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[BW2] Pokemon of the Week 5: Charizard

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU' started by Incon, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. Incon

    Incon I feel incapable of seeing the end.

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    Pokemon of the Week 1 - Gardevoir. Post #1
    Pokemon of the Week 2 - Samurott. Post #11
    Pokemon of the Week 3 - Emboar. Post #26
    Pokemon of the Week 4 - Misdreavus. Post #36
    Pokemon of the week 5 - Charizard Post #41

    The NU tier takes Pokemon that don't see usage and gives them an environment where they can shine. This thread spotlights some of these Pokemon and aims to discuss the positives and negatives of using it in the current metagame.

    For the first week of Pokemon of the Week, we will be spotlighting the recent drop Gardevoir.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    68 | 65 | 65 | 125 | 115 | 80


    Psychic is a great type in the current metagame checking the frequently seen Fighting-Types in the tier. With powerhouses like Sawk and Gurdurr in the tier, another Psychic type was very welcome. Blessed with an amazing ability in Trace, great stats in both Special Attack and Special Defense, and a versatile offensive and support movepool, Gardevoir can pull off an array of different sets, being one of its biggest selling points.

    Teammates:
    As with a lot of offensive Pokemon in the tier, Gardevoir appreciates Hazard support. Most Hazards help Gardeovoir net some extra Ko's, furthering its offensive prowess. Gardevoir works well with strong Fighting-Types who can take care of the Dark-Types that threaten it. Sawk, Primeape, and Gurdurr make great choices for teammates as they can effectively deal with them. Gurdurr gets an extra mention as it can set up rather easily on Skuntank while Koing Houndoom with Mach Punch after Stealth Rocks. Due to a subpar Defense stat, Gardevoir struggles with tanking strong physical attacks, thus Physical walls such as Alomomola or Weezing make good teammates.

    Drawbacks:
    Gardevoir isn't without its drawbacks. Its Hp, Defense, and Speed leave a lot to be desired, as she struggles against fast physical attackers such as Sawsbuck or Swellow. To go along with that, most Dark-Types in the tier hit from the Physical side making Gardevoir extremely vulnerable to Pursuit Trapping. Dedicated Special walls such as Lickilicky or Regice can tank on hit it has to offer (bar Focus Blast) and stall her out. The role as Psychic-Type/Fighting-Type check is rather competitive in the NU tier, thus it faces stiff competition from the likes of Mesprit or Musharna for a spot on your team.

    [​IMG]

    So with that, lets discuss the impact Gardevoir has on the tier. What are some of the best sets it can use? What does Gardevoir have that warrants usage over Mesprit or Musharna? Are there other Pokemon that synergize well with Gardevoir? What else counters Gardevoir, and how does she deal with said counters?

    Each pokemon will have one week, and in that time, the community will discuss these questions.

    Let the discussions begin!

    FINCH WAS HERE!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2013
  2. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Great thread. Good idea in your part, glad we talked it over and made it happen!


    Here's probably the most common Gardevoir set:

    Julie (Gardevoir) @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) / Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psychic / Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball / Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Trick

    With Choice Specs, it is a wallbreaker. With Choice Scarf, it is a revenge killer.
    The Gardevoir is all-out-offensive. Psychic + Fighting gives you stellar coverage, with Shadow Ball for opposing Psychics or HP Ground for Skuntank / Houndoom without risking miss. Trick in last spot for crippling walls and such.
    Overall, nothing walls the specs variant. The scarf isn't that easy to get rid of, either! However, if you are looking for a fighting resist, Gardevoir has awful physicsl bulk with no investment, so don't rely on it.

    This gardevoir works well with something like Sawk who has a synergetic offensive typing with it and can also break through walls. Primeape is also pretty interesting as a partner.

