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[BW2] May and June Wifi NU Tier / Potential Suspect Discussion

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU' started by Big Bad Booty Daddy, Apr 30, 2013.

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  1. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    Posting these a bit early, to make up for how last time I wasn't able to post them on time!
    Wifi NEU as well!

    Wifi LU -> Wifi NU
    - Drapion
    - Gardevoir
    - Gorebyss
    - Houndoom
    - Huntail
    - Manectric
    - Primeape
    - Swellow

    Wifi NU -> Wifi LU
    - Poliwrath

    Wifi NU -> Wifi NEU
    - Munchlax
    - Rotom-F
    - Torterra

    Wifi NEU -> Wifi NU
    - Cacturne
    - Electivire
    - Garbodor
    - Glaceon
    - Kangaskhan
    - Simipour

    These changes aren't implemented into their tiers right now, they will be in the next 48 hours approximately, or when the server restarts.

    These changes to the Wifi NU Tier are arguably the most impacting in the history of this tier. Please discuss the impact they have on the tier and any Pokemon you believe should be suspected or any Pokemon that should be banned.
     
  2. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Houndoom is in NU?

    I'm disappointed in LU for not using it, but their loss is my gain.
     
  3. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    Houndoom is going to wreck NU ._.
     
  4. Cobalt

    Cobalt Embrace the Cold

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    cased have fun with houndoom ^_^ ahahaha I WANT MISMAG IN LU DAMN IT! wait is someone else posting UU > LU?
     
  5. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Drapion will be interesting. Toxic Spikes spread all over a tier that's lacking a good spinner. Plus, NU has a top-of-the-line spinblocker (in Missy.) Oh and another answer to the Psychic types running around (Musharna and Mesprit, specifically. Oh and Gardevoir, now.)

    Speaking of Gardevoir, what a beast. I've used it in Smogon NU and it's had great results. I expect the same in PO NU. Large support and attacking movepool, offensive and (specially) defensive capabilities, etc. I wonder if Mushy will see less usage ;_;

    Gorebyss and Huntail are /ok/ because Smash Pass is banned.

    Houndoom will be another pokemon to threaten the Psychic types. Also, it's offensive abilities will alone get it pretty far in NU. Mixed, Special, Physical, Sweeping, Trapping, etc.

    Manetric might as well be called Rotom2.0. It'll be better (thanks to Overheat and more speed.) Plus, no weakness to rock. Only downside is less bulk and cannot run supporting sets, still a better choiced user.

    Primeape is a faster, but less powerful sawk. Should see a lot of usage with it's scarved set - while Sawk'll be more of a banded wall-breaker (I love EB Sawk, though!)

    Swellow is another pokemon that's comprable to an already NU pokemon. It's comprable to Zangoose (and Ursaring, kind of.) The only thing that really distincts it is that Swellow is already amazingly quick, powerful, and has a dual stab (which may hurt with rocks - oh and u-turn!)

    Oh and Poliwrath never really got the respect it deserved in NU - glad it did in LU, though.

    Here are some possible sets for the new pokemon:
    Drapion (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Battle Armor
    EVs: 248 HP / 240 SDef / 20 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Roar
    - Crunch
    It can run Physically defensive or Specially defensive. I just used SDef because it was better in LU (imo.)

    Gardevoir (F) @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball / Substitute
    As opposed to a normal bulky CM set (Musharna does this better, imo) this is an offensive one. With competitive speed and strong special attack, I believe it'll do well.

    Swellow (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn
    - Quick Attack / Protect
    Pretty self-explanatory. Pretty standard. Pretty damn good.

    Houndoom (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Pursuit
    - Sucker Punch
    - Fire Blast
    - Crunch / Hidden Power [Grass]
    Basically, a less bulky and more powerful skuntank (with a much better mixed attacking potential.) A nasty plot set is viable, too.

    Maybe I'll do more if I'm bored.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  6. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    The LU Tier Leaders will be posting the changes for Pokemon dropping from UU and the Pokemon rising from LU.

    Alright everyone should elaborate on their posts from now on, saying one poke will wreck without reasoning doesn't make anybody believe you. Talk about Pokemon that could rise or drop, sets people could use, things like that! It makes for a very interesting thread and sprouts new ideas.
     
  7. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Ah Primape, a fighting type with u-turn is going to make hyper offense alot easier.

    Swellow with its incredible speed will be able to outspeed all unboosted mon bar electrode, so should be sweet for late game.

    Huntail and Gorebyss are meh without baton pass, Gorebyss can be relatively threatening after a smash though.

    Drapion is gonna be a huge asset to stall teams with it's great typing and access to toxic spikes, and is gonna be a far better defensive answer to the tiers psychic and ghost types than Skuntank.

    Gardevoir is a bit underwhelming with its middling speed, but has a very nice special attack, and the tools to beat Skuntank too.

    Manectric meh, it has a nice speed but has always been underwhelming to me, but actually looking at its stats it could very well become the most popular electric in the tier, with base 105 speed, and access to overheat and switcheroo, it seems to have everything over the rotom formes and electabuzz.

    Houndoom will not be broken in NU imo, there are many Fighting types that beat it, it cant break through common walls such as Lickylicky and Alomomola and its incredibly frail. It will still be good, but it is incredibly more useful in LU and will probably be returning there next tier change if people have sense.
     
  8. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I'm really looking forward to playing NU once these changes are implemented.

    Drapion - good answer to Psychic and Ghost types, should do well. I don't think it'll be broken at the moment, because while it's a great Toxic Spike stacker, just switch in your own grounded poison type and they're gone.
    Gardevoir - This will be interesting. I don't think it'll wreck the tier, but I'm pretty sure it'll be a top 20 Pokemon. Might even dethrone Mesprit, since while it can't lay Stealth Rock, it has a tonne of moves Mesprit could only dream of (Will-O-Wisp, Memento, Wish, Focus Blast)
    Swellow - will be threatening but I don't think broken since it can't scratch Rock and Steel types
    Gorebyss - Might be interesting, since here it has no real competition as a Shell Smash special sweeper
    Huntail - Won't see much usage, since its only real niche is a mixed Shell Smash set. I tried it in LU and it was crap.
    Primeape - What Finch said about being a faster weaker Sawk.
    Manectric - This will probably dethrone Rotom-S as the Scarf Electric type due to its superior speed and lack of Stealth Rock weakness. And Overheat/Flamethrower are more useful coverage moves than Air Slash.
    Houndoom - This I see wrecking the tier. The mixed set checkmates Misdreavus, while the Nasty Plot set could sweep teams with ease once the Scarfers are down.

