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[Available] Kyurem-B

Discussion in 'Gen 5 OU Analyses' started by Blitzamirin, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin Waluigi! Number one!

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    Heh. This is probably not finished but it's pretty complete. I'd really appreciate suggestions for this one![/HIDE]

    [​IMG]

    ==General==:
    *The highest BST in all of OU, toppling at an astonishing 700.
    *A brutal base 170 Attack lets it destroy even resists with its STAB moves
    *It has a great typing offensively, but a terrible one defensively. Weak to all hazards, especially Stealth Rock, is not ideal for a Pokemon like this
    *It has a rather mediocre base 95, which is just bad in this fast paced metagame, as it is outsped by Pokemon such as Terrakion, Jirachi, and Keldeo.
    *It has a terrible physical movepool, with no Ice STAB to abuse. It does however have a base 120 Special Attack which allows it to easily go Mixed
    *Scizor is public enemy #1

    == Substitute ==
    Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 HP / 212 Atk / 240 Spe
    Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
    - Substitute
    - Ice Beam / Blizzard
    - Earth Power
    - Fusion Bolt

    Set Comments:
    *HP EVs give it 405 HP and 101 Subs. It is useful for SR. Speed-creeps Mamoswine with the given EVs.
    *Substitute is the fabulous move that allows Kyurem-B to hide behind a protective barrier that eases prediction.
    *Ice Beam hits Gliscor, Landorus, Dragonite, Salamence and Donphan for the OHKO. It also hits Celebi, Breloom, and Latias. Blizzard is even more destructive, but it should only be used on Hail teams, and one must be wary of the lower PP.
    *Earth Power hits Tentacruel, Jirachi, Heatran, Terrakion, and Ninetales. It also hits Gengar, Bronzong, and Rotom-W through their abilities thanks to Teravolt.
    *Fusion Bolt hits the Water types such as Gyarados and Starmie. It also hits Chansey or Blissey.

    == Shuffler ==
    Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 136 SpD / 56 Spe
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Substitute
    - Hone Claws
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roost

    Set Comments:
    *Uses its useful resistances and high defenses to shuffle Pokemon around. It loves the help of hazards and it is potent against Rain / Stall teams.
    *Substitute acts a barrier and protects you from status such as Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave.
    *Hone Claws raises your Attack to dangerous levels, while it makes Dragon Tail 100% accurate.
    *Dragon Tail is the main and only move of the set; its main focus is to spread Pokemon around while hazards are up, racking up high damage thanks to Kyurem-B's colossal Attack. The inability to miss is mitigated by Hone Claws
    *Roost restores health lost by hazards such as Stealth Rock and HP lost by the Sub. It extends Kyurem-B's longevity and extends its usefulness throughout the match.
    *56 Speed EVs allows it to outspeed Adamant Breloom and put a Sub in its face before the Spore.

    == Choice Scarf ==
    Kyurem-B @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Naughty Nature (+Atk / -SpD) or Naive Nature (+Spe / -SpD)
    - Outrage
    - Ice Beam
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Dragon Claw

    Set Comments:
    *Patches up Kyurem-B's relatively shallow Speed and allows it to become a revenge killer.
    *Outrage destroys anything that does not resist it. Pretty simple.
    *Ice Beam utilizies Kyurem-B's weaker attacking stat, but it hits Gliscor and Landorus-T for the OHKO. It also allows it to damage Pokemon such as Celebi.
    *Fusion Bolt is for Skarmory and Water-types such as Jellicent, Keldeo, and Vaporeon.
    *Dragon Claw is a relatively constant STAB attack that allows you to not lock yourself into confusion.
    *You can run a Naughty Nature to not hamper your Special Attack and increase your Attack, since you only miss out on things such as Scarf Rotom-W, and Scarf Landorus-T, who are not that threatening to Kyurem-B, and the attack boost is appreciated. You can run Naive if you want to outspeed these Pokemon, however.
    *Nature decreases the damage done by priority attacks, mainly Bullet Punch and Mach Punch.

