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[Final] Honchkrow Analysis

Discussion in 'Gen 5 UU Analyses' started by NidoTheKing, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    430Honchkrow.jpg
    Kacaw kacaw!

    OVERALL WRITEUP
    [SECRET]==General==
    Since its arrival, Honchkrow has always been a threat in Underused. Now, in BW2, it's back with a vengeance. By gaining the new ability, Moxie, its already-high 125 Base Attack jumps to towering levels after every kill. What makes Honchkrow even more scary is its practically unresisted coverage and strong priority that Heracross, a rival Moxie user, would absolutely beg for. A Base Speed of 71 is by no means amazing, but it is enough to get past the slower walls and pulverize them, and Sucker Punch bypasses the faster, more fragile ones. Dark/Flying typing gives it a free switch-in to Earthquake and Psychic while its STABs with Superpower obliterate the metagame once boosted. At the right time, Honchkrow can 6-0 an entire team!!

    But, there are still things that force Honchkrow not to be a top-tier Pokemon. 100 Base HP is great, especially in tandem with Brave Bird, but 52 Base defenses, Stealth Rock weakness, and common weaknesses make Honchkrow very hard to use. Also, Sucker Punch isn't the most reliable priority move in the world, so you better use it right. You cannot treat Honchkrow like a stereotypical sweeper like Victini or Raikou, because it does not work that way; it requires a tremendous amount of prediction in order to win. One wrong move can prove fatal.

    So, in the end, Honchkrow is indeed the mob boss that it appears to be: It is hired to kill, but only the right kind of person can hire it. However, for your opponent, if they make the wrong move against this monster, they're dead.


    ==Sweeping Like a Baws!==
    Honchkrow @ Life Orb
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Brave Bird
    - Superpower/Substitute
    - Pursuit/Night Slash/Roost/Substitute

    ==Set Comments==
    Behold, the set that brings horror to the poor, frail fools who think that they can freely sweep or weakened defensive behemoths that think they can survive with impunity. Once you come up against a killable foe and defeat it, you are nearly free to ravage through the rest of the team with power that makes Chandelure jealous. After every KO, thanks to Moxie, you become more and more powerful! Sucker Punch is Honchkrow's trump card and main move. It is the move that brings all-out attackers into checkmate when they think they can outspeed you. Brave Bird is your second power move of choice with the power to obliterate all slower Pokemon without super-high defense or resistances. Superpower is a great coverage move that Honchkrow can use, taking out all of the Pokemon that Brave Bird can't. Also, to make the move more appealing, when you knock out a Pokemon with Superpower, the attack drop becomes -0!

    Substitute is a beautiful move for Honchkrow because it lets you win most of the prediction wars that Honchkrow will face against switching and slower Pokemon, which makes it a worthy choice for either of the last two slots. The last slot depends on what you wish for utility. Pursuit is one of the best options if you are a really good predictor, and if you kill a Pokemon of the switch, you get a boost. Night Slash is a substitute for Sucker Punch against slower foes like Slowbro, Reuniclus, and Cofagrigus that get hit harder than Brave Bird and you do not have to rely on Sucker Punch to deal the damage it needs. Finally, Roost replenishes your lost health so that you can continue your spree. With all of this in mind, you can reshape Honchkrow into a SubRoost user to make stall users that aren't Steel type near-useless.

    The EVs are straightforward: Maximize Attack and optimize Speed because adding bulk is rather pointless for Honchkrow. the 4 SpDef EVs ensure that Download users do not get a Special Attack boost, which is helpful even if Honchkrow fails to take them on. Adamant and Life Orb brings Honchkrow's power to maximum levels. A Jolly nature lets Honchkrow outspeed more, but, rest assured, you will notice the power drop


    ==Fashionable Mob Boss (ScarfKrow)==
    Honchkrow @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SpAtk)
    - Night Slash
    - Brave Bird
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    ==Set Comments==
    With high attack, Moxie, and powerful moves, it would be a complete waste not to mention a Choice Scarf set! Unlike the first set that utilizes raw power, this set is made so that you play mind games and smash Pokemon like Cobalion and Virizion that think that they can come in and beat you into bits as both a sweeper and revenge killer.

    This set works a lot like MoxieScarf Krookodile, so if you understand how that works you can use this too. The main perk in using a Choice Scarf is that you do not have to rely on Sucker Punch to go first. Night Slash is a good substitute for Sucker Punch for nearly-equal power and higher PP (oh yeah, the higher crit rate is nice too). Brave Bird and Superpower are your power moves for fantastic coverage. This set is perfect for Pursuit, because it puts weakened Pokemon into complete checkmate situations since you will most likely outspeed them with a Choice Scarf.

