyurem 2HKO's at worst just about every Steel type in the tier, and every non-Steel type is going to be hit massively hard by 170 Attack Choice Banded STAB'd Outrage.. Note I'm also using the standard sets I.E. no one runs Max Def Heatran and etc.
     
  7. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    the issue with the freeze shock thing is it's extremely not worth using, charged moves suck (switching in is also easier via ice rather than dragon). rest of those calcs are totally legit. didn't expect scizor to take a hit so well, i'd call that a definite check given that rocks are almost always up.

    worth adding is forretress, who takes max 49% on 252/0 with CB outrage. CB outrage's calc on 252/0 jirachi is 48% - 57% for me, not sure what we did differently. does 43-51% to 252/0 metagross.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
  8. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    The band set always runs Freeze Shock though, if only for the fact that Ferrothorn is a common switch in and walls you otherwise. It's not like you need the moveslot or anything.

    Scizor is a definite check but the fact that it can only switch in once really hinders it.
     
  9. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I have some interesting calcs as well:

    252 Atk Choice Band Rivalry Haxorus (+Atk) Superpower vs 252 HP/252 Def Ferrothorn (+Def) : 99.43% - 117.61%
    2 hits to KO

    252 Atk Choice Band Rivalry Haxorus (+Atk) Outrage vs 252 HP/0 Def Scizor: 63.95% - 75.58%
    252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Haxorus: 60.41% - 70.99%

    252 Atk Choice Band Rivalry Haxorus (+Atk) Superpower vs 252 HP/252 Def Heatran (+Def) : 105.7% - 124.35%
    Yes I know no one runs max defense heatran. At least, I don't think.

    252 Atk Choice Band Rivalry Haxorus (+Atk) Superpower vs 252 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 151.74% - 179.07%

    252 Atk Choice Band Rivalry Haxorus (+Atk) Aqua Tail vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 55.99% - 66.17%
    2 hits to KO
    That is in rain.[/HIDE]

    Note Haxorus doesn't have weakness to rocks and doesn't need a 2 turn move to break one of the premier walls in the tier over its knee in one attack.

    Also I really hope someone doesn't get the idea to test Kyurem-W because that's obviously just an entirely different beast lol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
  10. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    does it in ubers? because i sincerely doubt it would in OU. it's not even the best way it can beat ferrothorn, it can throw a HP Fire in there for the 2hko. [0SpAtk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 252HP/168SpDef Leftovers Ferrothorn (Neutral): 51% - 61% (180 - 216 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.]
     
  11. IFM

    IFM HODOR HODOR HODOR

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    Pokemonnerd I don't think you can really include rivalry anymore since it is so unreliable with the random genders that PO now uses that mold breaker is pretty much the standard.
     
  12. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Mighty big fail on my part, not noticing the ability. Point still stands however:

    252 Atk Choice Band Haxorus (+Atk) Superpower vs 252 HP/252 Def Ferrothorn (+Def) : 80.11% - 94.32%
    252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Freeze Shock vs 252 HP/252 Def Ferrothorn (+Def) : 77.84% - 92.05%

    252 Atk Choice Band Haxorus (+Atk) Superpower vs 0 HP/0 Def Heatran (+Def) : 126.93% - 149.85%

    252 Atk Choice Band Haxorus (+Atk) Aqua Tail vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 44.91% - 52.99%
    After entry hazards: 191 - 218 (57.19% - 65.27%)
    2 hits to KO

    252 Atk Choice Band Haxorus (+Atk) Outrage vs 252 HP/0 Def Scizor: 51.45% - 60.47%[/HIDE]

    Although it loses the "break it in one attack without charging" thing I made a big deal of.
     
  13. Emperor PPP

    Emperor PPP PKMNPurePower

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    I think Chomp deserves a retest if we're going to give Kyurem-B a chance, it would be one of the main non-steel type checks to it
    252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs 4 HP/0 Def Kyurem-B: 100.26% - 118.62% (Guaranteed OHKO)
     
  14. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Kyurem-B hits hard with CB Outrage, what's new?

