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[Final] Gen 5 1v1 Ubers Umbreon

Discussion in 'Gen 5 1v1 Analyses' started by Youngster Raz, May 30, 2013.

  1. Youngster Raz

    Youngster Raz Member

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    ==General==
    One might ask: "Umbreon? What? How is this thing going to win anything in 1v1 ubers? It doesn't have Counter, it's not fast, it doesn't hit hard, Swagger Foul play is done better by Sableye or Liepard.". After some creative thinking with Firer, I came up with this set. So let us see if this herald of darkness can live up to the gods of uber.

    ==Godslayer Umbreon==
    Umbreon @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Inner Focus
    Nature : Bold (+ Def - Atk)
    EV's : 252 HP/252 Def/4 sp. Def
    -Foul Play
    -Swagger
    -Yawn
    -Protect

    You hate spore Breloom? You hate swagger Sableye? Let's mash that together into one Pokemon! Few things in general uber 1v1 can OHKO this thing, and if they can't, say goodnight.
    Yawn on the first turn. If the opposition doesn't carry a lum berry, umbreon can either protect, or use swagger if it can survive another hit. Then it's just foul play spam until they drop. Even if the enemy wakes up, he only has a 50/50 chance of landing his attack.
    Enemies that do carry Lum berries need to be swaggered on the second turn to remove the berry.
    Brick break from banded Arceus-normal only has about 3% chance of 2KOing it, being 2KOed in return by +2 foul play. Lum Berry Arceus gets thwarted by a second turn Swagger, which destroys the lum berry, making Arceus a sitting duck once more, while Umbreon laughs off the +2 Brick Break.
    Not even Deoxys-A Superpower or Focus blast can OHKO, and they all carry sashes, so those are easy kills after yawn-protect.
    The Lum berry makes it able to put Darkrai to sleep if it doesn't carry a lum berry itself. Darkrai becomes a 3KO after one swagger, which means umbreon is somewhat dependant on confusion against it.
    Inner focus destroys the occasional Jirachi and the unsuspecting Shaymin-S.


    ==Other Options==
    - A mail item to prevent trick
    - Chople Berry or Focus Sash kill blaziken if it uses Swords Dance
    - Mental Herb against Taunt-users
    - Taunt over protect
    - Speed investment gives an advantage over similar Umbreon


    ==Checks and Counters==
    - Opponents that cannot be put to sleep (Like flame orb Conkeldurr)
    - STAB fighting moves, like from Blaziken (If it doesn't carry Chople Berry)
    - Kyurem-B that gets a 3 turn outrage
    - Generally strong special attackers
    - Stall Lugia, Giratina and Whimsicott (if Umbreon doesn't carry taunt)
    - Sableye, Liepard (Can be beaten by taunt and if the opponent carries taunt, mental herb)
    - Trick
    - Taunt
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Magic Coat

    ==Additional Information==
    This set can also work in normal 1v1. Umbreon has a chance of surviving +2 ice gem icicle spear from maximum attack Cloyster if it doesn't choose to protect against it, definitely surviving the non-gem variant. With a Lum berry it has a good chance of beating Breloom. Jirachi is no issue due to inner focus. It can even take a fire gem max attack V-Create from Victini, and if Victini doesn't carry a gem, it has a 25% chance of taking a second one. As Scarf-Trick sets are more common in regular 1v1, exchanging the Berry for mail might not be a bad idea as well.

    ==Shoutouts==
    I would like to thank Pain34736, Piexplode and Firer for helping me to come up with and test this set.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Sounds pretty decent, and I'll agree it's impressively strong against a good variety of opponents. Some save logged battles on this thread to prove that (some people might be a little disbelieving, for example against these Arceus variants) it can take on those sorts of threats, e.g. from that tourney, would be useful to see.
     
  3. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    Not really a fan of Swagger on this as you have no way to guarantee you won't be hit basically leaving it a coin toss it's also quite a slow set requiring some setup you're more then likely to get hit before using Yawn considering how slow Umbreon is after which you need to hope you'll KO before your opponent wakes up or you risk being hit with a boosted attack where as Sableye has priority Substitute and Will-o-Wisp to protect it. The set isn't bad it just requires some more luck then I like to work well.
     
