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[Skeleton] Gen 5 1v1 Deoxys-D

Discussion in 'Gen 5 1v1 Analyses' started by Dr. Fuji, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    ==General==
    *Massive Defenses
    *Poor Offenses
    *Middling Speed
    *Mediocre typing

    ==Trick==
    Deoxys-D @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 192 SDef / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Torment
    - Protect/Counter
    - Recover

    *Really, Really annoying if you want to win by rage quit this is your set simply use each move in order and watch them struggle.
    *Trick forces the opponent into using only one move.
    *Torment forces them into struggling every other turn.
    *Protect prevents them from hitting you on the Non-Struggle turn.
    *Recover keeps you healthy.
    *The minimal speed investment allows you to outspeed maximally invested base 100's while the rest of the ev's go towards maximizing bulk while minimizing attack (less confusion recoil/foul play) the ev's can be adjusted to outspeed other threats or shifted to favour one defense.


    ==Staller==
    Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Night Shade
    - Recover
    - Taunt/Magic Coat

    *Toxic is your main method of breaking down walls with slow and steady damage.
    *Night Shade is the most reliable attacking option available dealing decent damage to most things.
    *Recover keeps your HP high while you slowly sap your opponents.
    *Taunt prevents opponents from using status or healing on you while Magic Coat can hit them with their own status including Breloom's Spore.
    *EV's Simply maximize bulk while minimizing attack to lower confusion/Foul Play damage the EV's are highly customizable you can add more to one defense to beat a certain threat or more to speed to taunt something before it moves.

    ==Other Options==
    *Counter can kill a lot of physical attackers.
    *Seismic Toss or Night Shade can protect you from taunters.
    *Cosmic Power can be used on the second set to make you nigh impossible to kill but is generally not worth the slot as the you will be weak to status, unable to heal or unable to deal damage effectively depending on what you replace.


    ==Checks & Counters==
    -Anything with a choice item of their own.
    -Tricking a Toxic Orb can also be the end of you but choosing recover can give you a good chance against many of the guts abusers.
    -Anything with taunt completely shuts Deoxys-D down.
    -Getting hit with Toxic as you Trick.
    -Pokemon with strong super effective STABs do well against the second set such as Gengar, Tyranitar, Scizor, Genesect.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
  2. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Is Cosmic Power worth a slash here? Makes Deo-D nigh invulnerable after a few boosts, maybe OO either.
     
  3. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    I thought about it but really you need to put it over Recover or Protect and both of them will save you more HP in the long run but if others agree I'll add it.
     
  4. KM007

    KM007 Banned

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    I agree with the cosmic power but that's with the toxic recover set. I would like to see it though. Several sets per mon is good.
     
  5. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    It can run a pretty decent stalling set which has better mixed defenses then Blissey which I will add but I still don't think Cosmic Power is worth more then an OO mention as it really needs its other move slots.
     
  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    I've got my own individual set that's very effective in 1v1.. I was trying to make it on the PO Wiki, but after some advice from a staff member on PO was told to contribute in here. I have more sets to contribute for other Pokémon, but I was writing one for Deoxys-D first. Here's what I'd written [The coding most probably requires some fixing, but I think it's very thorough in describing my set.. check my 1v1 ranking if you don't believe I'm competent; this would need some editing in relevance to adding in the sets etc. already mentioned, as well as the section Other Options needs a mixture of what's already been listed, and the one which I've written).



    {{pokeheader}}
    {{TOC}}
    ==General==
    Deoxys-D has a really good set of defensive base stats, perhaps let down by the low base 50 HP, as well as having a solid base 90 speed. Often used as an utility pokemon, it might seem a little odd to use in a metagame which is highly offensive, however its exceptional bulk allows it to stand out as a different sort of threat.