    == Other Options ==
    *Life Orb on a Mixed Set with moves such as Hidden Power Fire and Earth Power. Main focus is to destroy Forretress through Sturdy, Scizor, and dent Ferrothorn heavily (and all of these are susceptible to being KO'd in the Sun).
    *Choice Band set to make it arguably the most powerful wallbreaker in the game, destroying even Steel types with its powerful Outrages.
    *Freeze Shock is Kyurem's only powerful physical Ice STAB, and even though it has a paralysis chance, it is a terrible move that requires a charge up turn, which gives the opponent a free turn to switch in something like Scizor and eliminate it.
    *Glaciate slows down faster foes such as Terrakion, Latios, Starmie, and Gengar so Kyurem-B can destroy them with its high powered moves the next turn.

    == Checks and Counters: ==
    *Scizor is the bane all of Kyurem-B. Barring Hidden Power Fire, it can switch in on Kyurem-B and utterly destroy it with Bullet Punch (though it has to be after Stealth Rock as Kyurem-B normally lives one). Breloom can also fulfill this role, although it has to be careful about switching in, and can actually Spore a potential switch in.
    *Good luck switching in on its Outrages if you are not Steel type. Skarmory and Jirachi have reliable recovery to withstand the assaults and retaliate by either setting up hazards, phazing it, or hitting it with Iron Head.
    *The Musketeers...Terrakion and Keldeo can defeat Kyurem-B with their Fighting STAB. The same can be said about faster Dragon types such as Haxorus, Hydreigon, Salamence, and Latios.
    *Hazards are great as they wear down Kyurem-B with a relatively fast pace.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2013
  2. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    hp fire deserves a slash on the scarf set. Replace icy wind with glaciate in OO as it completely outclasses it. Something needs to change on the first set +special attack nature, no special attack ev's attack ev's, no dragon stab, only one physical move. On the second set there is nothing wrong with dragon tail/roost but it probably should not be paired with sub/hone claws I would consider replacing them with fusion bolt/outrage to help it take on the water types it likes switching in on hp fire/icebeam are other options as well. I'll take another look later but this could definitely be improved I know Kyurem-B is a hard one due to its poor movepool.
     
  3. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin Waluigi! Number one!

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    Yeah when I finished this, I ranted in a channel about how shit it looked :|

    Also, Kyurem-B doesn't get Glaciate (to my understanding).
     
  4. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Personally not a huge fan of Sub without Roost on a SR weak Pokemon, like Kyurem-B. Don't think that set, specifically, should be listed first because it is mainly a special attacking one and Kyurem-B has base 180 physical attack.
    I'd mention Choice Scarf, first.
    Then, the set you have listed first. Finally, list the hone claws set. However, hone claws is great but, Sub/Roost/DragonClaw/Fusion Bolt with some bulk works well, too. I personally like it better.
    Also, maybe a CB set, since it is the tiers strongest WallBreaker with decent bulk...although it is revenges simply, stall is fucked over.
    I know some / all of these are in OO but, Kyurem-B is versatile and has many viable sets.
     
  5. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    It does learn Glaciate @ blitz and finch it has 170 base attack not 180.

    I know how hard it is to choose what Kyruem-B will do so I'll post some sets I've used with success.

    Offensive Hone Claws

    Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 124 Atk / 132 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Hone Claws
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Focus Blast/Blizzard

    Focus blast 2hkos standard Ferrothorn and specially defensive Heatran, speed ev's lets it outspeed everything up to + nature base 80/81's - def nature because it's better at taking moves from bulky waters and 1 turn of life orb recoil/rocks makes scizor 1hko you regardless of the nature. Blizzard is just a nice stab move to have with little to no drawback gives you pseudo bolt beam and swiftly kills landorus-t and gliscor if using blizzard change the ev's to EVs: 116 Atk / 140 SAtk / 252 Spd which allows you to retain the ability to 2hko standard ferrothorn.

