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[BW2 NU] The Orbs

Discussion in 'Rate My Team' started by The Dark Master, Aug 5, 2012.

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  1. The Dark Master

    The Dark Master Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][/HIDE]

    I'm one of those people who hate some of the most played tiers (OU and Ubers). This team is NU, and is based around the combination of Ninjask and Marowak; they work amazingly together, and usually 6-0 opposing teams with ease.

    [​IMG] @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 222 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Hone Claws
    - Protect
    - Baton Pass
    - X-Scissor

    NINJA. Ninjask's job is simple: Baton Passing. Hone Claws boosts Attack and Accuracy for Marowak. I'll explain the choice over Swords Dance later. After that, the Focus Sash keeps me alive, but I can't take another hit. So I Protect for one last Speed Boost. I then Pass to Wak. X-Scissor can damage, and sometimes KO, phazers.
    The EV spread... is interesting, but has it's purpose. The Defense EVs give me 1 less Defense than SDef, messing with special download users. I always do that (if their defenses are close/even), even in tiers without download users. Like NU. Max attack and Adamant are for X-Scissor, and HP EVs are to let it live longer (because it's obviously going to live two hits...).
    Threats are priority users, phazers and hazers. Nothing specific.
    No changes. Other than maybe EVs.


    [​IMG] @ Thick Club
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bonemerang
    - Stone Edge
    - Double-Edge
    - ThunderPunch

    When the Ninja Passes... it's usually the end of the game. I originally used EdgeQuake on this, but Stone Edge had too low accuracy. So Ninjask replaced Swords Dance with Hone Claws. As I had an accuracy boost, I could then go with Bonemerang (to break anyone Subbing on Ninjask) over Earthquake, as they had the same Power. Double-Edge hits hard on Torterra and is more powerful than SE, and has no recoil due to Rock Head. ThunderPunch hits Waters hard (SE hits Flyers). Thick Club... is the only reason to use Marowak over other BP Recievers. It increases it's attack to insane levels.
    EVs are simple: 252 EVs and +2 boost from Ninja outspeeds 252+ base 65s with a +1 boost or Choice Scarf (Such as the common threat Emboar after Flame Charge or when scarfed). Max Attack... is for POWER. The 4 remaining EVs could go anywhere, and don't really matter too much. I put them in its weaker defense stat.
    Threats... TORTERRA. The most common one (taken from the usage stats) takes 76.4%-89.8% and can OHKO with Wood Hammer, doing 105.0%-123.8%. Most other things are OHKOed easily. Phazers/Hazers/Priority can also hurt, but I have taken a Toxic Boost Zangoose Quick Attack AND a Samurott Aqua Jet in the same battle before. Without healing. The other obvious threat is Quagsire, something which I have always, and probably will always, hate. Unaware and Recover, as well as STAB Scald/Waterfall.
    If you can think of a way to deal with Quag then please say, otherwise no changes.


    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Encore
    - Swagger
    - Foul Play
    - Yawn

    LOL. This thing's epic. Enough said.
    But this thread'll get locked if I don't make this description long enough. Encore can mess with Set Up sweepers/Substituters, and Priority from Prankster on it just makes things better. Swagger confuses, and allows Foul Play to do more damage. While they're damaging themselves. I don't usually Swagger on physical attackers, but just Foul Play them without letting them get TOO threatening. I can damage them enough already. Swagger is mainly for things that don't benefit from them. Prankster Yawn is, I think, the only Priority Sleep move in the entire game. I'm thinking Taunt as a replacement, and you'll probably all say that's better. But it can't deal with set up sweepers once they've already set up. Leftovers keeps me alive for longer.
    EVs are for bulk and fast Foul Playing.
    The main threats are described above; Physical attackers can OHKO me easily. Especially Pinsir and Emboar. Things that resist Foul Play can survive several hits, and can KO me before I KO them.
    Possible item change.


    [​IMG] @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Flare Boost
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Trick
    - Destiny Bond

    The first Orb holder. This is amazing; Flame Orb activated Flare Boost, increasing my speed. This lets me do a fast Trick to give the Orb to something, usually a physical attacker, that either doesn't like burns or hates losing their item. Shadow Ball and HP Fighting have perfect coverage (until someone decides to make a Normal/Ghost type), so are obviously good moves (especially with STAB Shadow Ball). A fast Destiny Bond can be really useful, watching the opponent kill themselves. Unfortunately, it doesn't KO the opponent if you die from your burn.
    EVs are simple again; Max SAtk for damage and Speed for... speed. Last EVs in the lowest defense.
    Threats... Special walls. Obviously. Whilst this is, like Zangoose, immune to status (so making opposing Ammonguss near-useless), It is vulnerable on the first turn out. A Thunder Wave can ruin this. Also hates stalling and Tricking Life Orbs, as the extra damage can sometimes prove too much for it.
    Possible change for Destiny Bond.