    ==Sets==

    ==PP-stall==
    {{set
    | name = PP-stall
    | pkmn= Deoxys-D
    | item = Leftovers
    | ability = Pressure
    | nature = Timid
    | nature2= Jolly
    | ev = 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
    | ev2= 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    | move1 = Protect
    | move2 = Substitute
    | move3 = Recover
    | move4 = Night Shade
    | move41 = Seismic Toss
    | move42 = Extremespeed
    | gen = 5
    }}

    The objective of this set is to stall the opponent of their PP, and force them to lose through struggle recoil, which, when effective, can prove of great annoyance. The way in which it should be played is slightly flexible, but in most cases substitute should be the first move used, though scouting with protect may be equally viable, depending on the opponents Pokémon, though generally one shouldn't worry when fake-out is used as a lead and substitute was chosen, since Deoxys-d is naturally very bulky and won't be hindered by this, since, firstly, it recovers some of the damage lost via leftovers, secondly, it tells you approximately how powerful the opponents Pokémon is, and that they aren't a choice item user; if it shows life orb recoil damage, then it is clear what item they possess.
    Deoxys-D has maximum speed EVs so as to maximize the opportunity to out-speed the opponents Pokémon, which it is sufficiently capable of with base 90 speed. It is worth noting Sableye with prankster is a fairly common threat, and you cannot, naturally, out-speed any priority move it may use (Examples including but in no way limited to will-o-wisp, substitute); to prepare against Sableye it is recommended to run the first EV set, as well as 0 Attack IVs, to minimize the utility of foul play, which, except on users of counter/mirror coat/metal burst, is the staple offensive move. Night shade is also necessary against Sableye, since, firstly, it is not affected by extremespeed, and secondly, the additional PP it provides is usually what is sufficient to bring Sableye to using struggle - recover is a common move on Sableye so the levels of PP are relevant.
    Against most (offensive) Pokémon, switching turn per turn between protect and substitute, maximizing leftovers recovery, is the standard procedure, until HP isn't left to substitute again and you either recover (under most circumstances), or if running extremespeed, using that if the opponent is using life orb. This set very easily defeats (usually slower) choice users. Very few Pokémon deal over 75% damage and out-speed Deoxys-D upon the first strike. It should always be noted whether or not Deoxys-D out-speeds the opponent's Pokémon, as well as whether they are running priority moves.

    ==Other Options==
    Firstly, it should be said that Deoxys-D probably ought not to be used in Gen 5 1v1 Ubers, since it is almost completely outclassed by Lugia as a PP-staller. Extremespeed and the second set of EVs and Jolly nature are included since they can have utility in a couple of circumstances. One example is against a life orb abuser who has consistently broken your substitutes, and down at your 10-20% HP, thanks to life orb damage from breaking your substitutes, an extremespeed should both out-speed and defeat them. It does suffer against Cincinno and Cloyster, who often abuse multi-hit moves, breaking the substitutes with ease. Against these opponents, it is usually recommended to night shade/seismic toss and hope you can survive enough turns to remove all their HP.
    It may be worth considering other moves from its movepool, such as Cosmic Power (benefitting from high PP - should be used over substitute usually), Taunt, Torment, Trick, Mirror Coat, Swagger, or possibly an offensive set using its fairly ok base 70 offenses, combined with its bulk, though this is not recommended. Even Knock Off could be used, but generally Deoxys-D uses the opponent's held item against itself, such as a life orb or choice item.

    ==Checks and Counters==
    Probably the best counters viable within the standard metagame are multi-hit skill link abusers such as Cloyster and Cincinno; Cloyster hits very hard with its STAB multi-hit Icicle Spear, especially after a shell smash, also boosting its speed above that of Deoxys-D. Cincinno is similar, although being immune to night shade gives it another major advantage, although if it can't hit hard enough, it can be stalled via a combination of protect and recover. Taunt users can work very effectively too, though sometimes they can still be defeated using Night Shade. Mixed Offensive Pokémon with high speed, such as Jirachi, potentially could fare well, but are often defeated, especially if they're using a life orb. Other stalling Pokémon (e.g. Prankster users, such as Sableye, Whimsicott, and Liepard) may be able to defeat it, but generally it's a tough match-up for both sides.
     