    Sub/Hone Claws

    Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 104 HP / 152 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Hone Claws
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Substitute

    Hp ev's allow you to make 5 subs from full hp and prevent seismic toss/night shade from breaking them speed investment is for the same reason as before while remaining ev's are placed in attack this set has a chance to beat non-gyroball ferrothorn as it cannot break your sub with powerwhip.

    Phazer

    Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 232 HP / 24 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Roost
    - Dragon Tail
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Substitute

    Personally I'm not an enormous fan of this set not because it's bad but because it faces a ton of competition from dragonite(multiscale)/regular kyurem (pressure)/hydregion (dark typing/eq makes it a better check to sub/cm jirachi). That being said it does work very well against rain teams walling a large number of their common pokemon including politoed/jirachi/gyroball less ferrothorn/not 2hkoed by tornadus-t's life orb hurricane while you 1hko back if rocks/1 turn of life orb recoil (it's more of a check then a counter).

    Choice Band

    Kyurem-B @ Choice Band
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 216 Atk / 40 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Outrage everything Fusion bolt for steels that aren't 4X weak to fire particularly Skarmory hp fire with those special attack ev's let you 2hko standard ferrothorn from full hp 88 ev's can be used to 1hko standard banded scizor with stealth rocks.

    You've got the scarf set so I think this is about everything.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  6. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin Waluigi! Number one!

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    [​IMG]

    *shrugs*

    I'll add it since it is on PO and w/e.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  7. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    All formes of Kyurem can learn Glaciate, as all they need to do is learn it as normal Kyurem, and then change forme. :3

    Also, I'd give the White Herb + Freeze Shock a mention, as it can mow down just about anything, not to mention potentially bluff a choice item. The obvious drawback is that you've got ONE chance to use it, but People know that already, I guess?
     
  8. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    OO.
    Make sure all the changes listed, are implemented, then,
    Approved.
     
  9. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges The Poll Dancer

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    I support the Mixed Hone Claws set and can't believe CB is in OO.
     
  10. KM007

    KM007 Banned

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    I ran a bulky mixed set.

    ==MixedKyurem==
    Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
    Trait : Teravolt
    EV's 180 SpA/252 HP/76 Atk
    -Ice Beam
    -Roost
    -Fusion Bolt
    -Outrage
     
  11. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Not enough speed.
    Being locked into outrage on that set won't be great, Dragon Claw would be better.
    Dragon type attack isn't even needed, coverage wise - might as well run Earth Power / HP Fire.
    Don't add this set.
     
  12. KM007

    KM007 Banned

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    Meant to put D-Claw on it don't know why I put outrage.... it was just a simple bulky offensive set. Very strong stabs, ele+ice coverage coverage combo, whatever those didnt hit neutrally dragon usually did and very powerfully.
     
  13. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Being outspeed by Dragonite, Breloom, Jirachi, Offensive Heatran, Lucario, Offensive Politoed, Landorus-T (with speed), Mamoswine, and non+Speed Volcarona all thanks to having no speed isn't so great (that is just a small list.)
    Plus, the bulk still leaves you 2HKOd by Scizor, +1 Conkeldurr, and Breloom's priority attacks.
    Also, Stealth Rock weakness and vulnerability to all forms of hazards is crippling - and it'll negate the bulk.
    Threats like Garchomp, Keldeo, Terrakion, and Landorus still OHKO, while Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, Jirachi, and others easily 2HKO it, and beat it with appropriate hazard support.
     
  14. KM007

    KM007 Banned

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    True I guess, I used that set while it was being tested for uu tbh and wasn't sure how well it would do in OU.
     