    [​IMG] @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Toxic Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Facade
    - Close Combat
    - Night Slash
    - Quick Attack

    The second Orb holder. While not the fastest thing in the world, It's powerful. Quick Attack is for some much needed STAB priority. Facade is insane, going from Base 70 Power to 315 including Ability, STAB and effect. Night Slash and Close Combat are there for two reasons: Firstly, hitting Ghosts and Rock/Steels that resist your STAB moves. Secondly, they have perfect coverage together (Heracross and Toxicroak aren't legal in NU and you will NEVER see Croagunk in NU, or even in NEU. Trust me). Toxic Orb activates Toxic Boost and Facade.
    EVs are for Speed and Power (as usual). Last 4 EVs... have been explained in previous descriptions. For Download.
    Threats are anything that takes Physical hits well, such as Torkoal and Torterra. Anything that can keep it in hurts it more and more, as well as people who switch unpredictably to things that resist/are immune to the move I use that turn.
    After realising that Toxic Boost increases attack by 1.5x rather than the 2x I had first though of when I made the team, I thought a Guts replacement, such as Raticate or Ursaring. Please give your suggestions as to which one of the three is better.


    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Simple
    EVs: 216 HP / 68 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Stored Power
    - Air Slash
    - Shadow Ball

    This thing is epic. Calm Mind doubles your SAtk and SDef, And boost Stored Power's... power. From 20 to 200. That's 10 times the damage. And it hurts. Air Slash is your next best STAB move, and Shadow Ball is for coverage. You already know what Leftovers do, and Simple is for a MASSIVE Calm Mind boost.
    EVs... I did something I don't usually do and take things from websites. This EV spread was from the usage stats, and I'm thinking of moving some HP EVs to maximize Speed, letting me outspeed the rare but threatening Sturdy SS Carracosta. After one Smash, it hits 358 speed. At max speed, Swoobat hits 359.
    Threats are, as mentioned just now, Carracosta. Unless I give it some more speed. Actually, most powerful Sashers give this pain. And once again... Quagsire. It's ****ing annoying.
    One possible change is Life Orb over Leftovers, but I usually take a hit setting up.



    Importable:

    Ninjask (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 222 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Hone Claws
    - Protect
    - Baton Pass
    - X-Scissor

    Marowak (F) @ Thick Club
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bonemerang
    - Stone Edge
    - Double-Edge
    - ThunderPunch

    Liepard (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Encore
    - Swagger
    - Foul Play
    - Yawn

    Drifblim (M) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Flare Boost
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Trick
    - Destiny Bond

    Zangoose (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Toxic Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Facade
    - Close Combat
    - Night Slash
    - Quick Attack

    Swoobat (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Simple
    EVs: 216 HP / 68 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Stored Power
    - Air Slash
    - Shadow Ball[/HIDE]
     
  2. Emperor PPP

    Emperor PPP PKMNPurePower

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    Okay then, this is a pretty interesting team but it's a bit situational (b/c baton pass) anyway...
    This team looks quite weak Samurott, how do you deal with it?
    In fact, a lot of water types put huge dents in this team: Crawdaunt can OHKO your whole team if it's running brick break and dual STAB
    Skuntank is a bit of a pain to this team, but to avoid that you basically have to get rid of 2 pokemon (which you shouldn't do)
    tbh I think Liepard could abuse a mental herb, since taunt users look like they'll have a great time against this team

    Emboar is another threat to this team, how do you deal with it without relying on baton passing
    As you said Quagsire is a huge defensive threat to this team since all your sweepers have to set up

    I think an Exeggutor could help you fix that last problem as it abuses harvest + lum berry and resists Quagsire's dual STAB

    Nice team though
     
  3. The Dark Master

    The Dark Master Member

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    I did consider Exeggutor when making the team; what should I replace though?
    And what's better, Mental Herb or Taunt on Liepard?