    If that alone makes it broken then ban Haxorus, because it is faster, it hits hard enough, no SR weak, no Bullet Punch and Mach Punch weak, and it is more versatile because it has better coverage and better set up moves.

    Also Freeze Shock is nowhere near reliable, it doesn't even get the "surprise OHKO" on Ferrothorn because you need recharge and it can easily switch out.

    The stats alone don't make a Pokemon broken.
     
  15. Emperor PPP

    Emperor PPP PKMNPurePower

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    The only difference between this and Haxorus is that Kyurem-B has a usable special attack stat, and a viable life orb set with Outrage/Fusion Bolt/HP Fire/Roost off the top of my head
    The weakness to priority could make Kyurem-B an OU suspect quite easily, I agree with you there
    Anyway it'll get retested, we'll see what happens
     
  16. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    If I tried to convey the fact that I think Kyurem-B will be broken, I didn't mean to do that, I do think it does deserve a retest. Stealth Rock and common weaknesses are what make this thing not so great in Ubers so it should be tested.
    I'm not saying that Freeze Shock is reliable, it's a terrible move but when Ferrothorn comes in on the charge turn, Ferrothorn is getting KO'd or something else is taking a hard hit. Believe me it's only use is in a CB set and I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise.
     
  17. Emperor PPP

    Emperor PPP PKMNPurePower

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    I've built my team ready for the retest, I'm going to use Outrage/Ice Beam/Fusion Bolt/Roost with a life orb and support from Magnezone
     
  18. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Well, we have no guarantee that any retest is going to happen as of yet. I mainly just posted those calcs to prove the point that simply hitting monstrously hard does not make a pokemon broken; at least not without taking all other factors into account as well, anyway.
     
  19. Emperor PPP

    Emperor PPP PKMNPurePower

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    I'm pretty sure a retest is coming
     
  20. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    Unless you're running Power Herb, you should not be using Freeze Shock if Kyurem-B is tested in OU. If a Scizor switches in as you charge, it just KO'd your Kyurem for free.

    On a similar note, Choice Band Kyurem-B lacks physical options: Outrage, Dragon Claw, Freeze Shock (see the note above), Fusion Bolt, Return, Zen Headbutt and Stone Edge make up its viable options. Of those, none are viable against Ferrothorn without charging, and Magnezone resists the entire list (and can hit with Flash Cannon).
    Luckily, between Outrage, Dragon Claw and Fusion Bolt, you aren't really going to need another physical move. Slap HP Fire on Choice Band Kyurem. That'll help. Also, make sure your opponent doesn't have a Bullet Punch Pokemon before locking yourself into Outrage.

    In my opinion, a mixed set will be the best option. 120 Special Attack is still very good, especially when it has access to Draco Meteor. In addition, if you happen to have an Attack stat of 376 or higher and a Life Orb, you can always 2HKO 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey with Outrage, as well as easily 2HKOing 252 HP / 252 Def Blissey through Leftovers. Oh, did I mention that you automatically reach 376 Attack with ZERO investment in Attack and a neutral nature? That gives you room to run a very large investment in Special Attack and Speed. I'd run HP Fire and Focus Blast, as they take out all other troublesome Pokemon. The only Pokemon that might survive are Terrakion in the Sand (and it loses if Focus Blast hits when Stealth Rock is on the field),Tyranitar (who is slower and is still OHKO'd after Rocks with Focus Blast 81.25% of the time anyway) and Specially Defensive Jirachi (...well, I never said it was foolproof. HP Fire 3HKOs).


    Anyway, I think I've done my theorymonning for the day.
     
  21. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    Hmmm,

    Kyreum-B deserves a test, after all, that speed isn't doing it any justice. I'm agreeing with the post above me, Kyreum-B can make good use of a Life Orb. I also think that Scarfer set can be utilized, although Haxorus just does it better.

