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[BW2] Cool stuff to use in Ubers

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Dr. Doom, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    This thread's all about those movesets you don't see much, but are still viable. Whether you came up with them yourself, or they're just plain rare, please share them!

    Giratina-O
    [​IMG]
    Sleeping Beauty
    Nature: Modest (+SAtk -Atk)
    EVs: 104 HP, 252 Def, 152 SAtk or 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SAtk
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Calm Mind
    Dragon Pulse

    Set Comments
    With Rest and Sleep Talk, Lugia's Toxic, Tentacruel's Scald burns and ParaDance Groudon's Thunder Wave don't bother Giratina-O at all. Calm Mind boosts Giratina's Special Attack and Special Defence, giving it great power and amazing bulk simultaneously. Dragon Pulse gets great nuetral coverage, and hits very hard after a few boosts.

    The upside to this set is that it's a phenomenal stallbreaker. It has the advantage over Dark Arceus in that it doesn't fear Snatch Blissey (not that common, but still threatening) - If Blissey snatches Rest, it has to switch out. It can muscle through stall teams almost by itself, and all they can really do in return is phaze. They can't Trick items onto Giratina, it's immune to Seismic Toss and can instantly heal itself of status with Rest. It does struggle more with Steel types, but Giratina can beat the more defensive ones eventually since they can't really hurt it. Defensive Jirachi's Iron Head can only 7HKO, so unless it gets very lucky with hax it will fall eventually.[/HIDE]

    Grass Arceus
    [​IMG]
    Support
    Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP, 144 SDef, 112 Spd
    Thunder Wave
    Grass Knot/Judgment
    Recover
    Ice Beam/Stealth Rock/Magic Coat/Perish Song

    Set Comments
    Support Grass Arceus is an overlooked gem. Thanks to its typing, Groudon and Garchomp never switch in, allowing it to spread Thunder Wave throughout your opponent's team. This makes a lot of the fast frail sweepers (Palkia, Rayquaza) easy pickings for Arceus's teammates. Grass Knot is recommended, as that hits the majority of Ubers (namely Groudon and Kyogre) for higher damage, however it does virtually nothing to Manaphy so you may prefer Judgment's consistent power. Recover is mandatory for almost any support Arceus. Ice Beam is an option for extra coverage; Stealth Rock can be used if nothing else on your team can set it up; Magic Coat lets it beat Deoxys-S; Perish Song can be used to open up opportunities for boosting sweepers.

    The EVs let it survive an Ice Beam from Specs Kyogre, while still having enough speed to outrun positive natured base 90s. [/HIDE]

    Ghost Arceus
    [​IMG]

    SubCM
    Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)
    Item: Spooky Plate
    EVs: 252 HP, 4 SAtk, 252 Spd
    Substitute
    Calm Mind
    Judgment
    Focus Blast

    Set comments
    You're running Calm Mind Ghost Arceus, and your opponent switches in a Chansey. You're in big trouble. Or are you? This set turns the pink blobs from walls into set up fodder, since there's nothing they can do once Arceus is behind a Substitute. Calm Mind boosts Arceus's Special Attack and Special Defence, letting it become very bulky and very powerful at the same time. Judgment gets STAB; Focus Blast gets perfect neutral coverage alongside it.

    The EVs maximise Arceus's bulk and let it tie with other max speed Arceus formes. The remainder is thrown in Special Attack for extra power. [/HIDE]

    Dialga
    [​IMG]

    Mixed Bulk Up
    Nature: Quiet (+SAtk -Spd)
    Item: Life Orb/Leftovers/Lum Berry
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 SAtk
    Bulk Up
    Draco Meteor
    Outrage/Brick Break/Dragon Claw
    Fire Blast/Thunder/Aura Sphere

    Set Comments
    Chansey and Blissey love to switch in on Dialga. With this set, they'll be beating a hasty retreat. Bulk Up opens up new opportunities for Dialga, allowing it to survive attacks it otherwise never could without investment. At +1, it can survive an Earthquake from Rock Polish Groudon (it does have a small chance to be 1HKOd if Groudon is Adamant nature), and a Close Combat from Scarf Terrakion. It can then 1HKO both with Draco Meteor. Outrage has the most power but locks Dialga in; Brick Break deals with Steels Chansey and Blissey; Dragon Claw is a halfway house between the two. There are a lot of options for coverage. Fire Blast is usually the best bet, unless Dialga's on a rain team in which case Thunder's best. Aura Sphere gets through Steels and Tyranitar.

    EVs and nature maximise attack on both sides. Since Dialga's not winning any races, it doesn't mind the speed penalties of Quiet. Life Orb give the most reliable boost; Leftovers keeps Diagla around longer; Lum Berry is insurance against Darkrai (although running either of the latter items will cost you KOs). This set doesn't sweep - it's designed to get surprise KOs. [/HIDE]

    Palkia​

    [​IMG]

    Physical Based Mix
    Nature: Hasty (+Spd -Def)
    Item: Lustrous Orb/Life Orb
    EVs: 252 Atk, 4 SAtk, 252 Spd
    Outrage
    Aqua Tail
    Draco Meteor/Spacial Rend
    Thunder/Fire Blast