    Samurott is dealt with by Liepard, and I haven't seen many Crawdaunt. I think Exeggutor could probably deal with it, but that brings me back to the 'what to replace?' question. And Skuntank and Emboar are both weak to ground; any suggestions for them? Even it Ninjask dies (I've had a few Torkoal Lava plume burns on 1 HP), Marowak can usually deal with them. But if that's gone as well, do you know any good EQ users that aren't weak to water? Maybe Scarfed Pinsir?

    Sorry for all the questions...
     
  4. Emperor PPP

    Emperor PPP PKMNPurePower

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    Honestly your probably better with taunt, but you were looking to replace lefties so mental herb is usable, if you were to use Exeggutor then I would replace Swoobat because psychic for psychic

    Lum berry Samurott can counter Liepard

    Sorry about the poor rate, I'm not too great at NU
     
  5. The Dark Master

    The Dark Master Member

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    About the Liepard-Samurott thing, I was thinking Special ones were messed up by swagger; even if they hold a lum berry I just Swagger again. Lum berries aren't very common on them, this is from the usage stats:

    1 | Life Orb | 60.88 %
    2 | Leftovers | 14.77 %
    3 | Lum Berry | 11.78 %

    If the physical one uses swords dance, it's encore and foul play time. If they go straight to megahorn... that's the only threat to liepard. I'll hope for a miss/survive and encore, followed by a Ninjask switch. and for the item... Maybe BlackGlasses/Life Orb if I run taunt? And thank you for the help.


    For Exeggutor, would a Lum berry rest set be good? It would not only be hard to KO but would also be great for absorbing status. However... still the Skuntank/Emboar problem. It's weak to Dark, Poison and Fire. That's three out of 4 of their STABs. The best Earthquake users are probably Sawk and Pinsir. Both have the same speed and attack, and Pinsir gets moxie. However, it is weak to Emboar's fire moves and doesn't get Sawk's Sturdy-Scarf-STAB-Reversal combo. I was thinking Armaldo as it can Spin hazards for Ninjask as well, meaning it doesn't have to switch in on SRers as they get the rocks up (not good as many can also Phaze). But it's not very good offensively, with not many moves despite have the same attack as Pinsir and Sawk. It also isn't as fast. And it doesn't get Close Combat to deal with Crawdaunt. But it can spin, which the other two can't do. However, none can really deal with Samurott as much as Exeggutor. And it's not a poor rate; only one other person has said something. Thank you for the help.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2012
  6. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto if your world falls apart, i'd start a riot

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    Flare boost increase your SAtk by 1.5 not speed. Maybe give Swoobat Heatwave for Steels?
     
  7. The Dark Master

    The Dark Master Member

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    **** got that wrong as well. Time to get timid and lose destiny bond (less useful with low speed)
     
  8. Lincoln22

    Lincoln22 New Member

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    ^Or use flight gem acrobatics + dbond with unburden, which is two free kills if played right. About the rest of the team, Swords dance > hone claws on Ninjask, because power is greater than a 20% accuracy boost. Besides those this team looks good, it seems as if it would need steady offensive pressure to work, but if you could maintain that, 75% of the time you'll get a sucker marowak/swoobat sweep
     
  9. The Dark Master

    The Dark Master Member

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    I was thinking that, but it kinda ruined the point of the team. It could work though... shame about the power loss. And also, with no SR up, Ninjask can protect+pass a Speed Boost to either of the orb holders. And the misses have cost me games; the power from +1 is enough. Unless I see Torterra, but that's not very common.
     
  10. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Hello I see you have a pretty good team with Ninjask and Marowak. Here are some suggestions I have thought of while reading the RMT:
    1. Ninjask's main problem are Rhydon, Golem and Armaldo. Those three are very common leads in the NU metagame and one move that makes them a problem for Ninjask is Rock Blast. Ninjask has x4 weakness to Rock type (one proof is the damage it gets from Stealth Rock). So a suggestion i can give you is to place Squirtle over Drifblim or Liepard. Squirtle is a Rapid Spinner and a water type at the same time. How does that help? Squirtle can spin away rocks. He can also take on rock moves thrown at Ninjask. It also defeats Rhydon, Golem and Armaldo with ease.

    2. The main weakness of your team is Rock types and/or Stealth Rocks. The only pokemon that can take Rock moves with ease in your team is Marowak which isnt that bulky and fast with only 60 base Hp. And the answer for that problem is Squirtle (again) I hope you can fix/patch up that weakness.