    It's a shame to lose Poliwrath, but it deserved to rise.
     
  9. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    I assume you mean NU.

    The problem is, not only does Houndoom have priority (Sucker Punch) and the beloved Dark typing (in a tier full of Psychics) but, it has mixed attacking capabilities.
    Pokemon like Alo won't be taking a (especially boosted) HP Grass. While pokemon like Sawk cannot switch-in (same with Prime.)

    It's nasty plot set is really better than any other NP set NU currently has, imo.
    Lets look at some calcs:
    252 SAtk Neutral Nature +2 Life Orb Early Bird Houndoom's Hidden Power Grass (70 BP) Against
    252 HP / 252 SDef Positive Nature Regenerator Alomomola.
    Probable Damage: 403 - 476 (75.47% - 89.14% of 534 HP).
    100% chance to 2HKO.
    252 SAtk Neutral Nature +2 Life Orb Early Bird Houndoom's Fire Blast (120 BP) Against
    252 HP / 252 SDef Positive Nature Own Tempo Lickilicky.
    Probable Damage: 337 - 398 (79.48% - 93.87% of 424 HP).
    100% chance to 2HKO.
    Although the Physically based mix set with Pursuit / Sucker / Blast / Crunch (or HP Grass) might be more common, it's still a huge threat.
     
  10. Machineae

    Machineae ex NU leader

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    These are the best changes ever.

    Perfect time to come back and play.
     
  11. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Ok i underestimated the power looking at the lickylicky calc, but with its extreme physical frailty, being weak to common priority moves like aqua jet and mach punch and weak ness to stealth rock i cant imagine it ever being broken. Good yes, but not broken (which was my point in my first post).

    and yeee i meant NU.
     
  12. Parpar

    Parpar Member

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    New NU tier update going to be fun? y/y? yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

    also poliwrath leaving? lolk
     
  13. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Just built an NU team with Gardevoir, Manectric and Gorebyss. Will report back when changes are initiated.
     
  14. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    :] yey.

    Time for my opinion on the changes!

    Drapion
    I love it. Drapion is a great counter to a lot of Psychic-type Pokemon and in a lot of tiers, I enjoy running Rocks + T-Spikes because of the amount of Pokemon who use Substitute in the Wifi NU Tier. Access to Swords Dance and a pretty decent base Speed, Drapion can also be a threat if running Swords Dance, running Taunt is very viable to shut down Alomomola or Tangela, two main walls. Sets I plan on using would include

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Battle Armor
    EV's: 248 HP / 240 SpDef / 16 Spe
    Nature: Careful (+SpDef, -SpA)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Crunch
    - Whirlwind
    - Taunt

    Access to great typing and an incredible support movepool, Drapion will be able to set up Toxic Spikes and be able to phaze out a lot of Pokemon successfully. Psychic-type Pokemon won't be able to treat this like Skuntank and wreck it with a strong Focus Blast or Hidden Power Ground. Taunt shuts down Pokemon who try to hurt Drapion with status and Crunch is a strong STAB move, can be interchangeable with Poison Jab.

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sniper
    EV's: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Swords Dance
    - Taunt
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake/Poison Jab

    Drapion is able to set up on a lot of Pokemon with his access to Taunt, namely Alomomola, Tangela, and many other defensive Pokemon. Life > Lum because of Taunt, since I stop most status moves from being used. Crunch is a great STAB move and the choice between Earthquake and Poison Jab can be tough, since Poison Jab offers more STAB but gives you trouble with Steel-types such as Klinklang, Bastiodon, and Probopass. Earthquake helps with Steel-types, which is the real reason I use Earthquake > Poison Jab.[/HIDE]

    Gardevoir
    I love it even more. Gardevoir is an incredible Psychic-type Pokemon with incredible support moves and even better offense power. Access to Will-O-Wisp, Destiny Bond, Calm Mind, and Wish; ohmylawdy. I personally prefer the offensive moveset for Gardevoir, but the defensive one is very good given the right synergy! Gardevoir is able to run offensive sets with Choice Specs and Life Orb, making any Pokemon that doesn't resist an attack, biting the dust!

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb/Choice Specs
    Trait: Synchronize
    Ev's: 252 SpA / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Destiny Bond/Trick/Calm Mind

    Gardevoir is strong as a muuuuuuuuuuhfucka. With Life Orb or Choice Specs, Gardevoir is able to dent any Pokemon, Focus Blast is able to do a lot of damage to Skuntank, after two switch-ins to Stealth Rocks, it's a good chance that it's an OHKO. Psychic + Focus Blast + Shadow Ball is for general coverage. Focus Blast > Hidden Power Ground because it hits Klinklang better, and Focus Blast is a definite kill while HP Ground isn't to some bulkier Klinklang sets. Destiny Bond or Calm Mind can be chosen, Destiny Bond is great if you're playing mindgames with Dark-type Pokemon who try to revenge you, while Calm Mind can be used vs. Defensive Pokemon who Protect for Leftovers recovery. While Trick is obviously used on Choiced sets.

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EV's: 200 HP / 56 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute

    This set is rather unconventional, but I've used it in Smogon NU to great success! Gardevoir is able to set up Subs on many Special Attacking Psychic-type Pokemon and then setting up Calm Minds, making Gardevoir laugh at any Special move. I dont run Shadow Ball purely because Psychic-type Pokemon usually wont be able to break my sub, although I don't like losing CM wars to Musharna so I might use Shadow Ball if I can craft a team to destroy Steel-types very reliably. [/HIDE]

    Gorebyss + Huntail
    Shell Smash returns to NU in the form of... Not Clamperl! Although you can't SmashPass, you must be very careful of these two fish! Gorebyss and Huntail are both able to cause problems to teams, setting up on many choice-locked Pokemon and being able to sweep just after one turn of set-up. That's probably the only thing they're good for to be quite honest, because they can't really fill any other niche.

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb/White Herb/Focus Sash
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EV's: 4 Hp, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Grass/Substitute

    Gorebyss will certainly become a threat in the metagame, after one Shell Smash, it outspeeds a large amount of Pokemon although some scarfers will outspeed it. Scarfed Timid Rotom-S iirc, not sure. All the moves are very straight-forward, Sub can be used to set-up a lot on Alomomola or any other wall he fails to break Substitute when Gorebyss doesn't have any defense drops. Choice of item is key, White Herb erases the first defense drop of Shell Smash, while LO gives it an extra boost of power, making a +2 Surf devastating to any Pokemon not immune. While Focus Sash can be used if you're sure you can get rid of hazards and it allows you to set up on any Pokemon, while allowing you to sweep basically without any priority left on your opponent's team.