  7. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    No offense but I don't think that is a very good set Deoxys-D has way lower HP then Defense you'll get far more bulk if you use 252 HP vs 252 Defense that set also works extremely slowly leaving a large margin for error both the two sets posted in the OP can stall out opposing Pokemon far faster.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  8. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Thanks, I didn't realise how HP EV's would be better. My PP-staller set plays very differently, and there's surprisingly little area for error. I don't see how your staller set beats Jirachi.. The objective isn't to have really quick battles with these stalling sets either; I've had battles lasting upwards of 50 turns, and won them generally.. I could find some save logs. It may work slowly, but it works quite effectively. I'll grant it is generally beaten by Taunt/Sucker Punch Bisharp, which I've seen, and I'll grant your sets using Counter would beat that.
     
  9. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    Counter 1HKO's Jirachi, if it's not Scarfed you can Trick and Torment it to make it Struggle, and Recover/Night Shade gives you a good chance at beating Jirachi barring horrible luck with the flinching.
     
  10. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Fair enough ^^
     
  11. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    {{pokeheader}}
    {{TOC}}
    ==General==
    Deoxys-D has a really good set of defensive base stats, though let down by the low base 50 HP, as well as having a solid base 90 speed. Often used as an utility pokemon, it might seem a little odd to use in a metagame which is highly offensive, however its exceptional bulk allows it to stand out as a different sort of threat. Its typing is a bit average.

    ==Sets==

    ==Trick==
    {{set
    | name = Trick
    | pkmn= Deoxys-D
    | item = Choice Scarf
    | ability = Pressure
    | nature = Bold
    | ev = 252 HP / 48 Def / 192 SDef / 16 Spd
    | move1 = Trick
    | move2 = Torment
    | move3 = Recover
    | move4 = Protect
    | move41 = Counter
    | gen = 5
    }}

    Annoying your opponent massively, you lead with a trick, giving them one item not of their choice. Then you torment them, forcing them to struggle every other turn. Then you protect to stop them hitting every other turn. Recover keeps you alive from the struggle damage, and any damage from the first hit.
    The minimal speed investment allows you to outspeed maximally invested base 100's while the rest of the EVs go towards maximizing bulk while minimizing attack (less confusion recoil/foul play); the EVs can be adjusted to outspeed other threats or shifted to favour one defense. Attack IVs can be set to 0 in order to absolutely minimise foul play damage, and shifting the bulk to defense gives this benefit as well.

    ==Standard Stall==
    {{set
    | name = Standard Staller
    | pkmn= Deoxys-D
    | item = Leftovers
    | ability = Pressure
    | nature = Timid
    | nature2= Jolly
    | ev = 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
    | ev2= 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    | move1 = Toxic
    | move2 = Recover
    | move3 = Night Shade
    | move31 = Magic Coat
    | move4 = Taunt
    | move41 = Magic Coat
    | gen = 5
    }}

    Toxic is your main method of breaking down walls with slow and steady damage, with few Pokémon immune. Night Shade is the most reliable attacking option available dealing decent damage to most things. Recover keeps your HP high while you slowly sap your opponents. Taunt prevents opponents from abusing status or healing on you while Magic Coat can hit them with their own status, including Breloom's Spore. EV's Simply maximize bulk while minimizing attack to lower confusion and Foul Play damage. These EV's are highly customisable; you can add more to one defense to beat a certain threat or more to speed to taunt something before it moves. The attack IV can be set to 0 to minimise confusion foul play damage.

