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[BW2] Countering the New Threats! May and June

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU' started by East's Mascot, May 6, 2013.

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  1. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    I've wanted to try something like this, we post the list
    - Drapion
    - Gardevoir
    - Gorebyss
    - Houndoom
    - Huntail
    - Manectric
    - Primeape
    - Swellow
    And share counters to the new threats, both well known and perhaps unknown pokes/sets that are effective in the tier.
    I don't know if people will even post here, maybe you'll just ignore it, but I thought this could be fun :)
    I'll start,

    Hippopotas can wall: primeape, drapion, swellow
    Probopass can wall: Swellow, manectric, houndoom (to an extent)
    Alom walls: primape, drapion, swellow, some houndoom sets, huntail (lol huntail) and other physical threats
     
  2. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Realistically, Hippopotas and Probopass aren't used commonly. They lack a niche in the NU metamage.
    Even something like Gabite has the niche of setting up SR while still having great offensive potential, which these two lack (and still reasonable bulk with Eviolite.) Or, the now pretty popular Piloswine - which has excellent bulk, a good ability, stellar typing, and potential to be a wall or an attacker!
    I do agree with your Alomolola idea, though. However, Swellow can break through, some Houndoom can kill ot, SD Drapion can use it as fodder, and ape will 2HKO with band occasionally.
    Anyway, besides nitpicking your ideas, I have a few of my own (and feel free to nitpick them :p).

    I believe that an offensive FWG core can really prosper in this metagame.
    Something like Bulky SD Samurott (240 HP to live CB Close Combat, Volt Switch, and Specs Psychic in Torrent), Offensive SR Torterra, and Physically Based Mixed Trapping Houndoom does well.

    However, if you're looking for specifics to do well against these new threats, bulky RestTalk Eelektross seems like a pretty interesting idea. It is capable of beating Hutail / Gorebyss, and Swellow while walling Drapion and Manetric! Those are just some of the new Pokemon it beats, Eel is already pretty good in NU, IMO.

    To be honest, if a well put together stall team is made, I can see it being pretty decent. Although the majority of these new Pokemon are more beneficial to the offensive side of the spectrum, this really opens up NU to many more possibilities.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  3. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    Well, Hippo does have a niche in the fact that it gets rocks + whirlwind and it has slack off for a reliable recovery :D probo is kinda eh, I'm running it alongside alom who I can pass a wish from and bring probo back up to a reasonable amount.
    Although, probo does get magic bounce and volt switch for some gimmicks which are sometimes quite effective, bouncing sleep powders, spikes, etc
    FWG is always a fun time :D I think houndoom will be pretty helpful because before, the only competitively used fire type was really just Emboar, zard has that -50% hp on rocks which really hurts its viability and torkoal is just...torkoal...


    I haven't thought about a bulky eelek yet, seems like a good idea, gonna give it a try later, thanks for your opinions :D
     
  4. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    Specially defensive Gardevoir with Wish/Protect/W-o-W/Psychic has been working out very well for me. Trace allows it to switch in on Manectric that for some reason always predict Seismitoad and uses HP Grass. It also completely trolls Skuntank users. Just make sure you have enough EV's to outspeed the standard set. Houndoom is a pain however. Scarfed Manectric takes it out safely though, even if I have to sac something.

    I've also been using a combination of Rain Dance Seismitoad and Gorebyss. Toed can usually wreck a pokemon or two, or at least weaken the opponents wall. Gorebyss can use the remaining Rain turns to clean up.
     
  5. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    The thing is that now nobody is really using Skuntank as Houndoom totally outclasses it as an offensive trapper.
    And as you know, that Gardevoir is 100% dead to Houndoom. Also, it doesn't really love Swellow, Drapion, and a few others.
    Good set but.. Going to disagree with you saying it's good in the current metagame.
    Even with W-O-W, Mismagius is still probably better and it can hit (does a ton with HP fighting) new dog.

    Edit: Yeah,
    Houndoom is pretty centralizing!!!
     
  6. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    If poliwrath hadn't had left us, I'm sure houndoom wouldn't have been as big a threat, being countered by lickilicky, emboar, and poliwrath pretty much to oblivion
     
  7. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    At this point I'd honestly have to say it's more of the fact that NU's going to become a lot more of a fast paced metagame that people really need time to adjust to, to be honest. It's kind of like LU and NU switched in the kind of tiers they are; stall is actually very strong instead of just good with Nido gone in LU, while with the newest drops stall in NU kind of got shot in the foot a fair few times. This is definitely not just because of Houndoom.

    Plus, NU's so used to being dominated by the stronger psychic types as well, what with 3 of them being in the top 11(poor eggy). You can't really just have a Musharna and win due to match ups as easily anymore, Mesprit is actually a lot weaker with it around, etc.

