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[Final] Swanna

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU Analyses' started by TacoBell, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. TacoBell

    TacoBell i'm a noob ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    On wiki

    [​IMG]

    ==General==
    *Average offensives stats (base 87)
    *Mediocre defensive typing: 4x weak to electric & sr weak
    *frail
    *base 98 speed is pretty nice; can outspeed majority of tier
    *gets perfect coverage with its stab moves alone
    *best used in rain since surf gets boosted & hurricane becomes 100% accurate
    *is a badass duck

    {{set|name=Offensive Rain Dance|pkmn=Swanna|item=Life Orb|ability=Hydration|ev= 252 Spe / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef|nature=Timid|move1=Surf|move2=Hurricane|move3=Rain Dance|move4=Roost|move42=Ice Beam}}

    *timid nature is needed to outspeed stuff like haunter, rotom-s, rotom-f, sawk, etc
    *evs let it be fast and powerful as possible
    *life orb is needed since swanna needs all the power it can get
    *this set works best in rain, so rain setter for teammate is nice
    *surf is strong water type stab move
    *hurricane hits grass-types that resist surf (roselia, vileplume, etc), and is very strong
    *rain dance to set up rain: powers up surf, activates hydration, makes hurricane 100% accurate
    *roost for increased longevity (sr + lo recoil can add up quickly)
    *ice beam is an option to OHKO altaria

    {{set|name=Offensive SubRoost|pkmn=Swanna|item=Life Orb|ability=Hydration|ev= 252 Spe / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef|nature=Timid|move1=Surf|move2=Hurricane|move3=Substitute|move4=Roost}}

    *Substitute lets it scout moves and protect it from status (can set up on pokemon like alomomola, torkoal, etc)
    *Roost is for healing health since Sub+ LO adds up; also forms the SubRoost combo!
    *Surf and Hurricane are STAB and provide perfect coverage

    ==Other Options==
    *not many options
    *rest can be used with hydration, but roost is more reliable in case rain isn't up
    *can use damp rock if it's using rain dance to increase how long rain lasts, but it needs the power from lo
    *can use air slash>hurricane if outside or rain/worried about accuracy, but the power drop is rather noticeable and not worth it
    *tailwind is sorta a niche option, but can be useful to let swanna/team outspeed stuff
    *has support moves like toxic and aqua ring and featherdance etc, but better left for other pokemon since it's too frail
    *can use choice specs for raw power, but life orb is usually superior since it lets swanna switch moves & swanna has such good coverage

    ==Checks and Counters==
    *rotom-s and rotom-f can survive a hit and ohko with t-bolt/volt switch
    *zebstrika, raichu, electabuzz, etc outspeed and ohko with tbolt/volt switch
    *lickilicky can tank any hit no problem and toxic stall; also can have cloud nine to negate rain boost to surf and stuff
    *specially defensive altaria can too, but must watch out for ice beam
    *specially defensive mandibuzz also handles swanna ez; all moves only 3hko it
    *mantine can deal with swanna very well too[/HIDE]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2013
  2. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Damp Rock is worth a mention as a hold item, for more Rain. Also acts as team support then.
     
  3. TacoBell

    TacoBell i'm a noob ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    i already mentioned it in oo
    personally, i think lo is usually the better item, but if qc wants me to change it to like a slash or whatever, then i will
     
  4. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Oops, sorry, must've missed that. I was skimming cause I had to leave for work. D:
     
  5. emac

    emac Emad

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    I like it! Swanna doesn't really have too many options. Mention specs in the OO, but everything else looks good.
     
  6. TacoBell

    TacoBell i'm a noob ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Okay, added specs!
     
  7. Treecko

    Treecko I'm a joker,

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    I think sub deserves a slash over ice beam, mostly because you already have hurricane for grass types. Sub roost LO Swanna easily sets up on mons like alomomola and other similar water types. That set has easily become one of my favorites in nu. Sub roost is also more of a stand-alone set than if it has rain dance for support, so idk if it should have a different set all together or not.
     
  8. 49.

    49. Active Member

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    Honestly, with Ice Beam hitting "just Altaria", as you mention, does it really deserve it's own slash? I mean, any Altaria coming into a Hurricane is promptly 2HKOed with SR support most of the time (Max/Max Calm Altaria takes 38.13 - 45.19% from Hurricane, evening out tot about a 90% chance to take 2 after SR), and again, it's one semi-common 'mon. You don't have to take my advice, but I would think the slashes would look better as something like this:
    Rain Dance
    Hydro Pump / Surf (power v.accuracy)
    Hurricane
    Roost
    Perhaps re-labeling the set as "Offensive Rain Dance", or something to properly reflect it. Swanna is basically Rain-based anyway, and that would better reflect it than just saying it's offensive.
     
