1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Guest, PO has ceased our separate tiering and adopted Smogon tiers for SM. More information and updates here.

    Dismiss Notice

[Final] Simisage

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU Analyses' started by Spoovo The Pirate, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    162
    updated

    {{Header}}

    {{Tier|BW2 NU}}

    {{Overview|When the elemental monkeys were first released, everyone speculated that they'd be on par with Unova's starters, due to sharing the same typing and generation. However, when tested, these little monkeys didn't quite make the grade, with only typing and physical differences setting the three apart, and none of them really standing out.
    Although, despite their identical BST, base Speeds of 101 and 98 Attack and Special Attack are pretty decent, hitting pretty hard by NU standards.

    Simisage itself tells a different story, however. Having the shallowest movepool of the three, it's the hardest pressed to run an effective set, and pure Grass typing also makes things tricky. But there is one advantage in Grass typing; the resistances.

    Being a Grass-type means that Simisage can scare off Water-, Rock- and Ground-types, which are everywhere in NU, building momentum and turning the odds in your favour. While Grass also suffers a fair amount of weaknesses, if you play the herbal chimp to its strengths, you can see just how effective it can be.}}

    {{Set|Curious George|
    Simisage @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
    Trait: Gluttony / Overgrow
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice
    - Nasty Plot / Leaf Storm}}

    {{Comments|A base 98 Special Attack may seem underwhelming on paper, however when combined with the Life Orb and Simisage's respectable base 101 Speed, it makes for a surprisingly efficient late game cleaner.

    Giga Drain is the only listed move in slot 1, being a relatively powerful STAB that also does a great job at keeping Simisage healthy. Focus Blast in slot 2 is its best coverage option, breaking into the Steel-types that resist its Grass STABs, as well as special walls like Regice and Lickilicky, who would otherwise walk all over this set.

    Hidden Powers Rock and Ice are increased coverage, the former hitting Fire-types, Bug-types and Flying-types - three types which will commonly want to switch into Simisage - for super effective damage, while Hidden Power Ice is useful against opposing Grass-types and the annoying Altaria, as well as other Flying-types. Both are perfectly viable, and which you choose depends on what your team has more trouble handling.

    Lastly, slot 4 is the functional moveslot. Nasty Plot is sadly illegal with Overgrow, but it boosts Simisage to +2, and really helps it power through special walls like the aforementioned Lickilicky. Leaf Storm however packs a lot more power, and is perfectly legal with Overgrow, straining out the last of Simisage's viable movepool for the opportunity to simply nuke targets.

    A Timid nature is used to make the most of Simisage's base stats, while the EVs are simple, geared towards Special sweeping. The 4 remaining EVs are placed into Special Defence just in case of a rare Porygon assault. The Life Orb is the given hold item for any sets considering using Nasty Plot in slot 4, while Leaf Storm users may prefer the Choice Specs for more raw power and hole punching ability. The Choice Scarf is also perfectly viable in the Choice Specs' place if you need something for revenge killing.}}

    {{Set|SubSalac|
    Simisage @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Overgrow / Gluttony
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest nature (+SAtk / -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Energy Ball / Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power Ice / Nasty Plot}}

    {{Comments|Just like its Water-type cousin Simipour, Simisage is also perfectly capable of running the SubSalac strategy.

    With 4 HP EVs, its HP divides by 4 perfectly, meaning it can Substitute down three times, then activate its Salac Berry and Overgrow at the same time, giving it a huge power and Speed boost at the same time. The Special Attack and Speed are then maxed out for optimal sweeping chances.

    Energy Ball is listed over Giga Drain on this set so that Simisage can stay in Overgrow range, and thus retain the power boost. However, if you're using Gluttony in tandem with Nasty Plot in slot 4, Giga Drain is by far the higher recommended option, keeping Simisage as healthy as possible while abusing the Salac Berry's Speed boost. Gluttony will even make sure it activates faster, making it a worthwhile trade-off.

