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[HGSS] Another of Sleuth's ramblings...

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Sleuth, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Hihi all!

    Hope everybody has had a cracking summer. I'm just posting because I feel like (hopefully) sparking a debate of sorts; after all, arguments are food for the mind. Basically, I've recently been trying to elevate UU and NU Pokemon to OU status by finding new and interesting sets to utilize. My results so far have been good; I've found an interesting niche for Tangrowth, which I may discuss later, and God knows how many teams I've swept with Agility Kingler. However, I've also been experimenting with Pokemon that were once OU, namely trying to perfect a CM Alakazam sweep.

    My question is this; which Pokemon, which was once in another tier, in your opinion, deserves to regain its status? Any reason will do, outside of 'cause its awesome', and any Pokemon is valid, providing they were once in a different tier. You can move up or down tiers (e.g. Slaking to OU, Kingdra to UU, etc). Please leave a response below.

    Thanks for reading, and happy holidays!
     
  2. Gilad

    Gilad ¯\(°_°)/¯

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    I think Cresslia deserves to return into the OU, after she moved into the BL tier, nobody used her anymore. (it's not unbeatable, toxic screws her).

    Also Porygon Z into Overused again, he's too strong for BL. also he's not a huge problem, scarfed quick fighting guy with cc would OHKO him.
     
  3. Gtfo

    Gtfo blinded

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    As you said i think alakazam is too powerful in UU, a specs set can rape teams (like mine). Also i find that Rhyperior is kinda broken too in uu, with the rock polish set and a Life Orb, i dont recall how many teams i swept with it.
     
  4. Platinum

    Platinum ~tilde~

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    I think Cresselia deserves to be OU, like Gilad said. Her defenses are godly, and not many things in OU can OHKO her. The only reason she dropped out, imo, is just because the top used ones can beat her comfortably.

    And I agree with you, Gtfo, Alakazam should not be UU, It can KO almost all of UU, and the things which can survive a hit from it can be eliminated with Trick. ChoiceTomb is the most possible counter for it though, but isn't it what we call centralize.. ?

    I think Rhyperior is not that broken though, he has counters in UU, namely bulky Waters, Rotom, Weezing, Tangrowth, and he is just too slow before a RP, and the RP one doesn't posses enough firepower to muscle through the UU walls :)
     
  5. AndyRease

    AndyRease Member

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    I have yet to try him out as I never liked playing with him, but with Mence gone and seeing as there is less scizors around I think SD Heracross is worthy of mentioning here. With it's jolly nature it outspeed most of the would be counter which ran more speed when he was more popular, like Zapdos and the other flyers. Rotom-h and Scizor is still being some pains to take on as you should run Stone Edge for the flyers, but even then +2 Stone Edge does 66.8% - 78.6% to Rotom-h and Scizor can be taken on by Magnezone if you really hate the guy.

    Well actually Heracross is OU, but not as OU as he was in pre platinum DP. Most teams are not ready for him and he can work out as an early game sweeper who punches big holes for your main late game sweeper, or function as a deadly late game sweeper when scarfers and counters are gone.

    I still prefer Infernape over Heracross for both of these functions though he doesn't hit as hard.

    The scarfer is pretty nifty though, as it outspeeds everything Rotom-As except the Rotoms itself as they have 1 more base speed and ties with +1 85's. Most importantly it outspeeds +1 Gyarados which makes for a funny check.

    EDIT: Totally forgot a star player. Shaymin really rocks OU up. I am using it more and more, and really, after Mence left there are few teams prepared for the LO 3 attacks+Rest set. However I am having a bit of trouble making it as effective as I know it can be. Are there anyone who have more and better experiences with Shaymin than me who can testify for it deserving OU status?

    EDITEDIT: Also while I don't think he deserves OU status in any way RP Aggron is really good in OU. With Tyranitar support (some kind of mixed lure is the way to go) It really decimates everything with Head Smash. It hits even harder than EQ even when 2x resisted.

    GILADIT: BL isn't a tier man :/
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  6. Stofil

    Stofil Hello Miss Galaxy

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    Agreed on Shaymin, with a specs-set it can even muscle past Blissey with a little bit of luck. I haven't tried a rest+3 attacks set though, might use that in my next OU-team and see how it works.

    As for Alakazam, I really don't think specs-sets are that dangerous due to how much priority exists in the metagame. The substitute set or the countersash lead however, feel quite overpowering.
     
