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[Final] Shaymin-S

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Ubers Analyses' started by Dr. Doom, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    [​IMG]

    On Wiki

    General

    • Great base 127 Speed and good 120 base Special Attack
    • Serene Grace gives its Seed Flare an 80% chance to lower Special Defence by 2 stages, making it very hard to wall
    • It also gives Air Slash a 60% chance to make the opponent flinch
    • Its typing allows it to check Groudon, Kyogre and Tyranitar
    • Weak to Stealth Rock
    • Very frail
    Movesets

    SubSeed
    Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 252 Spd
    Substitute
    Leech Seed
    Air Slash
    Seed Flare

    • Designed to frustrate and annoy
    • Leech Seed allows it Recover lost health, and whittle opponents down
    • Air Slash has a 60% chance to make the opponent flinch, granting further recovery by Leech Seed
    • Seed Flare's secondary effect makes it very hard for foes who don't resist Shaymin-S's STABs to wall it
    • The EVs maximise speed and special attack. It's a waste of time running anything else due to Shaymin-S's frailty
    • Leftovers and Leech Seed give Shaymin-S good recovery
    • Although the moves are resisted by a fair few Pokemon, their secondary effects make them too good to pass up
    Life Orb
    Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 252 Spd
    Seed Flare
    Air Slash
    Earth Power
    Hidden Power Fire/ Hidden Power Ice/ Growth

    • Designed to be an all out attacker and late game sweeper
    • Seed Flare and Air Slash get STAB, and brilliant secondary effects
    • Earth Power badly injures Dialga, Jirachi and Heatran
    • Hidden Power Fire hurts Ferrothorn, Forretress and Skarmory. Hidden Power Ice hurts opposing Shaymin-S, Rayquaza and Thundurus.
    • Or you could opt for Growth, which forgos coverage for the ability to hit much harder. In sun, it gives Shaymin-S a +2 boost, skrocketing its special attack to a whopping 678.
    • EVs maximise speed and power

    Choice
    Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)/ Modest (+SAtk -Atk)
    Item: Choice Scarf/ Choice Specs
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 252 Spd
    Seed Flare/ Leaf Storm
    Air Slash
    Earth Power
    Hidden Power Fire/ Hidden Power Ice

    • Utilising its unique speed tier to be either a revenge killer of wallbreaker
    • Serene Grace helps with both roles: Air Slash's Flinch rate combined with Choice Scarf allows Shaymin-S to flinch its opponents to death; Seed Flare's special defence drops make muscling through walls that much easier.
    • Seed Flare is generally the better option, although Leaf Storm is an acceptable alternative for the increase in power and accuracy
    • Air Slash is the secondary STAB
    • Earth Power hits Dialga, Jirachi and Heatran
    • Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn, Forretress and Skarmory. Hidden Power Ice hits Rayquaza, Garchomp and Thundurus.
    • EVs maximise Speed and power
    • Both natures are viable. Modest is recommended for Choice Scarf, since it still outruns 252 Spd Jolly Deoxys-S while hitting noticeably harder. Timid is recommended for Choice Specs, although Modest is an acceptable alternative for the extra power.

    Other Options

    • An offensive Cleric set with 3 attacks + Healing Wish or Aromatherapy is possible. If that's what you want, use the Life Orb set's setup
    • Hidden Power Rock can be used for Ho-Oh, although its utility pretty much stops there
    • Synthesis can be used, although the weather fluctuations in Ubers make it unreliable

    Synergy

    • Rock Arceus resists Fire and Flying moves, and in a Sandstorm is bulky enough to take unboosted Ice Beams. It can also take out Ho-Oh. Shaymin-S returns the favour by being able to remove Groudon, Kyogre and Ferrothorn (Air Slash is a clean 2HKO after Seed Flare's stat drops).
    • Tentacruel can Spin away the Stealth Rock Shaymin-S hates and in turn lay Toxic Spikes to make the SubSeed set's job easier
    • Kyogre can take out Ho-Oh and negate Shaymin-S's Fire weakness
    • Dialga is neutral to Fire and Ice moves and resists Rock. It can lay Stealth Rock to help sweeper sets too.