    Plus Houndoom's frail. As in Simisear-like frailty. It really struggles to set up on much and although its trapper set is very good for NU, it's no where near, say, Nido's offensive set in LU. It'll discourage the use of the psychics and ghosts, but even then Haunter has a very good chance of OHKOing with Sludge Bomb after rocks. It's very good, but not this godly destroyer of worlds everyone keeps hyping it up to be.
     
  8. MetalGross

    MetalGross gems…

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    Specially Defensive Hariyama is great in the meta at the moment, making Houndoom cry. He is also pretty good against Manectric. Something like Rest/Sleep Talk/Whirlwind/Force Palm should work.
    Another thing I tried out was Specially Defensive Rhydon. Although it gets destroyed by HP Grass from Manectric/Houndoom, they have to predict the switch in and most Manectrics are choiced which makes it harder for them to predict. He is also a full stop to Physical Trapper Houndoom. But the best part is that Rhydon can actually take a HP Grass if he needs to. While this is not perfect, it proves that Rhydon can take Houndoom, even though he takes a ton of damage. Swellow and Drapion can only dream of touching Rhydon.

    Houndoom is pretty strong indeed, but I agree with Pnerd that it is not godly. It has its flaws.
     
  9. Roku

    Roku sup nerds

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    Camerupt 100% counters Manectric unless it is running HP water specifically for it, which would be awful
     
  10. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    I think houndoom/drapion dropping was kind of a blessing, previously, all we really had was skunktank and......sneasel.......... for those pesky psychics, and for our fire types? don't get me started. Drapion to clean up those toxic spikes as well, I think that it helped with these drops, houndoom also fully defeats missy with his flash fire and dark typing which is always a plus since all of our spinners are pretty bad
     
  11. Megalomaniac

    Megalomaniac New Member

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    I would like to say that eviolite Munchlax Zweillous and Combusken counter Houndoom (not that anyone uses them)
    Tank Carracosta is decent against Drapion, Swellow and Primeape (if you have protect) Pairing it with Haunter gives it amazing synergy
    Musharna is actually still good but needs baton pass to prevent pursuit trapping
    Hariyama is doing better then ever
    Stunfisk is a decent counter to Manectric and can switch into a u-turn and get lucky with a static para



    will update this post tommorow with counters/checks/calcs
     
  12. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    Houndoom is pretty powerful, even some special tanks get 2HKOed pretty easily, it has a life orbed suckerpunch to some weakened scarfers like manectric and its coverage is perfect with its stab.
    Drapion is fine, not much of a threat, sd can take out a mon and a half i suppose.
    Gorebyss and huntail are nice pokemon, personally i never have trouble with them but my team is geared pretty well against them.

    Life orbed Manectrics and Primapes are a threat though, even with the likes of vileplume on your team since they both have a solution for it. Swellow is a pretty good hard hitter, played conservatively with some good spin support it does a big number on teams, anything short of an all out wall or rock or steel type. It can get past kangaskahn's suckerpunch with quick attack and i tend to have to fodder at least one thing per match to it.
    Gardevoir is great, i havent used it personally because it doesnt quite fit how i play but it's very powerfull with a life orb or specs which causes trouble for anything outside of skuntank and drapion. A calm minder is also a big problem but switching into it in general is hard unless its a defensive set.

    Things i find good are bulky heal bell ampharos, even without much investment in special attack it hits hard, hp grass, focus blast are nice for coverage, thunderbolt is a hard hitting stab. It's bulk it surprising and it can stay alive throughout the match, leftovers adds so much to it's life since it tanks hits like a pro. Its an amazing counter to klinklang, especially with static's 51% chance to kick in on gear grind and taking three boosted gear grinds.

    Lapras is also nice, its extremely bulky, invest some in defense and it takes two guts facades from swellow, it tanks special hits like a champ and even closecombats from sawk and primape. Water absorb is a blessing against wartortle, alomomola, siesmitoad and samurot. It has a great dualstab combination of ice beam and surf which have a high base power, thunderbolt also has that ninety five base power and hits the water types which resists its dual stab, heal bell is great for toxic from alomomola and wartortle and in general helping the team. My only complaint from defensive sets is that it doesnt hit too hard in some cases.
     
  13. topah

    topah Active Member

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    I like using thunder wave + hp ground psychics to combat all these new dark types as it hits all the new ones hard and gets great coverage.
    Mantine is also great against gorebyss needs moar usage.
     
  14. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    NU changed drastically for these past few days. Bulky Offense / Balance teams that were very effective before the drops are now struggling against Offensively-inclined teams that are very common in the tier. The new drops are all very offensively-inclined pokemon so stall teams are almost ineffective and unpopular. In my opinion, Fighting/Dark/Psychic cores are still very effective in the tier with the addition of new faces like Houndoom, Gardevoir and Drapion. I like how Houndoom counters Gardevoir, Gardevoir checks Primeape but fears U-turn and Punishment of course, and Primeape counters Houndoom.