    [​IMG] @ White Herb/Focus Sash/Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EV's: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Naive (+Spe, -SpDef)
    - Shell Smash
    - Ice Beam
    - Crunch
    - Waterfall

    Huntail, the lesser used of these two Pokemon, is also not to be messed with! Mostly physical based, Huntail's strong STAB Waterfall coupled with Crunch can do a large part to the metagame. While Ice Beam hits Tangela and other Grass-types who take Waterfall and Crunch well. We went over the item choice before, so I shouldn't go through that again.[/HIDE]

    Houndoom
    Possibly the Pokemon I believe is the most broken coming down into the NU Tier. With a long history of being in tiers above NU, nobody knows what's going to happen with Houndoom in NU! Being able to run Mixed and Nasty Plot sets, Houndoom is certainly going to cause havoc in NU!

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EV's: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Hasty (+Spe, -Def)
    - Crunch/Hidden Power Grass
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Fire Blast

    Houndoom is certainly a monster, and nobody can take that away from him! This is a mixed attacking set, which can terrorize a lot of Pokemon with the right prediction. Sucker Punch gives great priority to do a lot of Pokemon, and since it's paired with Pursuit, can play mind games with the Psychic-type Pokemon in the tier. If you use Crunch, the mind games sway heavily into your favor, since Crunch does a lot more to Psychic-types if they stay in, predicting the pursuit. While Hidden Power Grass hits Water-type Pokemon like Seismitoad and Alomomola. Fire Blast is for STAB of course.

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EV's: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk) or Hasty (+Spe, -Def)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    - Dark Pulse
    - Hidden Power Grass/Sucker Punch

    Houndoom at +2 is borderline orgasmic, a +2 Fire Blast/Flamethrower is incredible, anything taking neutral damage from that usually will take 100% of damage. Fire Blast has power but Flamethrower is much more reliable. While Dark Pulse serves as another strong STAB move, hitting all Psychic-types hard, which is very good in NU. Sucker Punch could be used to hit faster Pokemon, namely scarfers like Rotom-S or F. But HP Grass hits Water-types hard as hell! Tough choice, great Pokemon.[/HIDE]

    Manectric
    My favorite Pokemon from Emerald Version returns back to NU, and I am ecstatic! A very fast Pokemon with great coverage will certainly wreak havoc upon anybody in its way! Although Manectric can realistically only run one set, but can run a plethora of viable items along with that one set.

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf/Expert Belt/Specs...kinda
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EV's: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Overheat
    - Hidden Power Grass
    - Thunderbolt

    Manectric is going to be a meanie face. Being able to bluff a choiced item so often will make your head spin. Volt Switch is clearly for initiative and Overheat is for Grass-type Pokemon who think they're hot stuff and can tank Volt Switches for days. Hidden Power Grass is for Rock/Ground-type Pokemon, also Seismitoad, who take Electric-type attacks! Life Orb adds a lot of power behind attacks, while Choice Scarf of course makes Manectric faster. Expert Belt bluffs the Choice Scarf, so Manectric will be able to lure many Pokemon in and then surprise and kill.[/HIDE]

    Primeape
    Everybody's favorite ape thing. His name says it all. Prime Ape. And that he is. Being able to outspeed a lot of the metagame and hitting hard with Close Combat while U-Turning out of Checks/Counters. Primeape in NU will only run one specific set probably, but it's going to run this set to perfection.

    [​IMG] @ Choice Band/Scarf
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EV's: 252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA) OR Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Punishment
    - U-Turn

    Primeape will definitely be using this set a lot. I opt to use Choice Band purely because U-Turns hit Psychic-Types so hard, it's basically Sawk with U-Turn. Which we could all agree would be amazing to U-Turn out of Musharna and Weezings. And by doing that, Primeape finds itself in a prime position to do heavy damage to the tier. Punishment is almost purely for Musharna and Mesprit, since we all know they like to set up Calm Minds all day on Pokemon, so Punishment will do a lot of damage to a +3 or +4 Musharna/Mesprit, probably OHKOing. [/HIDE]

    Swellow
    KACAW! Birds! Birds everywhere. We all know Swellow runs approximately... one set. It's the same, but has to be taken into account when making your team now! With Guts, Swellow can be a huge powerhouse with STAB moves like Brave Bird and Facade when paired with a Flame Orb. I think we all know the set.

    [​IMG] @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EV's: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Brave Bird
    - Facade
    - U-Turn
    - Protect

    Set explains itself. Flame Orb boosts Swellow's attack and Brave Bird + Facade destroys any Pokemon that doesn't resist it. U-Turn gives initiative and you can U-Turn out of big checks/counters instead of being forced to double switch. [/HIDE]
     
  15. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    It's also very convenient how a great counter in Poliwrath would leave NU at the same time Houndoom drops to NU. Hmmmmmm... Anyway, Houndoom is still gonna wreck as showed already by other people. Having to deal with Shell Smash users is never fun either and will force people to use scarfed Electric-types like Rotom-F, Zebstrika and now Manectric. I can see Huntail and Gorebyss being extremely overused in NU and they'll probably rise to LU again quickly. Gardevoir is another big threat that would dominate NU if it wasn't for Skuntank. Houndoom can check it too now. I can see these changes giving stall a very hard time and offensive teams are probably going to be everywhere. I guess it's somewhat overcentralizing but you can't say that before the changes take place.
     
  16. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Gorebyss and Huntail won't be any more dangerous than LO Simipour already is. Scarfers are rarely a problem for it since they're worn down throughout the match anyway, and they both don't have the base 101 speed to fall back on if they can't get a boost up.

    And fucking finally, a NU Primeape. Banded U-Turn is going to open up huge possibilities in momentum teams, since Scarf won't be nearly as useful as it was in gen 4 since Sawk's around. Plus Punishment finally has a legitimate use in this NU. Gonna be fun.

    Houndoom is going to be extremely interesting. Stopped cold by specially defensive Alomomola and Hariyama can be a wonderful counter as long as you can keep it healthy to take on NP variants. It sits at a great NU speed of 95 though, which could make its case for a possible suspect quite strong. Of course, Charizard is faster and is only 1 point behind in Special Defense, so it should be fine. Especially since getting that NP up costs a very valuable turn.

    Drapion means you'll need a poison pokemon if your teams are especially weak to Toxic status, although I bet some people are going to forget Taunt+SD Drapion exists. Scald from Alomomola kind of ruins that without Sub, but it'll still be able to wreck large portions of stall teams by itself.