    The EV spread is fairly obvious and already explained in the previous set. However, Jolly Nature is preferred in this case so you outspeed the entire tier that is not Scarfed besides Accelgor, Ninjask, and Electrode (all of whom are kind of rare). If you want to be conservative, you can run 8 Hp / 252 Attack / 248 Spd, but the mentioned one is more reliable. Also, this set is A LOT weaker than the other set, so don't think that you can go willy-nilly and switch into anything and just kill it because that is not how this set works.


    ==Other Options==
    Well, we can't quite say that the other options are expansive, but they are more than worthy for a voice. Expert Belt is a way to fake a Choice item, but your opponent will most likely notice and it is weaker than Life Orb. 105 Special Attack can allow it to go mixed with a Lonely Nature and utilize Heat Wave, Hidden Power Grass or Dark Pulse, which is less risky than using Superpower or Night Slash on Steels, Rocks, and Cofagrigus respectively. Be warned, though, that splitting EVs are really hard, so don't over-centralize the idea. Speaking of high Special Attack, Honchkrow gets Nasty Plot, and can become a decent mixed sweeper to run over common walls, but Moxie boosts are generally more reliable than hoping for a turn to set up. Drill Peck can be used alongside Brave Bird as a weaker substitute for late-game sweeping when you can't afford recoil. DO NOT REPLACE IT OVER BRAVE BIRD because it is literally 2/3 the strength (too weak) and it's not like the payoff of not taking recoil means anything for an all-out Pokemon that has Roost. Icy Wind sounds completely stupid, but it actually works by slowing down switch-ins and outspeeds all Pokemon with 115 or less Base Speed after a hit. It also 2HKOs 252/0 Eviolite Gligar with Life Orb even when Adamant and no Special Attack investment. Really gimmicky, but hysterical when it happens to work.


    ==Checks & Counters==
    A counter is defined as a Pokemon that can switch into any of an opposing Pokemon's moves with little threat.....I think you understand the problem here. If +1, Honchkrow can OHKO most of the Underused metagame. If it is +2 or higher and you have no way to surefire stop it, you might as well give up. That isn't to say it can't be stopped, though, because there are ways to prevent this catastrophe from occurring.

    We'll start with the first rule with dealing with Honchkrow: don't give it kills; that's just plain suicide. You want to deal with Honchkrow before the worst happens. When it comes to full counters, the best are Zapdos, Rhyperior, and Cobalion. Zapdos takes Superpower and Brave Bird and can outpredict Sucker Punch with Substitute. Rhyperior is only OHKOed by +2 Superpower and can retaliate with anything but Earthquake. Cobalion is more of a check than a counter, but, thanks to its high speed, it outspeeds Honchkrow and has absolutely no fear of Sucker Punch. If anything, it would like to be hit by Sucker Punch to boost Justified.

    While countering Honchkrow is pretty tedious, checking it is much easier. Faster Pokemon that resist Sucker Punch suck as Mienshao, Heracross, and Virizion are the safest bets to dealing with Honchkrow after a Pokemon is taken out. Honchkrow also hates priority users that are naturally faster than him with a passion. Weavile's Ice Shard, for example, is Honchkrow's bane of existence. Sableye outspeeds you regardless of the situation thanks to Prankster and burn you with Will-o-Wisp, making life extremely hard for your poor birdie. Cofagrigus is a huge pain to deal with without Night Slash because it will burn you and Mummy negates the boosts that Moxie would get, most likely forcing a switch. Healthy Bulky Waters, Gligar, and Porygon2 can take some hits as long as Honchkrow isn't boosted up and either heal off the damage given or retaliate with powerful moves. An honorable mention has to go to Quagsire who cancels out the boosts that Honchkrow obtains thanks to Unaware.