    Focus Blast is the primary coverage in slot 3, hitting Steel-types and special walls for heavy damage at the cost of maybe missing due to its woeful 70% accuracy. Lastly, Hidden Power Ice is the main listed Hidden Power option for getting past Altaria and bulky Grass-types like Vileplume. Focus Blast hits most of the common switch ins hard enough aside from some Bug-types, which can be taken care of by other team members. If Hidden Power Ice doesn't appeal or isn't needed, Nasty Plot is viable here too, giving Simisage a great power boost if you believe you can sweep with just Giga Drain and Focus Blast.}}

    {{Set|Furious George|
    Simisage @ Life Orb / Flying Gem
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Seed Bomb
    - Crunch
    - Brick Break / Superpower
    - Hone Claws / Acrobatics}}

    {{Comments|Physical Simisage may seem like a novelty at first, but sometimes novelty is the reason to use something. The elemental monkeys have identical offensive stats, so a physical set would surprise opponents more often than not, coming off worse when the usual Regice switch in gets 2HKOed by a Life Orb Brick Break. Other specially defensive behemoths like Grumpig will be hard pressed to survive against a physical Simisage as well, taking 72% - 86% from an unboosted Life Orb Crunch. It might not be as powerful as the special set, but it has a lot more to work with, doesn't have to rely on inaccurate moves like Focus Blast, and works well in the right situations.

    Seed Bomb is the obligatory STAB, easily 2HKOing specially defensive Mantine and even Alomomola, while the aforementioned Crunch and Brick Break offer great neutral coverage. Brick Break is the reliable move in slot 3, hitting for a solid 75 base power every time, however Superpower hits much harder on the first turn, decimating special walls like Lickilicky with the only drawback of lowering Simisage's Attack and Defence after usage. If you don't mind switching out more often, Superpower is definitely worth a try.

    Finally, slot 4 has Hone Claws and Acrobatics. The former gives Simisage a nice Attack boost, which will help its chances of late game sweeping, however Acrobatics gives Simisage a decent way past opposing Grass- and Bug-types, combining with the Flying Gem for obscene power. Both are perfectly viable, and it only really depends on how well opposing Grass- and Bug-types are covered. If you need to lure out and remove (or at least severely weaken) them, Acrobatics just may appeal. Simisage's other physical options are Rock Slide and Return, if none of slot 4's main listed moves are working well for you.

    Overgrow is the listed ability on this set because nothing is illegal with it, Simisage can actually make use of it should its HP drop below 33%. You could use Substitute in slot 4 to help this effect if you want, but it generally isn't necessary.}}

    {{Options|Simisage's movepool is pretty scarce, so there aren't a lot of options available to it other than what's already been listed.

    Bullet Seed can serve as another physical STAB, packing decent power and giving it the chance to beat Substitute users. Grass Knot is another special STAB that can be used, however justifying its use over Giga Drain would be difficult at best, due to the NU tier being fairly light on average. The same applies to Low Kick over Brick Break on the physical side.

    Low Sweep can slow down Choice Scarf users or fast switch-ins, making them easier for Simisage to handle. Work Up can be used to attempt a mixed sweeping set, however Simisage doesn't like splitting its EVs very much, aside from maybe just throwing Leaf Storm on an otherwise physical set to catch out a Regirock or something. Other Hidden Power types are worth considering, such as Hidden Power Fire or Ground for the specific coverage they offer.

    Endeavor's an interesting last-ditch option to weaken something before dying. Lastly, it's worth noting that all egg moves other than Leaf Storm are sadly illegal with Overgrow, and thus must use Gluttony. Nasty Plot's the only egg move worth using other than Leaf Storm however, so this isn't a big problem.}}

    {{Checks|Regice does well against special sets, however it won't like a +2 Focus Blast at all, and can't take the physical sets, being 2HKOed by a Life Orb Brick Break. However, if it can get in safely, it can easily OHKO Simisage with a STAB Ice Beam. Other special walls like Lickilicky and Grumpig are less effective, but can still slow Simisage down fairly well.

