Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by Fegelein, Apr 23, 2013.
Deadline is in just under 72 hours for your information.
So now that the deadline is finally in sight I’d like to bring Beast back in as a good lynch option.
Well, since you’ve played NOC before, I would think you would try to contribute to the discussion. Let’s focus on the plentiful time Beast has had to “redeem himself.” That post was made 11 days ago.
Answers a question directed at someone else, suggests himself for another scummy read when wae has quite a bit of scummy reads actually.
Please explain why Hopkirk is a better option, you had ample time to do this, also I believed I asked you this at some point and you never responded. The question was in a wall of text mostly about Marcello, though, so I apologize for that.
#391 – mostly fluff
#425 – asking for a votecount
#446 – “Me and wae for scum team 2013”; also asking again for a votecount
#487 – “We need a lynch every day” – stating the obvious
#491 – something about Glee
The immediate next post basically sums up my feelings to this.
But really, you could’ve made a substantial post by the dating of this post (May 9th)
Like what you’re doing right now?
Trying to get across some philosophical point about the ambiguity of scum or something – personally I think this is a slight scum tell, because you’re trying to say “don’t try to understand scum, it won’t work,” although this post is basically inconsequential.
Anyways, you should really take a look at TIWSS’s 502 and the end of my 524, Beast – questions that you still need to answer.
Also @Fegelein you still didn’t count my vote of Beast; I’ll do it here again I guess. Vote BeastCharizard
Here has been my logic thus far this game. Act like scum so the scum doesn't kill me. It seems to be working effectively since i have everyone convinced I am scum.
I don't remember any of the questions that have been asked of me or else I would actually answer them. I will reread the thread and answer stuff since I don't actually want to be lynched.
In the process, you get yourself lynched.
God, don't tell me you are "intentionally scummy?" >_>
I just said I was intentionally scummy. I thought i would mix things up for a change.
How is acting "intentionally scummy" possibly in the interest of the town?
Why decide to reveal it was intentional now?
Are you really this dense?
i think windblown has given us a good analysis lynch beastcharizard
By this point Beast really is stringing himself up as our major lynch option. I can see a Not L lynch won't come to fruition against this, so Unvote Vote BeastCharizard
Although I want to stress that we really really should pressure Not L more. Seriously.
oh bullshit you think you're me, do you beast? do you? vote thesexione
I feel completely comfortable with this lynch also.
We are less then 72 from the deadline.
Let's get him.
My bad, I noticed that IronStorm had a vote in but it didn't register >.>
Alright, so let me try to convince you all not to lynch me real fast. I am only going to do stuff after the game started since anything before that is free trolling ground.
I was just going to defend myself but I will just post my opinions on a lot of posts I guess. Also, it is super long.
This is HDs first post in the thread. He is using pregame logic to say that I am scum. I didn't know pregame actually came into effect for a game like this.
Bandwagonning on me. While they did wait until the game actually started that juts makes it that much more suspicious. Their reasoning is off too.
This is what my whole wagon is basically about. Me asking a question at the beginning of the game. Once again, i didn't know the pre game mattered. ALso, it really is just so I can keep my NOC win streak.
He thinks that me getting voted out helps my team and yet he still votes me? Does that make any sense at all. Maybe he is ok with voting me out because he knows that I am not part of his scum team.
My first attempt to actually take the game seriously and to defend myself. It seems this is being over looked. Yes I did get like 2 replies to this post.
Kind of KX defending me while saying I don't make sense. The hate vote thing was before the game where in my opinion nothing actually matters. I honestly think that nothing before the game started should have a factor in the game, but it seems it does.
This post still makes no sense to me.
My Bestworst post this whole game. I was just so frustrated at HD at this point.
Another fantastic post by myself. I do actually contribute sometimes. Also my self read was half a joke and pointing out that i understand why I am being voted.
At the very lease I am consistent. I still don't see how Wind is scum though.
Scummy people and other random things.
Just wanted to add that people of the village say village too.
Bandwagon happy person here.