    There are also some passive ways to deal with Honchkrow. Stealth Rock and status, especially Burn, are huge burdens to Honchkrow and make its life miserable. If you can remove the boosts that Honchkrow got somehow with a fast Clear Smog or Haze user like Crobat, Honchkrow will be back to start and your chances are higher. Also, if you are a smart player, you can abuse the recoil from Life Orb and Brave Bird and send out a fodder like Blissey to make the recoil devastating for Honchkrow. Finally, abuse Honchkrow's low bulk. If you manage to take one of Honchkrow's hits and you have a move that can finish it off, you'll be okay. [/SECRET]

    WIKI WRITEUP
    [SECRET]
    {{pokeheader|gen=5}}
    {{TOC}}

    ==General==
    Since its arrival, Honchkrow has always been a threat in Underused. Now, in BW2, it's back with a vengeance. By gaining the new ability, [[Moxie]], its already-high 125 Base Attack jumps to towering levels after every kill. What makes Honchkrow even more scary is its practically unresisted coverage and strong priority that Heracross, a rival Moxie user, would absolutely beg for. A Base Speed of 71 is by no means amazing, but it is enough to get past the slower walls and pulverize them, and Sucker Punch bypasses the faster, more fragile ones. Dark/Flying typing gives it a free switch-in to [[Earthquake]] and [[Psychic]] while its STABs with Superpower obliterate the metagame once boosted. At the right time, Honchkrow can 6-0 an entire team!!

    But, there are still things that force Honchkrow not to be a top-tier Pokemon. 100 Base HP is great, especially in tandem with [[Brave Bird]], but 52 Base defenses, [[Stealth Rock]] weakness, and common weaknesses make Honchkrow very hard to use. Also, [[Sucker Punch]] isn't the most reliable priority move in the world, so you better use it right. You cannot treat Honchkrow like a stereotypical sweeper like {{5guu|Victini}} or {{5guu|Raikou}}, because it does not work that way; it requires a tremendous amount of prediction in order to win. One wrong move can prove fatal.

    So, in the end, Honchkrow is indeed the mob boss that it appears to be: It is hired to kill, but only the right kind of person can hire it. However, for your opponent, if they make the wrong move against this monster, they're dead.

    ==(Sweeping Like a Baws!)==
    {{set|name=Sweeping Like a Baws!|pkmn=Honchkrow|item=Life Orb|ability=Moxie|nature=Adamant|ev=252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spd|move1=Sucker Punch|move2=Brave Bird|move3=Superpower|move32=Substitute|move4=Substitute|move42=Pursuit|move43=Night Slash|move44=Roost}}

    Behold, the set that brings horror to the poor, frail fools who think that they can freely sweep or weakened defensive behemoths that think they can survive with impunity. Once you come up against a killable foe and defeat it, you are nearly free to ravage through the rest of the team with power that makes {{5guu|Chandelure}} jealous. After every KO, thanks to [[Moxie]], you become more and more powerful! [[Sucker Punch]] is Honchkrow's trump card and main move. It is the move that brings all-out attackers into checkmate when they think they can outspeed you. [[Brave Bird]] is your second power move of choice with the power to obliterate all slower Pokemon without super-high defense or resistances. [[Superpower]] is a great coverage move that Honchkrow can use, taking out all of the Pokemon that Brave Bird can't. Also, to make the move more appealing, when you knock out a Pokemon with Superpower, the attack drop becomes -0!

    [[Substitute]] is a beautiful move for Honchkrow because it lets you win most of the prediction wars that Honchkrow will face against switching and slower Pokemon, which makes it a worthy choice for either of the last two slots. The last slot depends on what you wish for utility. [[Pursuit]] is one of the best options if you are a really good predictor, and if you kill a Pokemon of the switch, you get a boost. [[Night Slash]] is a substitute for [[Sucker Punch]] against slower foes like {{5guu|Slowbro}}, {{5guu|Reuniclus}}, and {{5guu|Cofagrigus}} that get hit harder than [[Brave Bird]] and you do not have to rely on Sucker Punch to deal the damage it needs. Finally, [[Roost]] replenishes your lost health so that you can continue your spree. With all of this in mind, you can reshape Honchkrow into a SubRoost user to make stall users that aren't Steel type near-useless.

    The EVs are straightforward: Maximize Attack and optimize Speed because adding bulk is rather pointless for Honchkrow. the 4 SpDef EVs ensure that Download users do not get a Special Attack boost, which is helpful even if Honchkrow fails to take them on. Adamant and Life Orb brings Honchkrow's power to maximum levels. A Jolly nature lets Honchkrow outspeed more, but, rest assured, you will notice the power drop


    ==(Fashionable Mob Boss (ScarfKrow))==
    {{set|name=Fashionable Mob Boss (ScarfKrow)|pkmn=Honchkrow|item=Choice Scarf|ability=Moxie|nature=Jolly|ev=252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Attack|move1=Night Slash|move2=Brave Bird|move3=Superpower|move4=Pursuit}}

    With high attack, [[Moxie]]], and powerful moves, it would be a complete waste not to mention a [[Choice Scarf]] set! Unlike the first set that utilizes raw power, this set is made so that you play mind games and smash Pokemon like {{5guu|Cobalion}} and {{5guu|Virizion}} that think that they can come in and beat you into bits as both a sweeper and revenge killer.