    I don't think that Musharna's offensive / specs sets are nearly as good due to lack of speed and power. But, Mesprit is comprable due to it's boltbeam(and grass knot) coverage. Plus, u-turn and better physical bulk. However, gardevoir usually is your best choice due to it's better raw power and acceptable speed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  3. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    Here's my favorite Gardevoir set :o

    Gardevoir (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 SDef / 76 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Psychic

    Gardevoir is an amazing special tank, even more so because it has Wish to help its teammates. But that's not where it stops: Gardevoir lures in physical attackers and can burn them with Will-o-Wisp, stalling them out even if you want. Even uninvested Gardevoir can do good damage with Psychic thanks to that beastly base 125 spatk. This set does get totally walled by Houndoom, but then again Houndoom threatens every Gardevoir set so you're just going to have to have a good Houndoom check. Oh and 76 EV's so you outspeed standard Skuntank and burn stall it, hehe.
     
  4. topah

    topah Active Member

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    Wrong

    Anyway yea its a great addition to NU and has a lot of underused moves like Encore, Healing Wish, Will o miss that dont see much usage on its movesets.
    Thinking of trying Encorevoir~
     
  5. Scene

    Scene reverie

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    Great thread! I personally like Specs for sheer power, but defensive sets work well too. Trace is great for trolling Manectric too.
     
  6. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    A scarf set with healing wish (or even encore) is interesting. Revive a mon with the speed to make sure you get it off while functioning as a revenger with Psychic+Fighting coverage.
    Problem with it is that it lacks the sheer power of specs set and is still out sped by most other common scarf users.

    And @Scizor,
    Trace is a great ability. Helps against a plethora of threats.
     
  7. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Trace is a really cool ability. Revenging Rain Dance sweepers like Seismitoed is a great feeling. Xdevo posted a really cool set in the creative move set thread, which had Colbur Berry + HP Ground to lure and kill Skuntank. If you couple that with another offensive Psychic type like Mesprit, your opponent is eventually going to get overloaded. It works really well.
     
  8. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    finch made me post.
    I'm just going to focus on this question, since I've already posted my set in the other thread (and I wrote the analysis).
    The biggest difference between the Gardevoir and the other two is the its huge Special Attack. 125 Special Attack allows Gardevoir to hit much harder than Mushy or Mesprit. Secondly, Gardevoir's vast support movepool. WOW, Encore, Taunt, Wish, etc allow Gardevoir to play a defensive role, even though it has worse overall bulk than Mesprit or Mushy. Overall, Gardevoir is best when using a wallbreaker or powerful offensive role or being special wall. Gardevoir's CM set would only really better done if Gardevoir uses it for the offensive boost, not for the bulk.

    The biggest thing keeping Gardevoir down is its inability to handle Sawk, unlike Mesprit and Musharna.
     
  9. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I'd honestly say the biggest thing keeping Gardevoir down is the fact that it's not either a glue like Mesprit can be or a pokemon you can slap onto nearly any team and it'll work around as well as it would if you built around it, like Musharna. Sawk isn't really that big a problem, since on defensive Gardevoir sets you should be spamming WoW anyway and it's only switching into offensive sets with Sturdy. It has very specific pokemon it can check well depending on the set, and both its offensive and defensive spreads take some degree of prediction to work well.

    I'd say what Gardevoir has over Mesprit specifically is a different kind of utility. Mesprit provides rocks, has U-turn and can go offensive due to some super effective coverage it gets. Meanwhile Gardevoir can Wish pass, at least attempt to spam burn and generally works better defensively, especially when paired with another pokemon to form a core. It can go offensive and break down walls, but it generally wants that defensive role that, because of how NU's metagame is right now, it just can't fill. I'd still put WoW on any non-choiced offensive set though.
     
  10. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Well, the Sawk comment is about teambuilding. If I want to add a Psychic-type to my team, I'd like it to have the ability to check various Fighting-types. Specially Defensive Gardevoir is 2HKOed by Band Close Combat, while the other two aren't 2HKOed with just Max HP. That is part of the reason that isn't used as much as the other two; if you want to use Gardevoir you are almost forced to use another Fighting-type check.