  9. TacoBell

    TacoBell i'm a noob ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    @treecko: that sounds like a very intriguing set that i definitely want to try when i have time (school sux); i'll let qc weigh in and see if they want it or not, though
    @49.: similar to treecko, i'll let qc decide

    thanks for all the suggestions ^_^
     
  10. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Agreeing with Treecko and 49, Sub definitely needs to be slashed over Ice Beam, and the Offensive Rain Dance with RD > Sub is needed as well
     
  11. TacoBell

    TacoBell i'm a noob ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    sorry, i've been pretty lazy/busy lately & kinda forgot about this
    so i'm kinda confused and not sure if i did the slashes correctly so please go over that
    also, i added subroost as a different set since it plays rather differently than rain dance, but idk if you want that to be just all one set or what
    (i've been using it extensively on my new team and it's the mvp so far)
    so yeah
     
  12. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Offensive Rain Dance

    - Surf / Hydro Pump
    - Hurricane
    - Rain Dance
    - Roost / Ice Beam

    Offensive SubRoost

    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Surf / Hydro Pump
    - Hurricane
     
  13. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I'd slash Air Slash after Hurricane on the offensive SubRoost, as you may wanna rely on something a little more accurate if there isn't any rain. *shrugs*
     
  14. TacoBell

    TacoBell i'm a noob ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Thanks
    Fixed slashes and everything
     
  15. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Approved
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  16. The Real Elmo

    The Real Elmo Caterpie hungers...

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    Nothing else to do here
    Approved
     
  17. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Maybe slash Scald with Surf on the second set and mention Alomomola in CC.

    After those ^

    Approved :)
     
  18. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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  19. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    updated

    {{Header}}

    {{Tier|BW2 NU}}

    {{Overview|One of the fifth generation's more forgettable inclusions, Swanna brings some unique traits to the table. While its Water/Electric typing is rare, three of the four evolutionary lines that have this typing are unfortunately stuck with Swanna in NU (with only Gyarados surviving in OU), and this means it has to rely on what makes it unique in order to stand out.

    While both Pelipper and Mantine are considerably bulkier, Swanna works best by simply going offensive. It may not have Mantine's Swift Swim, or Pelipper's combination of bulk and reasonable power, however it does have the highly useful Hydration, which keeps it immune to status while it is raining, and its far superior Speed stat means it functions well outside of rain too, making it a lot more versatile. It also packs more raw power than either Pelipper or Mantine too (albeit not a lot).

    While frail, Swanna's typing, combined with its movepool, ability and base stats, means it fits on offensive teams very well. Whether it's setting its own rain or receiving support from another pokemon, Swanna takes to rain teams like a duck to water.}}

    {{Set|Offensive Rain Setter|
    Swanna @ Life Orb
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Surf / Scald
    - Hurricane
    - Rest / Ice Beam}}

    {{Comments|With a Timid nature and its respectable base 98 Speed, Swanna is ready to outrun and punish a lot of the NU tier with its powerful STAB moves.

    Its base 87 Special Attack may not be amazing, but with investment, a Life Orb, and a potential power boost from the rain, it hits hard and fast, cleaning up slower teams with little effort. Rain Dance in slot 1 is obligatory on this set, being a rain setter, while both STAB options in 2 and 3 benefit greatly from the rain. Surf is listed because Swanna sadly does not get Hydro Pump, while Scald packs a little less power, but can burn opponents and give Swanna a chance to tank a hit or two, or perhaps force a switch. Both are viable, and both get double STAB boosts because of the rain.

    Hurricane in slot 3 is Swanna's main trump card, never missing whilst the rain is falling, and also packing astonishing power, plus a chance of confusing the opponent, which can also force switches. Combined with the Water STAB, very few pokemon resist both of Swanna's STAB moves, making for a great combination.

    Lastly, Rest and Ice Beam inhabit slot 4. The latter combines well with the rain and Swanna's ability Hydration to heal it fully, as long as the rain is still falling. Ice Beam on the other hand gives Swanna an easier time against Altaria and Cradily, two pokemon that, while hit hard by Hurricane, can still be a nuisance to Swanna because of their bulk and typing or abilities. Cloud Nine Altaria in particular can be a problem, because it can cancel out Swanna's rain, thus ruining its entire moveset except for Ice Beam.

    The EVs are simple, due to Swanna being a simple pokemon. Both the Speed and Special Attack are maxed out to make the most of Swanna's most usable stats, with the remaining 4 dropped into Special Defence just in case there's a Porygon floating around, hoping to get a Special Attack boost from Download. The Life Orb is practically a given hold item for this set, because Swanna's base 87 offences need all the power they can get, however you can also consider the Damp Rock if you want Swanna's rain to last a bit longer. This can let it act as more of a team support than just a late game cleaner.}}

    {{Options|Outside of the listed set, Swanna's options aren't great.