    Gardevoir will be a nice addition to the tier, Wish+Will-o-Wisp is always a blast to use, and was my favorite wall ever in DP NU. It's nice as an attacker as well, just not as cool as Sheer Force Gardevoir in LU.

    Manectric and Swellow have both been here before, both were extremely annoying then, and they probably will be now. Except now Manectric has Gardevoir as an impassable wall. Worth noting that Quick Attack can be run on Swellow in place of Protect to pick off various weakened frail attackers.
     
  17. Gol D. Roger

    Gol D. Roger Key to Progression

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    So, here are my thoughts on the new changes! It's not as impressive-looking as Cased's, nor does it contain any cool pictures or anything, but I've played a fair bit of NU (pushing 2000 battles if you count alts and prereset, about to hit 1K on my main) and I think I have as much a right as anyone to discuss the impact of these changes. I don't go over any sets or anything, since I assume anyone interested in the tier enough to read this post will know a decent amount about the pokemon already (and if they don't, they'll find out more). I simply put forth a short note on each of the pokemon and how I believe the metagame will be affected by their introduction, as well as some relationships with other current NU tier members. Anyways, without further ado, my take on the NU tier changes, some of the most ground-shaking I've yet to see!


    Wifi LU -> Wifi NU
    - Drapion-->
    I'm really excited to see something other than that ugly skunk to trap psychic types, and it'll be an EXCELLENT hazard setter (and setup sweeper, although in the current NU metagame I foresee a higher usage of tspikes variants), which is a bit of a concern for the tier due to the lack of solid spinners. If cryogonal(eh, probably not), sandslash(possible) or one of the hitmons (lol, never gonna happen) had fallen with it, I think it would be easier to handle, but as it stands now I foresee a potential bit of crustle-style abuse for tspikes stall... or, alternately, an increase in usage of pokemon like Muk, Vileplume, Roselia, Garbodor, and other grounded poison-types (Like Drapion!), many of which can set their own tspikes in return, which COULD potentially lead to tspikes absorbtion/setting wars... something rarely seen in ANY meta, let alone this one.

    - Gardevoir-->
    Could be a big force in the tier, if it weren't for the metagame already having to prepare for musharna, mesprit, and co. I think it'll be prepared for well enough as it stands now, and drapion coming along with it will certainly help keep it restrained, as far as sweeping sets go. As for wall sets, I think a specially defensive Gardevoir would be highly viable, and would be able to stop opposing psychic-types and a number of fighting types (courtesy of will-o-wisp) in the tier. I would be a tad concerned that it will be too strong for the tier, but in the current metagame and with the addition of Drapion, gardevoir should do just fine. I don't foresee any suspects.

    - Gorebyss-->
    Shell Smash will become a more common move, thanks to this guy and huntail. I can see this guy being more broken than Huntail, though, just because there's a distinct lack of special walls in NU (besides licky, munchlax, etc, but only munchlax is able to take repeated hits well), so I foresee a jump back to LU simply on those merits. With the decent bulk and impressive offense, it'll be a huge threat to be sure. Of course, a timid scarfed manectric is pretty fast.... Oh, and Ditto could see a lot more usage, which might be enough to hold it back here in NU.

    - Houndoom-->
    Wow. Just, wow. I can't wait to use this guy, he'll be a MUCH cooler (and stronger and more generally useful) alternative to skuntank. A very versatile wallbreaker/sweeper/trapper type, glad to see him accompany his soon-to-be partner in crime Gardevoir down to NU. However, he was UU once for a reason... I think he'll leave, unfortunately, so have your fun while you can. It doesn't help that sawk, specially defensive bulk up gurdurr, primeape, and the very powerful emboar all easily wipe houndoom off the face of the map, sure, but I still think he simply has too much power and versatility to stay down in NU (for a similiar instance, see BISHARP'S stint in NU not too long ago)

    - Huntail-->
    As long as Alomomola is around, it should be fairly easy to handle. Other physical walls, such as rhydon, will have a very difficult time with this guy though. I foresee a big hubbub a la crawdaunt, but I don't think he'll make as big of a splash as Gorebyss or Houndoom will. I hope he stays, although if Alomomola ever leaves the tier (which I don't necessarily think would be a bad thing, and is frankly quite possible) I think he absolutely should accompany her.

    - Manectric-->
    New best electric scarfer/Life Orbed Sweeper/Ebelt user in the tier. Basically an upgraded, stronger, zebstrika, with a much better special attack stat and also having access to the coveted Overheat. I foresee a fall in the usage of Klinklang (though probably slight) due to this guy being hella fast with a choice scarf attached and easily able to revenge a Gear Grinder without maximum speed investment via a powerful supereffective Overheat.

    - Primeape-->
    I have been clamoring for this guy to be NU almost since I started playing the tier. Almost 2000 battles later, I STILL wanted him in NU.... and he's finally here! I see a new king of the fighting-types (at least fighting scarfers) in NU, and a decent answer to all those sleep powder users. A banded set could be plenty viable as well, with his high base speed. Can't wait to use this guy (U-Turn rocks!)

    - Swellow-->
    Only the best pokemon ever to exist! Zangoose is a more powerful, slower equivalent, and of course Ursaring is a MUCH more powerful, MUCH slower (and bulkier) equivalent, so I don't see a reason why swellow would be in any way broken. Pokemon like golem, rhydon, and regirock, which people tote around for Big Bear and the Goose, handle swellow even better due to a lack of close combat. I also am deeply in love with Swellow, so I plan to use it a lot. Potentially broken yes, but I think the metagame will adapt just fine (much like Gardevoir), thanks to an already existing similiar threat in Zangoose increasing the usage of Swellow's counters(namely rock-types)

    Wifi NU -> Wifi LU
    - Poliwrath-->
    Sadness :( I mean, Poliwrath deserves a solid LU or above tiering, but I was hoping I could add him to my dream team of favorites... Oh well! Looks like hes back to working with Steelix in LU. Good for him! Really very underrated in NU, but a boss in LU, so he's moved on to a better place, I think. Sad I can no longer use him, but these things happen.
    Wifi NU -> Wifi NEU
    - Munchlax-->
    Not surprised that he fell, and I won't be surprised if it comes right back up to NU with our new friends gorebyss, nasty plot houndoom, and gardevoir rampaging around.

    - Rotom-F-->
    Not surprised, and I doubt it'll come back up, with Manectric in the house as the new best choice electric type.