    Gardevoir does have its other utilities, with the Wish passing and etc., but because it doesn't check the most common thing in the metagame and is in competition for a teamslot for the two most common checks to it, it won't get the amount of usage it could/should/would have gotten.
     
  11. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    The NU tier takes Pokemon that don't see usage and gives them an environment where they can shine. This thread spotlights some of these Pokemon and aims to discuss the positives and negatives of using it in the current metagame.


    For the second week of Pokemon of the Week, we will be spotlighting a long-time threat: Samurott

    [​IMG]
    95 | 100 | 85 | 108 | 70 | 70​

    With Mono-Water typing, Samurott is only weak to Grass and Electric. Also, Samurott has coverage moves like Ice Beam, Hidden Power [Grass] / Grass Knot, and Megahorn to help it strive on the offensive end, too. Although new threats like Ludicolo and older NU pokemon like Lickylicky can stand up to it's special options, it's physical sets let it defeat most of it's reguar checks. However, it loses the raw power and stallbreaking potential.

    Teamates: Samurott works pretty much like any other offensive pokemon when it comes to synergy. It likes something that can break through what it cannot. So, since Samurott typically loses to Grass pokemon (like Ludicolo or Roselia), a good partner would be a Flying, Bug, or Fire type (to be specific in countering those counters with specific NU pokemon, Swellow, Houndoom, and Emboar are a few random examples.) Also, Samurott loves entry hazards, especially the SD set, which is a great aid for it to sweep.

    Drawbacks: While Samurott is a top tier threat, it isn't without a few flaws. First, Samurott's sub par 70 base speed stat makes it out sped by many common Pokemon in the tier. Mesprit, Sawsbuck, and Klinklang are among these and all take minimal damage from Aqua Jet, unless boosted. They can then fire off a Super effective attack. Bulky Water types make great checks to Samurott, namely Mantine and Alomomola who take of the special and physical sets respectively. Mantine receives an extra mention as it recovers health when hit by a water attack also deals nicely with physical set, resisting all of its attacks, although boosted Megahorns will start to hurt due to Mantine's low defense. Lickilicky and Regice do well against the special set, taking minimal damage from all of its attacks. Bulky Grass types deserve a mention such as Roselia and Vileplume, although they both fear repeated Ice Beams and Megahorns.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  12. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    um surely this should be a new thread for samurott no?
     
  13. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Mantine is probably my most favorite Samurott counter. It can take the special set really well because of its massive Special Defense stat, but the only thing it fears is the rare Hidden Power Electric. It can check the Physical set as well because it resists Megahorn and is immune to STAB Waterfall/Aqua Jet.

    (will post set later)
     
  14. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    No point in making a new thread each week.
    Just clog up the SubForum.

    And @Dzi,
    Mantine's is a good answer to Rott. Only problem is, it is weak to rocks and not that great, otherwise.
     
  15. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Yea its weak to Rocks and doesn't have a reliable move to regain its HP so it needs to use Rest.

    If only Mantine has Roost/Recover.
     
  16. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    When talking about Samurott, underrated moves such as CopyCat and Encore should be mentioned as well. A set running CopyCat and Encore might turn a Pokemon setting up Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, or Calm Mind into set-up fodder when Samurott Encores and then Copies it? It would have to run a lot of speed.
     
  17. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    My favorite way to take out Samurott is with Houndoom. Use HP Grass as they Swords Dance, then Sucker Punch on the Aqua Jet. The special set is like totally outclassed by Ludicolo anyway :3

    That being said, Taunt Samurott is a pretty okay lead.
     
  18. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Houndoom is in no way a counter, nor check, to Samurott. In fact, Samurott could be considered a check to Houndoom.
    Sure, if you predict well enough and your opponent has the right set, you can get a kill here and there - but that entitles you playing very well and/or your opponent misplaying.

    Ludicolo doesn't outclass the special set. Ludicolo doesn't have taunt and samurott doesn't need rain ,it just breaks through stall regardles of rain being up or not. Yes, they have the same coverage. No, you cannot compare one to the other and say one's totally better.