  4. Youngster Raz

    Youngster Raz Member

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    The swagger is necessary, otherwise it can't deal enough damage, anyway.

    What exactly does speed change when using yawn?

    This set exists because I wanted it to not be just a coin toss. I reached a 1v1 uber quarterfinals before, just by spamming swagger, which is just plain stupid. I wanted something reliable, and it hasn't failed me yet, apart from some criticals.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    The save logs should show that huge amounts of hax are NOT needed for it to be victorious.
     
  6. Youngster Raz

    Youngster Raz Member

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    In case of the banded arceus, that would be a 90% chance to hit swagger on turn 2, and a 2/3 chance that it stays asleep for 2 turns. On top of that, a 50% chance that it doesn't get its turn even if it does wake up. That adds up to 80% chance of beating it (Correct me if I'm wrong, I suck at probability), ignoring his chance to crit me, or mine to crit him.

    The swordsdance arceus falls after 1 turn of sleeping, making that about 85%, counting the critical chance this time.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  7. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Well, with lum berry Arceus, the chance of your two moves hitting consecutively is 90%, whilst the chance of a critical hit from Arceus, which would OHKO, is 6.25%. So the chance they sleep successfully is 93.75 x 0.9, which is 84.375%. Then, there is a 1 in 3 chance that it wakes up after 1 turn, half that because of confusion, so 1 in 6 chance that you then don't win. so 5/6 x 84.375% = 70.3% (to 3 s.f.) that the strategy is successful (ignoring the chance of a foul play critical hit). There's a 6.25% chance of getting a critical hit on the first strike, so the actual probability is 6.25 x 0.84375 + 93.75 x 0.703125 = 71.2% to 3 significant figures that the strategy is successful. That seems to me to be pretty good odds to win, assuming they do the correct combination of moves anyway.. With choice band, there's a 12.1% chance Arceus crit hits you at least once, and a 10% chance you miss with swagger... I can't be bothered to work out exactly, but you have a similarly good chance of success.
     
  8. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I... actually like this set. Swagger's rarely gonna make a difference, as the intention is to simply boost Foul Play's attack rather than rely on the confusion, and also to remove the Lum Berry so that Yawn can work. It's not nearly as cheap as Liepard, let's face it. xD

    Once (if) the opponent wakes up, then there's some potential confusion hax, and the coin flipping comes into play, but I see the target dying before they wake up, more often than not (unless they resist Dark, of course).
     
  9. Youngster Raz

    Youngster Raz Member

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    With good sleep rolls, this thing can even beat its counters, if they don't carry lum berries. I beat 2 of 3 brelooms in a 1v1 tourney just now (I think people know I'm using this thing...), without lum berry (The first didn't even try to spore me) because I like mail in normal 1v1. All these fighting types are solid 2KOs after 1 swagger.
     
  10. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    I've also gotta say it can really tank a hit, even a max attack fire gem Victini v-create, or choice band brick break Arceus.. considering also that it doesn't play in a way completely surviving on hax (I hope my calculations of some of the probabilities earlier show how it's a fairly reliable strategy). I'd say it should be added to the wiki.
     
  11. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    Make a mention that this can work in regular 1v1 as well otherwise I approve this set if you want to get it written up and uploaded to the wiki.
     
  12. Youngster Raz

    Youngster Raz Member

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    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  13. Youngster Raz

    Youngster Raz Member

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    I just noticed something... I can directly Foul Play Arceus-normal. If it's choice band, I survive another hit. If it's Swords Dance, it just dies on the second turn. If it tricks me a Choice Band, I win. Only if it's a special Arceus-normal, that's disadvantagous.

    Needs a bit of testing on the Choice Band one, though. It might not be a 2KO if one Foul Play hits before Swagger.

    I feel like an idiot for not noticing this sooner...

    Edit: Ok, verified it. Choice Band Arceus DOES die from one unboosted and one +2 Foul Play.
    If Blaziken uses Swords Dance against Chople Berry Umbreon, it has about as much chance of winning as the Choice Band Arceus. If it doesn't, it comes down to Protect, I'd say.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  14. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    I made a couple minor edits but it looks good. I made mention that a Calm Nature can be used in OO which would help against things such as Kyogre with a Calm Nature neither Choice Specs boosted Surf nor Choice Scarf boosted Water Spout can 1HKO you allowing Umbreon to put it to sleep. I also changed Will-o-Wisp in checks to Toxic as Will-o-Wisp does not lower the damage of Foul Play Toxic would be more dangerous.
     