    Opposing bulky Grass-types beat the special sets as long as it lacks Hidden Power Ice. Vileplume would be one of the strongest answers, packing a STAB Sludge Bomb for an easy OHKO. Eviolite Roselia is also a strong mention, for basically the same reasons as Vileplume. Note that most Grass-types other than Tangela will struggle against sets that run Acrobatics, however.

    Metang can tank any common move Simisage runs, and power through the grass monkey with a combination of Zen Headbutt, Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch. Bulky Poison-types like Muk, Drapion and Skuntank are all strong answers, due to Simisage rarely packing anything that hits them hard. At the worst, Skuntank may have to tank a Superpower, but it can easily smite Simisage with either its Poison Jab or priority Sucker Punch, while Muk shuts the special sets down completely, and Drapion can tank any hit with ease.

    If all else fails, simply battering Simisage with hard hitting moves will bring it down fairly quickly. It might be hard to outrun if it's received a Salac Berry boost, however even then all you'd need is a Choice Scarf user.}}

    {{footer}}
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
  2. meeps

    meeps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    PO Trainer Name:
    meeps
    All of the sets should have Overgrow over Gluttony, as it is released now and the sets you've listed have no use of berries.

    Speaking of berries, SubSalac deserves a mention with Gluttony.
     
  3. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    162
    Yeah, I was gonna list Overgrow, as I knew it'd been released. But it's only released with one egg move, correct?

    I wasn't sure on which one it was, and couldn't find the thread, so I thought I'd just wait for one of you guys to comment. Lazy mode ftw? :D
     
  4. meeps

    meeps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    PO Trainer Name:
    meeps
    Nasty Plot appears to be illegal with Overgrow, so I guess it should be slashed with Gluttony as Overgrow Leaf Storm is legal.

    All moves on the physical attacker set are legal with Overgrow, so Gluttony should be replaced.
     
  5. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    162
    Okeydokey, thanks for saying. I'll get onto that. :3
     
  6. Incon

    Incon I feel incapable of seeing the end.

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    45
    For the first set, i think Substitute deserves a slash next to Nasty Plot and Leaf Storm. With its new ability, Simisage can effectively abuse the move to get down to Overgrow range and sweep. Its great base speed still allows it to outspeed most of the tier and its decent Special Attack is good enough to sweep weakened teams when in Overgrow range.
     
  7. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    162
    That is true. Want Energy Ball slashed in with Giga Drain too? Cause Giga Drain will obviously take him out of Overgrow range and ruin the entire idea, lol.
     
  8. The Real Elmo

    The Real Elmo Caterpie hungers...

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    33
    I agree with the energy ball slash over Giga Drain. Giga should still be the main option though, to offset the HP loss from LO.

    Substitute definitely deserves a slash on both sets. Mainly the physical set to protect against scald burns.

    I see Simisage gets Superpower. This could be slashed over the other fighting moves in the physical set just for the additional KO's it would net, instead of just a mention
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  9. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    162
    OK, I've edited things. It's looking a wee bit cluttered, and I'm wondering if I should perhaps split sets to save on said clutter, but apart from Superpower going into the main slashes, it's done.

    Although, Low Kick doesn't offer much that Brick Break does, as I think Regice is 2HKOed by a Life Orb Brick Break anyway, so I could have Brick Break / Superpower in slot 3? *shrugs*
     
  10. The Real Elmo

    The Real Elmo Caterpie hungers...

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    33
    Use BB/SP over Low Kick imo. constant damage ftw
    Approved
     
  11. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,544
    Likes Received:
    594
    PO Trainer Name:
    Luck>Skill
    Approved
     
  12. Incon

    Incon I feel incapable of seeing the end.

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    45
    Approved