    Checks and Counters

    • Ho-Oh can usually take anything it has to give and OHKO with Brave Bird or Sacred Fire
    • Reshiram can toast it with Blue Flare, although must watch out for Earth Power
    • Chansey, Blissey and Ferrothorn can wall it if they escape Seed Flare's stat drops
    • ExtremeKiller Arceus can revenge kill it with Extremespeed, although will still take heavy damage from Seed Flare
    • Swords Dance Rayquaza is in the same boat, although has to be more careful switching in in case of Hidden Power Ice
    • In a Sandstorm Rock Arceus can revenge kill with Judgment or Stone Edge, but can't switch in since Seed Flare is a 2HKO.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  2. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I disagree with the 29 HP IV thing. It makes no difference for the Life Orb, as you'll still get 11 hits out of it. You only need to make sure your HP's not divisible by 10 for the Life Orb to work properly.
     
  3. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Oh OK. Will change.
     
  4. Slowkii

    Slowkii Banned

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    Mention King's Rock.

    This boosts airslashes change to 90% chance of flinch IIRC, and gives Seed Flare a 30% to flinch.

    Otherwise, great! But I don't think subseed deserves the first set, but thats up to you!
     
  5. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I'll mention it in OO, but generally Leftovers, Life Orb or Choice items are better. The sets weren't in any particular order.
     
  6. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    Kings Rock isn't worth it. It certainly doesn't boost the flinch rate to 90%... just imagine.. it's a 10% boost and it's not applied additionally it's a 60% chance to flinch then a 10% chance in succession boosting the flinch rate from 60% to 64%.

    Math
    60% to flinch 40% chance to not flinch if you don't flinch 10% chance to flinch 10% of 40 = 4 60 + 4 = 64%.[/HIDE]
     
  7. Slowkii

    Slowkii Banned

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    Really? I was told by someone (Not naming) that those were the boosts. Ah well, who cares?
     
  8. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    No harm done, I've taken it off now anyways. Everything OK?
     
  9. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    I'd slash Protect with Seed Flare on the SubSeed set. It helps scout and gain health from Leech Seed. Don't slash it with Air Slash because it is too good to give up on that set (free flinch and only way to take out Grass types). Also, there are some defensive EV spreads that you could use so that Sub doesn't break (there was one for Kyogre's Water Spout, but I don't remember it off the top of my head) since Special Attack isn't as much of a priority.

    Also, mention Special Defensive Skarmory, Dialga, Choice Scarfers in the Counters section because besides HP Fire and Scarf/set up sub respectively, there is nothing Skymin can do against them.

    Otherwise I like it.
     
  10. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Shaymin-S doesn't have the bulk to stall. Although Air Slash and Seed Flash get bad coverage, their secondary effects are just too good to give up. I'll mention SDef Skarmory, but Dialga's only a check: after Seed Flare's stat drops Earth Power's a OHKO.
     
  11. Mr. N00b

    Mr. N00b Member

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    With Shaymin-S's unique speed tier, it can run Modest on the Choice Scarf with little worry of opponents outspeeding. Just a heads up.
     
  12. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Did you not read the Choice set's Set Comments?

     
  13. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    Leaf Storm is really not the best on the Choice set, Groudon/Kyogre get OHKO'd anyway and using Leaf Storm leaves you vulnerable to Extremekiller Arceus the next turn (or any Arceus that sets up for that matter). Seed Flare is always better.
     
  14. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I agree - that's why it's the secondary slash

    252SpAtk Shaymin (+SAtk) Seed Flare vs 4HP/0SpDef Kyogre (Neutral): 89% - 105% (306 - 360 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 33% chance to OHKO.
    252SpAtk Shaymin (+SAtk) Seed Flare vs 252HP/0SpDef Kyogre (Neutral): 75% - 89% (306 - 360 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Kyogre that invest in bulk are never OHKOd.
     
  15. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    I just want to admit that my previous calculation was incorrect, I did not take the fact that Serene Grace doubles Kings Rock's flinch chance into consideration, using it would actually boost Air Slashes flinch chance from 60% to 68% still not worth it imo but I wanted to correct myself.
     
  16. MewtwoHidden

    MewtwoHidden My Hax Makes Me Famous

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    I'd say to slash Sub by Growth and the Hidden Powers on the LO set since Skymin will be forcing lots of switches and once it gets behind a sub it is almost impossible to kill

    Really good analyses good job mate! ^^

    I changed the moves sets oh so slightly. Sub > HP Ice on the LO set and removed the Leaf Storm slash on the Choice set.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013