    This set works a lot like MoxieScarf {{5guu|Krookodile}}, so if you understand how that works you can use this too. The main perk in using a [[Choice Scarf]] is that you do not have to rely on [[Sucker Punch]] to go first. [[Night Slash]] is a good substitute for Sucker Punch for nearly-equal power and higher PP (oh yeah, the higher crit rate is nice too). [[Brave Bird]] and [[Superpower]] are your power moves for fantastic coverage. This set is perfect for [[Pursuit]], because it puts weakened Pokemon into complete checkmate situations since you will most likely outspeed them with a [[Choice Scarf]].

    The EV spread is fairly obvious and already explained in the previous set. However, Jolly Nature is preferred in this case so you outspeed the entire tier that is not Scarfed besides {{5guu|Accelgor}}, {{5guu|Ninjask}}, and {{5guu|Electrode}} (all of whom are kind of rare). If you want to be conservative, you can run 8 Hp / 252 Attack / 248 Spd, but the mentioned one is more reliable. Also, this set is A LOT weaker than the other set, so don't think that you can go willy-nilly and switch into anything and just kill it because that is not how this set works.


    ==Other Options==
    Well, we can't quite say that the other options are expansive, but they are more than worthy for a voice. [[Expert Belt]] is a way to fake a Choice item, but your opponent will most likely notice and it is weaker than [[Life Orb]]. 105 Special Attack can allow it to go mixed with a Lonely Nature and utilize [[Heat Wave]], [[Hidden Power]] (Grass) or [[Dark Pulse]], which is less risky than using [[Superpower]] or [[Night Slash]] on Steels, Rocks, and {{5guu|Cofagrigus}} respectively. Be warned, though, that splitting EVs are really hard, so don't over-centralize the idea. Speaking of high Special Attack, Honchkrow gets [[Nasty Plot]], and can become a decent mixed sweeper to run over common walls, but [[Moxie]] boosts are generally more reliable than hoping for a turn to set up. [[Drill Peck]] can be used alongside [[Brave Bird]] as a weaker substitute for late-game sweeping when you can't afford recoil. DO NOT REPLACE IT OVER BRAVE BIRD because it is literally 2/3 the strength (too weak) and it's not like the payoff of not taking recoil means anything for an all-out Pokemon that has [[Roost]]. [[Icy Wind]] sounds completely stupid, but it actually works by slowing down switch-ins and outspeeds all Pokemon with 115 or less Base Speed after a hit. It also 2HKOs 252/0 [[Eviolite]] {{5guu|Gligar}} with Life Orb even when Adamant and no Special Attack investment. Really gimmicky, but hysterical when it happens to work.

    ==Checks and Counters==
    A counter is defined as a Pokemon that can switch into any of an opposing Pokemon's moves with little threat.....I think you understand the problem here. If +1, Honchkrow can OHKO most of the Underused metagame. If it is +2 or higher and you have no way to surefire stop it, you might as well give up. That isn't to say it can't be stopped, though, because there are ways to prevent this catastrophe from occurring.

    We'll start with the first rule with dealing with Honchkrow: don't give it kills; that's just plain suicide. You want to deal with Honchkrow before the worst happens. When it comes to full counters, the best are {{5guu|Zapdos}}, {{5guu|Rhyperior}}, and {{5guu|Cobalion}}. {{5guu|Zapdos}} takes [[Superpower]] and [[Brave Bird]] and can outpredict [[Sucker Punch]] with [[Substitute]]. {{5guu|Rhyperior}} is only OHKOed by +2 Superpower and can retaliate with anything but Earthquake. {{5guu|Cobalion}} is more of a check than a counter, but, thanks to its high speed, it outspeeds Honchkrow and has absolutely no fear of Sucker Punch. If anything, it would like to be hit by Sucker Punch to boost [[Justified]].