Asking a lot of questions yet not giving up any info of their own. FOS.
Asking more questions while contributing nothing.
Just a good point of meows. This is post 228.
Admitting to having scum tells. And to trolling. If I am to get voted off at least vote them off after me.
More question while not saying anything. Who would have thought.
Another questions and pretending to contribute.
I answered for Wae after this and Wae had just defended me. This looks like I am buddying with Wae kind of.
Please keep this post in mind for later.
Who wants it to be night time the most? Scum do.
Admitting he isn't even trying to help the village in anyway.
More Questions without actually doing any work themselves.
An attempt to actually do something which is actually appreciated. At this point I don't think they are actually voting me but they are asking people if they would be on board with a lynch they themselves are not on. Seems a little like fishing to me.
More questions and implying they hope I am lynched.
That super long link is of Sebastian. He "contributes" to the village and then says he feels weird. He also drops some suspicion on Meow.
You could try contributing some maybe?
More questions and they were so nice as to even bold the people's names for us. They are still on about Windblown so they are consistent. This means there is not a Windblown-Dopog team.
Vote: Sebastion Hummel
He and Dopog are the two people whom I view as scum at this point. I know it might be a little late but oh well. I will help in anyway i can now. I think I have answered all questions previously asked of me.
Lol, I have no idea why this is happening. I honestly don't believe Beast is scum, despite his behavior (oh no you voted me, I must counter it yes). (oh and also hypocrisy considering that you gave the same "scumtells" as I did, and more often, albeit a bit less blatantly)
I'd like to take a look at two players in particular: Not L and profDEADPOOL. The past 5 or so pages, he's repeatedly stated that "Sebastian is scum" and "Sebastian's posts are scummy" and other shit that everyone already knows (thanks, I do try) and now that it looks like Beast is going to get lynched, he's going to just have a sudden paradigm shift and follow that? No. As for Not L, I've stated before why he is so scummy due to his incredibly forced-sounding and unintelligible "logic"- and unlike Beast and me, I don't think he's being scummy on purpose.
first I'll unvote just in case
then I'll vote profDEADPOOL
I don't think a Beast lynch is our best option today. This vote stinks of opportunism.
Sebastian, I agreed that we pretty much have the exact same tells which is why i said that if I get lynched for this then you should be lynched later. I also just gave my opinion which people have wanted the whole game. Dopog is also scum in my book because of how much he posts and how little he contributes. He relies on other people way to much.
I am interested in seeing how people respond to my post.
deadpool is totes bussing/opportunistic scum btw
hi guys, I have been quite busy and stuff
Not a fan of your selective quoting beast.
Like you ridiculously misrepresent what HD, KX and myself say, and ignore what my posts say aside from questions...
I'd like to think that scum wouldn't do that so blatantly, but I don't know. Again I still think you are taking this "scum wouldn't be that silly" mentality and trying to abuse it as much as possible.
I really wasn't impressed with Profdeadpool's last couple posts, particularly the way he seems to come to his reads; Doesn't really consider what people are saying, rather just whacks labels on them. This is a bit stream of consciousness but I'm also thinking his tone sounds quite town. Will needa reread and hear him post more; @deadpool; Can you explain your vote on Beast? And have you finished exams?
@Windblown; Why did you choose to do a read of marcello? What do you think of profdeadpool, viamage, hd and tiwss (again soz lol)? Sorry if the questioning is super intense but really want to get an accurate read on you. Still saying scum though
@tiwss you promised big things!!! deliver please = ) OH same with @IFM = (
@wae can you update your reads a bit? tso has been lurking and is really unwilling to either explain it or do otherwise (although he did say he had work that one time, but that was one time). His reads have been lols as well. so yeah agree with the vote
Metal sonic is scum. js
viamage I am now more leaning scum on, he seems the most oppurtunistic voter. He hasn't voiced any suspicion of beast before and has built the bandwagon on him up a couple times. Although he has stated that his playstyle is reactionary so it is aligned. I also feel like his posts would be less coherent if he wasn't scum, although that's not much to go from = S @viamage Do you have any other thoughts? Why did you think windblown's analysis was good?