  15. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    This is a great skeleton Blitz, even though Kyu-B is a hard poke to analyze! I'd really put the Shuffler set after the Choice Scarf one, since the latter is used more/more viable. As far as Freeze Shock goes, it's actually great against stall teams, where few pokes are capable of tanking a boosted Freeze Shock, and where you won't be revenged as daily. You might want to note that, not the not most important thing in the analysis though.
     
  16. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin Waluigi! Number one!

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    I will try to get to this analysis up to date by tomorrow. Kyurem-B just has a boatload of sets and well...yeah
     
  17. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    Ugh I'm stoopid Glaciate only lowers speed by 1 I thought 2 for some reason I don't think it deserves more then an OO mention I'll remove it from my original post.
     
  18. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin Waluigi! Number one!

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    Kyurem-B shouldn't be able to learn it, as I posted in this thread. It's been ignored for the most part :)
     
  19. Fabian

    Fabian ( ͡° _ʖ ͡°)

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    Yoooo Blitzy♥ Not a bad Skeleton I say :] I think, Kyurem-B can use many sets, and also many of them work p well. The first set is one of my fave ones for Kyurem. I used a similar one too, but a more physical based version. Its pretty weird, but really useful (got me to 1500 on the ladder).
    ==Mixed Substitute==
    Kyurem-B @ Dragon Gem
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) / Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Substitute
    - Outrage
    - Ice Beam / Earth Power
    - Fusion Bolt / Ice Beam
    Pretty simple set, dragon gem raises the power of Outrage to hit with CB power. Really useful behind a sub, while having decent coverage with Ice, Ground and Electric.
    The rest of your Skeleton looks good to me, just a few tips: I'd prefer to call the last set "Choice", so you can do Choice Band/Choice Scarf as items. I'm not a huge fan of the shuffle set too at all, but I never really tried it, so I wouldn't remove it.
    That should be the most that I could find, other stuff has been posted already. :]
     
  20. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Personally not a big fan of that - or any dragon gem set, doesn't seem like it'll work that much in the long run, rather gimmicky.
    Maybe OO it?
    Idk if I approved or not but,
    Approved.
     
  21. Fabian

    Fabian ( ͡° _ʖ ͡°)

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    Probably, going to the gimmicky set should be fine, but I'd like it to be in because it worked pretty well (for me at least) :J
    But eh, no matter if it's added or not, i approve as well.
     
  22. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Yeah, I don't think that set should be a main set. Just list it in OO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  23. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges The Poll Dancer

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    CB should not be in OO.
     
  24. Michael

    Michael Lance Dragon Master

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    CB Kyurem-B not even listed as one of its main sets? Strongest Outrage in the game.. OHKOing Lucario and 2hkoing and outspeeding SDef Jirachi? Base 95 speed is by no means slow. Also, CB scizor can't even OHKO with bullet punch and cannot switch in getting promptly 2hkoed.

    I'm not sure why HP fire is not included on any of the sets. The things that you list for Earth power hitting are rarely going to be switching into a Kyurem-B, the point of the Sub-set is to lure and attack with the appropriate coverage. Kyurem attracts thinks like Forretress, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Jirachi who are all nailed by HP fire. It's worth at least slashing, over fusion bolt particularly because of the special attack invest.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  25. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    CB Kyurem-B is obsoleted by Haxorus.
    Haxorus has a much more diverse physically offensive movepool - Superpower, EQ, Aqua Tail, Dual Chop, etc.
    Haxorus has more base speed - out speeding other base 95s, like Kyurem-B.
    Haxorus isn't weak to rock, steel, or fighting.
    Haxorus still 2HKOs most SDef Jirachis (OHKOs w/ EQ), OHKOs Lucario with EQ / Super, and is a better choice bander
     
  26. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges The Poll Dancer

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    Shouldn't anything that's remotely good have a set? CB Kyurem is certainly more viable the Shuffler. It has the strongest Outrage in the game. I may not be the best battler, but I at least know that it deserves more than OO.
     
