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[Final] Tropius

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU Analyses' started by Hobbes2, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Hobbes2

    Hobbes2 Aren't I dead or something

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    357.png
    *Despite being one of the best pokemon ever it has a lot of flaws competitively
    *Mediocre stats other then its defenses with a horrible defensive typing means that Tropius leaves much to be desired
    *Got new tools in the 5th gen in the forms of Harvest, Dragon Dance, and a Buffed Growth
    *Can be a decent subseeder if played properly; tropius has a stab flying to hit grasses that are immune to seed
    *Dragon Dance is unique on a pokemon like tropius and has the advantage of beating alomo and infinite lum berry
    *Chlorophyll Sweeper!
    *Overall it's not exactly a good pokemon, but if played to its few positives it could be an asset to your team

    ==Harvest is Overpowered=
    Tropius (M) @ Sitrus berry
    Trait: Harvest
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Air Slash

    ==Comments==
    *Sitrus Berry's buff in Gen 5 means that combined with harvest it adds to Tropius' survivability a LOT
    *Air slash hits pokemon that are immune to leech seed super effectively
    *This set basically aims to come on something it can set up on, such as choice locked moves or a weak wall like alomo
    *Run 116 speed evs to outspeed Alomomola, an easy pokemon to setup on, and other random threats

    ==Chloro Sweeper==
    Tropius (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Air Slash
    - SolarBeam / Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power (Fire)

    ==Comments==

    *Tropius, when boosted by chlorophyll, combined with its natural bulk and growth makes for a decent sun sweeper
    *Has its niche in setup opportunities - they aren't rare due to the nature of tropius's bulk and typing
    *Has good coverage with the given moves
    *Not much else to say; it's your average sweeper in the sun.

    ==Banana Dancer==

    Tropius (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Seed Bomb
    - Frustration / Aerial Ace
    - Earthquake

    ==Comments==

    *Dragon Dance is a great move by itself; raising speed and attack is no laughing matter
    *The given moves are the only usable physical moves that Tropius gets
    *Orb for power
    *This set can setup on pokemon that think they can cripple you with status, such as scald users like wartortle and alomo, and due to its flying typing pokemon choice locked into earthquake or a flying move
    *Has enough speed to outpseed most non scarfed pokemon after one boost, but if you can snag two you can outspeed most of the tier, boosted or not
    *The main danger of this set is that many physical walls are defeated by the grass stab, and some by the flying stab if you opt to use aerial ace

    ==Other Options==
    *Swords Dance is trash unless you use it with chloro, when growth is superior anyway
    *Roost is good reliable recovery and could find itself on a few of the sets
    *Dragon Pulse / Outrage for nuetral coverage, though outrage is risky to use.
    *Curse with rest talk might seem good in theory but is completely destroyed by faster pokemon with ice beam / hp ice, and overall just isn't a good set
    *A bunch of other harvest related options are outclassed by Exeggutor, such as Leppa PP stall.
    *Chesto + Rest = infinite auto recovery (assuming harvest is on your side with its 50% chance) combined with some offensive option such as Dragon Dance is usable. Without setup, though, the set is not good due to Tropius' weak offenses.
    *Starf Berry!

    ==Checks and Counters==
    *Ice and Rock type moves are the bane of Tropius' existance (and fire too)
    *Garbodor can use Tropius as hazards setup bait (and can break subs with rock blast)
    *Taunt shuts it down
    *Regice and Articuno take low damage from special attacks and can ohko back with ice beam
    *The physical set, the easiest way to beat it is by outspeeding and killing it, which is easy due to Tropius' relatively low speed
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2013
  2. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I'd give Rest + Chesto a mention somewhere, as Tropius' different typing to Exeggutor gives it reasons to be used instead (such as not immediately dying to Bugs, for example). With Harvest, Tropius and Exeggutor are imo the best users of the move.
     
  3. The Real Elmo

    The Real Elmo Caterpie hungers...

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    For the Sun Sweeper set:
    Slash Giga Drain behind Solarbeam. That way, in case you run out of/fail to get sun up you still have a grass STAB to use.