I'm a bit meh at the moment; sorry chaps. As such I haven't been paying attention to last couple pages. I have a couple of assessments next days before deadline. I will have a look at beast and archerknight and I dunno couple other people after they are done
How many of your posts did I miss? 2 or 3 at most. The ones for HD were solely to defend myself so i chose the posts that were mostly about me so skipping the posts not about me would make sense.
Once again you are contributing little but saying a lot. Your posts are full of fluff and almost nothing but fluff. You solely reiterate what other people have already said which is very convenient.
Well his thoughts were well thought out, he made sure to include everything in his takedown of beast. as a whole i don't know how to even start a sum hunt so I'm pretty much just going to be on the ea or nay side of things as a pure reaction everythings. although don't get me wrong, i will be doing no more impulse reactions like i did in the beginning
I had been mostly against the Beast lynch due to its uncanny beginning, but more and more I'm beginning to lean toward thinking this is a good idea. The "intentionally scummy" excuse in particular strikes me as strange. It's a very very weak excuse, and I don't think it's something Beast (or anyone for that matter) would do. Also, with the deadline fast approaching, we need to get a lynch and most people seem to agree that this is a good target. That being said:
To all of those who are sure to ask, "What about not voting unless you are 100% certain?" Well, it's similar to my vote on wae in that I am attempting to get something done here. I wanted wae to start talking normally, so I voted him. Now I am voting Beast to produce a lynch on someone whom
A) I think stands a fair chance of being scum
B) Might end up being the only possibility for a lynch target this day (seeing as we are all so split on other targets)
waehofen knows what's up
also Not L just flip flopped super hard wow
The lynch options for today are me and Windblown if I am not mistaking. I feel Sebastian is also a good lynch option for that since he has actually contributed less than I have at this point and he is not even really trying to redeem himself.
Also, saying someone wouldn't be intentially scum is not true. Read some other games and you will see it is actually a common thing that people do. I am not a person who will normally do this though. I just wanted to switch it up. It seems to have back fired and I understand now that it was really stupid of me. I have accepted my inevitable demise so I am trying my best to point out who the scum actually are so my crusade will not be a complete waste. I have already said I am village so obviously they are the ones i want to help. You are all going to be super mad when I flip village I just know you are.
I deplore you all to think of why I would act like scum if I were actually scum. When i am scum i try my best to blend into the village and if I do say so myself I generally do a pretty good job of it. In the only NOC game I have finished I was scum and was believed to be a village sided role. Why would anyone who was scum make themselves look scummy? I would understand if this was OC and there were some crazy roles like you win if lynched or something like that but this is NOC meaning crazy roles like that are probably not going to be in this game. If I can save myself from being voted that would be fantastic and I promise to be an asset to the my team, the village, so that we can win the game and continue my no lose NOC game streak. NOC is the only game I have ever won and I want to atleast keep my streak of winning these types of games alive.
Also: when did you decide to start acting "intentionally scummy"? Has it been for the entire game or otherwise?
Will post more on Beast after he answers my questions
How is deadpool "totes" bussing but via isn't? How do you interpret Not L's vote?
Also about to c/p a giant post I've been working on. Keep in mind this post was written before 579 so my Not L read is a little outdated.
Here’s a couple reads:
As I said before, I really didn’t like his attack on dopog. It seemed to be based on the idea that aggressive play day 1 is something only in the interest of the mafia, which is of course not at all the case. Re-reading, I kinda see his point about dopog’s selective questioning or w/e.
[SECRET]To derail somewhat: I’m not saying I think asking players about specific other players is inherently scummy. I know I’ve done so myself, and it lets town players prevent scum from giving their opinion on players of their choosing, which in turn gives us more info on player-player interactions. The problem occurs if scum are the only ones asking these selective questions; this allows them to dictate the flow of the game. [/SECRET]
Back to Not L: while I don’t agree with his reasoning for being suspicious of dopog, I do think that the fact that he was willing to call out a player whom much of the thread was reading as pro-town at that point was a pretty bold move. It was the kind of play that would be pretty dumb for a scum player to make, and it read as pretty genuine so I’m buying the callout as town. But at some point this whole thing becomes WIFOM so it’s not too strong of a town tell after all.