    - Torterra-->
    Surprised, actually. If it weren't for a massive pile of SURPRISE ice attack users, Including the powerful Sawk (whom Torterra could actually act as a decent check to otherwise), I think Torterra would be a solid top-level pokemon, what with rock polish sets sweeping many a team with his powerful STABS and a decent support set (also one of the few physical attackers that can majorly dent Alomo, via banded wood hammer) . I would love to see it come back up, but with the new special sweeping threats I doubt it will.
    Wifi NEU -> Wifi NU
    - Cacturne-->
    Good! A great spiker, and it deserves the usage that accompanies an offical NU tier ranking (the NEU tag, I've seen, tends to discourage people from using a pokemon, even if it's an excellent pick). It could contribute to spikes stacking teams becoming even more effective, and thus closer to being broken, however.

    - Electivire-->
    ALMOST too good for NU... but too frail not to be, and NU is a tier well-prepared for electric types. With manectric falling down, I expect NU to become even MORE prepared for them, and thus expect evire to remain here... or even fall back to NEU, although something so powerful should absolutely remain NU or higher for the rest of BW2.

    - Garbodor-->
    Yuck. I don't like him very much, but he's undeniably a good poison-type. Again, he could contribute to the effectiveness of spikes-stacking strategies in a tier with few viable spinners. Fortunately, except for spikes, muk and weezing are much better.

    - Glaceon-->
    VERY powerful. I've been using Glaceon forever... it was on one of my best NU teams ever, from last October. Very sleek, cool, and most importantly STRONG pokemon. Another reason to use munchlax!

    - Kangaskhan-->
    Not as good as tauros. Scrappy is really nice, though, and to be totally honest I always thought of it as NU even though it technically wasn't.

    - Simipour-->
    Maybe people will finally use less special samurott? .....Nah! The Nasty Plot set can be a nasty surprise for a lot of teams, however.

    In summary, the pokemon I'm most concerned about this cycle are Swellow, Gardevoir, Houndoom, and Gorebyss, but I think Swellow and Gardevoir are coming into a metagame that is already used to dealing with pokemon like them. Houndoom and Gorebyss, on the other hand, seem too powerful to remain for long in the tier. Houndoom, while being checked fairly easy by fighting-types and samurott, is very similiar to Bisharp in the sense that if you dont pack one of the few select counters/reliable checks to it, it will easily ruin a team with a boost up. Fortunately it will be much harder for the frail Houndoom, who lacks Bisharp's convenient steel typing, to set up, but I still think he won't stick around. Gorebyss, too, is a powerful setup sweeper, only in her instance she has the bulk to set up shell smashes reliably, and if you don't pack a regice, munchlax, or something faster that can OHKO it will utterly destroy your team, especially since the most common priority, Samurott's aqua jet, is not very effective. Thus, I think the only ones that have dropped that will have a difficult time not being put back in LU are Houndoom and Gorebyss... But, just like anything, Houndoom might be too frail and Gorebyss too slow to really pull off a full sweep. We'll just have to wait and see.

    Also, I am maintaining-as I have in the past-that a suspect test/test ban of spikes stacking would be a good idea, especially given the total lack of good rapid spin users in the tier. Call me crazy, but spikes and toxic spikes could become an overpowered strategy, if the general NU population catches on to the idea.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  18. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Wow this was a big change. O.o

    Looking forward to more offensive NU. With the given additions, Drapion and Gardevoir are the only ones that can really run defensive sets.

    Like everyone else has said, I see Spikes teams rising, while Gardevoir will give Mesprit stiff competition. I see Musharna staying fairly high in usage due to that absurd bulk though, but seeing as Drapion rapes the shit out of any set that lacks HP Ground, it'll have some trouble.

    Primeape in NU is wonderful. It solves the Sleep problems, and has U-turn, which makes it a lot more versatile than Sawk. Defiant can even be used to turn the tables on Intimidate users, although I don't see that happening much.

    Manectric... yeah, I basically see an improved Zebstrika here. MUCH better Special Attack, and only slightly worse Speed. Zebby may have to go mixed to stick out now...

    Houndoom, oh dear God he's gonna be fun. Possibly the most badass typing in the game, with Nasty Plot and mixed wallbreaking sets both perfectly viable, as well as packing more power and Speed than Skuntank, his frailty is all that's holding him back, really. n.n

    I see Gorebyss making a bigger impact on the tier than Huntail, due to having a more viable movepool. Gorebyss can't mix like Huntail though, so it should be interesting, to say the least. :3

    I'm sad to see Poliwrath leaving NU, as he's practically my favourite Fighting-type, but the guy really deserved it.

    E-Vire's back in NU, and with Manectric in the tier, he may stay too, being able to abuse those Volt Switches with his Motor Drive, and then pwn Manectric with Earthquake. Looks like fun. :3

    Torterra sinking back down to NEU again is annoying. People really need to realise this guy's potential. Though with Glaceon seeing much better usage, it may be hard. D:

    Garbodor and Kangaskhan, I don't have any huge opinions on, although Garbodor will give Drapion some competition for the team Spiker, due to being able to set both of them.
     
  19. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Best tier shifts ever. I have a long analysis here. Its too long, don't read it.

    Wifi LU -> Wifi NU
    Drapion - is a new toy for stall teams with its access to Toxic Spikes and Whirlwind/Roar but it can also run a Swords Dance set to take advantage of its strong coverage. Skuntank and Drapion shares the same typing and will have to face each other for a team spot. Overall, I think Drapion will fit the tier nicely.

    Set(s):
    [​IMG]
    Drapion @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Battle Armor
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Crunch / Poison Jab
    - Taunt / Knock Off
    - Whirlwind / Roar

    Fits stall teams nicely, Drapion is a reliable Toxic Spikes setter that can trap Ghost and Psychic types and and has access to Whirlwind/ Roar. Taunt also shuts down other walls like Alomomola and Tangela making them think twice before they switch.

    [​IMG]
    Drapion @ Life Orb / Air Balloon / Lum Berry / Black Sludge
    Trait: Sniper
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Poison Jab / Taunt / Pursuit

    Drapion can also run an effective Swords Dance set + 3 attacks and fit on offensive teams nicely. Sawk + Drapion or Primeape + Drapion will work almost the same as Sawk + Skuntank but Drapion is stronger that Skuntank because it has access to Swords Dance. Crunch is main STAB move. Earthquake hits poison and rock types, Poison Jab hits grass types especially Tangela. Taunt makes Drapion's job of setting up Swords Dance easier. Pursuit almost guarantees a KO for most Psychic/Ghost types.