    ==PP-stall==
    {{set
    | name = PP-stall
    | pkmn= Deoxys-D
    | item = Leftovers
    | ability = Pressure
    | nature = Timid
    | nature2= Jolly
    | ev = 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    | ev2= 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    | move1 = Protect
    | move2 = Substitute
    | move3 = Recover
    | move4 = Night Shade
    | move41 = Seismic Toss
    | move42 = Extremespeed
    | gen = 5
    }}

    The objective of this set is to stall the opponent of their PP, and force them to lose through struggle recoil, which, when effective, can prove of great annoyance. The way in which it should be played is slightly flexible, but in most cases substitute should be the first move used, though scouting with protect may be equally viable, depending on the opponents Pokémon, though generally one shouldn't worry when fake-out is used as a lead and substitute was chosen, since Deoxys-d is naturally very bulky and won't be hindered by this, since, firstly, it recovers some of the damage lost via leftovers, secondly, it tells you approximately how powerful the opponents Pokémon is, and that they aren't a choice item user; if it shows life orb recoil damage, then it is clear what item they possess.
    Deoxys-D has maximum speed EVs so as to maximize the opportunity to out-speed the opponents Pokémon, which it is sufficiently capable of with base 90 speed. It is worth noting Sableye with prankster is a fairly common threat, and you cannot, naturally, out-speed any priority move it may use (Examples including but in no way limited to will-o-wisp, substitute); to prepare against Sableye it is recommended to run the first EV set, as well as 0 Attack IVs, to minimize the utility of foul play, which, except on users of counter/mirror coat/metal burst, is the staple offensive move. Night shade is also necessary against Sableye, since, firstly, it is not affected by extremespeed, and secondly, the additional PP it provides is usually what is sufficient to bring Sableye to using struggle - recover is a common move on Sableye so the levels of PP are relevant.
    Against most (offensive) Pokémon, switching turn per turn between protect and substitute, maximizing leftovers recovery, is the standard procedure, until HP isn't left to substitute again and you either recover (under most circumstances), or if running extremespeed, using that if the opponent is using life orb. This set very easily defeats (usually slower) choice users. Very few Pokémon deal over 75% damage and out-speed Deoxys-D upon the first strike. It should always be noted whether or not Deoxys-D out-speeds the opponent's Pokémon, as well as whether they are running priority moves.
    In essence, the maximum HP is to maximise the bulk, the maximum speed to give the best opportunity to ensure the substitute is up as soon as possible.

    ==Other Options==
    Firstly, it should be said that Deoxys-D probably ought not to be used in Gen 5 1v1 Ubers, since it is almost completely outclassed by Lugia as a staller, and on certain Pokémon choice items are incredibly common. Extremespeed and the second set of EVs and Jolly nature are included as an alternative in the PP-staller set, since they can have utility in a couple of circumstances. One example is against a life orb abuser who has consistently broken your substitutes, and down at your 10-20% HP, thanks to life orb damage from breaking your substitutes, an extremespeed should both out-speed and defeat them. It does suffer against Cincinno and Cloyster, who abuse multi-hit moves, breaking the substitutes with ease. Against these opponents, it is usually recommended to night shade/seismic toss and hope you can survive enough turns to remove all their HP.
    It may be worth considering a couple other moves from its movepool, such as Cosmic Power (benefitting from high PP - and after a couple of uses may make you near invincible, albeit it is challenging to set up often in this metagame - it may be the best defence against Shell Smash Cloyster however), and Swagger. Even Knock Off could be used, but generally Deoxys-D uses the opponent's held item against itself, such as a life orb or choice item.

    ==Set Matchups==
    This sets absolute worst match-up is against Shell Smash Cloyster. Cincinno is probably another viable counter in the metagame.
    Taunt abusers, such as Bisharp, and some Umbreon variations, are also a bad matchup for Deoxys-D.
    Choice and life orb users are usually easily beaten, though choice band Terrakion's X-Scissor deals tremendous damage which makes it a solid counter too, unless the EVs are devoted entirely to HP and Defense, instead of speed.
    Other stalling Pokémon (e.g. Prankster users, such as Sableye, Whimsicott, and Liepard) may be able to defeat it, but generally it's a tough match-up for both sides.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2013
  12. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Can this be copy and pasted to the wiki please? Thank you, Piex
     
  13. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    This is on wiki now.