    Set Comments
    Palkia is commonly used as a check to Kyogre. However, special Palkia will lose to the Kyogre sets that carry Calm Mind. This Palkia though, can 2HKO all but the most physically bulky Kyogre with Outrage (and the . It can also score surprise KOs on Palkia's usual checks, namely Chansey and Blissey. In rain Aqua Tail cleanly 2HKOs 4HP/252Def Eviolite Chansey. The last moves are mainly filler, although they're very helpful for getting past physical walls like Skarmory. Draco Meteor is recommended, since this Palkia isn't as bothered by the stat penalties. Spacial Rend is the alternative though. The last move depends on what kind of weather your team is using. Thunder for Rain; Fire Blast for everything else to get through Ferrothorn, a common Palkia switch in.[/HIDE]

    Groudon
    [​IMG]

    Double Dance
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SAtk)
    Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry
    EVs: 56 HP, 252 Atk, 200 Spd
    Swords Dance
    Rock Polish
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge

    Set Comments
    It works in much the same way as Terrakion's Double Dance set from OU. Need to clear up what's left of your opponent's team? Use Rock Polish. Need to break through a wall? Use Swords Dance. Since EdgeQuake gets almost perfect neutral coverage in Ubers, those are the only attacks Groudon needs. Obviously, Attack is maximised. 200 Speed EVs allow Groudon to outrun Choice Scarf Thundurus (and everything up to Scarf Darkrai and Shaymin-S) at +2 Speed. The remainder is dumped in HP for extra bulk.

    This set's best used late game, once the possible counters have been eliminated. Life Orb is a good boosting item, and helps Groudon get KOs if it hasn't used Swords Dance yet. Lum Berry prevents Giratina for crippling with Will-O-Wisp and Darkrai from incapacitating with Dark Void. However, I should point out that running the Lum Berry will cost you KOs if Groudon hasn't used Swords Dance yet.[/HIDE]

    Rayquaza
    [​IMG]

    Mixed Dragon Dance
    Nature: Naive (+Spd -SDef)/ Rash (+SAtk -SDef)
    Item: Life Orb
    EVs: 40 Atk, 252 SAtk, 216 Spd
    Dragon Dance
    Draco Meteor
    Outrage
    Fire Blast/Earthquake

    Set Comments
    A lot of people forget Rayquaza's immense Special Attack, which matches Dialga, Palkia and Reshiram. It can't abuse it quite as well as they can, but it still has more than enough moves to make it work. After using Dragon Dance, your opponent will most likely switch in a physical wall like Groudon...which is hugely damaged by Draco Meteor. If you run Rash it's always 1HKOd after Stealth Rock. If you run Naive, it's almost always 1HKOd after Spikes. Outrage is the secondary STAB, and does a lot of damage after a boost. The last move is a toss up - Fire Blast works well due to this set's special nature. However, Earthquake isn't affected by Draco Meteor's penalties.

    The EVs are crucial to guarantee a KO on support Groudon. Life Orb is the most reliable boosting item. Naive makes Rayquaza very fast after a boost - Rash makes it more powerful. Although slower than the normal Dragon Dance sweeper set, it has the advantage of blowing straight through Groudon, something that set could only dream about.[/HIDE]

    Mewtwo
    [​IMG]
    Credit to TheSexiOne
    Taunt
    Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)
    Item: Expert Belt
    EVs: 252 SAtk, 4SDef, 252 Spd
    Taunt
    Psystrike
    Aura Sphere
    Fire Blast/Ice Beam/Thunder

    Set comments
    Killing 2 birds with one stone on this set. You can either Taunt hazard setters or set up sweepers to stop them setting up, or just sweep. Psystike gets STAB, and does a lot of damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Aura Sphere handles most of the Pokemon that do. The last move is a question of coverage: Fire Blast smokes Ferrothorn, Forretress and Skarmory. Ice Beam 1HKOs Garchomp, Rayquaza, and Shaymin-S and 2HKOs Groudon. Thunder 2HKOs Kyogre, and (after Stealth Rock damage) 1HKOs Ho-Oh and 2HKOs Lugia.

    The EVs maximise speed and power. Expert Belt gives a reliable boost to super effective moves, and comes with no recoil. [/HIDE]

    There are more than that, but I if listed ever single underrated moveset out there this thread would be incredibly long. So if you can think of any movesets which don't get much use, but still work, please share it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  2. Arceus

    Arceus Member

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    The only Pokemon I am going to argue the EV spread for is the Double Dance Groudon. As long as it is Adamant nature, it can never outpace scarf Skymin, Darkrai, or Mewtwo. In short you are wasting some EVs. If you want to be able to outpace scarf Thundurus, it only takes 200 EVs in Speed. You might also choose 176 EVs which let you outpace scarf Terrakion after RP. 136 lets you outpace scarf Garchomp.

    If you do one of those alternative amounts for Speed EVs, it will let you give it more bulk to increase its chance to sweep. It is optional to try Leftovers instead of Life Orb since Swords Dance is used, but it does lose a lot of KOs it could get if it doesn't pull off both dances.
     
  3. chippymunk

    chippymunk Bran-ed

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    I've seen from experience that dialga bulk up set is a kick ass set.
     