    For the DD set:
    Nature power > Earthquake
    More pp and avoids Sucker Punch!
    Leaf Blade > Seed Bomb
    Stronger + crit

    OO:
    Outrage and Dragon Pulse as neutral coverage options
    Silver Wind & Ominous Wind
    Roost!
     
  4. Arceus_17

    Arceus_17 Avoid eye contact

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    [Brief]A_17
    @The Real Elmo

    Leaf Blade and Nature Power are illegal with Dragon Dance.


    @Hoobes

    Isn't Starf Berry worth a mention somewhere? With some luck you can sweep entire teams :o
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  5. The Real Elmo

    The Real Elmo Caterpie hungers...

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    Oh, they are :/
    Blasted egg moves :<
    good catch Arceus.
    Probably want to mention that illegality somewhere in the write up then.

    Starf is worth a mention in OO. Tropius's different typing sets him apart enough from Eggy for it to be worth it imo
     
  6. Hobbes2

    Hobbes2 Aren't I dead or something

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    I'll mention starf. I'll also start the writeup soon then take suggestions from QC in the writeup.

    Roost as well

    @Elmo it's also the reason i can't use Leaf Blade instead of Seed Bomb
     
  7. Incon

    Incon I feel incapable of seeing the end.

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    Implement those changes and i'd say you're good.

    Approved
     
  8. The Real Elmo

    The Real Elmo Caterpie hungers...

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    ^ Ditto
    Approved
     
  9. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Approved
     
  10. Hobbes2

    Hobbes2 Aren't I dead or something

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    Sorry for period of death, charger broke. I got it.
     
  11. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    updated

    {{Header}}
    {{Tier| BW2 NU}}

    {{Overview|First things first; yes, it's a leafy dinosaur thing with a beard made of bananas. Despite being one of the best pokemon ever, Tropius here has more than its fair share of flaws competitively.

    Mediocre stats other then its defenses with a horrible defensive typing means that Tropius leaves much to be desired, especially when it comes to carving out its own niche in the NU tier. It got a few new tools in the 5th gen in the forms of Harvest, Dragon Dance, and a buffed Growth, which is definitely a start at least. This means it can be a decent subseeder if played properly; tropius has a stab flying to hit Grass-types that are immune to its Leech Seed, which is definitely somewhat useful.

    Dragon Dance is another thing that's unique on a Grass-type like Tropius, and Harvest means that Tropius can beat the infamous Alomomola one on one with it. That's quite an achievement!

    Overall, Tropius is not exactly a good pokemon by any stretch of the imagination, but if played to its few positives it could be an asset to your team. Not to mention, free bananas.}}

    {{Set|Combine Harvester|
    Tropius @ Sitrus berry
    Trait: Harvest
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Air Slash}}

    {{Comments|Thanks to the buff that the Sitrus Berry received in Gen 5, the viability of Harvest has increased tenfold. Instead of restoring a mere 30 HP to the consumer, it restores a meaty 30% of their max HP, which is a significant difference. Combine this with Leech Seed recovery, Protect stalling and a Substitute, and Tropius becomes very hard to actually break.

    The set is configured phyiscally defensive to best take advantage of its key Fighting resistance, as well as helping it sponge priority attacks and other physical annoyances like U-turns. Specially defensive does adhere slightly better to Tropius' base stats, and can easily be done, but physically defensive is preferred.

    It doesn't function much differently from an every day SubSeeder, with the first three moves being fairly self explanatory, however what makes Tropius special is mostly its banana beard, but also its access to Air Slash! This means that incoming Grass-types can be worn down by it instead of simply walling the set. Tropius lackluster base 72 Special Attack leaves a bit to be desired, but it certainly isn't that bad.

    Investing 116 Speed EVs to outrun Alomomola can be considered, because Alomomola is an annoying wall that most teams struggle to get rid of, and Tropius can easily take advantage of this.}}

    {{Set|Chlorophyll Sweeper|
    Tropius (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Air Slash
    - SolarBeam / Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Fire}}

    {{Comments|Tropius, when boosted by chlorophyll, combined with its natural bulk and growth makes for a decent sun sweeper.

    Its main niche exists in its typing once again, but also its natural bulk, which means it can find more setup opportunities than your average Grass cannon like Victreebel. Its Speed isn't great, even after the Chlorophyll boost, however it still hits a fairly impressive 442 in the sun, which is faster than common Choice Scarfers like Sawk, for perspective. That's not bad for a base 51.