    Substitute can be used to give Swanna a buffer from status, priority and random Choice Scarf users, which is always useful. Roost can be used instead of Rest if you feel you can't rely on the rain, or have some dire urge to try and tank a couple of Ice moves.

    Air Slash can be used instead of Hurricane for the same reasons as Roost, however the loss of power is horribly noticeable, and even Air Slash isn't all that reliable. Brave Bird can be used on unorthodox mixed sets, as Swanna tends to get all the type coverage it needs out of just its STABs, but special walls like Grumpig and Mantine will give it trouble. Brave Bird can smack most of the tier's special walls for heavy damage, making it a worthwhile idea to consider if you're out of ideas for the last move. Various Hidden Powers can also be used for very specific targets, such as Electric for the troublesome Mantine.

    Toxic can help break down opposing walls, but Swanna's frailty stops this from being too useful an idea (however Rest and Hydration makes Swanna very difficult for stall teams to deal with anyway). Tailwind can speed up the team for all of three turns, but this is generally considered a waste of time. Icy Wind can slow down opponents, which can make things difficult for Choice Scarf users that are naturally slower than Swanna, with Sawk being the prime example because of Icy Wind breaking its Sturdy.

    The Choice Scarf or Specs can be tried for an immediate stat boost, however Swanna's great coverage with just its STAB moves, coupled with its frailty and poor defensive typing, generally means that it won't function too well with Choice items.}}

    {{Checks|Swanna may be a good late game cleaner, but its lack of raw power means that bulky opponents can usually stand up to it, and even overpower under the right situations.

    As previously mentioned, its type rival Mantine is a fairly good stop to Swanna, tanking Hurricanes fairly well due to its amazing special bulk, and either absorbing Swanna's Water STABs, or abusing Swanna's rain with its Swift Swim. Either way, Mantine has a big advantage against Swanna, and while Hurricane does have a small chance of 2HKOing after Stealth Rock damage, Mantine will pretty much always win against Swanna one on one.

    Other special walls in the tier, particularly Lickilicky, can tank Swanna's moves very well, and either stall it out with Wish and Protect, or simply Body Slam it to death. Lickilicky must watch out for Scald burns or Hurricane confusion, but it tends to stop Swanna in its tracks. Other specially defensive pokemon like Altaria and Mandibuzz must watch out for Ice Beams, but otherwise handle Swanna well due to reliable recovery in Roost, and while the likes of Grumpig and Regice tank hits well, their lack of recovery means that Swanna can wear them down fairly quickly.

    A few of the tier's Electric-types are faster than Swanna (Raichu, Zebstrika and Electrode being notable examples), and as long as they can switch in safely - this is fairly easy, because Swanna's first move is often Rain Dance - they can simply pummel the bird with an Electric STAB. Swanna's quadruple weakness means that it is guaranteed OHKOed by about any Electric move.

    While unconventional to the point of hilarious, Swift Swim Armaldo is a surprise check to Swanna, luring it in with its Water weakness, outrunning in the rain, and easily OHKOing with its powerful Stone Edge.

    Lastly, about anything with a Choice Scarf and a hard hitting STAB can revenge kill Swanna fairly easily. Even non STAB Stone Edges and Thunder Punches will KO the frail bird.}}

    {{footer}}
     
  20. RedJoker25

    RedJoker25 Resident Lurker Server Moderator Article Contributor Server Moderator Article Contributor

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    Grammar checked and reuploaded.

    Text
    {{Header}}

    {{Tier|BW2 NU}}

    {{Overview|One of the fifth generation's more forgettable inclusions, Swanna brings some unique traits to the table. While its Water / Flying typing is rare, three of the four evolutionary lines that have this typing are unfortunately stuck with Swanna in NU (with only Gyarados surviving in OU), and this means it has to rely on what makes it unique in order to stand out.

    Whereas Pelipper and Mantine are considerably bulkier, Swanna works best by simply going offensive. It may not have Mantine's Swift Swim or Pelipper's combination of bulk and reasonable power, but it does have the highly useful Hydration, which keeps it immune to status while it is raining. Its far superior Speed means it functions well outside of rain too, making it a lot more versatile. It also packs more raw power than either Pelipper or Mantine (albeit not a lot).

    Although frail, Swanna's typing, movepool, ability and base stats, mean it fits on offensive teams well. Whether it's setting its own rain or receiving support from another Pokémon, Swanna takes to rain teams like a duck to water.}}

    {{Set|Offensive Rain Setter|
    Swanna @ Life Orb
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Surf / Scald
    - Hurricane
    - Rest / Ice Beam}}

    {{Comments|With a Timid nature and its respectable base 98 Speed, Swanna is ready to outrun and punish a lot of the NU tier with its powerful STAB moves.