    While countering Honchkrow is pretty tedious, checking it is much easier. Faster Pokemon that resist Sucker Punch suck as {{5guu|Mienshao}}, {{5guu|Heracross}}, and {{5guu|Virizion}} are the safest bets to dealing with Honchkrow after a Pokemon is taken out. Honchkrow also hates priority users that are naturally faster than him with a passion. {{5guu|Weavile}}'s [[Ice Shard]], for example, is Honchkrow's bane of existence. {{5guu|Sableye}} outspeeds you regardless of the situation thanks to [[Prankster]] and burn you with [[Will-o-Wisp]], making life extremely hard for your poor birdie. {{5guu|Cofagrigus}} is a huge pain to deal with without [[Night Slash]] because it will burn you and [[Mummy]] negates the boosts that Moxie would get, most likely forcing a switch. Healthy Bulky Waters, {{5guu|Gligar}}, and {{5guu|Porygon2}} can take some hits as long as Honchkrow isn't boosted up and either heal off the damage given or retaliate with powerful moves. An honorable mention has to go to {{5guu|Quagsire}} who cancels out the boosts that Honchkrow obtains thanks to [[Unaware]].

    There are also some passive ways to deal with Honchkrow. [[Stealth Rock]] and status, especially [[Burn]], are huge burdens to Honchkrow and make its life miserable. If you can remove the boosts that Honchkrow got somehow with a fast [[Clear Smog]] or [[Haze]] user like {{5guu|Crobat}}, Honchkrow will be back to start and your chances are higher. Also, if you are a smart player, you can abuse the recoil from [[Life Orb]] and [[Brave Bird]] and send out a fodder like {{5guu|Blissey}} to make the recoil devastating for Honchkrow. Finally, abuse Honchkrow's low bulk. If you manage to take one of Honchkrow's hits and you have a move that can finish it off, you'll be okay.

    [[Category:5_Gen_UU_Analyses]]
    [/SECRET]

    On Wiki
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  2. Xinc

    Xinc Time for Oras?

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    Maybe mention Virizion can't switch into it, but can KO with Stone Edge or 2hko with HP Ice, (or simply sacrifice it, since a Honchkrow at 50% health will die if Virizion's at around 90% health and gets hit by brave bird.
     
  3. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Gave it a [Skeleton] tag.

    Uhh... is Cofagrigus worth a mention? It'll remove Honchkrow's Moxie if Krow attacks it, which is half the problem. It can also work its way around the Dark STAB by predicting Sucker Punches and burning the burd with WoW, rendering it useless.

    Prankster Sableye can also ruin it with a priority Wisp, too.

    Insomnia's also worth a mention imo, as it lets Krow come in on sleep setters like Amoonguss and punish them. S'all I got though.
     
  4. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Wow what was I eating forgetting about Mummyman and Sableye? >.<

    I truthfully don't like Insomnia because its not like Honchkrow would switch into Amoongus freely like that and Moxie is half the reason to use it, but if you insist...
     
  5. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Well, that's just my thoughts lol. I'm no expert at UU (though it's my best laddering tier atm), but if you don't want it in there, feel free to leave it out. :D
     
  6. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Added the two annoying Ghosts of doom in the counter sections but didn't add Insomnia because it really isn't worth it in the end.

    Again, thanks
     
  7. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    Heracross is a pretty good check, able to kill it with Stone Edge quite effectively. Also, bulky Water types (Milotic, Swampert, Suicune) are able to outstall it and use supereffective Ice moves on it, while Swampert can ToxicStall.

    In OO, only mention things that are semi-viable or viable. Don't say stuff that should never be used, as all that does is clutter the section
     
  8. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Added, already mentioned, and changed.
     
  9. Dangerous36M

    Dangerous36M Member

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    Instead of specifically mentioning things like Heracross and Virizion it'd be a lot easier to just mention that anything that resists Sucker Punch and outspeeds Honchkrow makes for a potent revenge killer.

    How does going mixed not add any utility? HP Grass nails Rhyperior (its main check/counter), and Heat Wave hits most Steel-types a lot harder than Superpower would.

    I'd also like to see Nasty Plot mentioned in the Other Options section.
     
  10. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Actually, Superpower does more, but using it does bring up the -1, so, yeah, I probably should change that :|

    Edit: Done
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  11. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Bumping, also started the General write-up!
     
  12. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Sorry for the triple post, but I'm bumping because the the entire write-up is done!

    Ready to go!!
     
  13. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    Sorry I didn't see this before. Go ahead and wikify! I don't see anything noticeably wrong with it :D.
     
  14. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Hurray!!!! First post I put on Wiki by myself!!! :D
     
  15. Xinc

    Xinc Time for Oras?

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    Good job! Looks good to me.