  4. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    right because snatch blissey is everywhere
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
    ZoroDark likes this.
  5. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    I'm not quite sure how these movesets are "underrated", really. The Bulk Up Dialga (use a Lum Berry over Life Orb, it alleviates Outrage confusion, Chansey/Blissey Thunder Waves, and Darkrai that try to sleep you.) is the only set that isn't really common and viable. DoubleDance Groudon, ThunderWave Grassceus, RestTalk GirOtina, and mixed DDance Rayquaza have all been around since Gen 4. I'm also starting to question the viability of DoubleDance Groudon - on Sun teams, Groudon is the most common Stealth Rock setter. This means Lugia is a common switchin to Groudon to preserve Multiscale, and Physically Defensive Lugia walls DoubleDance Groudon to hell and back. Your EVs for Groudon are also terrible - What do they even accomplish? The fastest Scarfers in the tier - Shaymin-Sky, Darkrai, and Mewtwo (unless Modest which almost no one runs, it gets outsped by the aforementioned Scarfers) - all still outspeed you at +2 Speed. Here is a tried-and-trusted EV spread that actually works: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spd, Adamant Nature. 152 Speed hits 253 Speed. At +2, you will outspeed Max Speed Timid Deoxys-S (504 speed) by 2 stat points.
    I have no idea what your Grass Arceus set accomplishes either. Since it hits 334 Speed you seem to be sacrificing Speed for bulk? The only thing notable you outspeed with your EVs is Garchomp, which is generally a Scarfer. Your Arceus spread still gets 2HKO'd by Specs Ogre's Water Spout, Hydro Pump, and Ice Beam. If you are aiming to survive Scarf Kyogre's Ice Beam you aren't doing it right either - after 1 round of Stealth Rocks your Arceus is 2HKO'd. Since I'm still clueless on what your spread does and you haven't said anything about it I'm going to suggest a more common spread: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spd, Timid Nature. This spread allows you to outspeed all Arceus with a neutral nature in regards to Speed. Having the jump on them is useful for CM Arceus that you can Status (speaking of Status, Toxic is another good option over Thunder Wave. Also, do not slash Recover. You'd have to be high to run a Bulky Arceus with 0 recovery.)
    Your Rayquaza spread also makes 0 sense and you didn't explain it. I'm sensing a pattern here - you seem to be randomly throwing EVs around without knowing exactly what your spreads accomplish. Here's a different spread: 40 Atk / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd, Naive Nature This EV spread hits 308 Speed. enough to outspeed Scarfed Base 90's (Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyogre, Dialga). You seemed to want Max SpAtk for some reason, and 0 Atk +1 LO Rayquaza already OHKOs Scarfed Kyogre 100% of the time with Outrage, so I let that stay somewhat similar. I'm a bit iffy on your choice of Earthquake as an option The only Pokemon you hit are Heatran and Dialga.
     
  6. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    @Project Oppenheimer

    Read the set comments.

    Grass Arceus - it's goal is to cripple the fast frail sweepers (Rayquaza, Palkia) with Thunder Wave to make them easy pickings later on. It can almost always beat Specs Kyogre one on one. It can switch in on anything bar Ice Beam and 2HKO with Grass Knot. It cripples the Scarf set with Thunder Wave, Recovers off any damage and again 2HKOs with Grass Knot. As for Recover, I'll make the changes.

    Rayquaza - The EVs are crucial to 1HKO max HP Groudon after Spikes damage. The nature choice comes down to whether you want extra speed, or the insurance of a 90% chance to 1HKO support Groudon (100% after Stealth Rock damage). The EVs in Attack give Outrage a lot of punch after a boost (you're right though, 40 would probably suffice). Earthquake also hits Zekrom, Reshiram, and Jirachi, and unlike Outrage doesn't lock Rayquaza in and unlike Draco Meteor doesn't come with stat penalties. Therefore, it's a viable option.

    I'll change the EVs on Groudon, although I still maintain it's a very viable set. Groudon can do far more than lay Stealth Rock and phaze with Dragon Tail. It's also a very good late game sweeper - after a boost with Rock Polish and/or Swords Dance, it can flatten teams. I'd know - I've done it. I will change the EVs though, I forgot about Scarf Shaymin-S.

    The sets are underrated because you don't see them very often while playing Wifi Ubers. Have I cleared things up for you now?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  7. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    So are you adopting the EVs I suggested? Yours has 56 Atk, which doesn't seem to net any more kills than my 40 Atk spread. I maintained Max SAtk like you said.

    (P.S.: use my Arceus-Grass EV spread: you still didn't explain your EV choice and you said that Garchomp will not want to switch into it - why aim to outspeed it instead of faster threats only needing slightly more investment to outspeed and cripple?)

    This statement is false. I see at least one of these multple times a day.
    Why are you reposting them here then?
     
  8. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Very selective quoting there PO.

    I don't know what Wifi Ubers you play, but I'm on Pokemon Online most days and Wifi Ubers is the tier I play most. 90% of the Groudons I see are the Stealth Rock support set, with the rest being ParaDance; I hardly ever see Arceus in any forme besides Normal or Ghost. Dialga is mostly support, sometimes with Choice Specs. Rayquaza is mostly either Swords Dance or physical Dragon Dance. Giratina-O seems to be either SubCM, Mixed Attacker or Status Shuffler. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see the sets I've mentioned very often at all in Wifi Ubers. That's why I made this thread. I made the comment about Smogon so people knew they were just gimmicks.