    Other sets it can run is Choice Band or Swords Dance + Agility. Drapion also has access to Hone Claws but Swords Dance is better.[/HIDE]

    Gardevoir - is less interesting compared to Drapion. Gardevoir faces competition with the other Psychic types in the tier. Musharna can definitely use the Bulky Calm Mind sset better compared to Gardevoir. Offensive Calm Mind set might be the better option for Gardevoir but Mesprit can do the same thing but what sets Gardevoir apart from Mesprit is Focus Blast. Overall, Gardevoir will really have to face competition vs Mesprit and Musharna for a team spot.

    Set(s):
    [​IMG]
    Gardevoir @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast / Signal Beam
    - Shadow Ball / Substitute

    If I will use Gardevoir in NU, this is the set that I would use. Something that hits hard and at the same time has a lot of coverage moves to choose from. Psychic is ofcourse the STAB move in this set. Focus Blast for Lickilicky, Audino, Regice, Munchlax and Skuntank. Shadow Ball and Signal Beam hits Psychic types super effectively. Substitute to prevent Taunt and status moves.

    Other sets it can run is Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Wish Passing set, and Dual screens.[/HIDE]

    Gorebyss - is a good late game sweeper. And even if Baton Pass is banned in NU (Baton Pass to Eelektross could have been awesome), Gorebyss can use itself as an offensive threat to any team. With Gorebyss around, the usage of Special Samurott set will definitely decrease as Gorebyss can do this job better especially with its access to Shell Smash. Overall, Gorebyss is a great addition to the NU metagame.

    Set(s):
    [​IMG]
    Gorebyss @ White Herb / Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP /252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Even in OU, this set is very powerful and can tear unprepared teams apart. This set is an amazing late game sweeper for any offensive team. It has a nice coverage move hitting everything in NU with at least neutral damage. After 1 Shell Smash, Gorebyss with Timid nature can outspeed most of the Choice Scarf users in the tier. This set still struggles with the likes of Lickilicky but when given proper team support, Gorebyss can do it job very well.[/HIDE]

    Houndoom - the amazing Victini counter invades NU. Its Pursuit trapping skills will definitely be a plus in a tier full of Psychic types. It can also run a nasty Plot set that can 2HKO most of pokes in NU. Overall, I'm still 50:50 if Houndoom will be broken in the tier or not.

    Set(s):
    [​IMG]
    Houndoom @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Pursuit
    - Sucker Punch
    - Fire Blast
    - Crunch / Hidden Power [Grass]

    The mixed set in UU might work well in NU, a tier full of Psychic and Ghost types. Immunity to psychic type attacks gives Houndoom many opportunities to come into an attack and trap them with Pursuit.

    [​IMG]
    Houndoom @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Dark Pulse
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Fighting] / Hidden Power [Grass] / Taunt

    The scary Nasty Plot set of Houndoom 2HKOs the whole tier. Fire/Dark typing is a nice offensive typing giving Houndoom access to scary Dark Pulse and Fire Blast. Taunt can be used on the last spot to shut down walls like Lickilicky and Audino.

    Other sets it can run are probably Choice Specs and Choice Scarf but Houndoom's wall breaking capacity with Nasty Plot is really vital. [/HIDE]

    Huntail - Is the physical version of Gorebyss with access to Waterfall, Crunch and Return/Frustration (thats the only good physical moves it has). In a tier where most of the physical walls are Ground or Rock types, Huntail is usable but with Tangela, Weezing, Misdreavus and Alomomola lurking everywhere, Huntail will have a hard time sweeping.

    Set(s):
    [​IMG]
    Huntail @ White Herb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Shell Smash
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Frustration / Ice Beam

    Physically offensive is the only option for Huntail. Ice Beam on the last spot might look weird but it hits Tangela with a good damage after a Shell Smash boost.[/HIDE]

    Manetric - will be another addition to the endless list of fast and powerful electric type in the tier. Manetric is a slower but more powerful version of Zebstrika. Manectric's 70/60/60 defenses is terrible but its 105 special attack and speed is great. Overall, Manetric will have to face a lot of Electric type pokemons like Zebstrika, Raichu and Electabuzz for a team spot.

    Set(s):
    [​IMG]
    Manectric @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Overheat
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Switcheroo

    Classic LU revenge killer set is definitely usable in NU. The set functions almost the same as Zebstrika but what sets him apart is its access to Switcheroo. Switcheroo functions like Trick, its very usable if you predict an incoming Lickilicky or Audino.

    [​IMG]
    Manectric @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch

    Non-Choiced Manetric is also very viable because its 105 speed stat doesn't need any further boost. This set struggles more with Lickilicky ad Audino compared to the Choice Scarf set.

    Another usable set is Choice Specs but Choice Scarf is usually better.[/HIDE]

    Primeape - My wish was granted. :D Primeape is a faster but weaker Sawk but what really sets him apart from other Sawk is its access to U-Turn and and and Punishment! Overall, Primeape is a great addition to NU.

    Sets:
    [​IMG]
    Primeape (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Punishment

    Good speed + Choice Scarf makes Primeape another good revenge killer in the tier. Access to U-Turn gives it a chance to scout the opponent's switch in. Choice Scarf with Jolly nature is enough to outspeed Choice Scarf Timid Rotom-S or Rotom-F. Punishment hits Calm Mind Musharna and Calm Mind Gardevoir really hard. Vital spirit gives Primeape a chance to switch into sleep inducing moves like Sleep Power and Yawn fro Vilepume and Torkoal respectively.

    Other sets that Primeape can run is Choice Band and Expert Belt/Life Orb set.[/HIDE]

    Swellow - Last but not the least is Swellow. is one of the fastest things in NU next to Electrode and Ninjask. 125 base speed stat + Guts ability triggered by Toxic Orb makes Swellow a very scary attacker. What hinders Swellow is its lack of coverage move to hit Rock and Steel types but with proper team support, Swellow can tear teams apart like what Zangoose and Ursaring usually do.

    Set(s):
    [​IMG]
    Swellow @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn
    - Quick Attack / Protect

    This is Swellow's only usable set, a Guts sweeping set with Toxic Orb. The set functions almost the same as Zangoose and Ursaring but what sets Swello apart from the two is U-Turn. Unfortunately this set struggles a lot with Steel and Rock types and its Flying typing gives it weakness to Stealth Rocks.[/HIDE]

    Expectations:
    Mesprit, Musharna, Kadabra and Haunter's usage will all go down because of the presence of two new threatening Dark types + the presence of a new Psychic type, Gardevoir.
    Skuntank's usage will also decrease with the presence of Houndoom and Drapion.
    Sawk might be #1 again in the usage ranking even if it faces Primeape for team spot.
    Spikes stacking teams will be very popular (and broken?) in a tier that lacks a reliable spinner.
    NU tier will have an equal amount of Offensive and stall teams.
    VolTurn will be very viable with the likes of Manetric, Swellow and Primeape in the tier.

