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[WIP] Gen 5 1v1 Ubers Lugia

Discussion in 'Gen 5 1v1 Analyses' started by Disaster Area, May 28, 2013.

  1. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Disaster Area
    This is my current Lugia set I use in 1v1 ubers. It's not perfect, and it doesn't use multiscale, so there's definitely room for more, also significant sets to be added.

    ==General==
    When you think wall, you think Lugia. It has very solid 106/130/154 defences and 110 base speed, allowing it to be a versatile defensive Pokémon. Not all is super-sweet though, as it is slower than a couple of major threats (Darkrai/scarfed Kyogre), which limits its capabilities. Giratina may also have more advantageous defensive stats, and a different typing, as well as serious offensive capabilities where Lugia is perhaps lacklustre. However, Lugia is certainly not a Pokémon to forget, setting a standard for all bulky and defensive Pokémon, and having 2 interesting abilities in Pressure and Multiscale.

    ==Sets==

    ==PP-stall==
    {{set
    | name = PP-stall
    | pkmn= Lugia
    | item = Leftovers
    | ability = Pressure
    | nature = Timid
    | ev = 4 Def / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
    | move1 = Protect
    | move2 = Substitute
    | move3 = Roost
    | move31 = Recover
    | move4 = Water Pulse
    | move41 = Extrasensory
    | move42 = Ice Beam
    | gen = 5
    }}

    This set is an interesting addition to the metagame, primarily designed to stall PP. All of the EVs are piled into Speed and Sp. Attack, so as to allow it to fire off substitute as soon as possible (it is outsped by a few key Pokémon, such as Prankster Sableye using priority, and Darkrai), and the behind the substitute, if not broken in one hit (demanding a switching between substitute and protect each turn to maximally stall PP. before using roost or recover to return to manageable levels of HP), firing off its attack in the final slot. I have 3 suggestions listed, all bolstered with the 252 Sp. Atk upon its base of 90, allowing it to hit Pokémon that can't easily break its substitute. Unfortunately it lacks Night Shade and seismic toss to allow it to deal consistent damage and allow the EVs to be put into HP, so the 3 moves are suggested for these reasons: Water Pulse - Quite high PP, reasonable chance for confusion; Extrasensory - Higher base power than Water Pulse, STAB, Very high PP [though Gust, an alternative, has higher PP], may cause a flinch, though dark types are immune; Ice Beam - Low-ish PP, Quite high base power, accurate, chance of freezing; Aeroblast, Blizzard, Thunder, Thunderbolt etc. are all equally acceptable alternatives. If you don't mind being taunt-bait [there are the odd taunt users in 1v1 ubers] you could have Sleep Talk, to combat Darkrai slightly, Calm Mind to boost Sp. Def., Thunder Wave, Swagger, Featherdance [that might be interesting], Toxic, or any other of its moves. The choice between roost and recover is weird, and usually you want roost, since that means that moves like ice beam are weaker against you just after use.
    0 attack IVs could be used too to weaken foul play from the likes of Sableye, maybe Umbreon, Liepard, or goodness know what.

    ==Other Options==

    Multiscale - someone please add a multiscale set.

    ==Checks and Counters==

    Darkrai, almost without exception. Choice Scarf Kyogre. Various Giratina sets probably can. Cloyster abusing shell smash and skill link is likely to be an effective counter as well, since it can break the substitute and continue to attack. Certain choices of offensive move on Lugia may be able to counter this however.
     
  2. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Umm... my knowledge of 1 vs 1 is pretty limited, but Water Pulse and Extrasensory do not seem like good moves for a Lugia, and neither do the Special Attack EVs. It's a wall, so build it like a wall. I can understand the Speed investment though; to get that Sub up ASAP. However, if you're gonna stall, you want something that'll help stall, like Toxic.

    It doesn't matter how much PP your moves have, because it's only a 1 vs 1. HP is the thing you need to stall, imo.

    I'll see what more knowledgeable people think, though.
     
  3. Scene

    Scene reverie

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    As a former #1 with 1550+, this set really isn't good. It doesn't deal with Arceus or SpecsOgre. The most viable Lugia set I've found is a Toxic-Stalling Multiscale variant with max defense. Any attacking Lugia becomes horribly outclassed by countless pokemon, and PP stall really isn't the way to go in a fast meta like 1v1 Ubers.
     