[SECRET]To derail again: I do think it was interesting that Marcello was so adamantly against Not L calling dopog scummy, when it seems every game he says something along the lines of “We need to consider the possibility that TIWSS is scum!”. I mean I know the way Not L went about it was completely different than the way Marc usually does (ie saying dopog was scummy rather than saying we need to take dopog’s town-ness for granted), but I dislike the fact that Marc was so against someone saying that a pro-town force could be scum when its something he says p much every game. Came across to me as buddying. [/SECRET]
I also like Not L basically calling Marc. out for buddying to some extent in http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?19669-The-Streets-of-Hill-Valley-(NOC)-NIGHT-0-(CONFIRM-IN-THREAD)&p=275711#post275711”]436.[/URL]
That being said, 422 was a pretty blatant misrepresentation of the truth (deadpool took control of the thread?), as well as anti-town in sentiment (again, the “aggressive town play = scum” argument).
I also really dislike 410. Basically Not L says citro hasn’t put forward a single original thought, and then tries to prove it by selecting the posts of citro that don’t have much content. The conclusion certainly does not follow. Not L completely ignores some of citro’s more substantial posts (275, 340). The argument ends up looking something like: “Some of your posts lack original thought, thus all of your posts lack original thought”.
All in all, I guess I’m reading Not L as pretty null. Some things make me think town (calling out the most aggressive town force this game, as well as marc) while others make me think scum or bad town. I’d be willing to chalk his mistakes so far up to bad play as they aren’t overtly scummy in the sense I think Beast is, but we definitely need to keep prodding him.
citro: I don’t have much to say here but for the most part I’m leaning town. He seems willing to cooperate, responds to questions and was quick to debunk Not L’s argument against him (ya, I like 411 but maybe I just like long posts), and generally move the thread along in the right direction. Sure he doesn’t say a whole ton but I think if that’s your argument against him we need to be looking at other less active players. Haven’t seen anything inherently scummy from him.
HD: Pretty town. Generated a lot of discussion early on, then died and now is (hopefully) active again. I know he’s a good player so I wouldn’t put it past him to be scum but at this point I’m reading town. He seems to make a lot of unreasoned claims but I think that’s for reaction testing and is mostly just a playstyle thing. I’m also somewhat suspicious of the inactive period but as long as that doesn’t become regular we’re good. And I’d like to hear some more from him in terms of reads.
Ya, I’m not really reading anyone as scum at this point (besides Beast). I’m pretty sure there’s plenty of scum lurking in the inactives (MS, Archer, IFM, I know you guys can contribute!) I’d also like to pressure other newbies into discussing, but that’s prolly best left for day 2 at this point.
I will say I have a slight scum read on TSO at this point. Active lurking and very nominal contributions remind me of his SS play. @TSO is this just a playstyle thing or wat?
Sorry for the tldr =)
BLARG BROKEN LINK
make me quadruple post bs.
As I said, acting scummy would allow me to not be targetted by the actual scum thus giving the village a guaranteed player for a while.
That was the plan at least. That plan clearly did not work out and if lynched I only have myself to blame and you all have me to blame for my horrible play. I started acting scummy about the time i realized people were going to use pre-game stuff to get my lynched. I started kind of attempting to be helpful but then HDs post just pushed me over the edge and then I dived right in to be scum. I still tried to contribute but as little as possible. My latest post was my attempt to at least help before i die. I don't want to die in vain.
Seriously who decides to act intentionally scummy after being put under suspicion. The difference between you and Seb is that people weren't calling Seb out as scum before he decided to troll. You decided to troll after people voiced their suspicions concerning you.
