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[BW2] May and June Wifi LU tier / Potential Suspect Discussions

Discussion in 'Gen 5 LU' started by meeps, Apr 30, 2013.

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  1. meeps

    meeps Well-Known Member

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    Wifi LU tier leaders: Tyki, The Real Elmo, and Xdevo

    Wifi UU -> Wifi LU
    Dusclops
    Gastrodon

    Wifi LU -> Wifi UU
    Nidoqueen
    Tornadus

    Wifi LU -> Wifi NU
    Drapion
    Gardevoir
    Gorebyss
    Houndoom
    Huntail
    Manectric
    Primeape
    Swellow

    Wifi NU -> Wifi LU
    Poliwrath

    Quite a few major changes have occurred in this tier shift, most notably Nidoqueen and Tornadus both rising to UU. Nidoqueen was arguably one of the biggest offensive threat in the tier for nearly a year, and Tornadus was also a major offensive threat in the tier. Regarding the drops; Dusclops and Gastrodron which are known to be more defensive oriented pokes. Dusclops may become one of the tier’s premier spinblockers, will great bulk being able to take hits better than the other Ghost-types in the tier. Gastrodon wasn’t much of a surprise dropping, and it shouldn’t be very problematic making a great special wall or special attacker in the tier.

    Discuss potential suspects and the current tier in general.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2013
  2. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    YES!!! TORNADUS IS GONE!!! Happy days!! It never should've been allowed to drop in the first place.

    It'll be interesting to see LU sans Nidoqueen. It's been one of the most popular Pokemon there ever since LU was created. Not surprised Dusclops dropped - Cofagrigus and Chandelure did spinblocking much better IMO. I am kind of surprised Gastrodon fell down, but I guess there wasn't much demand for a bulky water type in UU.
     
  3. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf Active Member

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    Aw shit, my dominant team of Acro Drifblim + AcroNadus is gone. This should be an interesting change.
     
  4. DSM01

    DSM01 Jammin' out

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    Aw man, I was looking forward to getting Mismagius and Registeel, too. Guess they're just too good for us... Still, losing Nido and Tornadus (and Meloetta soon...?) and gaining Dusclops is sure to make LU significantly more stall-oriented. People are going to have to start packing Poison types to counteract all the Toxic Spikes that are sure to come.
     
  5. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I first thought Dusknoir was the one dropping when I read the thread crystal moogle put together in the staff forums. Then I realized what it actually was and flipped out. Dusclops is going to be a huge defensive pivot, seeing as how the only things that can 2HKO it are the likes of CB Entei/Druddigon and similarly powerful attacks. Spin blocking is just a nice bonus.

    Gastrodon is far less interesting on the other hand. What offensive water types are there besides SS Omastar(runs HP Grass) and Feraligatr(isn't all that common and runs through it anyway)?
     
  6. Tyki

    Tyki Change

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    Wifi UU -> Wifi LU
    Dusclops Gonna be able to be a better spin blocker than Dusknoir. Maybe it will finally fill the hole Cofag created when it rose.
    Gastrodon Seems pretty fair actually. Bulky water type wall that isn't Slowking/Lanturn?!?! This gives us another electric immunity, though it will make Lilligant, Sceptile and the like more threatening.

    Wifi LU -> Wifi UU
    Nidoqueen Going to be missed honestly. It was a great poke, though now maybe Stall with TSpikes will be viable now.
    Tornadus Glad this thing is gone. Hidden OP, with good special and physical sets. One less threat I have to worry about.
     
  7. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Question is: With Nidoqueen and Tornadus gone, will stall rise to the top of LU?
    Or with the plethora of dominant LU offensive threats still take precedence?
    Personally thinking Offensive will still be good, but I might have to give stall a go now that it's..viable (couldn't really run it with Nidoqueen and Tornadus, IMO.)
    Also, glad to see Poliwrath got sufficient usage again - should've been LU all along!
     
  8. Celestial Phantom

    Celestial Phantom YAHA

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    Devo you dunce...they are both UU now.