  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    I know the choice of the final moveslot is quite difficult.. initially I had Ancientpower... the main point is that without an offensive move in the final slot it becomes taunt-bait, whereas having e.g. Ancientpower it stands a chance at defeating threats with multi-hit moves. Taunt is used in 1v1, and it's not uncommon to see prankster users in 1v1 ubers.

    Here's a save log of Lugia defeating Specs Kyogre:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Battle between [Masters]Slayer and Piexplode started!

    Tier: Gen 5 1v1 Ubers
    Mode: Singles
    Rule: Rated
    Rule: Sleep Clause
    Rule: Species Clause
    Variation: +22, -10

    [Masters]Slayer sent out Kyogre!
    Piexplode sent out Lugia!
    Lugia is exerting its Pressure!
    the foe's Kyogre's Drizzle made it rain!

    Start of turn 1
    Lugia used Protect!
    Lugia protected itself!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia protected itself!

    Rain continues to fall.

    Start of turn 2
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 3
    Lugia used Protect!
    Lugia protected itself!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia protected itself!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 4
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 5
    Lugia used Protect!
    Lugia protected itself!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia protected itself!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 6
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 7
    Lugia used Protect!
    Lugia protected itself!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia protected itself!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 8
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 9
    Lugia used Protect!
    Lugia protected itself!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia protected itself!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 10
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 11
    Lugia used Protect!
    Lugia protected itself!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia protected itself!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 12
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Kyogre used Surf!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 13
    Lugia used Protect!
    Lugia protected itself!

    The foe's Kyogre used Struggle!
    Lugia protected itself!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 14
    Lugia used Roost!
    Lugia landed on the ground!
    Lugia regained health!

    The foe's Kyogre used Struggle!
    Lugia lost 28 HP! (7% of its health)
    The foe's Kyogre is damaged by recoil!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 15
    Lugia used AncientPower!
    The foe's Kyogre lost 11% of its health!

    The foe's Kyogre used Struggle!
    Lugia lost 26 HP! (7% of its health)
    The foe's Kyogre is damaged by recoil!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 16
    Lugia used AncientPower!
    The foe's Kyogre lost 10% of its health!

    The foe's Kyogre used Struggle!
    Lugia lost 30 HP! (8% of its health)
    The foe's Kyogre is damaged by recoil!

    Rain continues to fall.
    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 17
    Lugia used AncientPower!
    The foe's Kyogre lost 4% of its health!
    The foe's Kyogre fainted!

    Piexplode won the battle!
    Piexplode: Good game

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So there's proof PP-stall can beat specs-ogre.
    I can appreciate my EV settings are a bit queer; max HP instead of Max Sp. Atk could be used but I don't think the benefit is huge; the point isn't to be able to tank a hit behind a substitute, much as that's useful, but to stall an offensive Pokémon out of most of its viable moves to hit Lugia hard. With max Sp. Atk it gives it a chance to deal better with threats that use taunt or multi-hit attacks. On second thought however, there are some threats which may out-speed it who may hit it very hard, and more HP EV's to reduce the damage the opposing Pokémon inflicts to below 75% damage, but there's few Pokémon that can do that unboosted.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2013
  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Disaster Area
    Here's a save log I've found of Lugia vs. Arceus.. I'm not sure what sort of Arceus set you expect me to show you playing Lugia, and I will say at least 1 Arceus set has beaten Lugia [I haven't got a save-log, but the Arceus used sword dance, and then used shadow force to break my substitute, whilst being slower than me, allowing it to then use a normal gem boosted stab extremespeed to KO Lugia].

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Battle between fitzyhbbe and Piexplode started!

    Tier: Gen 5 1v1 Ubers
    Mode: Singles
    Rule: Unrated
    Rule: Sleep Clause
    Rule: Species Clause
    Rule: Self-KO Clause

    fitzyhbbe sent out Arceus!
    Piexplode sent out Lugia!
    Lugia is exerting its Pressure!
    Youngster Raz is watching the battle.
    Akari_Ubers is watching the battle.

    Start of turn 1
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Arceus vanished instantly!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 2
    Lugia used Roost!
    Lugia landed on the ground!
    Lugia regained health!

    The foe's Arceus used Shadow Force!
    It's super effective!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Start of turn 3
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Arceus vanished instantly!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 4
    Lugia used Roost!
    Lugia landed on the ground!
    Lugia regained health!

    The foe's Arceus used Shadow Force!
    It's super effective!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Start of turn 5
    Lugia used Protect!
    Lugia protected itself!

    The foe's Arceus vanished instantly!

    Start of turn 6
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Arceus used Shadow Force!
    It's super effective!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 7
    Lugia used Protect!
    Lugia protected itself!