  15. Youngster Raz

    Youngster Raz Member

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    Actually, the burn on Umbreon does half damage of Foul Play, just like a Choice Band on the opponent does NOT increase Foul Play damage, which is why Umbreon 2KOs a non-boosted Arceus when it tricks Umbreon a Choice Band.


    Here, Umbreon gets burned
    Start of turn 1
    Fortune used Foul Play!
    The foe's Flareon lost 48% of its health!

    The foe's Flareon used Will-O-Wisp!
    Fortune was burned!

    Fortune was hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 2
    Fortune used Foul Play!
    The foe's Flareon lost 21% of its health!

    The foe's Flareon used Will-O-Wisp!
    Fortune is already burnt.

    Fortune was hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 3
    Fortune used Foul Play!
    The foe's Flareon lost 22% of its health!

    The foe's Flareon used Will-O-Wisp!
    Fortune is already burnt.

    Fortune was hurt by its burn![/HIDE]

    Here, the opponent gets burned
    Start of turn 1
    Fortune used Foul Play!
    The foe's Vaporeon lost 30% of its health!

    The foe's Vaporeon used Aqua Ring!
    The foe's Vaporeon surrounded itself with a veil of water!

    Aqua ring restored the foe's Vaporeon's HP.
    The foe's Vaporeon's Flame Orb activated!
    The foe's Vaporeon was burned!

    Start of turn 2
    The foe's Vaporeon used Aqua Ring!
    But it failed!

    Fortune used Foul Play!
    The foe's Vaporeon lost 29% of its health!

    Aqua ring restored the foe's Vaporeon's HP.
    The foe's Vaporeon was hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 3
    The foe's Vaporeon used Aqua Ring!
    But it failed!

    Fortune used Foul Play!
    The foe's Vaporeon lost 32% of its health!

    Aqua ring restored the foe's Vaporeon's HP.
    The foe's Vaporeon was hurt by its burn![/HIDE]

    And one with the Trick Choice Band
    Start of turn 1
    Fortune used Foul Play!
    The foe's Jirachi lost 28% of its health!

    The foe's Jirachi used Trick!
    The foe's Jirachi switched items with Fortune!
    The foe's Jirachi obtained one Iron Plate!
    Fortune obtained one Choice Band!

    Start of turn 2
    Fortune used Foul Play!
    The foe's Jirachi lost 43% of its health!

    The foe's Jirachi used Wish![/HIDE]

    But you're right, too. Toxicstall from the right Pokemon hurts it a lot.

    By the way, I listed them as checks because of the Lum Berry, if you're wondering. It really only comes into play if the opposition lives long enough to make it work, which is usually after one sleep cycle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  16. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji Active Member

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    Taught me something new Foul Play has quite odd mechanics I completely admit I was wrong and will fix the change I made.

    edit: I see you've already done it :D
     
  17. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Note: On the part at the top with Umbreon's information where it links to its 5t Gen UU and 2nd Gen OU analyses, it hasn't got a link to its Gen 5 1v1 Ubers analysis. Can someone add that?
     
  18. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Tell me you're not asking for a link to the Gen 5 1v1 Ubers analysis while you're reading the Gen 5 1v1 Ubers analysis? Please do?

    EDIT: Turns out the link itself actually isn't available in that little box. Hmm...
     
  19. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    Yea, with the current phead tiers need to be added by hand (and 5th Gen 1v1 Ubers was not added), which rebuilds most big pages on the wiki and slows it for a while. The new model of phead me and fuzzy worked on adds new tiers automatically by drawing info from subpages, we'll switch to that when I've done some final looking over, which may be this evening or tomorrow since I finally got my computer back and it's actually working (did lose all my programs, but hey, can reinstall). Once we switch over this will be fixed along with a few other things that have been bugging me for a long time.
     
  20. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    OK glad to know that's being sorted... didn't know quite how to say the problem clearly.
     
  21. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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  22. Youngster Raz

    Youngster Raz Member

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    And Umbreon made it to #1 on the 1v1 ubers ladder today!