  27. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    What is wrong with you

    For once, Haxorus can't get past Skarmory with its CB set. Also, good luck locking yourself into EQ / Superpower, both of which have tons of resistances / immunities and make your own Haxorus set up fodder (Also don't tell that you don't just click outrage right away after you send in Haxorus), I mean, might as well use CB Freeze Shock that does basically the same as EQ / Superpower with the same "prediction layer" (opp switches to Ferrothorn? I use Freeze Shock) with some added bonuses such as the paralysis chance and the absurdly high base power

    Also, speaking of outclassed....

    Base Kyurem is better than shuffler Kyurem-B, purely because of Pressure, which is like, the main tool of the set. Also, Choice Scarf goes to OO because it is literally outclassed by Salamence due to superior movepool, Moxie and better speed as well as a slightly better typing that resists to Breloom's Mach Punch, and come on, at least mention Power Herb + Freeze Shock

    And slash Ice Beam with fusion bolt on the shuffler, since hitting Gliscor is important, you can keep the -satk nature, it still does ok dmg to Skarmory and doesn't let Donphan spin
     
  28. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    First off, I was only addressing the choice banded set, not the two pokes in general.
    Haxorus is a sweeper / wall-breaker, while Kyurem-B is much more diverse.
    I think that, in general, Haxorus is a better CB abuser.
    That's why it's only worthy of an OO mention, on Kyurem-B, and not its own set.
    As for Phazer, it's pretty viable on stall, especially with strong d-tail, - so I let it slide, more of a judgement call for whoever is writing the analysis.
    And @Steel,
    If anything that was remotely viable got a set, I could have Expert Belt HP Ice Terrakion's and specs salamences flying throughout the OU wiki - clearly not what we need.
    Although the leniency of sets in Analysises can possibly be widened, it is pretty good now.
    For example, Terrakion only needs - CB, Scarf, SubSD, Double Dance, and Stealth Rocks - while gimmicky sets, like Mixed HP Ice Ebelt or, obsoleted sets, like CM Terrakion, are all OO worthy.
    If the writer feels the set is prominent enough to get its own set, then they can go ahead and do so.
    However, this is one of those judgement calls.
     
  29. Michael

    Michael Lance Dragon Master

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    I fail to see how you can compare CM Terrakion or HP ice with CB Kyurem. This thing was made to abuse CB, and leaving it out is absurd. CB Kyurem B is in no way as gimmicky or even gimmicky at all as you make it out to be.

    Kyurem boasts ridiculous bulk compared to Haxorus, more power, and a neutrality to Ice so it is a good answer to things like Starmie, Jolteon, etc who rely on Boltbeam coverage .

    Also if you look at the usage stats for Kyu b you can clearly see its not simply an OO
     
  30. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    It was a comparison to other things that are obsoleted.
    I could say CB Mence as an example, if you want a better one.
    Regardless, I also said it was a judgement call, OO or its own set.
    Also, if we where to make decisions based on OU stats, Infernape would be better than Deoxys-D, so yeah...no.
     
  31. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Ok after reading through this analysis once again, here's a minor questions.
    What are the attack EVs on the SubShuffler set for?
    As far as the whole Choice Band Kyurem discussion goes: I'd just slash Choice Band next to the Choice Scarf set, name the set "Choice" and write some lines how absurdly powerful its Outrage becomes. I would also put this set in front of the SubShuffling set, since it's inferior imo.
    Just my two cents.
     
  32. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    I want Choice Band Kyurem-B up there because it is so ridiculously strong, only Ferrothorn and the lesser-seen and supposedly "unviable" Steelix can wall it without HP Fire for Ferrothorn, or Focus Blast for Steelix.

    The set mentioned before will do:

    Kyurem-B @ Choice Band
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 216 Atk / 40 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
     
  33. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Available? I want to take it
     
  34. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Finchinator / Finch
    All yours, I guess!