    The rain genies aren't that broken, at least I find that even my sand team can laugh at them. I'm only mentioning this because I have major complaints on the server about Thundy-T being broken. Just wanted to say that all non-scarf Thundy-T die to the current Meta. It relies on the opponent assuming scarf, but if its discovered that it isn't scarf before it sets up anything dangerous, then it will just die. Scarf versions hate anything that resists Thunders. TTar / Jolteon / Landy-T / Landy / Lanturn (it isn't that bad, I actually used it) / Gastrodon / Gliscor this list goes on. Sure it has Hidden Power [Ice], but with prediction skills its, like, manageable. Also, Torn-T isn't that broken either. Its speed tier is really annoying, but seriously can be handled. Most scarfers like Terrak / Latios / Latias / TTar (scarf ones fuck up Hurricane, but superpowers are no noes :c) / Thundy-T / and I seriosuly think thats ok too. I on a roadtrip atm so I haven't played in a week, so this might be outdated / lanturn shit only i use (I got page 1 on old server, and i DID get new server but got addicted to Fanfic so i haven't been as active.) My input, bye.
     
  22. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    The new meta is fast, fast, fast with Tornadus-T holding a monopoly on the metagame in terms of momentum and Scarf Terrakion + Scizor here to check it with Scarf / Priority. Thundurus-T is too slow for an NP set and gets outsped by Terrakion, Scarf Landlorus-T, and Scarf Latios (more common and much more effective now).
    Is there something odd with the usage stats or are people just dumb? There's no way that Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T are dropping straight into UU...
     
  23. Fate/Dracoflare

    Fate/Dracoflare Kayneth Fried Circuits

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    People are adjusting to the metagame? Nasty Plot Thundrus- T isn't worth it. The most lethal Thundrus-T set I saw was the Agility set with Thunder+LO. An amazing late game sweeper in rain . If you don't have rocks up even Scizor can only 3HKO it.
     
  24. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Thundurus-T is too slow to make use of Nasty Plot. I think Thundurus-T would be fine in OU - it's Stealth Rock weak, and the loss of Prankster really hurt it. Volt Absorb's not bad...but Motor Drive or Lightningrod would've been much better. A set I found works well for Thudurus-T:

    Nature: Modest (+SAtk -Atk)
    Item: Life Orb
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
    Agility
    Nasty Plot
    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power Ice

    It works in a similar way to Terrakion's Double Dance set. Need to break a wall? Use Nasty Plot. Need to clean up late game? Use Agility. Thunderbolt and HP Ice get pretty much perfect coverage, with only Magnezone and Thick Fat Mamoswine resisting them both. Because of Agility, you don't need to run a Timid nature.

    Here are some calcs:
    252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Thundurus Therian (+SAtk) Thunderbolt vs 252HP/0SpDef Blissey (Neutral): 51% - 61% (370 - 436 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Thundurus Therian (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Ice) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Ferrothorn (+SpDef): 43% - 51% (153 - 180 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. (2HKO after Spikes)
    252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Thundurus Therian (+SAtk) Thunderbolt vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Forretress (+SpDef): 99% - 99% (353 - 353 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (1HKO after Stealth Rock or Spikes)
    252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Thundurus Therian (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Ice) vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Multiscale Dragonite (Neutral): 121% - 144% (468 - 556 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
     
  25. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    I seriously don't find this set too threatening. Even after a Nasty Plot boost, HP Ice won't be OHKO'ing Jolteon (at least I don't think so?! o: I
    m not calcing since its 70 bp non-stab, but if I'm wrong correct me o: )

    Thundy-T is really hard-pressed to set up an agility against offensive-based teams, and seriously, as good as it is against stall, offensive teams are so much spiked into use meaning that speed will be most important. With it being hard-pressed to set up an agility safely, weakness to SR, and weakness to priority attacks, Thundy-T is very manageable. Not to mention, Life Orb and SR really have a big toll on its health, meaning that after one priority attack, and rocks, it won't be able to get too many hits in before dying to its own LO, and thats assuming it OHKOs the priority user afterwards. If not, it will most likely die from two rounds of priority, rocks, and Life Orb recoil. I would personally use something else other than Life Orb, like maybe, a yache berry so it can live an HP ice, but missing the 2HKO on Blissey is a shame. I suppose that you have a chance of doing more than 50%, which causes it to have something % of 2HKO after rocks.