    Some of my expectations might be wrong some of them might be right, lets see what happens for the next few weeks.
     
  20. New Breed

    New Breed ka$h

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    With Primeape, Drapion and Houndoom dropping and with them all being Base 95 Speed I think its going to focus the tier around the Base 95 range. Primeape is going to be very good, getting access to U-Turn and being able to lure out it's best checks and then pursuit trap them with Skuntank/Drapion. Drapion is pretty much a Skuntank with SD, a set of like SD/Crunch/Poision Jab/Eq seems cool as a late game sweeper so I'm looking forward to trying it out. Gardevior faces the same problems as Musharna, Mesprit and Misdreavus, being pursuit trapped by Skuntank AND now Drapion and Houndoom. Manetric is my pick to get extremely popular, its extremely fast and can revenge the likes of Swellow, Houndoom, Primeape and Drapion making it a great Choice Scarf user for Offensive teams.
     
  21. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Speaking of Manectric, I've just taken the liberty of writing up an analysis for it. xD

    Should I have waited a month to see if it stays NU first?

    EDIT: I dunno about you guys, but one thing I'd like to see in NU is Hitmonchan. He doesn't make a huge impact on LU, only finding about 5-6% usage on average, and he would actually make a good NU spinner, with Foresight, Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock resistance.

    What're your thoughts on this?
     
  22. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Hitmonchan is too good for NU imo 110 base Special Defense(Lickilicky only has 95 base SpDef) and 105 Attack is huge. Speaking of Rapid Spin, GDI Sandslash still in LU.
     
  23. topah

    topah Active Member

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    oh jeez. big stuff this time.
    Gardevoir darling. <3
    R.I.P. sweet poliwhirl prince.
     
  24. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    But it's also got a shitty base 50 HP to put things into perspective, and Sawk's both more powerful and faster than Hitmonchan. I reckon he would fit in well. xD
     
  25. Wander

    Wander Shitty Wizard

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    Problem is, Hitmonchan won't be losing usage any time soon as it's one of LU's premier spinners.

    NU looks so sweet this cycle, so many new powerful toys.
     
  26. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    Lol, Gorebyss is way too good for NU, it rocks even in LU.

    Drapinion has potential a dark type not weak to fighting/bug.
     
  27. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    Might give Gorebyss a run, was a lot of fun in LU though I was constantly threatened by scarf Rotom-formes.

    HOLY FUCK HOUNDOOM
    And Poliwrath, the one Pokemon that could beat it, rose...
     
  28. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I wouldn't say the one pokemon. Thick Fat Hariyama rapes the shit out of it, Gurdurr has Mach Punch and enough bulk to survive a Fire Blast easy, Emboar resists literally everything it'll use...

    But yeah, other than Fighting-types and Lickilicky, Houndoom's gonna be pretty hard to stop.
     
  29. Slowkii

    Slowkii Banned

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    You're forgetting wartortle, who can spin against missy.

    Swellow in NU will be interesting, yet another facader added to the list..
     
  30. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    That doesn't make Wartortle a good spinner, Slowkii. Wartortle lacks reliable recovery, and is extremely vulnerable to all three hazards. It may be (arguably) NU's best spinner, but it's far from a good one.
     
  31. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    Drapion/houndoom will be interesting, new dark types w/ strong pursuits <3
     
  32. AmourShipper

    AmourShipper meh i'm bored

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    PO Trainer Name:
    AmourShipper
    Damn, this is probably the largest number of changes to NU in the history of 5th Gen.

    Gardevoir would be powerful and certainly be a force to be reckoned with. Musharna and Mesprit will still give it really stiff competition for a teamslot though, so I'm not THAT excited. And it ain't dethroning Mesprit any day now, it still is more mortally terrified of physical attacks and SubCM Mesprit will remain a big threat.

    Houndoom/Drapion+Sawk would dominate NU. Damn, let's get the party started.

    Primeape and Manectric dropping will make VoltTurn pretty common in NU. Mesprit+Manectric+Primeape, anyone?

    Swellow dropping. Damn. Get ready for destruction time.

    Finally Kanga made it out of NEU. Not sure why it wasn't used more, it's amazing.
     
  33. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    After some testing, here are my thoughts on the Pokes who dropped:

    Swellow

    Man this thing packs a punch. BUT it can't scratch Rock and Steel types, so it needs a good Ground type teammate that can deal with them. It is very predictable, since there's only really one set it can run.
    Not Broken

    Manectric

    Rotom-S, you're fired. Manectric is a much better Choice item user since it's not SR weak, has a better ability and is much faster. Special walls like Likilicky give it trouble, and it has a chronic case of 4 moveslot syndrome. Thunderbolt and Fire move are non negotiable. It's got to cram Switcheroo, Hidden Power Grass/Ice, Volt Switch and possibly Signal Beam in the final 2 slots.
    Powerful, still undecided on Broken or not

    Gardevoir

    Mesprit, Musharna, you've got yourself some stiff competition. I think it beats Mesprit in most areas due to its wider movepool and better special attack. And while Musharna is much bulkier, Gardevoir gets moves Musharna could only dream of like Will-O-Wisp, Memento and Destiny Bond. The Support set was OK, but my favourite so far is the Choice Specs set. It does live in fear of Trapper Skuntank though.
    Not Broken

    Houndoom

    The trapper set can counter all the ghost and psychic types in the tier pretty much by itself. The Nasty Plot set is absolutely lethal IF it gets the chance to set up - due to its frailty and hazard weakness, it struggles to find the space to set up. Hariyama is pretty much the only counter in the tier. 252/0 Gurdurr is OHKOd by a +2 Fire Blast, while 252/0 Alomola is OHKOd by a +2 Hidden Power Grass.

    Leaning towards broken at this stage

    Gorebyss

    Very good if it gets going, although still being outsped by Scarfed 95s + at +2 cuts into its viability. It's also very predictable and needs a lot of support to do its best.

    Not broken

    Huntail

    Mediocre in LU, still mediocre in NU. Carracosta does physical Shell Smash better, while Gorebyss does special Shell Smash better. It does have a niche in running a mixed Shell Smash set, but to be honest it needs even more support than Gorebyss and just isn't that powerful.

    Not even slightly broken. May go NEU.