    Its base 87 Special Attack may not be amazing, but with investment, a Life Orb, and a potential power boost from the rain, it hits hard and fast, cleaning up slower teams with little effort. Rain Dance is obligatory on this set, being a rain setter, while both STAB options benefit greatly from the rain. Surf is listed because Swanna does not get Hydro Pump, while Scald packs less power but can burn opponents, giving Swanna a chance to tank a hit or force a switch. Both are viable, and both get double boosts because of the rain.

    Hurricane is Swanna's trump card, never missing whilst rain is falling while also packing astonishing power plus a chance to confuse the opponent, which can also force switches. Few Pokémon resist both of Swanna's STAB moves, making for a great combination.

    Lastly, Rest and Ice Beam inhabit slot 4. The former combines well with falling rain and Hydration to heal Swanna fully. On the other hand, Ice Beam gives Swanna an easier time against Altaria and Cradily, two Pokémon that are hit hard by Hurricane but are still nuisances to Swanna because of their bulk and typing or abilities. Cloud Nine Altaria in particular can be a problem, because it cancels out the effects of rain, ruining Swanna's entire moveset except for Ice Beam.

    The EVs are simple due to Swanna being a simple Pokémon. Speed and Special Attack are maxed to make the most of Swanna's most usable stats, with the remaining 4 EVs dropped into Special Defence just in case there's a Porygon floating around, hoping to get a Special Attack boost from Download. Life Orb is practically a given as the hold item for this set, because Swanna's base 87 offences need all the power they can get. You can also consider Damp Rock if you want Swanna's rain to last longer, letting it act as more of a team supporter than just a late game cleaner.}}

    {{Options|Outside of the listed set, Swanna's options aren't great.

    Substitute can be used to give Swanna a buffer from status, priority, and random Choice Scarf users, which is always useful. Roost can be used instead of Rest if you feel you can't rely on rain or have some urge to try and tank Ice moves.

    Air Slash can be used instead of Hurricane for the same reasons as Roost, but the loss of power is noticeable, and even Air Slash isn't all that reliable. Brave Bird can be used on mixed sets as Swanna tends to get all the type coverage it needs out of just its STABs, but special walls like Grumpig and Mantine will give it trouble. Brave Bird can smack most of these special walls for heavy damage, making it a worthwhile idea to consider if you're out of ideas for the last move. Various Hidden Powers can also be used for specific targets, such as Electric for the troublesome Mantine.

    Toxic can help break down opposing walls, but Swanna's frailty stops this from being too useful (Rest and Hydration make Swanna difficult for stall teams to deal with anyway). Tailwind can speed up the team for three turns, but this is generally considered a waste of time. Icy Wind can slow down opponents, which can make things difficult for Choice Scarf users that are naturally slower than Swanna, with Sawk being the prime example because of Icy Wind also breaking its Sturdy.

    Choice Scarf or Specs can be tried for an immediate stat boost, but Swanna's great coverage with just its STAB moves, coupled with its frailty and poor defensive typing, generally means that it won't function too well with Choice items.}}

    {{Checks|Swanna may be a good late game cleaner, but its lack of raw power means that bulky opponents can usually stand up to and potentially overpower it.

    As previously mentioned, type rival Mantine is a fairly good stop to Swanna, tanking Hurricane fairly well due to its amazing special bulk while either absorbing Swanna's Water STABs or abusing Swanna's rain with Swift Swim. Either way, Mantine has a big advantage against Swanna; while Hurricane has a small chance of 2HKOing after Stealth Rock damage, Mantine will pretty much always win against Swanna one on one.

    Other special walls in the tier, particularly Lickilicky, can tank Swanna's moves well and either stall it out with Wish and Protect or Body Slam it to death. Lickilicky must watch out for Scald burns or Hurricane confusion but tends to stop Swanna in its tracks. Other specially defensive Pokémon like Altaria and Mandibuzz must watch out for Ice Beam but otherwise handle Swanna well due to reliable recovery in Roost. The likes of Grumpig and Regice tank hits well, but their lack of recovery means that Swanna can wear them down fairly quickly.

    A few of the tier's Electric-types are faster than Swanna (Raichu, Zebstrika, and Electrode being notable examples), and as long as they can switch in safely - this is fairly easy, because Swanna's first move is often Rain Dance - they can simply pummel the bird with an Electric STAB. Swanna's quadruple weakness means that it is guaranteed to be OHKOed by just about any Electric move.

    While unconventional, Swift Swim Armaldo is a surprise check to Swanna, as it can lure Swanna in with its Water weakness, outrun in the rain, and easily OHKO with its powerful Stone Edge.

    Lastly, about anything with a Choice Scarf and a hard hitting STAB can revenge kill Swanna fairly easily. Even a non-STAB Stone Edge and Thunder Punch will KO the frail bird.}}

    {{footer}}

    Comments:
    Water / Electric -> Water / Flying was the big thing