    As for Ferrothorn, Gyro Ball hurts if it has an agility up regardless of resistance (bit stale, but I do believe it resists Gyro Ball). It isn't a 3HKO / 2HKO if it manages to do Leech Seed / Protect / Leftovers. Switching out would null your boosts too so I wouldn't try to tangle with Ferrothorn anyways, probably just switch into something like Terrakion rather than stay in for the leech bs. No one uses sdef Foretress (or foretress itself?) so that isn't really a decent calc since it can't do anything back to anything (well, it could 2hko with hp ice, or an explosion, but its too rare, but foretress itself isn't that good so meh, and it doesn't matter iof its a 3HKO considering it has NO reliable recovery. As for Dragonite, just imagine a Choice Banded Extreme Speed laughing at you. Even +0 / non- Life Orb ESpeed will hurt, especially with rocks and LO damage. It seriously isn't safe for Thundy-T to go up against either of your calcs besides Foretress which is plain laughable.


    This set is STILL lethal though, as it is a good late / mid game sweeper on rain teams. Thunder over thunderbolt and discard the Life Orb should get you the same results with Blissey. I just feel, being hard pressed to set up an agility, its weakness to rocks, and priority hatred, that its perfectly fine where it is - in OU.


    Oh, and for Project O., Banded Terrakion in sand can punish non-agility boosted Thundy-T, and if its scarfed, well if sands up it will porbably switch since Thunder can't hit it + sdef boosts. I haven't seen too many scarf terrak last I was on, and Banded Terrak is more common and quite lethal considering a switch out just means it can rape something with CC or SE. I agree that it can't run a NP set UNLESS it's backed up with Agility, in which case its like double-dancing Terrakion, like Dr.Doom suggests, and its quite decent.


    Dracoflare, Agility Thundy-T wihtout Nasty Plot isn't half bad if you like the extra coverage, but I feel the multi-boosting is better since its other coverage attack is FB / Superpower which isn't really worth it if you ask me, considering the plethora of fighting Pokemon in Ou (breloom / virizion / terrakion / lucario / ect.).

    omg rant end bye o:
     
  26. Ashton Michaels

    Ashton Michaels Member

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    Imo Excadrill could be a suspect. Reasons:

    - Rain got even more viable because of Keldeo and Therian-formes
    - Landorus-T + Gliscor got Roost in tandem with Poison Heal
    - Techniloom was released


    That said though, I think there shouldn't be any tests until the metagame settles down (in other words wait around 2 months before retesting stuff), to really get a good view of what and what should not be retested.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  27. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I use it late game, and actually getting the boosts isn't as difficult as you might think since it tends to cause a lot of switches. Come in on something like Jellicent or Jolteon locked into Thunder, and use the appropriate boosting move. You're right about Stealth Rock, that is a pain. That's why it's backed up by my Starmie, who can Rapid Spin away the hazards and paralyse faster threats with Thunder Wave. Being water type, Ground types almost never switch in (apart from Gastrodon). I changed its item to Expert belt, since it gets similar results without the recoil. With Rain support, Thunder is superior. But Thunderbolt is the safer option, as Thunder's just too unreliable outside rain.

    Priority moves aren't really a problem. It resists the most common ones (Mach Punch and Bullet Punch) and is only weak to Ice Shard. And how many OU Pokemon have that? Mamoswine, and the rare Abomasnow.

    Oh and...
    252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Thundurus Therian (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Ice) vs 4HP/0SpDef Volt Absorb Jolteon (Neutral): 90% - 106% (247 - 291 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 43% chance to OHKO. Guaranteed 1HKO after Stealth Rock.
     
  28. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    Well, even if NP hp ice OHKOs, it doesn't outspeed unless it has BOTH agility and nasty plot, and if any pokemon had +2 spe / +2 (s)atk, they will be hard to beat. So the calc is useless since Jolteon is immune to twave from starmie and outspeeds that too.