    Anyway, the LU tier shifts, will arguably be more balanced now, all we're really waiting on is meloetta and how her role in LU will continue dominance. Gastrodon and Dusclops will be looking to be great additions as dusclops is a great spin blocker and defensive behemoth with the use of eviolite, and gastrodon is just a cool ground/water type pokemon. I don't really see stall rising to the top as most people aren't great at using stall based teams finch (at least in the general populous). They'll be great pokemon with defensive bulk on teams, but there are still probably a fair few pokemon that can be used against them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2013
  9. New Breed

    New Breed ka$h

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    Being primarily an offensive player I'm quite happy to see both Nidoqueen and Tornadus go, it makes alot of my teams better and not having to run something like Defensive Omastar on offensive teams just so I can switch into Tornadus is great. Dusclops is being hyped a bit but honestly I don't think it will be too great, 0 offensive pressence, lack of lefties and no reliable recovery outside of Rest and Pain Split will hurt it, All it can really do is sit there and Will-O-Wisp things and still loses to Kabutops:


    252Atk Life Orb +2 Kabutops (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Dusclops (+Def): 60% - 71% (171 - 202 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.


    Meaning that after SR Kabutops can finish Dusclops off even after the burn, not to mention that Stall really needs to run Spiritomb to have a reliable check to Gallade and Meloetta. I highly doubt stall will rise drastically with things like Meloetta, Zoroark and Moltres still in the tier.
     
  10. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Wifi UU -> Wifi LU
    Dusclops - more walls cool.
    Gastrodon - Will fit well in LU imo.

    Wifi LU -> Wifi UU
    Nidoqueen - gdi I'll have to resign my LU team. D:
    Tornadus - finally this thing is gone. :D

    Wifi LU -> Wifi NU
    Drapion - Skuntank vs Drapion for team spot.
    Gardevoir - FINALLY.
    Gorebyss - interesting. :3
    Houndoom - creepy its broken
    Huntail - lol
    Manectric - Another generic electric type, Manectric will have to fight other fast and powerful electric types for team spot.
    Primeape - I will definitely use this one *makes a VolTurn team*.
    Swellow - Swellow will have to fight Zangoose and Ursaring for team spot.

    Wifi NU -> Wifi LU
    Poliwrath - getting the usage it deserves. :3
     
  11. Mysterion

    Mysterion Never give up

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    I am glad to see, that Nidoqueen finally left the tier cause it will change the metagame drastically and it won't be that offensive anymore, it might open more chances for stall.
    Dusclops is interesting, with it's huge bulk and the ability to spinblock, stall teams might become a bit better, although it could easily end as a setup bait.
    The drop of Houndoom to NU sucks a bit people should learn to use it in LU. Just as a scpecial attcker it is outclassed by some stuff, but it is an amazing mixed attacker, which can easily beat the common Tangrowth+Slowking core.
    The raise of Poliwrath is not surprising, with it's good bulk and typing it can handle a lot of stuff in LU.
    That Gorebyss and Huntail drop is even less surprising cause without BP they are clearly outclassed by Omastar.
     
  12. .Rawr!

    .Rawr! c(°3°)כ

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    Tornadus gone!!!! *Oh fucking yes!* (bye bye rain sets and bulk up sets)

    Nidoqueen gone, meh... never had problems with her anyway.


    Edit1: Just did a LU battle, and my opponent had a tornadus -_-. So its banned or no?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  13. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    It wasn't banned, it just moved up due to getting more use in UU. It will be UU soon but the changes haven't been implemented yet.
     
  14. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto if your world falls apart, i'd start a riot

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    Love the new LU meta. Stall pretty cool atm gaining a Beast of a Spinblocker and losing 2 of the most powerful threats to it. Gastrdon eh.. dont It'll be a threat to LU lol.
     
  15. Wander

    Wander Shitty Wizard

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    Ahh, I've been bitching everyone to use Houndoom more but I didn't think it'd go so far as drop to NU, it really is an amazing mixed attacker in LU.

    Drops don't really look anything special, Dusclops will be a nice plus for defensive teams but offensive teams will definitely stay away from it due to having no offensive presence. Gastrodon was fun in UU, with bulky waters running everywhere, can't say it'll be as good in LU but a welcome addition nonetheless.