    As for the EVs of Grass Arceus, they're the perfect blend of lots of bulk with just enough speed to outrun the base 90s (as I said in the set comments). The only Arceus sets which run neutral speed natures are the defensive ones (which will most likely wall Grass Arceus anyway) and Extremekiller (who doesn't need the speed due to Extremespeed's priority). Almost every other offensive set run a speed boosting nature with max EVs, so what would your layout accomplish? Thunder Wave slows Pokemon to a crawl anyway, so why does it need the extra speed?
     
  9. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    Well I did suggest Toxic as an additional option. It really helps out Stall teams that have problems with boosting Arceus (Thunder Waving a Darkceus won't help you at all, really). You mentioned outspeeding base 90's - why not try out this bulkier spread that gives you better bulk in exchange for Speed you don't seem to need? 252 HP / 132 SDef / 124 Spd, Calm Nature This lets you outspeed Positively Natured Base 90s by one point, and increases your bulk.
     
  10. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    The damage taken on the two different EV spreads are virtually the same. So you wouldn't survive any attacks that you otherwise wouldn't using the normal spread. Toxic's a good option for Steel and Poison Arceus to beat Lugia, but Steels love to switch in on Grasseus. Darkcues almost always carry Refresh anyway, so most players aren't going to bother trying to status it.

    vs Specs Kyogre
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Kyogre (+SAtk) Ice Beam vs 252HP/144SpDef Meadow Plate Multitype Arceus (Neutral): 64% - 76% (288 - 340 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Kyogre (+SAtk) Ice Beam vs 252HP/132SpDef Meadow Plate Multitype Arceus (+SpDef): 59% - 70% (264 - 312 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    vs Calm Mind Mewtwo
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Mewtwo (Neutral) Ice Beam vs 252HP/144SpDef Meadow Plate Multitype Arceus (Neutral): 78% - 92% (348 - 410 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Mewtwo (Neutral) Ice Beam vs 252HP/132SpDef Meadow Plate Multitype Arceus (+SpDef): 71% - 84% (318 - 376 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
     
  11. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Taunt Expert Belt Mewtwo deserves a honourable mention.
    Don't think LO should be slash 1 on DD Groudon - if it was only RP I'd understand, but +2 is more than enough power anyway.
    Dragon Tail is BU Dialga's premier move imo, with hazards, and a Restalk set, it basically can't be set-up on. It doesn't even get a slash? lol
     
  12. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Bulk Up RestTalk and Mixed Bulk Up Dialga's jobs are very different. RestTalk is a stallbreaker; mixed BU is an all out attacker. Mixed BU's job is to get surprise KOs on its usual counters (Scarf Terrakion etc.) and Dragon Tail isn't powerful enough on an all offensive set. Life Orb is a viable option since Groudon isn't necessarily going to get both boosts in, so it's nice to have that little insurance.

    What EVs and nature do you use on Taunt Expert Belt Mewtwo?
     
  13. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Well my set is Aura Sphere/Taunt/Psystrike/Thunder, although that's only because I'm running rain. 252 SAtk/252 Speed/4 SDef with Timid nature.
     
  14. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Thanks for that. I'll add some more sets in a few days.
     
  15. Blimlax

    Blimlax A Silent and Serene Heart

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    On the double dance groudon set, I think you should consider having life orb / lum berry slashed in only. If you want to use leftovers then I recommend this spread:

    [Bulky Double Dancer]

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
    Nature: Impish
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Good late game cleaner and wall. Decent suprise factor too, as most people wouldn't expect a leftovers groudon to be a double dancer. 56 Speed EVs to outspeed scarf kyogre after a rock polish. I've also seen a more specially defensive spread with 120 HP / 252 sdef / 136 speed with a careful nature, which allows you to set up on special attackers such as palkia and dialga easier.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  16. Recker

    Recker Member

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    I wouldn't want this set to spread around so much. Not underrated, pretty much unknown.
    Does deserve a mention though.

    It did give Blimlax quite teh ragequit. -.-

    Deoxys-S @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Thunder Wave
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes

    Trick to cripple majority of metagame in Ubers. Eviolite Chansey's, walls such as Ferrothorn or Lugia, and even set-uppers, notably Arceus'. Thunder Wave is to cripple further any switch ins that realize that first Pokemon is useless. Hazards to take advantage of their disability. Things to watch out for are common scarfers such as Darkrai, Palkia, possibly Kyogre, though not as common, every non-normal Arceus, and lastly, Tyranitar (Crunch + Sandstorm). Max HP for bulky tanking while using switch, Max Speed to maintain advantage. Doesn't necessarily have to lead the battle, Trick can be saved for late game if they have a sweeper. A backup hazard-er is recommended as this is a suicide lead.[/HIDE]

    Also, the most unseen Palkia set, but still perfectly viable.

    Palkia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 SDef
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Dragon Tail
    - Draco Meteor

    SubPunch to wreck Chansey/Blisseys and Ferrothorn directly. Substitute also helps out against their Status moves and Ferro's Leech Seed. Dragon tail help racks up residual damage with hazards and helps remove anything you cant handle while behind the sub. Draco Meteor for a general beat to Giratina who will wreck Palkia if it WoW'd. Max HP for bulky subs, still breaks to Ferro's Power Whip/Seismic Toss, 212 SDef to act as a nice Kyogre sponge switch in, (force the switch, sub) and remaining into attack for whacking.[/HIDE]
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  17. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    That's an interesting set for Palkia, but the EV layout seems a bit weird. Palkia's not what you'd call bulky, so you're better off just maxing its speed and attack stats (as you said the subs are still broken by Ferrothorn's Power Whip). If you want a bulky attacker, Dialga does that much better.