    The other Pokemon on your team (especially those orb-mons) are pretty standard. That is my rate. CYA around!
     
  11. kk420

    kk420 Ladies and gentlemen, man

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    I would suggest running fire punch over thunder punch on marowak, except fully physical defensive Wartortle (which you dont see much anyway) is ohko'd by bonemerang (at + 1 even wartortle goes down) and would deal with your torterra problem.

    I would suggest Exegg over Swoobat as well since you already run three pokemon that need at least one turn to come to full power, also you could make exegg a speed boost receiver as well (in that case i would suggest sitrus sub set to deal with skuntank)

    Weezing could pose a threat as well, especially when its sent out against Ninjask, as you dont run sub, thus another reason to make exegg a speed boost receiver ( i know you can switch into drifblim in expectation of the wow, but giving away a turn is never a good idea, drifblim hates the 30% sludge bomb poison, and the opponent can easily switch into something that walls drifblim.

    Oh and exegg would deal with quagsire qith ease
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  12. The Dark Master

    The Dark Master Member

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  13. OriginalLuigy

    OriginalLuigy Formerly Luigypwns

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    Woah woah WOAH! I knew people had started using my Ninjask + Marowak set but I didn't know that it was this popular :3(and yes I was the one that started the Ninjask + Marowak BP thing, there was a point when I laddered like crazy and after a while I started facing people that were trying to use it, mostly people I had faced before). Anyway I didn't bother reading all of the posts above me so I don't know if anyone suggested this but GET A WALL. You're not gonna get anywhere without one, try getting a wall that counters Cinccino because it will give this team hell. Also try getting more Pokemon that resist the predicted moves such as Samurott, I suggest getting a modest special Sammy with Hydro pump because people will expect it to be physical but you can Hydro pump them back with increased accuracy. Also replace Thunderpunch with substitute on Marowak, it'll allow it to take one hit and if predicted right allow you to get a free sub up on a Sucker punch user.

    Also use Armaldo as a spinner because it can be bulky and still hit back hard. You can also BP to it if you're unable to BP to Marowak(you're entire team should be able to recieve a BP from Ninjask and hit the opponent hard). Also use Swords dance over Hone claws because the power boost is needed, especially with all of those walls running around. I suggest maybe getting a speedy knock off user to take care of all of those eviolite users such as Wartortle, Tangela, etc. And Emboar would be a much needed Pokemon in this team because it can take a predicted Ice beam or Rock blast and still sweep your opponents team(don't scarf or band it).

    I will edit this thread this weekend with my Youtube video on how to use this team effectivevly(I've been meaning to upload it for a while but I've been putting it off :/ but I'll do it this weekend). This team probably won't be effective anymore because everyone can see it now >.< but with the right teambuilding you can still use it, just beware Skill Link Cinccino.
     
  14. Trainer_Red

    Trainer_Red aka Novᴀ =)

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    Guts only boosts attack by 1.5, same as Toxic Boost.
     
  15. The Dark Master

    The Dark Master Member

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    I know. And why comment? This thread is old, and I've moved on to using another team now.
     
  16. Trainer_Red

    Trainer_Red aka Novᴀ =)

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    Well, suggested from your description, you never knew Guts and Toxic Boost did the same thing, you thought Guts was x2, so I just thought I would share you some advice lol
     
  17. Jewelwriter

    Jewelwriter Magician

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    Looking over...

    I see your team is a good bit powerful...though Zangoose and Liepard are a bit of a clear bulleye for a fighting type if your ghost falls but you got a good balance. I could ask if you do want two fighting weaknesses (no offense) I can offer this to you.

    Mythbuster (Gigalith) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 236 Atk / 16 Def / 16 SDef / 240 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Explosion
    - Heavy Slam
    - Stone Edge
    - Bulldoze

    It'd be at least funny to try to watch your opponent wonder how the world is a rock quick. Though when you don't want it then you can just give him the treatment of Buster, blow him up.
     
  18. The Dark Master

    The Dark Master Member

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    Even that isn't fast... it only hits 240.
    2 fighting weakness, 1 immunity and 2 more resistances. I could still manage fighting types even after drifblim's down.

    And I've said this a few times now, PLEASE STOP SAYING THINGS ABOUT THIS TEAM. I don't use it any more.
     
  19. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Locking this now then as its obvious you don't want this bumped any further. You can pm though if you'd like it unlocked.
     
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