    Nidoqueen rising is big, really big. She was so influential in LU and has become the face of offense, but many teams will find her absence a blessing... Can people stop using Cefable now? Thanks. Tornadus leaving was expected, it was pretty annoying in LU, I wouldn't say broken but sort of glad it's gone.

    Manectric, Swellow, Drapion and Primeape were all situational Pokemon in LU that I really like, they are cool mons and I hope they find a better home in NU.
     
  16. Cobalt

    Cobalt Embrace the Cold

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    ok houndoom is great; that thing should have been used more. Nido I wanted gone for ages. I don't think Gastro will have a big impact; just ,ake people run rotom-c, sceptile etc more often. dusclops is a great spin blocker. I tried a Clef, Dusk, and Crustle core, and it wasn't half bad. Sadly, it can't strike back, but it also can't exactly wall to full potential due to it's abysmal stats in the HP stat. Huntail lol. Gore isn't bad tbh, just outclassed by Oma.

    Drapion is the new Skunk. As the same with Garde, and Kadabra, Mesprit, and Musharna.

    Swellow is great; I REALLY hated the rocks weakness/ It didn't help Swellow become an amazing, ressilient Pokemon. Manectric is k. Always outclassed by Rotom-C, and other Electrics although they have different roles. Finally, Primeape I always liked; made VoltTurn interesting to use.

    This LU cycle is going to be interesting...
     
  17. DelanHaar6

    DelanHaar6 Member

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    I'm gonna miss Tornadus. That thing won me many a game with its great speed and powerful Acrobatics. At least it's getting the usage it deserves in UU and we won't have to have a suspect controversy over it anytime soon.

    Nidoqueen...I personally didn't see it as detrimental to the metagame, just a dominant force. I'll miss it too, but I most definitely will not miss having to switch into its deadly attacks.

    Dusclops will be annoying. The lack of powerful Dark and Ghost STAB moves means that, with an eviolite, this thing will almost never get OHKO'd, or even 2HKO'd in many cases.

    I'm not that hyped about Gastrodon. Sceptile, Lilligant and Rotom-C are common enough that I doubt its presence will be felt that much.
     
  18. AmourShipper

    AmourShipper meh i'm bored

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    Poor Gardevoir suffered from being completely and utterly outclassed by Meloetta. And even in NU it still has to compete with Mesprit and Musharna, but it still does well there, lol. But eh, poor thing has fallen out of LU entirely for now (Melo might get banned so there's still hope)

    Drapion was shit and Bisharp and Krookodile made it a liability. Speaking of which, I was expecting Absol to drop because Bisharp outclasses the hell out of it. Swellow shouldn't have dropped because it is so amazing in conjunction with Magneton. Manectric dropping is actually pretty surprising imo because he's an awesome revenge killer in LU. Primeape was meh but okay then. Houndoom dropping is surprising, though Houndoom+Sawk would dominate there. Gorebyss and Huntail were horribly outclassed by Omastar and Carracosta, respectively, so no surprise there. Poliwrath finally made LU; that thing walls almost every physical attacker around, and Dusclops and Steelix aren't quite Poliwrath level but are good nonetheless.

    Good riddance Tornadus and Nidoqueen so now I can enjoy a better LU. Dusclops dropping is really cool and he makes for a nice defensive spinblocker; I ran a Trick Room set on him and he worked wonders with Slowking and the two lake trio members available in LU. Gastrodon is meh so I'm not too hyped about that.

    I wanted Mismagius though. That would wreck shit like a boss.
     
  19. Celestial Phantom

    Celestial Phantom YAHA

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    Been testing the hell out of the meta over the last 3 days almost now. Gastro has a lot of hype around it and is good, but its kind of mediocre really. It's pulling off the recover + scald/ice beam/earth power/earthquake thing it can do which is great coverage to have in LU especially with stab on 3 of those moves, and outlast the other pokemon with either a strong special or physical investment to defenses, but you are kind of stuck between taking one or the other and relying on a secondary partner for the opposite defensive position. Dusclops tanks special hits like a boss and all, but honestly not feeling the love for its physical defense yet. Yeah, it takes on the "weaker" meaning average physical hits but come up with the big stab hitters/banders, that is when it just does not like the hits, especially when almost having to run rest talk to be continually effective.