    Also, there are no leads in BW (team preview!!!) So, Taunt Samurott shouldn't be your "lead."
     
  19. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Ludicolo is probably better, water grass is better defensive typing + it has stab giga drain to hit alot harder than unstab hp grass and to recover off life orb damage, it can also run rain dance to be a self sufficient sweeper and/or stall breaker. Admittedly Samurott hits harder before the rain is up + can use aqua jet well even on the special set, but Ludicolo is probably better.
     
  20. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    You're comparing a sweeper and a wall/stall breaker, just not going to work - they serve different purposes.
    Hell, if we must compare them, I'd even say that Samurott is better on the bulky end of the spectrum.
    It runs a godly bulky swords dance set.

    Fish (Samurott) @ Mystic Water
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Aqua Jet

    This set is amazing (especially with the now common rain support.) It can tank a CB Close Combat, non-specs Volt Switch, or LO Giga Drain and live in Torrent range without rocks up (and if damage varries are nice, it lives regardless.)
    Overall, Bulky Offensive Water type sweepers aren't that uncommon, but Samurott stands out as one of the best, for its respective tier.
     
  21. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    specs sam is my favourite thing to use in nu
    it is an absolute monster that destroys pretty much everything unless ur immune to water
    here are some calcs to illustrate the sheer power of hydro:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 265-312 (49.62 - 58.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (although more people are starting to run 4hp/252def/252spdef)
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 155-183 (43.78 - 51.69%) -- 74.22% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 211-250 (49.76 - 58.96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Regice: 135-159 (37.19 - 43.8%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 225-265 (54.87 - 64.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    and what u dont get with hydro, u kill with coverage moves:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 168-198 (55.26 - 65.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 252-298 (47.19 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (do people run spdef alo?)

    u can even get around pretty much the biggest faggot, mantine, by running bliz:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 141-166 (42.34 - 49.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    im pretty inexperienced in nu so the evs are pretty straight forward, but this is what ive been running:

    [​IMG]
    Samurott (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Ice Beam/ Blizzard
    - Surf

    i personally prefer ice beam since, mantine has 2.3% usage unranked and 2.7% ranked, but its nice to be able to have the choice to beat ur counter

    tldr: specs sam 2hkos the entire meta with the appropriate move
     
  22. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Not quite:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kecleon: 180-213 (55.55 - 65.74%)
    And then, when it becomes Water-type: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Samurott Hydro Pump vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kecleon: 91-108 (28.08 - 33.33%) -- possible 4HKO

    Admittedly, it is JUST BARELY a survival, but it's still survival (gets a bit dicey with Rocks on the field). Granted, Kecleon's used even less than Mantine, but it is something that survives. Poor guy's so underrated. D:
     
  23. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Yeah but come on who uses Kecleon? That thing is terrible.
     
  24. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Lol yeah, I know. It was just something that survived the two Hydro Pumps, albeit just barely, so I figured I'd give him a mention. :3
     
  25. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    Kecleon is actually very good in NU, it has crazy special bulk, reliable recovery in Recover, a great ability that allows him to wall water/grass/fire/ice/electric/steel/bug/psychic/dark and even ghost moves moves easily. Not even Specs Exeggutor can touch Kecleon.

    On top of that, Kecleon has access to the precious Stealth Rock, allowing him to support his team mates. Knock Off is also a great move, removing the opponents Leftovers or Eviolite and reducing their survivability. T-Wave on the other hand can cripple fast sweepers like Sawk.
     
  26. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    The NU tier takes Pokemon that don't see usage and gives them an environment where they can shine. This thread spotlights some of these Pokemon and aims to discuss the positives and negatives of using it in the current metagame.

    For the third week of Pokemon of the Week, we will be spotlighting the shake n' bacon Pokemon: Emboar

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    110 | 123 | 65 | 100 | 65 | 65​

    With incredible Fire/Fighting typing, vast movepool, and fantastic offensive stats, Emboar is without a doubt one of the strongest Pokemon in NU. Base 123 Attack paired with physical moves like Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, Superpower, Head Smash, and Earthquake makes it a great physical attacker. While Base 100 Special Attack paired with special moves like Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, and Scald make it a great special attacker too. Subpar Speed makes Flame Charge a viable option, or a simple Choice Scarf if you just want revenge killing. The counters to the physical sets get beaten by the special set, while the counters for the special set get beaten by the physical set.