    @ Blimax

    Yeah, you're right it doesn't really need the recovery since it's either supposed to wallbreak or clean up late game. Going to edit the thread this weekend, so will make the necessary.
     
  18. Baron Corm

    Baron Corm New Member

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    Calm Mind Giratina-regular can set up Calm Mind on more powerful pokemon, and at +6 kills any wall just as easily. The extra bulk and Leftovers make a huge difference. You don't really need Sleep Talk either - throwing off weak Dragon Pulses early on, or wasting it on Rest, is likely. Try Shadow Ball/Aura Sphere for epic coverage, or Shadow Ball/Dragon Tail or Aura Sphere/Dragon Tail to beat other boosters, and have more utility in the team.
     
  19. ADINSX

    ADINSX The All-Powerful

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    Ok, time to revive this thread.

    Many know Darkrai as a threatening sweeper, but it can fill a very viable support role with the combination of Dark Void and Thunder Wave.

    [​IMG]
    The One-Two Punch
    Nature: Timid
    Item: Focus Sash
    EVs: 4 Hp, 252 SAtk, 252 Spe
    -Dark Void
    -Thunder Wave
    -Dark Pulse
    -Focus Blast/Nasty Plot/Taunt

    The goal of this set is to cripple 1/3 of the opponent's team. First, put something to sleep. Then, the opponent switches out and BAM they get hit with a T-Wave.
    I have only seen this set a handful of times while laddering, and imo it is extremely underrated.
     
  20. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Did you rob that off Smogon?
     
  21. -Minutemaid-

    -Minutemaid- Member

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    Speaking of Darkrai...

    Stall's Nightmare
    Darkrai @ Life Orb
    Trait: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dark Void
    - Swords Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch

    (Read the Bold if too lazy)

    This physical Darkrai catches many stall teams by surprise as Darkrai is almost always a special attacker and makes them foolishly sack their physical walls such as Hippowdon, Skarmory, or Groudon to keep their special walls such as Ho-Oh, Chansey, or Tentacruel to try to deal with it. However, physical Darkrai catches them by surprise and takes them out with a +2 or +4 (Swords Dance on switch to special wall, then Swords Dance again to a physical wall) Drain Punch/Sucker Punch. While this set is not the best set Darkrai can run, it is extremely unorthodox and definitely qualifies as cool stuff since it is fun to beat your opponent with SD Darkrai, nuff said.

    vs. SpDef Rest Talk Kyogre: 252Atk Life Orb +2 Darkrai (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 252HP/4Def Kyogre: 77% - 92% (315 - 372 HP). Guaranteed OHKO after rocks and one turn of nightmare.
    vs. Chansey with no boosts: 252Atk Life Orb Darkrai (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 4HP/0Def Eviolite Chansey (Neutral): 96% - 113% (618 - 730 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 78% chance to OHKO.
    vs. Bulky Ho-Oh: 252Atk Life Orb +2 Darkrai (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 252HP/0Def Ho-Oh: 75% - 89% (316 - 373 HP). Guaranteed OHKO after rocks.
    vs. Tentacruel: 252Atk Life Orb +2 Darkrai (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 252HP/4Def Tentacruel (Neutral): 112% - 132% (409 - 483 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    [/HIDE]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  22. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    Hi, what the fuck do these calcs mean? You are Sucker Punching a Non-Eviolite 4 Def Chansey? And I'm not sure why a Tentacruel would attack a Darkrai(Scald maybe?), doesn't Toxic make more sense?
    Here's calcs that mean something:
    Darkrai VS Scarf Kyogre
    252Atk Life Orb +2 Darkrai (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 4HP/0Def Kyogre (Neutral): 92% - 109% (316 - 373 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 54% chance to OHKO.

    Darkrai VS Extremekiller
    252Atk Life Orb +2 Darkrai (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 124HP/0Def Multitype Arceus (Neutral): 74% - 88% (308 - 366 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Possible OHKO after SR, very likely OHKO after SR + LO recoil from Arceus)

    252Atk Life Orb Multitype Arceus (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 4HP/0Def Darkrai (Neutral): 68% - 80% (192 - 228 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Multitype Arceus (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 4HP/0Def Darkrai (Neutral): 52% - 62% (148 - 175 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Non-LO / Normal Gem Extremekiller Arceus will likely lose vs Darkrai.)

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Darkrai (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 4HP/0Def Palkia (Neutral): 89% - 106% (289 - 342 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 37% chance to OHKO. (OHKO after SR)

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Darkrai (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 4HP/0Def Kyurem White (Neutral): 80% - 95% (316 - 373 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (OHKO after SR)

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Darkrai (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 4HP/0Def Kyurem Black (Neutral): 73% - 87% (289 - 342 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Very, very likely OHKO after SR)
    Overall I would NOT consider this Darkrai a stallbreaker (though the counters to the set, i.e. Lugia, Giratina, Dialga, Steelceus, Groudon, Hippowdon and Chansey are heavily intimidated by Darkrai), but it does seem very effective against offensive teams. I'll give it a full run later.
     