I really don't understand how you can resolve the following opinions: "Seb played a similar d0 to me", "I'm not scum", and "Seb is our best lynch target".
This whole play is completely idiotic to me. To make matters worse, you say wanted to "not be targetted by the actual scum", but seeing as you were already one of our top lynch targets I don't see how this was a factor.
I feel like you saw how everyone reacted positively to wae's big reveal and wanted a cathartic reveal of your own. However your situation is so utterly different than his that I find yours to be completely contrived.
Not gonna lie the opportunistic voting, sheeping and poorly reasoned votes are turning me off a little bit. Not L especially strikes me as odd. If you really think we have better targets than Beast please name them; 72 hours is more than enough time.
That being said I still feel Beast is our best target.
I completely except my fate of being lynched. That is why i said that if I am lynched then Sebastian should be as well eventually. I have never once said I made a good decision. One could argue this is my biggest mistake in a mafia game. Also, Sebastian has yet to try and reconcile all the trolling he has done while I am at least attempting to help.
It seems the other lynch option is Windblown at this point. I obviously reread the whole thread and I didn't pick up on anything from Wind really. I will go reread the person who posted the read on them though just incase i missed something.
I would like to point out that I would also be ok with a Dopog lynch as well. I just voted Sebastion because I feel he is a bigger threat as of right now than Dopog is. At least with Dopog's question people are still talking and all that jazz but with Sebastian's posts nothing is being accomplished.
Strong quadruple post TIWSS lol
Personally the whole “if I play like scum, then scum won’t target me!” idea is a bit selfish rather than village-oriented because you’re playing to preserve yourself while alienating the whole village.
Also I might as well give you my post from long back:
Or if you switched opinion now (judging by your latest posts), why?
Anyways, the game’s response to my last post was pretty interesting – people seem to be developing a concentrated vote on someone, which is good.
I’m not sure how to feel about viamage’s “oh, I don’t know what to do” mentality. His explanation post of his vote post is basically saying “I’m basically going to go with the flow guys!” which is pretty scummy, although he is inexperienced in NOC.
As people have suggested before trying reading another NOC game (even just skimming) to see how people come to their conclusions.
Deadpool has always struck me as a bit off. His vote post is just quoting something Beast said, going “….” and then voting him, as if he thinks we already know his reasoning. Might look into his posts more later.
Bear in mind that Marcello read was something I wanted to do a few pages before I actually got to do it. At that time I felt he was flying underneath the radar so I wanted to analyze his posts in case there was something I wasn’t seeing. I came to the conclusion that he was still acting pretty town, but I wasn’t sure how the whole reading thing worked, but I still posted it anyways because I thought it’d be helpful. It did lead to me finding out how Marcello utilizes his knowledge of a player’s meta, though.
Deadpool’s contributions seem pretty minimalistic , especially that last post like I mentioned. He seems to be avoiding TIWSS’ question of why he is in support of lynching me for info (at that point) and I’d like to know why also, especially when he says he’s “Not really convinced he is scum though.” (494)
Viamage: talked about him above
HD: He’s playing aggressively, which I’m a bit wary of, but he’s been doing it the whole thread so there’s consistency for him. I think he gets a little too inquisitional in 540 where he asks KX a bunch of questions, although I’ll let KX respond to that. Seeing town.
While I’m talking about HD, @HD: What’s your take on information lynches?
TIWSS: He is also against lynching primarily for information, which we share the same view on. 414 is pro-town to me because he’s trying to get people to respond to questioning instead of passing over it. Of interest is MeowMix’s post in 427 where he kinda calls TIWSS out on defending the players perceived as heavily leaning town and then TIWSS in his latest posts starts seeing me as town, so this discourages this sort of “buddying” (although I don’t know how much you’d value that coming that from me). I don’t think much of my view has changed on him from my last read, which is moderately town.
