1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

[Final] Carnivine

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU Analyses' started by Spoovo The Pirate, May 2, 2013.

  1. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

    Sep 29, 2012
    Likes Received:


    {{Tier|BW2 NU}}

    {{Overview|As a pokemon, Carnivine is possibly the most forgettable of them all. It's a weird, levitating Venus flytrap with affable base stats and a horrible movepool. Not a great start, is it?

    Of those base stats, its best is its Attack, which reaches a respectable 100, and can be boosted with Swords Dance. Its base 90 Special Attack isn't bad either, and 74/72/72 defenses aren't terrible. However, what is terrible is its base 46 Speed. Just barely outpacing Armaldo and other pokemon in the 'molasses' Speed range, like Torkoal and Camerupt, Carnivine really has its work cut out for it.

    However, Carnivine does have one slight use in its longevity. While it isn't bulky, it is the only Grass-type in the tier that isn't vulnerable to any entry hazards; something that is highly useful in a tier without reliable spinners. Being immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes comes in handy for Carnivine here, while a powerful STAB in Power Whip hits hard without any drawbacks (aside from its accuracy) and also deals more damage than Leafeon's Leaf Blade, giving Carnivine a small, but reliable niche as a unique stallbreaker in NU, as it is just fast enough to outrun the tier's standard walls, and just powerful enough to hurt them. It isn't much, but hey, it's something.

    If you're lucky enough, people may forget what Carnivine is, and let themselves be swept by it without knowing what it can do.}}

    {{Set|Venus Stalltrap|
    Carnivine @ Leftovers / Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Power Whip / Seed Bomb / Bullet Seed
    - Return / Synthesis
    - Sleep Powder / Substitute / Crunch}}

    {{Comments|Carnivine may be clutching at straws when it comes to competitive usefulness, but there's just enough here to carve out a decent set. At max Speed, it hits a reasonable 210, which outpaces 0 Speed Rotom-A and everything slower, as well as max Speed neutral base 55s (good luck finding one, though). You can go Adamant for more power if you prefer, however doing so means losing out to Misdreavus, but Carnivine still reaches a forgiveable 191, which outruns anything up to uninvested Garbodor and similar.

    Swords Dance is the staple on this set, as Carnivine needs it for its base 100 Attack to properly threaten. Power Whip is the main listed STAB in slot 2, as it hits pretty hard (as long as it actually DOES hit). If you need something more accurate, Seed Bomb is available, or you can give Bullet Seed a try for breaking Substitute users.

    Return's the primary coverage move in slot 3, as it hits basically everything in NU that resists Grass for neutral damage, as long as it isn't a Metang, Mawile, Haunter, Shedinja or Drifblim, not to mention packing some decent power as well. If Return doesn't do anything for you, it can be dropped for Synthesis, as oddities like Carnivine tend to confuse the opponent for long enough for them to give you a free turn or two along the way, allowing Carnivine to heal itself.

    In slot 4, Sleep Powder is the main listing, as it can incapacitate a potential threat (as long as it hits), while Substitute can let Carnivine avoid status and ease prediction, both of which are highly useful against Stall teams, and Crunch is simply another coverage option. It has the benefit of hitting Ghost- and Psychic-types - both of which are everywhere in NU - for good, reliable damage. Note that a STAB Power Whip will hit harder on average, but its inaccuracy means it can't always be relied on.

    The Leftovers are the recommended item, as it helps Carnivine last longer. As this is one of its main uses, capitalising it is generally a good idea. The Life Orb however gives Carnivine some much needed punch, and should never be overlooked. The Lum Berry can also be used to set up on a status move like Thunder Wave, but this isn't particularly recommended.}}

    {{Options|Bug Bite and Payback are literally the only other physical moves worth considering. It has a workable special movepool, consisting of Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Hidden Power and Wring Out, but none of these moves really separate Carnivine from the myriad of other NU Grass-types.

    Carnivine can support with Sunny Day and use SolarBeam, but probably shouldn't. Stun Spore, Leech Seed and Knock Off are some supporting options that haven't been mentioned. Gastro Acid can be used to get the upper hand on Bouffalant and other Sap Sipper users with Sleep Powder, but this is borderline gimmicky. There isn't really enough movepool for a choice set, but go nuts if you want to give it a try.}}

    {{Checks|Anything with Sap Sipper instantly shuts half of Carnivine's movepool down, including its main attack and means of beating its counters. If they have some bulk like Bouffalant, even better, while faster, frail ones like Zebstrika or even Girafarig can easily outrun. The former can then punish Carnivine with a powerful Overheat.

    Any Steel-types that aren't part Rock also stop Carnivine in its tracks, resisting literally every move it has access to. They need to worry about getting put to sleep, but otherwise will scare Carnivine off every time. Metang is probably the best available answer, thanks to its epic Eviolite bulk.

    Magmar is a full stop to Carnivine, having Vital Spirit to absorb Sleep Powder, a brutally powerful Fire Blast to fry it with, and enough speed to easily outrun. Electabuzz can also boast the same, except that it doesn't have any STAB moves to hit Carnivine hard with. Other pokemon with Sleep immune abilities like Noctowl, Vigoroth and Ariados are worth a mention here too, with the latter resisting Power Whip 4x, and having two STABs that hit Carnivine for super effective damage. Of these, Vigoroth is the only one with enough physical bulk and Speed to reliably take on a boosted Carnivine, however.

    U-turns can easily wear Carnivine down due to its lack of bulk, especially if they have STAB. Scyther is a great choice, with Eviolite boosting its bulk, and its typing resisting Power Whip effortlessly.

    If all else fails, anything with a base Speed above 87 will easily outrun Carnivine even without investment, and a powerful STAB will generally 2HKO the plant. If it's super effective, you can generally expect it to OHKO, while powerful neutral hits like Sawk's Close Combat will also achieve this with little trouble. Even Jolly Choice Scarf Sawk's Close Combat will deal a minimum of 88% to Carnivine, making it pretty much dead.}}

    Last edited: May 24, 2015
  2. The Real Elmo

    The Real Elmo Caterpie hungers...

    Sep 9, 2010
    Likes Received:

    So yeah, nothing more really can be said, at all.
    Lets get this uploaded and forget we were here.
  3. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

    Sep 29, 2012
    Likes Received:
    Lol, Elmo dislikes Carnivine huh?