    Primeape

    Very good it and run attacker due to its resistance to Stealth Rock, although Musharna and Misdreavus pretty much stop it dead. It packs a punch and can be very dangerous late game. However, its defences suck so if it can't OHKO something it will die pretty quickly.

    Not Broken

    Drapion

    Haven't used it myself yet, but I haven't had much trouble with other ones.
     
  34. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    Eh, you say things like "gurrdurr ohko'd by +2" but if gurrdurr switches into the nasty plot, mach punch after rocks ohkos :P I'm leaning towards not broken on even houndoom tbh, things like licky, hell even probo can counter it. scarfed fighting types such as sawk, primape can revenge kill it, or prio with gurrdurr, bulky thick fat pokes like harriyama, etc.

    I'm leaning towards not broken on everything, I think they'll be fine in NU.

    Meh on the drapion+sawk thing, alom shuts it down easily
     
  35. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    That's true, but I did mention that it has trouble setting up. And Mach Punch from Gurdurr doesn't OHKO (it does come close though), so if SR isn't down (a big if I know) then Houndoom can live a Mach Punch and OHKO with a +2 Fire Blast. Scarf Fighting types are good revenge killers, but none of them can switch in. Even an unboosted Fire Blast OHKOs Sawk and Primeape (the former if Sturdy's broken).

    252Atk Guts Gurdurr (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 4HP/0Def Flash Fire Houndoom (Neutral): 73% - 86% (216 - 254 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Houndoom (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 4HP/0SpDef Sawk (Neutral): 97% - 116% (286 - 339 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 88% chance to OHKO. Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252SpAtk Life Orb Houndoom (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 4HP/0SpDef Primeape (Neutral): 111% - 131% (303 - 358 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    Having good revenge killers doesn't mean a Pokemon isn't broken.
     
  36. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    Meh. Houndoom is a bit too slow to be considered overpowered. Drapion speed ties and kills with Earthquake for example while resisting Sucker Punch. Floatzel outspeeds, Swellow, Primeape, there's Hariyama that fully counters it, Gurdurr ko's with Mach Punch, .... Manectric, Raichu and Electabuzz can kill it with Choice Specs Thunderbolt after Rocks, the latter two can kill with Focus Blast from any set. It can't just switch in and out either because it's actually frail and also weak to SR and Life Orb wears it down.

    Gorebyss on the other hand. You better have a fast scarfer or some damn strong priority on your team because he just destroys everything else. Specially defensive Alomomola can take one HP Grass at +2, but can only use Toxic back. If it happens to be SubSmash then you might as well forfeit. SubSmash also stops the rare Ditto, though you're not gonna set up Shell Smash either way if your opponent has it ofcourse. There's not much that outspeeds a +2 Gorebyss in NU either. It's limited to Scarfed Electric-types like Zebstrika, Electabuzz, Raichu, Manectric, Rotom-S, Rotom-F and Scarfed Primeape. Scarfed Sawk, the most popular scarfer doesn't cut it speed wise. Can't think of any other commonly used scarfers that can outspeed it. None of them can switch in safely either.
     
  37. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Oh, and one pokemon everyone seems to be forgetting on the 'countering Houndoom' thing is Emboar. Seriously, the guy completely cockblocks Houndoom.
     
  38. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    As of now, Houndoom seems the best of the bunch.
    Swellow is about as good as I expect, potent late game but needs to get-in at the right time.
    Drapion is OK for Tspikes, never seen SD though.
    Manetric is very good, an improved Zebrastika, but not broken either.
    Gorebyss / Huntail are ok, annoying with boosts but can be dealt with.
    Gardvoir is versatile and helpful on a lot of teams but easily beatable by plenty of Pokemon.
    Houndoom, as I said before, seems to be the strongest.
    Pursuit, Sucker, Crunch, and FB is really good and strong with Life Orb and nice attacking stats.
    Also, Nasty Plot is surprising, but successful.
    Nothing really is a full-stop to Houndoom, but it can be revenged due to it being really frail. (Assuming Sucker Punch doesn't kill the revenge killer!)
     
  39. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    After playing around with the new pokes a bit here are my revised opinions:

    Huntail - Never seen it, always an inferior option as a shell smasher.

    Gorebyss - Bigger threat than i anticipated, but with scarf manectric and Primeape being very common, it will rarely sweep.

    Drapion - Rarely seen this, Skuntank and houndoom are better trappers, and it's sd set was been very underwhelming, its only real niche is as a bulky t spiker, not seen anyone utilise that yet though.

    Gardevoir - Almost all Gardevoirs ive seen have been specs, and it acts as a very good wall breaker, being able to heavily dent pokemon or cripple them with trick. It's easily kept in check by skuntank and co. Can act as a decent special wall, and can cripple skuntank with will o wisp, however it's 2hko'd by cb sawk all the time after rocks, and most fighting types are physical, so it cant put its resistances to great use, and is easily trapped by houndoom.

    Swellow - As strong as first anticipated, can decimate teams lacking a rock/steel type and its blistering speed allows it to pick apart teams with alot of tanks, or fast frail teams. However its own frailty and wekness to rocks means it rarely stays around for long.

    Manectric - By far the best Electric in the tier, it has the best movepool, ability and a very nice base 105 speed. Other electric types pale in comparison. Its being used alot, probably because it acts as a decent check to itself.

    Primeape - Another very effective pokemon, a fighting type with u turn and base 95 speed has been very nice, and (imo) functions best when equipping a choice scarf. Probably my go to scarfer as of now.

    Houndoom - Very good pokemon, my go to trapper as of now, offers 2 immunities, priority and can easily trap and destroy misdreavus and most psychics. Not seen the nasty plot set very often, but can usually only pull off 1 kill being being easily revenged/forced out as its weak to the ever common scarf ape and common priority.

    Great:
    Houndoom
    Manectric
    Primape

    Good:
    Gardevoir
    Gorebyss
    Swellow

    Bad:
    Drapion
    Huntail
     
  40. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    Drapion is very underrated ]: I've been using a SD set with Toxic Spikes. With Skuntank being replaced by Houndoom on most teams, and the general lack of good poison-types in NU (maybe Garbodor and Roselia, but usage of those is low) Toxic Spikes can be very effective. Don't underestimate it as a sweeper either. It sets up easily against Psychic and Grass-types and other Poison-types as well. It has the same speed stat as Houndoom which is great as it resists Sucker Punch and Houndoom has to force a speed tie. Crunch + EQ is amazing coverage and hits everything but Murkrow in NU I think. Amazing physical bulk helps too, and even it's special defense is high enough to take a hit from Scarf Manectric. I'm really pleased with it.
     
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