    I've seen a lot more work with queen/tornadus gone, as hazard stacking has been rising up since they have been gone, and a lot of the teams I've been facing use a combo spike stall now with blocker more-so than I've seen in the past. Tomb still best spin blocker imo and ghost to use, but sadly is predictable. Haven't really seen meloetta too much yet but a enough tombs to know why people aren't using it.
     
  20. Superafim

    Superafim Are you here with me?

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    Durant meta is back ^-^
     
  21. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Since this place is dead, I'll revive it a bit.

    What are your opinions on Durant?

    Choice Band Durant is extremely powerful and can 2HKO the entire tier with SR + one layer of Spikes. Poliwrath takes a minimum of 101.75 after two Superpowers if SR and Spikes are up. Entei and Moltres are 2HKO'd cleanly after just SR (Entei can be OHKO'd with Superpower, Moltres by basically every move Durant will use). And, unlike the other things that can 2HKO the whole metagame, Durant is really fast. Its physical bulk isn't that bad either. Stuff like LO Hitmonchan with Mach Punch only do ~35. Of course, there is the whole 20% of missing and fucking up hard, and that special defense is awful.
     
  22. Scene

    Scene reverie

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    Durant's interesting. My initial reaction has to be that it's not broken, but I've never tried Banded or had the luck to properly abuse Hustle. I'll do some more testing later and come back with more opinions.

    +
    Superb speed stat of 109- really dangerous
    Strong typing
    Good physical defence to tank random hits
    Blistering Attack stat factoring in Hustle
    Perfect boosting move in Hone Claws

    -
    Destroyed by burn or paralysis
    Permanent 80% accuracy
    Abysmal HP and SpDef
    Low base power moves overall
    Limited movepool (predictable)
    NEEDS rocks up to sweep - struggles without Spikes midgame too

    Essentially if you have luck, eliminate faster opponents, have extensive hazard support and can predict like a god, Banded Durant looks superbly broken. On the other hand, that list of negatives is long, and equally the list of pokes that can sweep with those conditions is hardly short. Yes Durant's fast, I just can't quite picture it as broken. Good, certainly. Broken, ehhhhhh.
     
  23. Celestial Phantom

    Celestial Phantom YAHA

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    I have to legit say that Durant may be on the verge of broken. If you look past hustle (one BIG negative does not mean it can't work around it) it has a pretty good defensive typing, superb 109 base speed that outspeeds near 100% of the tier naturally, and 109 attack/112 defense. The lacking special stat will mean it can't switch into any special/mixed attackers basically at all, and status will cripple it. LO, muscle band, banded give it the extra power needed to necessarily kill near the whole tier in 1 or 2 shots guaranteed with the right coverage. Lum can prevent those nasty burn/paras while you get basically a free HC up and as long as it's not dusknoir/dusclops or poliwrath can proceed to do the damage it usually would without worry.

    Of course it has limited coverage with moves needed, but with 2 stab of iron head/x-scissor, HC, rock filler, superpower, and thunder fang. As well the hustle sets will be more of a luck based risk factor, but it technically can run a surprise factor in swarm and still do damage. A lot of using durant does come with how well the flow of battle goes to dictate it. In theory I find it would be close to broken in what it can do and the limited things that can hit it back if it manages to set up being limited to revenge scarfers and sceptile/accelgor and potentially swellow depending on rocks being up/LO as the item. Realistically it usually is I sweep if I manage the HC up and they lack dusclops, dusknoir, or poliwrath, otherwise I will need to switch out after I got it up.
     
  24. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    While Durant does need luck, it honestly doesn't need that much prediction or hazard support, aside from Stealth Rocks (which are insanely easy to get up). The only reason I mentioned Spikes is to guarantee the 2HKO on Poliwrath. There are only 2-3 things in LU (one of which is Defensive Luxray) that require any level of Spikes. As for prediction, you only need extremely simple prediction to know to hit Magneton or Poliwrath with Superpower. All of Durant's other checks are easily worn down to the point that they are 2HKO'd by the resisted hit. Unless they happen to be a dedicated Physical Wall, which are extremely easy to see coming (Oh look, a Steelix) and hit with the appropriate move, there really isn't anything that Durant can't kill with 3 resisted attacks.
     