    Teammates:
    Like any offensive Pokemon, Emboar appreciates team members who can help break what he's usually unable to do. For the physical set, tough physical walls like Alomomola give it pain, so Emboar doesn't mind strong special attacking Pokemon when running a Choice Band set. To be more specific, when running a physical set, Emboar appreciates Grass-type Pokemon who can switch into its checks easily, or Pokemon that can take hits well, since Emboar is easily outpaced by many other Pokemon. The special set follows the same guidelines, although the Choice Specs set appreciates Pokemon who can take hits, since the Choice Specs is almost impossible to switch into and not take a lot, Emboar will be being outsped by whatever comes in after the other Pokemon faints. When using Emboar, you'll probably need a one or two Pokemon who can take a hit, if not, Emboar will be fodder or you'll have to sac something probably.

    Drawbacks:
    Although Emboar is a very strong Pokemon, it's lackluster Speed is its biggest drawback. With only Base 65 Speed, Emboar is unable to outpace a lot of offensive Pokemon in NU. When facing an offensive team, Emboar commonly finds himself unable to do anything to a lot of faster Pokemon, since it cant outspeed a lot of Pokemon commonly found on HO teams (Sawsbuck, Gardevoir, Samurott, Ludicolo) and are all able to KO with their respective moves. No access to priority is a big drawback too, since Emboar is unable to pick off weakened foes. It's only able to gain Speed with a Choice Scarf or using Flame Charge, and you'll only be able to use Flame Charge successfully is against stall teams, making it hard for Emboar to cause a lot of damage in NU like it used to.


    So with that, lets discuss the Emboar has on the tier. Are there other Pokemon that synergize well with Emboar? What else counters Emboar, and how does it deal with said counters? Why use Emboar when there are other great Fighting-type Pokemon? What sets can Emboar use to great success?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  27. meeps

    meeps Well-Known Member

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    case is dum and annoying so he is making me post this set for emboar

    Emboar @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Focus Blast
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power Ice

    due to emboar's amazing coverage, and lack of special walls in the tier, specs emboar is one of the biggest threats in the tier. with correct move choice it is capable of 2hkoing nearly the entire tier (few lesser used pokes such as grumpig and mantine will be safe from 2hko). specs emboar also brings a surprise factor, being a less commonly used set luring in alomomola and other checks to its physical set, and firing off a focus blast which ohkos alomomola. regarding the moveset selection; fire blast and focus blast are the obvious stab moves, obliterating almost anything that doesnt resist either. grass knot is mainly for seismitoad and gastrodon which take much of emboar's attacks other than grass knot fairly well. it also makes a fairly nice choice to ohko rock-types without having to worrying about focus blast's shaky accuracy. hp ice is for altaria which resists everything else emboar may have

    some calcs and whatnot

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Reckless Emboar (+SAtk) Focus Blast vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Alomomola (Neutral): 94% - 110% (502 - 592 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 64% chance to OHKO. (ohko with rocks)
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Reckless Emboar (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Mesprit (Neutral): 85% - 100% (258 - 304 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 4% chance to OHKO. (rarely survives without hp invest after sr)
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Reckless Emboar (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Musharna (+SpDef): 46% - 54% (201 - 237 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 4% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers. (likely 2hko after rocks, and spdef mushy is rare)
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Reckless Emboar (+SAtk) Focus Blast vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Cloud Nine Lickilicky (+SpDef): 94% - 111% (402 - 474 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 69% chance to OHKO. (only specs attacker that can ohko lickilicky after rocks)
    [/HIDE]
     
  28. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Finchinator / Finch
    Emboar @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (-Atk, -SAtk) / Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Superpower
    - Wild Charge
    - Sleep Talk / Filler

    This is basically the standard Emboar, might as well put it out there. It wrecks through the metagame with Choice Banded attacks. It has potential to 2hko walls like Alomomola and such, while it's scarf set can surprisingly outpace the whole unboosted metagame and pick apart offensive teams with various fast and strong attacks.
    Nothing much else to say.
    dog
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  29. emac

    emac Emad

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    Emboar (M) @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Focus Blast
    - Fire Blast
    - Grass Knot

    Whoooop!