    The foe's Arceus vanished instantly!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 8
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Arceus used Shadow Force!
    It's super effective!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 9
    Lugia used AncientPower!
    The foe's Arceus lost 11% of its health!

    The foe's Arceus vanished instantly!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 10
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Arceus used Shadow Force!
    It's super effective!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 11
    Lugia used AncientPower!
    The foe's Arceus lost 10% of its health!

    The foe's Arceus vanished instantly!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 12
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Arceus used Shadow Force!
    It's super effective!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 13
    Lugia used Roost!
    Lugia landed on the ground!
    Lugia regained health!

    The foe's Arceus vanished instantly!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 14
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Arceus used Shadow Force!
    It's super effective!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 15
    Lugia used AncientPower!
    The foe's Arceus lost 10% of its health!

    The foe's Arceus vanished instantly!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 16
    Lugia used Substitute!
    Lugia made a substitute!

    The foe's Arceus used Shadow Force!
    It's super effective!
    Lugia's substitute faded!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 17
    Lugia used AncientPower!
    The foe's Arceus lost 11% of its health!

    The foe's Arceus used Struggle!
    Lugia lost 69 HP! (19% of its health)
    The foe's Arceus is damaged by recoil!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 18
    Lugia used Roost!
    Lugia landed on the ground!
    Lugia regained health!

    The foe's Arceus used Struggle!
    Lugia lost 77 HP! (21% of its health)
    The foe's Arceus is damaged by recoil!

    Lugia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 19
    Lugia used AncientPower!
    The foe's Arceus lost 7% of its health!
    The foe's Arceus fainted!

    Piexplode won the battle!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2013
  6. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    Dr. Fuji
    I agree with both Scizor and Spoovo that set isn't really good and that Lugia's best set is also Multiscale with Toxic.
     
  7. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    After battling in a tourney against 2 Deoxys-a's, and reflecting on some battles with scarfed Kyogres, I think the EVs should go into HP. I've been running this set for ages, and a similar one on Deoxys-D for at least a month, and I can report that in most cases the sets prove quite successful; my rankings in both standard and ubers 1v1 is top 20, my best being #3 in 1v1 ubers.. Also, with multiscale + toxic, how would it beat Jirachi (an occasional but notable threat that is beaten fairly easily with Lugia, as well as specs and scarf Kyogre)?
    I urge you all not to instantly discount it just because it's a strategy that most of you seem to find outclassed.
     
  8. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Seriously, pressure-stall beats almost everything in the tier barring Darkrai and taunt users. Someone want to work with me on making a multiscale set too? It could also run rest-talk I think.
     
  9. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    The set isn't terrible in theory its just the ev's and attacking moves you chose for it that could use some work maximal Special Attack investment makes no sense on a stalling set and your choice of attacking moves are pretty bad something like this perhaps

    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale/Pressure
    EVs: 232 HP / 24 SAtk / 252 Spd or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Earth Power/Substitute
    - Aeroblast/Protect

    Earthpower hits 252 HP Dialga for a 3HKO which cannot be Toxic'd while Aeroblast is a solid STAB move that gets good coverage in any rate you're probably not going to be attacking often the point of the set is to Toxic them then stall with Multiscale + Recover or Sub/Protect and Pressure.
     
  10. Sakuya Izayoi

    Sakuya Izayoi love to hate

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    You might also want to try out a lugia set that I have battled with and it has intrigued me a bit.

    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Aeroblast
    - Hidden Power [Fighting] / Substitute
    - Roost

    Because of Lugia's good bulk, and coupled with mulitscale, Lugia can almost always get off a CM unless the opponent happens to run Darkrai. Aeroblast has amazing coverage in Ubers, none of which are actually immune to it. Roost to restore health back to full, potentially getting back to multiscale range, and hp fighting is for coverage. Subsititute can be very helpful to dodge status, but really, who will use status moves in 1v1? I know the Evs are fucked up so someone can re-write this set x_x

    I thought this set would be worth a mention, mainly because it does not rely on pp stalling the opponent to oblivion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  11. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    It's an interesting set DracoNinja... should be included as the final set on the page. I know the EVs were wrong on the set I put up before with pressure-stalling; the EVs should definitely be in HP not Sp. Atk.
    Mewthree that set should probably just be multiscale as it plays differently to the PP-stall set, but it's certainly respectable. I thing together we have 3 decent Lugia sets. I'll write up later something for it to be added to the wiki as, if I have the time.