  23. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Scald 2HKO's, and no sane Tentacruel should be running Toxic at all.
    Don't these calcs just show that Arceus can SD in Darkrai's face and proceed to OHKO? Granted running HP EVs on Extremekiller isn't that common. Many Arceus run Lum too so it's not a free SD many times.

    Anyway, I wouldn't really recommend SD Darkrai all that seriously because while It's Sucker Punch is powerful and can fuck up Scarf users, it's PP sucks and it can get you walled by stuff you shouldn't, for example Giratina (or any Ghost type) and Rayquaza. Drain Punch is cool for gaining back health but it's not all that powerful, for example Ferrothorn can mess your day up with Gyro Ball or Thunder Wave. However it's got a lot of surprise power and it's definitely a cool stuff mon.
     
  24. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    A set which fell out of favour after Gen 4, but I think is still perfectly viable.

    [​IMG]

    Dialga @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk -Spd)
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 SAtk
    0 Spd IVs
    Level: 99
    Trick Room
    Draco Meteor
    Outrage/ Brick Break
    Fire Blast/ Aura Sphere/ Thunder

    Dialga's only bad stat is its speed. This turns the problem on its head - with a reducing nature, 0 IVs and level 99 it's slower than neutral Scizor, meaning in a Trick Room it will go first 95% of the time. Draco Meteor gets STAB and does massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Outrage hits harder than Brick Break but it locks Dialga in, so Brick Break is an alternative. Fire Blast is the best option (unless Dialga's on a rain team) to toast the Steel types that resist Dialga's STAB. Aura Sphere does a similar job, although obviously don't use it if you run Brick Break. Thunder can be useful in rain to smash Ho-Oh, although it will leave Dialga walled by Ferrothorn if it doesn't have Brick Break.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  25. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Hey guys. I can't claim to be any good at Ubers (I've only played a couple of matches here and there), but I had a random idea:

    [​IMG]

    Grasseus @ Meadow Plate (of course)
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
    Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)

    -Swords Dance
    -Bullet Seed (no Seed Bomb. :()
    -Stone Edge / ExtremeSpeed
    -Earthquake

    After a Swords Dance, this set can prove nothing short of deadly, smiting many of its usual checks and counters with relative ease:

    252Atk Meadow Plate +2 Multitype Arceus (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 4HP/0Def Ho-Oh (Neutral): 254% - 299% (900 - 1060 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. (very dead)
    252Atk Meadow Plate +2 Multitype Arceus (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 4HP/0Def Reshiram (Neutral): 120% - 142% (412 - 486 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252Atk Meadow Plate +2 Multitype Arceus (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 4HP/0Def Shaymin (Neutral): 152% - 180% (522 - 616 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252Atk Meadow Plate +2 Multitype Arceus (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 252HP/0Def Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 46% - 54% (154 - 182 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 14% chance to 2HKO.
    252Atk Meadow Plate +2 Multitype Arceus (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 4HP/0Def Levitate Giratina (Neutral): 46% - 54% (206 - 243 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 15% chance to 2HKO.

    252Atk Meadow Plate +2 Multitype Arceus (Neutral) Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Groudon (+Def): 106% - 126% (432 - 512 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    Stone Edge is obviously pretty much needed, but it can be dropped for ExtremeSpeed, as Ho-Oh is still covered with it (after SR):

    252Atk Meadow Plate +2 Multitype Arceus (Neutral) ExtremeSpeed vs 4HP/0Def Ho-Oh (Neutral): 50% - 59% (180 - 212 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Feel free to calc other stuff too, but I figured these'd be enough for some perspective. Ignoring potential Hax, SD Grasseus can easily destroy a LOT of the Ubers tier. Not Ho-oh food any more, huh? :D
     
  26. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    I saw a max sp. att Arceus-electric with dracometeor. Completely destroyed my Zekrom switch in. I never saw it coming.
     
  27. Titan Laser

    Titan Laser Ultimate Organism

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Overlord GAIA
    [​IMG]

    This is the single best Rapid Spinner in the Übers tier. But of course, I don't expect anyone in this community other than myself to understand that, seeing as having participated in an absolutely insane number of Übers battles, as evident from the SEVENTEEN different Generation V Übers ladders across six different servers between Pokémon Online and Pokémon Showdown! on which I have reached #1, I am the one and only Pokémon Master in this tier, who has reached a level of experience with the Übers metagame at which I have unlocked an unparalleled level of wisdom and secret knowledge about said metagame.
     
  28. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    You're oh so humble too.

    Personally, I'd say that's more down to opinion than anything. Cloyster's specially frail as fuck, which means it won't stand up to anything specially based in Ubers other than Ice Beams. Even boosted Surfs are gonna 2HKO the thing.
     