    As for Mach and Bullet Punch, combined with SR and LO recoil its more than enough to put an end on its parade. Unless Starmie wins the "spin" war (or as I call it), it will have a hard time finding oppurtunity for set up. I would NEVER risk setting up on "locked" thunder Jolteon considering most aren't choiced and can kill you. Jellicent is STALL, so OFC it will work. I recall saying that it would be PERFECT against stall... HO teams won't give you a chance to set up so easily, so what I said still stands. The best way it can set up is IF the opponent predicts a scarfer and you set up while it makes switches according to a scarf set, and thats basically it, which is a gamble. As for TWave Starmie, half of Thundy-T's problems are priorty and anything that resists electric, and hence, also resisting twave. Gastrodon easily beats both. As for ground types never switching in, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Specially Defenisve Hippo doesn't mind coming in, it laughs at +0 HP Ice and can proceed to set up rocks / ice fang / roar. Donphan has sturdy, and can actually do decent damage with Ice Shard. Its more annoying to Thundy-T than you think if the player using Donphan can master predictions. How about Mamoswine? It doesn't care about HP Ice, and sashers can switch in easily too if it fears superpower. Mamo can also set up rocks, so the forced switch out puts more pressure on you considering that staying in is a very risky move as Ice Shard should kill. Sure Gliscor and Lando fear HP Ice, but Lando can still check with scarf. Most ground types are on sand teams, meaning SDef TTar can put a rain on your parade. Rocks, Pursuit, Ice Beam, it really fucks it over. Sand so underrated now its surprising o:

    Anyways, although its a good set, what I said still stands.


    EDIT:

    @Ashton: I agree on this, Exca should retest. I also agree we should wait for the meta to develop a bit more before doing retests. Thanks for bringing this up o:
     
  29. Noctis Lucis Caelum

    Noctis Lucis Caelum New Member

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    I dont even think Exca was broken in the first place just look up the test thread and look at my post you'll understand

    How did Tornadus get Ubered?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2012
  30. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    Maybe its a server glitch, I don't think Tornadus is uber.

    Noctis, we haven't even discussed him yet. Besides, this has already been voted on so there isn't any point saying it wasn't in the first place when it was unanimously voted Uber at that time. HOWEVER, as Mr. Ashton pointed out, it isn't as broken in this metagame and deserves a retest. Other users need to contemplate this, but as Mr. Ashton also pointed out, retest should take place after the new metagame is adjusted.

    And finally, whenever referring to an older post, its nice for the person to link the post in question in their post. Just a tip for next time, since I'm going to have to look up that post your referring too (I never believed Exca was broken either - besides the point though).
     
  31. rtyk1

    rtyk1 New Member

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    How is Techniloom not in the lists? Sheer power with Bullet Seed and Mach Punch tears almost the entire metagame, and you still have to deal with Spore to boot
     
  32. Emperor PPP

    Emperor PPP PKMNPurePower

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    Breloom gets horrible ccoverage with Grass/Fighting... Amoongus counters it hard for one - and anything using priority
    Techniloom has too many checks and counters:
    Amoongus
    Tornadus/T
    Gengar
    Any poison type
    Anything ghost that outspeeds it
    Anything that resists fighting and outspeeds it

    Off the top of my head, anyway
     
  33. Zomaldape

    Zomaldape Now Known as "Raiju-R"

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    Kyurem-B being retested for OU is interesting I'm am very interested on kyurem-b possible presence in OU. While its attack is Sky high like many of you have said its lacks workable coverage with its attack the only viable moves to use is outrage and fusion bolt. Stone edge isn't really reliable,Zen headbutt is horrible,iron head I see no use at all,Freeze shock would work it didn't have a one turn charge and you wouldn't want to run Power herb all the time just for this move,shadow call is bleh,Rock smash,Payback,and LOL fly are all mediocre options for kyurem-B.Special attack is much more workable though and kyurem-B special attack isn't bad and does have some impressive moves to use with it such as earth power,focus blast,Draco meteor,and ice beam.

    On the opposite end however I find not that much arguments for kyurem-B to stay in ubers since what Ive have see it done in ubers is just being a scarfer and its countered easily by ferrothorn.