    Ground types are really effective in the current meta as they can stop new threats like Manetric, Drapion and Houndoom. Piloswine, Rhydon, Seismitoad, Torterra and Camerupt are all very effective in the current NU tier. All of them stops Manetric from using its STAB Thunderbolt/Volt Switch and force it to use Hidden Power Grass/Ice which rarely KOs because of its low base power. Personally, I've been using Torterra and Piloswine a lot nowadays. Torterra and Piloswine has the ability to set up SR and remove opposing Ground types for my electric type to Volt Switch easily and do its revenge killing job easier. Torterra also has a chance to regain health with the use of Synthesis so it doesn't die very easily like Golem. Piloswine on the other hand has priority Ice Shard which can score a lot of KOs to fast but frail attackers. Apart from Piloswine and Torterra, Seismitoad can effectively check a most of the new threats namely Drapion, Houndoom, Gorebyss, Huntail and Manetric. Houndoom, Gorebyss and Manetric will be forced to use Hidden Power Grass as a coverage move so they can remove Seismitoad easily.

    Another pokemon that is very effective in the current NU tier is Mantine. Like what Topah said, it can take on Gorebyss, as well as Huntail and Houndoom. It is also a good Manetric lure for your own Manectric or Trace Gardevoir to get a +1 boost via Lightingrod. Gurdurr should also see more action in the tier as it can take on Houndoom, Drapion and Primeape at full HP. After a single Bulk Up boost, Physical attackers will have a hard time taking down Gurdurr as it can spam Mach Punches on your team and regain some health with Drain Punch. Hariyama can also take on Houndoom, Drapion adn Primeape like Gurdurr but it is a bit frailer compared to Gurdurr who can abuse Eviolite to raise its Defenses. Swords Dance Samurott wrecks most of the new threats. After a single SD boost Samurott can start spamming Aqua Jets and kill the likes of Houndoom, Manetric and Primeape. Klinklang is very useful on the current meta as its steel typing provides a lot of resistances especially from the very common Psychic and Dark type attacks and Guts-boosted Swellows.

    Also, Klinklang is #5 the last time I checked the Usage Statistics so Hoooray! :D
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  15. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    This kinda died so..

    For manectric- I've been toying around with some pokes, Stunfisk, Gabite, and Roselia in particular, and they do a decent job at stopping it. There are the regular stops like Licki and Regice as well just shutting it down.
     
  16. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    reviveeee

    Personally, I find Camerupt as the best counter for Manetric its immune from STAB, resists Overheat/Flamethrower, takes neutral from Hidden Power Grass/Ice. And Camerupt can hit back with an Earth Power/Earthquake. (My Manetric got countered by Camerupt a lot of times, ugh I hate it. lol)
     
  17. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    (Hidden Power Water, GG.)

    Lol, on a realistic note, Manetric is not that powerful. Or at least not strong enough to break through your average defensive core. Even SDef Alomomola isn't taking over 60% from it's scarf set (specs being a whole other story - and the lure/Ebelt set.)
    Your normal special walls are the best answers - Regice, Lickylicky, Audino, Roselia (can take an Overheat), etc.
    Camerupt is going a bit out of the way, but I suppose it fits the bill.
     
  18. TheUserFormerlyKnownAsFPT

    TheUserFormerlyKnownAsFPT Woof

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    Specially defensive Trace Gardevoir is another nice option. It can comfortably take an Overheat and gets a Lightningrod boost from Volt Switch.
     
  19. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    July/August

    Well, manecthreat has left, so let's discuss the new threats

    -Loco ludicolo
    -Gastrodon

    To start it up

    ...ludicolo, a specially defensive ludicolo is incredible, it counters special samu, gastro, rain dance ludicolo, etc
     
  20. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    You might wanna start a new thread for this, but upto you.

    Offensive Ludicolo only has around 3 counters, Tentacool, Mantine + Sp Def Ludicolo. Pokemon with good special defense like Regice + Lickylicky are decent checks, but are both likely to be 2hko'd after rocks, so really nothing can switch into ludiclo without being 2hko'd.

    Sp def Ludi with sub seed is nice, but i feel more people will just be spamming the offensive one on rain teams alongside Gorebyss.

    Gastrodon is dealt with by special walls and grass types, though more offensively invested ones need to be wary of specs ice beam.
     
  21. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    I think we should just keep one thread to avoid spam

    Offensive ludicolo is just super strong in the rain, idk why no one in LU used it, it is WRECKING in nu from what I've seen
     
  22. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Abomasnw, Regice, Lickylicky, and a few others specially bulky pokemon can defeat Ludicolo. It's not broken, in my opinion. Read my post in suspect thread for this month and next for more specifics.
     
  23. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Locking as this thread is dead and was mainly meant for the previous additions to the NU tier.
     
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