  29. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Please Lance, come home
     
  30. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    Well he's partially correct in terms of spinning against gira and gira o, cloy is easily the best as it can shell smash on the switch and deal heavy damage/ko with a stab icicle spear
    However, against ghostceus, a toxic split forre fairs much better as it can wait for poison to accumulate before he is forced out and then spin
     
  31. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Liarliarpantsonfire
    [​IMG]
    (Arceus-Water) @ Splash Plate
    Trait: (No Ability)
    EVs: 184 HP / 200 SDef / 124 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roar

    Sun team support. Against Kyogre leads just switch your Groudon out into this, then T-Wave whatever comes in. If it's one of those fancy Calm Mind sets just Roar it out. Also switches in perfectly into Specs Dialga, outspeeds and Recovers back up. Spreading paralysis is one of the most annoying strategies in Ubers but arguably also one of the most effective. A paralyzed Kyogre can't just switch into Groudon anymore with SR and a layer of Spikes up. Ice Beam is a move that Sun Teams generally lack unless they use Mewtwo/Genesect or something. It hits the Ground-types that are immune to T-Wave. So basically Groudon :P You can use Flamethrower too but aside from Forretress and Genesect you don't hit much in Ubers, and the latter is rendered useless by T-Wave anyway. Nothing can setup on this when you can T-Wave, and Subs get Roar'd out. Very hard to one-shot this guy, if that's even possible. Specs Thunder from Modest Kyogre doesn't even OHKO after Rocks so yeah. Bulky stuff. You need some Spikes though to make the most out of it.
     
  32. -Minutemaid-

    -Minutemaid- Member

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    Lol I meant to do a drain punch calc for the chansey. What do you mean by "(though the counters to the set, i.e. Lugia, Giratina, Dialga, Steelceus, Groudon, Hippowdon and Chansey are heavily intimidated by Darkrai)" Lugia and Giratina do not counter Darkrai lol, its the other way around
     
  33. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Lugia gets put to Sleep, but still walls DP/SP coverage Darkrai and phazes when it gets up. Giratina can burn and Darkrai has to hope that it uses DTail. It should be able to beat them, but can't really.
     
  34. -Minutemaid-

    -Minutemaid- Member

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    People need to calm down though, its just a "Cool stuff to use in Ubers" thread
     
  35. MewtwoHidden

    MewtwoHidden My Hax Makes Me Famous

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    PO Trainer Name:
    MewtwoHidden
    [​IMG]
    Toast (Munchlax) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Whirlwind/Toxic
    - Body Slam

    As far as special walling goes, this is an absolute monster. Most Special attackers are going to get walled mercilessly. Whirlwind guarantees that Toast does not become a set up fodder, but Toxic helps you win stall wars. Body Slam could grant you a lucky paralysis which benefits Toast's team.

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Kyogre (+SAtk) Water Spout in Rain vs 252HP/252SpDef Eviolite Thick Fat Munchlax (+SpDef): 75% - 89% (358 - 423 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    That's right, the most powerful special attack in the game fails to OHKO, but if you had SR and Spikes support then it would be much less. Since my Damage calculator doesn't have any HP setting except for 100% and 33% I will give you a log from where I got all hazards up first. (Ofcourse this is against a legit team of my friend Rioku Mattenake who let me get all hazards up. So a few Hazard setters including Toxic Spikers are usefull when using the great and powerful Toast)

    Start of turn 7
    Rioku Mattenake called Arceus-Flying back!
    Rioku Mattenake sent out Kyogre!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Kyogre!
    The foe's Kyogre is hurt by spikes!
    The foe's Kyogre was badly poisoned!

    the foe's Kyogre's Drizzle made it rain!
    MewtwoHidden called Forretress back!
    MewtwoHidden sent out Toast! (Munchlax)

    Rain continues to fall.
    The foe's Kyogre was hurt by poison!
    MewtwoHidden: :O
    MewtwoHidden: this will be easy stall

    Start of turn 8
    The foe's Kyogre used Water Spout!
    Toast lost 231 HP! (48% of its health)

    Toast used Rest!
    Toast went to sleep and became healthy!

    Rain continues to fall.
    The foe's Kyogre was hurt by poison!
    Rioku Mattenake: it out stalls

    Start of turn 9
    The foe's Kyogre used Water Spout!
    Toast lost 184 HP! (38% of its health)

    Toast is fast asleep.
    Toast used Sleep Talk!
    Toast used Whirlwind!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Latios!
    The foe's Latios was dragged out!

    Rain continues to fall.
    MewtwoHidden: NO TOAST NO
    Rioku Mattenake: eat draco meteor
    MewtwoHidden: Lets continue
    Rioku Mattenake: go

    Start of turn 10
    The foe's Latios used Draco Meteor!
    Toast lost 204 HP! (43% of its health)
    The foe's Latios's Sp. Att. sharply fell!

    Toast is fast asleep.
    Toast used Sleep Talk!
    Toast used Rest!
    But it failed!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Rioku Mattenake: :O
    Rioku Mattenake: toast to op

    Start of turn 11
    The foe's Latios used Surf!
    Toast lost 64 HP! (13% of its health)

    Toast woke up!
    Toast used Rest!
    Toast went to sleep and became healthy!

    Rain continues to fall.

    Start of turn 12
    Rioku Mattenake called Latios back!
    Rioku Mattenake sent out Palkia!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Palkia!
    The foe's Palkia is hurt by spikes!
    The foe's Palkia was badly poisoned!

