Guest, PO has ceased our separate tiering and adopted Smogon tiers for SM. More information and updates here.
Discussion in 'Review' started by Li Q. Assir, Sep 15, 2012.
I am still standing by what I said before and Reject  this theme.
this is the theme I hate the most :s
Actually, Daypix is more annoying imo.
But... back on topic... yeah... I don't think Vepix is going to make the cut.
Hmm... Castle is going on a nice way. Can someone think in any update to be made to Vepix to make it approved???
hey look controversy
One could say that Vepix is a mindless noobkiller or whatever you want to call it. I disagree with this; every role being a kill role certainly gives off that impression. But there is some strategy behind it. Being able to determine your priority, being able to play the numbers game in order to determine whether you should kill one night or not, being able to determine who is lying about where they fall on the priority list. It's not a traditional mafia game by any stretch of the imagination, but to call it a mindless noobkiller is oversimplifying the theme.
Therefore, Approve . Not that this will end up on the channel with the number of rejects already in place, but just in case.
One never knows... it had 5 approvals before the reject wagon to come up. I agree with your points (which were the points that people that approved it said), unfortunately I can't approve a theme that I submited... wait, I'm not the author, can I approve it???
I believe that as long as you are not the author you are able to accept it. I believe this has happened before. I believe clanwar was accepted by the person who posted it. They did bold approve on the thread.
There is a strategy in typing /kill [name]? OMG I didn't know that!
Wow. I'm shocked. Well, no. Not surprised, not really.
Now, we've proven that sentimentality and nostalgia are more important to the QC. I am disappointed in this. I thought we'd be focusing on merit. Changing the nature of the channel. Making a new Mafia. We're hypocrites now, and I hope you enjoy it. I will be speaking to Professor Oak and BebbZ in the hopes of making an executive decision.
I haven't really looked at QC properly in a while honestly so if I'm mistaken about this, then sorry, but I decided to look here due to this being brought up elsewhere. But err, you realise this hasn't been accepted right? Your tone seemed to imply otherwise. But I'm just gonna quote this:
From my count in this thread there's 6 approvals and 5 rejects, which when I went to school (which admittedly was a while ago, but I assume maths hasn't changed), equals only 1 approval which means it still needs another 5 :x
Hey, thanks for reading my post and giving an insightful response to it!
@Steel, with the number of rejects in place this isn't going through. My post and approval were more of a me getting my opinion across kind of thing. And honestly I don't see how this makes us hypocrites or anything of the sort.
@Steel, I don't get exactly why we are being hypocrites. The approvals have their justification and so do the rejections. This theme is dividing QC's opinions, and I think this is where QC achieved the purpose of its existence. We are here to discuss why some theme should or not be approved. If a theme got 100% of approval, excellent. If QC got divided by some reason, the theme needs more discussing and the final word goes to the democracy, 12 approvals x 6 rejections, am I right? Some people think this theme is not good? Fine, reject it. Others think that it has some future? Accept it, then. Just because some QC think it shouldn't be approved, it means it must not, simply because other thinks it's fine to be accepted.
Hey, let's make a QC, but because I don't like a theme we've approved, EXECUTIVE DECISION POWERZ ACTIVATE!!1!111
I'm sorry, but that is all I could convey from that post =/
You said you picked only the best, why not let them do their jobs?
And you know Oak has the same viewpoint, so essentially, you want someone to back you up.
I don't you get the point?
Mafia is about strategy, typing /kill [name] TOTALLY involves strategy (not)
The QC was made to avoid having no-brainer themes (noob kill themes). If Vepix gets approved then, as Oak said, it would send a signal to other people saying "themes without strategy is allowed here". We don't what such thing to occur again, do we?
Why are you so sure that this will get approved?
Reject I have been staying out of this thread because it had so many replies, but I figured I might as well finally give my 2 cents.
In my opinion, Vepix is a theme with so little strategy and so much luck that a five year old could play it and have a decent chance of winning as long as they could type properly. That is my honest opinion is not mafia. Mafia is a game of suspicion, deception, strategy, and I will admit a little luck. With vepix you throw out the first three things I said and throw a giant spotlight on luck.
So with these thoughts in mind, I can never accept vepix as a mafia theme as I do not see it as mafia.
It's not really sentimentality and nostalgia, no. Otherwise SSBB+ and Pokemon would have been accepted in a heartbeat. Which they weren't. It is more so Vepix's structure and simplicity. Some think it's stupid and a massive killfest (which it is), others agree with said sentiments but also believe that it is innovative enough to deserve a spot on the server. I fall into this latter camp, as even if it is stupid, its fun and mindless and wouldn't really hurt the server imo.