    I will be waiting to see if kyurem-B will be OU or not
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  34. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Kyurem-B could work in OU, since it doesn't have the moves to abuse that mighty Attack stat. Icicle Crash? No doesn't get that. Ice Punch? No. Ice Shard? Again, no. Seriously GameFreak, what were you thinking? All the Tao Trio need movepool upgrades: Reshiram needs Calm Mind and Grass Knot (a fair few Fire types get Grass Knot), Zekrom needs Bulk Up and Earthquake, Kyurem-B needs Bulk Up, Ice Shard and Icicle Crash.

    Ferrothron stops Kyurem-B dead, Choice Band Scizor and Techniloom can both 1HKO it with Bullet Punch and Mach Punch respectively after Stealth Rock damage and OU already has several amazing Dragons to give it competition: Haxorus, Salamence, Dragonite, Hydreigon, and the Eon Twins. So...yeah. Let's try it in OU. It won't be any more disastrous than when Thundurus was retested there.
     
  35. AustinXhensL

    AustinXhensL Member

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    Breloom also gets a great coverage move in stone edge, i know its not common, but a cb set is viable as it then become a faster version of scizor without u-turn/dragon resist, and breloom can also run a sub set to nullify getting outsped because things breloom can safely come in on are kinda short and usually has to come in after a death anyway. Ferrothorn/Jellicent/perishtoed/chansey/blissey/umbreon(dont knock it till you try it). set up a sub on the switch and then use the proper coverage move(hp ice is also a viable coverage move imo) as well as the bulk up drain punch et being viable with either technician OR poison heal. not saying breloom is broken, but it has sets other then spore/sd/bulletseed/mach punch that arent entirely uncommon or useless.
     
  36. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    I'm probably going to get a whole bunch of flack for this, but I think Rain as a whole might be broken in OU now.
    People are saying that things like Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, Starmie, etc. are all extremely powerfu, verging on broken (for the former two) alone, but when they can get get together with boosted STAB moves (Being able to use hurricane and Thunder along with boosted Water-type moves), they can really mess up most of the tier, with only things like blissey and Chansey being able to withstand the special attacks (they get 2HKO'd by a Nasty Plot Focus Blast from Thundurus-T anyway). I'm not sure if its just me, but I think Rain could do with a test.
     
  37. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    Kyruem-B: Lets not retest anything first until the meta develops a little more, we're still getting used to the genies for crying out loud.
    Rain: I'm not going to comment. If it truly DOES get suspected I will, but tbh its not.
    Breloom: Not broken
    Keldeo: Meh, I don't find this thing broken either
    Ammongus: Get your ugly ass out of OU :< Not broken
     
  38. Firer

    Firer Owner

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    i dont know if this fits in this thread but i suggest giving Garchomp another chance

    1. his dw ability got released so you can ban just sand veil

    2. with the new bw threaths rain is even more used then before and sand struggles a bit the likes of keldeo and focus blast spam. Also ice movies and mamo get very common cause of the genies so I dont see it being op.


    EDIT: oh also... its a waste of such a good poke to put him in uber. Garchomp is good but srs... he kinda sucks in ubers :(
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2012
  39. Forum Name

    Forum Name Still unknown

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    Garchomp however does have its niche in 102 base Speed, outspeeding every Dragon bar Eon twins, so with a Choice Scarf it makes excellent revenge killer. Yache Berrz fucks up Mamoswine and other Ice Shard users, while Salac Berry can be used in tandem with Substitute (and Sand Veil as well) to reach 499 speed and outspeed the whole tier.

    While we are at it, why don't we just retest Deoxys-S? We're suggensting the retest of the mons with 170 Atk, and that 95 SAtk isn't broken at all. All it has it's that 180 Spd, which can be ignored with very common priority bar Mach Punch.
     
  40. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    not sure if sarcastic. but they're not related even a little bit. Deoxys-S is highly versatile, not frail at all, and provides an insane amount of support and utility to a team that makes a lot of the tier pretty useless. it's got nothing to do with it "having a high stat", but the ridiculous speed certainly aids it in providing the support+utility.
     
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