    This is a fun set to use. It bluffs scarf/specs, and if you play your cards right you can get a +1 emboar behind a sub and in blaze range. Emboar has pretty good typing, so he finds lots of places to switch in, and he causes lots of switches so there are many good opportunities to set up subs. This set can also be run mixed with superpower over focus blast.
     
  30. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Trait: Blaze
    EV's: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
    Nature: Hasty (+Spe, -Def) (I think)
    - Flame Charge
    - Fire Blast
    - Focus Blast
    - Grass Knot

    Since a lot of Emboar's are mostly choiced, running Flame Charge to boost Speed is certainly a viable option. I ran this set possibly about 3 times during POWC, and it worked fairly well every time. Unfortunately it's not able to outpace Swellow after one Flame Charge, but it can outpace anything under anything under 376 Speed, which is a lot of unscarfed Pokemon in NU. I chose to run a mainly special set because I like the Fire/Grass coverage, and Focus Blast is there for obvious STAB. And Alomomola gets hurt harder on this set, since it believes Flame Charge means all physical set. Also there's a lack of special walls who take on Emboar well, i.e Lickilicky, Regice, and Roselia. It basically works like Emac's except a lot better because he steals my sets and he's very jealous.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  31. tennisace

    tennisace pretty hurts

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    I was going to post a really similar set, but with Substitute over Grass Knot. Basically, it plays a lot like Combusken, except without the passive Speed boosts and with more bulk and power. Pretty sure I ran Timid too, but I don't know because it's been forever since I used it!

    I don't really think that Grass Knot is really necessary either, since a super effective Grass Knot hits almost the entire tier for less damage than a neutral Focus Blast. I haven't played PO NU for a while, so I'm probably forgetting things. Mantine is probably the only thing that you can't touch without Grass Knot, and even with it, a neutral 120 Base Power move isn't going to be doing a whole lot to Mantine. Still, I see the merits behind it (reliable accuracy, etc), but I like Substitute a lot more. With it, you can force something out, Substitute as the opponent switches into his physical wall, and then hopefully decimate it with special attacks~
     
  32. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    Yeah since Gastrodon is in the tier now, Grass Knot becomes a bit more helpful. And it usually nets KO's or heavy damage on defensive Seismitoad which is always nice. I mean I guess if you're going to run Substitute then you could probably run Substitute > Flame Charge like Emac does. Coverage moves can vary from Hidden Power Ice since this set is shut down entirely because Altaria, or maybe even a physical move to make sure special walls don't beat you badly.
     
  33. tennisace

    tennisace pretty hurts

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    Yeah, see, I forgot Gastrodon was even NU here lol. I definitely see where Grass Knot would be better, if only for that, and when I ran that Emboar set way back on Smogon when hail was legal in the tier and got smashed by Fire/Fighting-type coverage. Sub+three attacks is really cool as well though. Hidden Power Grass is another option of Grass Knot as well for more general reliability. I haven't done many calcs, but I know that having only 40 BP against Gorebyss can hurt a lot. It also hits Gastrodon a bit harder. Depends on what you are looking to hit, I suppose.
     
  34. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    If there's no Hidden Power listed, why not HP Grass? It's more solid, reliable power? *shrugs*
     
  35. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    I have to give credit where credit is due, even if it is for a generation five pokemon.