  25. Tyki

    Tyki Change

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    Durant also loses to pretty much every special Scarfer, which are pretty common. I need to do some more testing to really see how it works out however. It may be hard to wall, but revenging isn't hard at all.
     
  26. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Also can be revenge killed 100% of the time by scarf magneton, so if it's really causing you trouble magneton guarantees it's death
     
  27. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    Something I've noticed- people tend to complain when their durant misses. You CHOSE that ability, that power you wanted comes at a price. Don't complain because you miss, if you didn't want to miss, should have used swarm. 80% accuracy for that power is still really good though.
     
  28. Cobalt

    Cobalt Embrace the Cold

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    Poliwrath shuts down Durant in all honesty, so it does have a counter. Just bringing that up..~
     
  29. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Poliwrath can be 2HKO'd by CB Durant with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes up. Poliwrath also has to be at 100% to even attempt to counter Durant, even minor scratch damage will mean that Poliwrath is guaranteed to be 2HKO'd. While it is a really good check, it isn't hard to get out of the way with either a good prediction or the use of a tiny bit of team support, so its not a complete counter at all.


    EDIT: 1,200 posts woop
     
  30. Cobalt

    Cobalt Embrace the Cold

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    Isn't there a thing called Rapid Spin for that problem? Poliwrath is still the best counter there is...
     
  31. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Also, if Hone Claws Durant has boosted:

    252Atk Life Orb +1 Hustle Durant (Neutral) Superpower vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Water Absorb Poliwrath (+Def): 65% - 77% (250 - 296 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant (Neutral) Superpower vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Water Absorb Poliwrath (+Def): 44% - 51% (169 - 198 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    Durant is a forbidable threat, but I don't think it's broken. It folds to pretty much any neutral special move, and you have a choice when playing with it. 1, use Hone Claws to negate Hustle's accuracy drops, but lose out on coverage or 2, forgo Hone Claws for extra coverage, but have all your moves at Stone Edge level accuracy.
     
  32. Celestial Phantom

    Celestial Phantom YAHA

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    While I'll agree with the top part, having hone claws doesn't necessarily lose out on coverage. Hone Claws, X-Scissor, Superpower, Rock Slide is just as much coverage as it needs to effectively kill off things it outspeeds. Iron Head is a strong option still, but seeing as it was mainly for queen who is not gone as it was pointed out to me, it's not really needed anymore except for neutral damage on fighting types which superpower can do. Now maybe neutral hits on ghost types if you don't run Stone Edge, but like I said the loss of power really isn't missed on it when it does so much in one hit and can hit so much. Thunder Fang can do work too, but Rock/Fight coverage hits just as much on the water/flying types you'll need since a lot of the water types are dual types and fall to one of the other coverage moves.
     
  33. New Breed

    New Breed ka$h

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    [​IMG]
    Durant (F) @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Hone Claws
    - X-Scissor
    - Superpower
    - Thunder Fang

    Okay so a bit of talk about Durant so I thought I would post about it, this is probably the most effective set that Durant can run atm, Hone Claws is of course to boost both Attack and Accuracy, X-Scissor is the solid stab move of choice and Iron Head really isn't needed at all as it was only useful for OHKO'ing Nidoqueen at +1. Superpower gets coverage on Steel types such as Steelix and Escavalier as well as Entei (straight OHKO after SR) hitting them for decent damage and easily allowing Durant to plow past them with some prior damage. Thunder Fang gets coverage on both Poliwrath and Moltres is generally better than Rock Slide, allowing you to get past Poliwrath without lowering your attack. I personally prefer Lum Berry over Life Orb just for the ability to set up on extremely common Pokemon like Uxie as well as adding a bit more survivability which is something Durant does struggle with. As a couple of people have mentioned, after SR and 1 layer of Spikes Durant can straight up OHKO the likes of Poliwrath and Steelix and proceed to sweep many unprepared teams due it's great Speed, Physical Defence and coverage.