    Air Slash, a Grass STAB and Hidden Power Fire are the given attacks for their good neutral coverage. The only real dilemma is the choice of whether to run SolarBeam or Giga Drain for the Grass STAB. The former hits harder while the latter keeps Tropius alive for longer. Choose carefully.

    Other than that though, there isn't much to say; Tropius makes a fairly standard Chlorophyll sweeper. If you want more sun, consider the Heat Rock for the hold item.}}

    {{Set|Banana Dancer|
    Tropius (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Harvest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Seed Bomb
    - Return / Aerial Ace
    - Earthquake}}

    {{Comments|Tropius may not be your first choice for a physical sweeper, what with bases of 68 and 51 to work with, however it's actually a really unique choice that can work in your favour, having unusual access to Dragon Dance to help both of the aforementioned stats, and its trademark Harvest prevents status abusers like Wartortle or Alomomola from ruining it, and thus Tropius can set up on them almost indefinitely (watch out for the rare Haze on Wartortle).

    The novelty more or less ends there, though. It's nothing gamebreaking otherwise. After one boost, Tropius outruns positive natured base 100s, which includes Pinsir, Primeape, Drapion, Sawk, and many other threats, which isn't that bad. If you can get two boosts (also very possible thanks to Harvest and natural bulk), there's very little you won't outspeed.

    Tropius' typing gives it fun setup opportunities on Ground- and Fighting-type STABs, due to tanking both moves well. Harvest also gives it plenty of chances against anything that likes to spam status. That's why the Lum Berry is listed as a hold item, because it gives Tropius near immunity to status.

    Dragon Dance is obligatory, being the set's purpose, while Seed Bomb is the listed STAB because Leaf Blade and Dragon Dance are sadly illegal together. Return and Aerial Ace in slot 2 are primary coverage options, the latter packing STAB but lacking power. Return offers coverage against almost everything, with only Steel-types, Haunter and Drifblim resisting both moves.

    Those aforementioned Steel-types are harmed by Earthquake in slot 4, which also punishes Fire-types thinking they can take advantage of your banana dinosaur, and hits Electric-types harder than anything else Tropius has access to.

    A Jolly nature is chosen over Adamant because Tropius really needs the Speed in order to even function.}}

    {{Options|Swords Dance isn't worth trying, being outclassed by Dragon Dance on sets that aren't sun reliant, and outclassed by Growth on sets that are.

    Solar Power is Tropius' other ability, but Tropius struggles to make any real use of it unless it can somehow find Trick Room support as well as sun support at the same time. Much like Sunflora, Tropius would be a monster with it if only it could viably use it.

    Curse exists in Tropius' movepool, however it offers little utility due to the banana dinosaur's 4x Ice weakness and less than stellar base stats. Harvest can be abused in many other ways, such as infinite RestoChesto, however most of the time Exeggutor will do the job better. The Starf Berry does get a mention however for giving Tropius a pseudo Accupressure boost when its HP is reduced to 'pinch' levels. If you get lucky with Harvest, Tropius could receive several stat boosts in one turn, and that could really turn the tables.

    Lastly, the rest of Tropius' movepool contains mostly redundant Dragon coverage in Dragon Pulse and Outrage. Neither are really worth considering.}}

    {{Checks|Fire-, Rock- and especially Ice-type moves are the bane of Tropius' existence. Anything using the moves and not weak to Tropius' attacks can generally consider itself an answer.

    Garbodor can use Tropius as hazards setup bait (and can break subs with rock blast), while Emboar is big and ugly enough to take about anything Tropius can throw, then fry the banana dinosaur with its Flare Blitz.

    Taunt shuts it down, as all three sets rely heavily on at least some means of setup. Regice and Articuno take low damage from special attacks and can OHKO back with Ice Beam.

    Against the physical set, the easiest way to beat it is by outspeeding and killing it, which is easy due to Tropius' relatively low speed. All you really need is a Choice Scarf user (literally any will do) with a hard hitting STAB, or just a STAB Ice Shard. Piloswine is one of the best mentions here, however it won't like a boosted Seed Bomb.}}

    {{footer}}