Not L’s vote is suspicious too – he says “Well, it's similar to my vote on wae in that I am attempting to get something done here. I wanted wae to start talking normally, so I voted him. to produce a lynch on someone whom
A) I think stands a fair chance of being scum
B) Might end up being the only possibility for a lynch target this day (seeing as we are all so split on other targets)
And the two players had warranted different reasons for them being voted. He voted wae, like a lot of us, because we wanted him to drop his confusing posting; now he’s voting Beast because he “stands a fair chance of being scum.” Part A seems okay because we are fairly close to the deadline but B is suspicious to me because he’s saying “I didn’t get to lynch my guy, so I’ll just follow everyone else.”
And now for some of my own questions to you dopog:
What is your opinion on HD, KX, and TSO? And regarding TSO, apparently his scum play in previous games is largely like his play now – does this affect your read of him at all?
How do you get a townish feel from deadpool while saying he tends to “whack labels” on people instead of actually explaining them?
Can you elaborate more on your scum sentence on Metal Sonic?
How exactly am I posting lots of things that are helpful but don’t actually say anything?
Who are your strongest town reads?
Lastly you should really try to contribute, TSO – going all “ohoho you totally found me out” @ MeowMix does not help your case at all
f long posts
Because I haven't said I thought Beast was scummy the entire game?
Oh wait no yes I have said that also.
And since deadline and more people on Beast I am more then happy to lynch him.
But literally everytime I have posted who I think is scum I have included Beast.
It is not a "shift" for me to be voting him near the deadline when I agree he is scum.
Deadpool is quite literally jumping on every wagon that he possibly can.
This gives me a really good town vibe
Not L really doesn't strike me as that bad. Flip-flops are a normal occurrence in mafia, and don't particularly strike me as scummy.
It's not a shift.
But considering most of your play this game is jumping on wagons...you're probably scum.
@beast's #572.................I thought you were supposed to have already dropped the 'I'm scum!' attitude?
Just wanted to say that im in favour of lynching beast
S'till busy atm
After reading all of what has been said.
Unvote (whoever i voted before if anyone)
Thoughts on the game? Don't be shy, tell us all of your opinions.
It's an activity thing and an engagement thing: I just can't find the interest in this game. It's 100% like my scum meta, I'll freely admit, and I'm lurking like fuck, so lynching me is perfectly understandable. In a week or two, I'll have everything over me.
If I have scum tells now they are not on purpose in anyway. How my post 572 was scummy, I don't know. It would be great if you could elaborate on that for me.
Princess Luna, bandwagon a little softer please. Your bandwagoning is painful to watch.
People feel free to ask me any questions and I will gladly answer them now.
Currently with the level of inactivity I think the people-voting beast aren’t just “opportunity bandwagoning” but rather are just worried about the time-limit of 3 days (and that they think beast is a good lynch option), also if “x who votes someone else who has already been voted for with good reason” means that x is bad then that will put even more people off voting than currently which will prevent a lynch since we barely have enough active people to vote anyone out.
Intentional scumminess isn’t a good thing, from what you said about “why would scum do it”, that’s the definition of Wifom.
His “I really think Hopkirk is a better lynch option” is pretty suspicious since he never responded to winds question about why or gave any examples, even in his last big post he gives no reasoning for this.
When he keeps quoting dopog he says that he only asks questions, what he doesn’t do is actually quote any posts where dopog makes reads, I don’t really like this since he’s trying to selectively quote to make someone appear scum.
At the moment I’m suspecting a SH and BC scum team since they are the two people I suspect the most (as seen from all my votes), the way they vote at the moment doesn’t seem to support this (BC voting SH and SH voting PD (not beast)) but they could just think that there won’t by a lynch in time by trying to spread the voting as widely as possible but still cover one of them just in case.
@Luna: there is reason to vote beast but what’s yours?
Vote beast charizard
^this, what you're doing is pretty much exactly what i did at the very beginning, even I have to say that was stupid. I think it's safe to say that you're a good lynch target after e get rid of beast.
@beast: why would appearing scummy so scum wouldn't hunt you down be a beneficial play when there is no way for you to inform town people that you aren't scum in order to secure your safety? seems kindof dumb even for me
Separate names with a comma.