  7. Gtfo

    Gtfo blinded

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    Well, Platinum it's true that Rhyperior has counters in UU, but it is also true that he is a late game sweeper, i normally bring him for last on the field. As for the speed it reaches 392i think after a rock polish, wich isnt that bad outspeeding pretty much all that isnt scarf.
     
  8. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    If something is in BL, for the most part, it's OU. It can't be used in UU to begin with.

    Anyway, I really think Charizard should be moved up to at least UU; it just rapes in NU. SpecsZard annihilates a ton of pokemon with Air Slash and Fire Blast(god forbid Blaze activates)+filler moves, and it's ridiculously easy to set up physical sets with proper team support. Not to mention Rapid Spins are so much easier to accomplish in NU. It was BL in ADV/3rd gen.
     
  9. Platinum

    Platinum ~tilde~

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    Yea Shaymin is awesome, I agree ^^ I have tried ScarfMin, SpecsMin, SubseedMin, and LOMin, it's my favorite Pokemon nonetheless :D

    Scarfmin is a good revenge killer imo, it lacks the Pursuit weakness that discourages Celebi to go for the same set, it outspeeds everything slower than +1 base 100, and it is bulkier than Flygon, although fewer resistances can be frusfrating sometimes. Specsmin, on the other hand, is quite hard to ultilize, sure it can hit hard, but you have to predict perfectly to dish out some damages, it's too easy too be walled, so I think it's not as effective as it should be. SubseedMin is annoying, however I don't see much different between Shaymin and Celebi in this aspect, as both can do almost the same thing. And finally, LOMin is a beast, tbh, with Seed Flare/Earth Power/HP Fire, pretty much any team without Blissey, Snorlax, or Dragonite has some troubles against this Shaymin.

    So far, I can see that LOMin > ScarfMin > Subseed > SpecsMin imo. Conclusion: Shaymin should be OU.
     
  10. Stofil

    Stofil Hello Miss Galaxy

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    True Platinum, specsmin is all about prediction and is best saved for lategame where you know what someone might switch in. Even then, specs flare hits everything except possibly Heatran stupidly hard.
     
  11. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Member

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    Shaymin is a beast. It will be OU, its usage is rising dramatically.

    Other than Shaymin, I don't really think anything else should be used significantly more in OU, with the exception of Uxie (it's like a Cress with Stealth Rock and U-Turn). Umbreon definitely doesn't belong up there and I want it back so bad... It's like Vaporeon and Snorlax had an evil cat baby.
     
  12. Ginku

    Ginku Banned

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    Agreed, (LO) shaymin is a beast, and should definitely (ummm wait no it shouldnt, i dont want to face it)be OU, especially with natural rest.

    also, talking about UU/OU shifts, Heracross and smeargle will both drop to UU if they dont rise (or roese, the statistics are from july) up in usage again btw, if i remember the threshold (3,5% i think) correctly, which will shke up for a few minutes and then result in 2 bans.
     
  13. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Juggler
    Jynx. I remember it was BL back in the day, and for good reason; With Lovely Kiss and amazing STAB with Ice Beam and Psychic, along with Calm Mind, it was very strong. Now it's even stronger, with Nasty Plot allowing it to sweep after one turn. The biggest faults I find with it are 25% damage upon SR switchin, and it's not quite fast enough to throw around its hefty power.

    I would agree with Charizard, but really, unless it can get in on a weak support user like leadGligar, it can't set up perfectly. While Spinning is easier in NU than in OU(no Rotom to punch you in the face), Dusclops will use Will-o-wisp on Hitmonchan, Sandslash and Armaldo, while Torkoal can't do anything to it anyway. If you're dedicated enough to keeping those rocks up, Charizard is no problem for you.
     
  14. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Platinum, you probably haven't fought enough Rhyperiors with proper team support. With Triple spikes and SR up, it devastates.
     
  15. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    I can't think of any mediocre sweepers that don't devastate with triple spikes and SR. that's between 25% and 50% on most Pokemon, so anything neutral will likely OHKO.
     
  16. Platinum

    Platinum ~tilde~

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    True, SR limits Charizard's potential a lot, I have to use Foresight Hitmonchan and one more spinner to support the lizard. And also, Charizard can switch in vs wide range of support Pokemon, most Grounds (SR setting up) and Ghosts (blocking spin) are its chances to switch in. While BellyZard is its most famous set, the special attacker with LO and Roost and the Specs set are equally dangerous (and sometimes more, due to not instantly losing half of its health).

    Actually, Torkoal is capable of beating Dusclops, becasue most Dusclops are invested in Def instead of Spdef.