The problem is that QC is still divided on what exactly constitutes a mafia theme. Does it have revolve around strategy and teamwork to be legitimate, or can it merely be unique and well coded? We could argue around this forever and never reach a consensus, because of how subjective it is. Take Space Invaders, for example- uber simple, great concept, and unique. Accepted rather quickly. How about Minesweeper? The classic no frills yet fun game with some strategy in its carefully thought out balance between two roles. It's stuck in review hell. Vepix is probably the best (or worst) example of this. As evidenced by the equal amount of approvals and rejects, you either hate it, or you love it.
No one's a hypocrite. Everyone's just has their own view of how "different" themes like this should be handled.
This, quite simply put is a bad theme. There is no strategy involved (seriously you have to determine your priority? how is that strategy at all?????), and it is entirely based around luck. The only arguments for it are that it has "strategy" and "people like it." Unfortunately there is no strategy. Let's be honest, it doesn't teach people jack squat about priority, and most people, if not everyone, aren't even trying to find their priority. They kill who they want. It really isn't oversimplifying when people say it's a mindless noobkiller.
Obviously, people like certain themes but does that mean we should lower our standards to allow through a sub-par theme? Absolutely not. If a large majority of people got together saying they wanted to bring Kyogre down to OU, would the OU leaders appeal to the majority? I don't think so. I realize this is an imperfect analogy, but it's the best I can think of atm. The whole point of the QC process is to put through the best themes. This process is to improve the quality of themes. We shouldn't undermine that process just because a large amout of people like the theme.
What is "innovative" about this theme? Why is this different from Daypix and other "noobkillers" in general?
A theme in my opinion should be somewhat balanced (nearly equal chance for all sides to win), require some degree of strategy and skill (at least imo to the point where a player can actively impact a game), and be fun. That to me is what a theme, hell any game in general, should be. If I wanted to play a game based around luck, I'd go play Pokemon, not mafia.
Hope I made sense.
I'ts odd how the flood of rejections came after oak rejected *cough* sheep *cough cough* suck ups *cough*
anyways, the reasons against vepix are mainly that it is not skill based
my response: who gives a fuck?
it can be a bit of fun and thats what mafia is for
as to why castle can be rejected and this approved is that too many of these themes can flood mafia and ruin it, one or two can be beneficial as a break from the monotony of the standard themes (bg on me, prs pm, etc.)[/HIDE]
As we currently have 7 approvals and 6 rejects, with 22 QC Members, 13 have already put in their approval/rejection, but we only have 1 approval currently. In the worst case scenario, if ALL the QCs made their decision...
We need 5 more approvals for this theme. With 9 QC members left, we can afford 2 rejects left.
(If I'm wrong, tell me please.)
Seems like that is right...
So what if it's a noobkiller? IMO, the QC should strive for good themes, regardless of their status as "true mafia" or "noobkiller". And Vepix is most likely the best no-mafia noobkiller theme.
So you think "If we accept Vepix, people will think it's OK to submit noobkillers"? Tell them only good noobkillers are accepted, and set the standard for those higher than other themes.
It's not really mafia? Themes are basically mods, it's not surprising that they change what the game is about. Otherwise, themes like ClanWar are not mafia either, and they got approved.
This isn't a good theme. I can't speak for other people, but that's the point I believe me and others against this theme are trying to get across. It isn't a good theme. See my above post for why. Just because it happens to be the "best non-mafia noobkiller theme," doesn't make it good.
No one has said why this is a good theme. No one has said what differentiates this from other "noobkillers."
The "not mafia" argument doesn't hold any water, I'll give you that. But that's not why it's being rejected. It's being rejected and should be rejected because it isn't a good theme.
This theme is great for raging and targeting the people you don't like. You don't have to worry about who you kill because you are on your own side. What priority you get in any theme is luck because the roles are given out at random. I believe that everyone has the same chance of winning. Something unique about the theme is that it is not possible to have a tie, someone has to win. I don't think that can be said for any other theme because all of the others themes have poisons and other factors in effect.
I don't care at all if the theme is or isn't accepted. If it is accepted then I will play it since i have fond memories of killing people when i first started but if it isn't accepted then I am not going to worry about it. If I want to kill people I will just pray i get a non revealing samurai in a theme. I hope I did not make myself sound stupid through this post.