    Anyways, the choice band emboar can two hit the entire tier without exception with blitz, superpower and wild charge, go ahead and prove me wrong.
    here are some other points; it has good bulk which means it will take more than the odd attack on the switch to take it down which helps compensate for some speed issues, its high health stat means that the recoil will be minimal, so it can comfortably take down four pokemon, three if you have a team with high health stats, before it dies from recoil. It also decimates slow teams, speaking from having a slow team, and it can break down stall pretty easily once you nail that prediction on alomomola or whatever and score a knock out.

    The scarf set is still pretty threatening, it two hits a fair portion of the metagame on the switch and outspeeds things which it otherwise couldnt beat with a choice band set.

    The choice scarf set surprised me with it's effectiveness and viability given emboar's more accurate physical moves and higher attack stat, but it's physical attacker checks get decimated and it hits every special wall super effectively with its stab moves.

    I'm not too much of a fan of the other sets, i find physical life orb takes too much recoil while the special life orb set is outclassed by houndoom. The berry sets seem niche, but also a bit hit and miss like acrobatics drifblim, which once it uses acrobatics and switches out, its a lot more harmless. Though i am wondering how and expert belt set could work, maybe a little bit like a life orb set but with no recoil and less power in some cases.

    Ever since it dropped in usage along with the likes of calm mind musharna a while ago, i'd been hoping they would stay low, but both are rising now and i find them troublesome. Why cant people just stick to gardevoir?
     
  36. Incon

    Incon I feel incapable of seeing the end.

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    The NU tier takes Pokemon that don't see usage and gives them an environment where they can shine. This thread spotlights some of these Pokemon and aims to discuss the positives and negatives of using it in the current metagame.

    For the fourth week of Pokemon of the Week, we will be spotlighting the ghostly girl: Misdreavus

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    60 | 60 | 60 | 85 | 85 | 85​

    Since the beginning of BW, Misdreavus has been a top tier defensive threat thanks to a great Ghost typing and the creation of Eviolite. The item boosted its mediocre defensive stats to great heights and has since been a great choice as a physical wall. Support moves such as Will-O-Wisp, Taunt and Heal Bell, as well as a form of healing in Pain Split further its defensive capabilities. Due to these perks, Misdreavus becomes one of the best counters to strong Fighting-types such as Sawk and Gurdurr as well as the premier spin blocker in the tier. A decent 85 Special Attack and Speed alongside amazing boosting moves in Nasty Plot and Calm Mind allow Misdreavus to run two effective offensive sets. Nasty Plot boosts its Special Attack by two stages allowing it to punch holes in unprepared teams while Calm Mind utilizes the same bulk as a defensive set but gives it better offensive presence. A reliable STAB in Shadow Ball and coverage moves in Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Fighting are common moves when opting for an offensive set.

    Teammates:
    Being that Misdreavus is the premier spin blocker in NU, it works quite well with hazard support. Golem, Rhydon, or Piloswine make good teammates as they can set up Stealth Rocks as well as deal with common Misdreavus counters such as Skuntank and Houndoom (Piloswine struggle against Houndoom, however). Cacturne, Garbodor, and Roselia all offer decent Spikes support that Misdreavus keeps safe on the field. Offensive sets appreciates these hazards as they increase Misdreavus's sweeping potential. Because it must run Eviolite, it appreciates Wish Support. Alomomola or Lickilicky make good teammates as they both pass massive wishes, while the latter synergizes nicely and also provides Heal Bell support for offensive sets.

    Drawbacks:
    While Misdreavus's Ghost-Typing gives it some great resistances and immunities, its biggest drawback is that it falls victim to Pursuit trapping. Pokemon such as Skuntank, Houndoom, and Drapion all deal with Misdreavus quite handily thanks to STAB boosted Pursuit. Houndoom receives an extra mention because he is immune to Will-O-Wisp while the others are crippled by the burn. Swellow does well against a defensive Misdreavus set as it can switch into any attack it has and hit hard back with a Guts boosted Brave Bird. Other strong Normal-Types receive free switch-ins such as Zangoose and Kangaskhan, but they must watch out for WoW. Offensive sets must rely on a lackluster 85 base Speed, making it outsped by fast offensive Pokemon such as Haunter and Charizard. It can set up a Substitute to help with revenge killing and to set up easier, however running Eviolite means that it doesn't have Leftover support, wearing it down quicker. Because of this, Misdreavus doesnt find too many opportunities to sweep but rather punches holes into the opposing team to allow for another Pokemon to sweep.