    The foe's Palkia is exerting its Pressure!
    Toast is fast asleep.
    Toast used Sleep Talk!
    Toast used Body Slam!
    The foe's Palkia lost 27% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall.
    The foe's Palkia was hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 13
    The foe's Palkia used Draco Meteor!
    Toast lost 148 HP! (31% of its health)
    The foe's Palkia's Sp. Att. sharply fell!

    Toast is fast asleep.
    Toast used Sleep Talk!
    Toast used Rest!
    But it failed!

    Rain continues to fall.
    The foe's Palkia was hurt by poison!
    Rioku Mattenake: but i have specs
    MewtwoHidden: LOL

    Start of turn 14
    The foe's Palkia used Draco Meteor!
    Toast lost 78 HP! (16% of its health)
    The foe's Palkia's Sp. Att. sharply fell!

    Toast woke up!
    Toast used Body Slam!
    The foe's Palkia lost 16% of its health!
    The foe's Palkia fainted!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Rioku Mattenake sent out Arceus-Flying!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Arceus-Flying!

    Start of turn 15
    The foe's Arceus-Flying used Calm Mind!
    The foe's Arceus-Flying's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's Arceus-Flying's Sp. Def. rose!

    Toast used Rest!
    Toast went to sleep and became healthy!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Rioku Mattenake: arceus gonna whoop you man gonna ohko
    MewtwoHidden: Lets demonstrate why Toast ISNT set-up fodder

    Start of turn 16
    The foe's Arceus-Flying used Judgment!
    Toast lost 175 HP! (36% of its health)

    Toast is fast asleep.
    Toast used Sleep Talk!
    Toast used Body Slam!
    A critical hit!
    The foe's Arceus-Flying lost 37% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Rioku Mattenake: ouch

    Start of turn 17
    The foe's Arceus-Flying used Recover!
    The foe's Arceus-Flying regained health!

    Toast is fast asleep.
    Toast used Sleep Talk!
    Toast used Body Slam!
    The foe's Arceus-Flying lost 20% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall.

    Start of turn 18
    The foe's Arceus-Flying used Calm Mind!
    The foe's Arceus-Flying's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's Arceus-Flying's Sp. Def. rose!

    Toast woke up!
    Toast used Whirlwind!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Latios!
    The foe's Latios was dragged out!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Rioku Mattenake: it hurts

    Start of turn 19
    The foe's Latios used Surf!
    Toast lost 127 HP! (26% of its health)

    Toast used Body Slam!
    The foe's Latios lost 35% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Rioku Mattenake: it wont die

    Start of turn 20
    The foe's Latios used Surf!
    Toast lost 127 HP! (26% of its health)

    Toast used Rest!
    Toast went to sleep and became healthy!

    Rain continues to fall.

    Start of turn 21
    The foe's Latios used Thunder!
    Toast lost 121 HP! (25% of its health)

    Toast is fast asleep.
    Toast used Sleep Talk!
    Toast used Body Slam!
    The foe's Latios lost 32% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Rioku Mattenake: o wait

    Start of turn 22
    The foe's Latios used Psyshock!
    Toast lost 280 HP! (59% of its health)

    Toast is fast asleep.
    Toast used Sleep Talk!
    Toast used Whirlwind!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Kyogre!
    The foe's Kyogre is hurt by spikes!
    The foe's Kyogre was dragged out!

    Rain continues to fall.
    The foe's Kyogre was hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 23
    The foe's Kyogre used Scald!
    Toast lost 73 HP! (15% of its health)
    Toast fainted!

    Rain continues to fall.
    The foe's Kyogre was hurt by poison!
    The foe's Kyogre fainted!

    Had Rioku not had Psyshock, I would have walled his entire team to death.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  36. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    Yep Toast is a boss. Took 86% from my specs Kyogre at full health, 40% from my sash Deoxys-A's psycho bosst, and 37% from scarf Kyurem-W 's draco meteor.
     
  37. kk420

    kk420 Ladies and gentlemen, man

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    Zekrom @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Hone Claws
    - Bolt Strike
    - Dragon Claw
    Obvious set, mainly sets up on ferrothorn/forretress and the rare tentacruel, guarantees at least one, most of the time 2 ko's, obviously weak to excadrill and groudon.

    Excadrill (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Rapid Spin

    My favorite exca set in ubers, it needs sand up to rech its full potential. Switch in on hazard putters or things it walls (lugia, deo-s, zekrom, skarm, ferro, forry)
    Set up sub on the switch, and either spin away or wear your opponent down with toxic/earthquake until your free to spin.
    Beats annoying spinblockers like arceus ghost (bar the rare refresh) and gira-o, as well as pretty much rendering lugia useless.
    The only thing that can prevent it from spinning is rest giratina, and it functions as a great late game sweeper.

    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 84 SDef / 156 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar
    - Dragon Tail

    What makes Giratina-O a better speed shuffler, in my opinion, than giratina is its slightly higher attack, but most of all, immunity to spikes and eq, making it a great counter to Groudon. This EV spread ensures that it can live and outspeed specs kyogre (unless + spd -_-), ho-oh, living +2 shadow claw arceus normal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  38. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Why would you not run Adamant Zekrom?
     
  39. kk420

    kk420 Ladies and gentlemen, man

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    oh forgot to put nature on there
     
  40. Amon

    Amon Normal User

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Phillipx or Phillipz
    Speaking of things underraetd in Ubers....
    [​IMG]
    Ill post a sheddie set later...