    Although Durant still suffers from the same problems that it had from when we first re-introduced it back into the tier, a garbage Special Defence and Hp stat leave it very vulnerable to any Choice Scarf user with a Special Attack and if you're that weak to Durant you can literally chuck a Hidden Power [Fire] on any Choice Scarf user whether it be Physical or Special and get an OHKO such as Krookodile and Medicham (as last resort I know) This is not even considering the fact that Nidoqueen leaving the tier really only made Choice Scarf Electric types better in LU, Pokemon such as Rotom-C and Galvantula are extremely common meaning Durant is either forced to not set up and risk missing or set up and get forced out right after. Durant is also extremely easy to wear down if running Life Orb and thats the main problem I have when using it, you just can't afford to come in multiple times throughout the match and if a Special Attacking Choice Scarf user is alive you will never sweep.

    I don't really rate CB Durant at all, in theory it's the most broken thing ever, but in practice it's lack luster. Even with Nidoqueen leaving Offense is generally the preferred playstyle for most LU players and CB Durant struggles so badly against Offense, one miss costing it's life and not having the ability to switch moves really hurts. If I wanted to run a wall breaker I would run something much more reliable than Durant as any good Stall team in LU either has a Steelix and a Poliwrath or Alomomola leaving you unable to do too much. Alomomola and Poliwrath can fish for burns with Scald and Alomomola can Wish + Protect stall until you miss.

    Of course with hazards CB Durant will tear through pretty much any team but luckily the two best Spinners in the tier (SD Kabutops and Foresight Hitmonchan) can both reliably spin vs the ghosts in the tier and it doesn't take too much effort to spin. I really just can't find Durant broken due to how the metagame is at the moment.
     
  34. DelanHaar6

    DelanHaar6 Member

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    People have already covered revenging Durant and two of its biggest stops in Poliwrath and Steelix, but I haven't seen anyone mention Dusclops yet. With a physically defensive spread, it's a pretty good check, fearing only a +1 LO Iron Head, which 2HKOs after SR. Plus it has that nasty flinch chance. I know Dusclops has virtually no offensive presence, but it can at least threaten Durant out with W-o-W.

    Here's the Iron Head calc, for those who are interested:

    252 +1 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Dusclops (+Def) : 47.54% - 55.99%
    After entry hazards: (59.86% - 68.31%) 2 hits to KO
     
  35. Tyki

    Tyki Change

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    Tyki
    Ok, I'm going to make this short, as I'm on vacation, though I want you guys to think about HOW Durant gets its power.

    Last time it was suspected, we left it in because it as too hard to get even one Hone Claws off, and Choice Banded was lackluster, as noted before.

    I want to know from you guys if you think it is harder, easier, or the same difficulty to set up a Hone Claws in the current tier.
     
  36. Scene

    Scene reverie

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    I'm still of the opinion that Durant is not broken, but it's certainly easier to set up a Hone Claws without Nidoqueen to take hits and Tornadus to outspeed. Dusclops kind of stops it, but it's rare and unreliable enough to not have much of an effect. For reasons mentioned above by me and others, I still think Durant's perfectly counterable and manageable in LU.
     
  37. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Well, Qwilfish left (big), Cresselia(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) was in the tier when Durant was tested, Tornadus + Nidoqueen + Meloetta leaving allows Balanced teams to thrive which give Durant a much easier time to set-up than the hyper offensive tier that they forced. The last one alone is really huge, at least its enough to make LU a much different metagame.



    One thing I don't think people are getting (especially with the CB set, but it also applies to the LO/Lum/Wide Lens set) is that Durant can and will switch out of a revenge killer (unless you use Scarf Magneton). It can simply come in again on a weak physical attack or after a faint or on a double switch or on a slow U-turn or on a random support move or whatever you use to get sweepers into play, and it'll put a huge dent in another Pokemon (assuming that it hits the right attack), then repeat until your Revenge killer is gone, or its destroyed your core enough for something else to sweep. My biggest problem is, aside from a very random scarf user (Scarf Entei), nothing can really stop Durant from getting at least one kill on any Balanced or Stall team, where the team members are much more important than an HO team.
     
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