No, you are right, but I am going to have to burst everyone's bubble for your own good. The truth is that this theme is NOT going to be added even if the rest of the remaining QC approve this. So I don't want you guys to get your hopes up and think it has a chance of making it when it actually doesn't. Also, no, I am not going to further elaborate, just trust me when I say that Vepix's time is up.
That sounds like a serious issue. Basically means we can't trust Mafia QC anymore, since any theme could be approved or rejected even if the reviewers says otherwise. If what the official reviewers say is not enough to judge a theme, how can we believe a theme didn't pass the QC process for the same reason Vepix is not going to?
Seriously, this only hurts the QC system reliability. Give it a fair review, and even the people who supported this theme will accept if it gets rejected.
This thread says Drapht is not part of QC Staff, so only 6 approvals.
Well, that's not very fair x:
My conspiracy theories over Pokemon and SSBB+ just got a whole lot bigger, too. ):
Coming to think off; if Vepix got approved, then hell, why not approve the old Pokemon themed and SSBB+? Basically both of them got alot of killers, just like Vepix.
Vepix is a killing game. I have said that it encourages targeting, and I still stand by this.
A good mafia theme, a noobkiller is not one. It's mindless killing. The priority is random, so you don't even know if you'll even live to get your n1 kill through.
It seems very obvious to me that there is quite the bias coming from the QC regarding Vepix. I'm not going to preach on it, but I hoped that everybody would have a neutral stance, or least attempt to adopt one, before actually reviewing. It may be a classic from the old Mafia we knew, but face it. It simply is nothing more than a simple killing game based on chance.
When I said Vepix could only have 2 rejects, I wasn't implying anything. I am not going to partake in this extremely controversial debate (actually, argument) that causes ragefires everywhere. Katia says that Vepix will not be approved. With a 100% chance. SteelEdges, the person in charge of this, definitely rejects this. Professor Oak, too, dislikes this theme for it being "noobkiller" oriented and having no strategy. Two out of three rejects this, but (not implying anything) some MAs disagree. But I think that disagreements cause discussions, and with discussions, we can come up with a proper verdict.
Yeah no. Those themes are more so PR fests than noobkillers. The difference is that in Pokemon and SSBB+ you would ideally use some strategy, except you can't because everyone just randomly uses their commands/gets hax on everything. Vepix has no such pretense of strategy; you just kill.
Remember, without the voting and day phases, Vepix will take 1/3 the time of other themes, possibly less. I think that everyone will understand that and not rage if they get killed, because odds are, you will be, n1 or n7.
You can't claim the other side is biased when you're biased yourself, you know. Vepix may be "nothing more than a simple killing game based on chance," but it's still a fun diversion.
The strategy on this theme, through my point of view goes further than that. I call it strategy not on "determining priority" but about what we talk on chat: "Should I say my target was the last to die?'', ''Should I lie saying my tagert was the last to die, but it was the first?'', ''Should I say nothting for they not notice I'm playing of think I'm afk?'', ''Should I kill that guy who said he got first prio or that girl claiming second priority?''... I am sure that I won some vepix games not because I was the least hated that moment, but because of what I said on main chat.
Wait, wait, wait.
How come this got some approvals and Pokemon didn't. Way to up my paranoia, people.
I'm serious :x So this gets approved by some people for being a killfest, and Pokemon aka less of a killfest is rejected for it. Please explain the logic there.
the difference is in the intention. a theme that is clearly village v mafia but with everybody playing as a different kind PR eliminates the whole uninformed majority part of the game (village) and makes it into a killfest of sorts. vepix has no such pretenses, since it's FFA where everybody is literally the same role.
there's no conspiracy here, and I'm not sure why this keeps getting brought up.
So, you are saying Vepix is not a killfest, despite EVERYONE being given the ability to kill? Because that is what it sounds like for me.
It is absolutely a killfest.
It is absolutely 0 strategy.
It is absolutely 100% luck.
BUT! Some people like it because they find it fun and enjoy it. It's a matter of taste I suppose. I never enjoyed playing it, tbh.
Castle was much funnier than Vepix ever could be...IMO.
He said Vepix has no such pretenses of being Village vs Mafia, therefore it assumes itself as a killfest.
Mafia based or not, it's still a killfest.
I don't think anyone is arguing it's not. Please don't distort my (and MeowMix's) words.
The point here is that some people find usefulness and fun in this theme, regardless of its status as killfest or non-mafia. While some of those usefulness/fun arguments may sound personal opinion/subjective, the counters to those arguments I'm reading are the same.
Separate names with a comma.