    [​IMG]

    So with that, lets discuss the impact Misdreavus has on the tier. Are there other Pokemon that synergize well with Misdreavus? What else counters Misdreavus, and how does it deal with said counters? What other Pokemon make good teammates for Misdreavus? Are there other moves or sets that Misdreavus can use to great success?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  37. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    Misdreavus's support movepool is amazing, and access to those boosting moves makes for a plethora of great sets that can turn a game around at any time.

    [​IMG] @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EV's: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spd
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Ground/Fighting
    - Thunderbolt

    I didn't want to post one of the boosting sets because there are a lot and I want to give other people a chance, but this set is pretty cool! Most of the Pokemon who switch into Misdreavus don't appreciate the Choice Specs because of their need to trap Misdreavus to help their team. Even if you do get trapped after Specs, you're usually able to set-up right afterwards. Ev's are straightforward, outspeed positive base 80s like Gardevoir and Mesprit, and the 42 HP gives it bulk while 252 SpA is obvious. Shadow Ball + Thunderbolt are its two strongest moves and hits different Pokemon well. HP Ground hits all the Pokemon who trap it, while Fighting hits Sawsbuck and things like that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  38. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    Hmm, i never have been a fan of eviolite in tiers outside LC, though missdrevous is good at what it does.
    Taunt and wilowisp damage walls, fighting types like non guts hariyama and the likes. As well as checking sawk it can take care of counters like vile plume.
    Heal bell is another great move.

    My only problem is its fmss, it is often forced to leave out the sub in subplit and cant run taunt, heal bell and wilowisp all at once.

    I once ran it with a team focused around subdrum charizard and subdrum linoone. Choice scarf plus trick and memento made for a number of set up opportunities.
     
  39. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Finchinator / Finch
    Misdreavus (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Shadow Ball
    - Pain Split
    - Taunt / Heal Bell

    Standard stallbreaker Misdreavus is very bulky and walls the common fighting types like Primeape, Gurdurr (to an extent), and most importantly - Sawk. Also, it's a nice switch in to most physical attacks with Will-O-Wisp and taunt to stop set-up-sweeping. Finally, it is hell for stall teams to face since it has reasonable speed, great bulk, taunt, and a status move / attack to wear walls out. I must say, Standard Stallbreaker Misdreavus is a great pokemon and a top-notch spinblocker in the NU tier!
     
  40. Accelgor

    Accelgor Active Member

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    PO Trainer Name:
    -Accelgor-
    [​IMG] (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot/Calm Mind
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Substitute/Will-O-Wisp/Hidden Power Ground/Hidden Power Fighting

    Boosting Misdreavus can also pose a severe threat to most teams since they expect it to be running the stallbreaker set posted by Finch above. With Eviolite and the given EVs, it gains some bulk and offense, respectively. The idea is for Misdreavus to come in on any Fighting type, Normal type (if locked into a move), Rapid Spin, or offensively weak pokemon and either set up a Substitute or start boosting with either Nasty Plot or Calm Mind. Nasty Plot is preferred due to it's immediate power, however Calm Mind is also an option for those who are defensively minded. Shadow Ball receives STAB and hits a good portion of the tier for neutral or super effective damage while Thunderbolt provides good and necessary coverage alongside Shadow Ball. The last move is merely a matter of choice and preference. Will-O-Wisp allows for Misdreavus to cripple physical attackers and Skuntank, who may switch in to try and Pursuit-trap Misdreavus. Hidden Power Ground hits Houndoom and Skuntank, it's primary trappers, for great damage and also maims pokemon like Probopass and Bastiodon. Hidden Power Fighting is another alternative, offering impeccable coverage alongside Shadow Ball.