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[Skeleton] Venusaur

Discussion in 'Gen 5 OU Analyses' started by Epikhairz, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    It's about time I got this done!

    [​IMG]

    ==General==:
    *Given a new lease on life in the OU tier through its amazing Dream World ability Chlorophyll
    *Excellent movepool makes Venusaur a monster in the sun
    *Many useful resistances to types such as Water and Fighting
    *Buffs to Growth and Sleep Powder make Venusaur a lot more powerful
    *Extremely vulnerable to other weather inducers as they nerf Growth and slow down Venusaur significantly

    ==Special Growth Sweeper==:
    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 72 HP / 4 Def / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
    - Hidden Power (Fire)

    Set Comments:
    *Speed reaches astounding levels in Sun
    *Defensive EVs allow Venusaur to take an Ice Shard from Adamant Mamoswine
    *Speed EVs allow Venusaur to outspeed common Choice Scarf users such as Terrakion
    *Growth gives it a +2 SAtk boost in one turn and gets it ready for a sweep
    *Giga Drain is a reliable STAB option that not only OHKO's most Water-types in the tier, but also heals Venusaur and lets it stay in to sweep longer
    *Sludge Bomb can be used for a reliable secondary STAB to hit anything that resists Grass
    *Sleep Powder can be used instead to put a Pokemon to sleep and render it useless for the entire match
    *Hidden Power Fire gives Venusaur nearly perfect coverage, allowing it to hit Steel-types which resist Giga Drain and are immune to Sludge Bomb

    ===Synergy===
    *Ninetales for Sun
    *Heatran can take on Venusaur's Psychic-, Ice-, and Flying-type weaknesses while also being able to absorb its Fire-type weakness to power its own Fire-type attacks
    *Dugtrio can trap Fire- and Rock-type Pokemon and is especially useful for trapping and killing Tyranitar to prevent Sun, as well as trapping the dreaded Heatran

    ==Sunny Day Support==
    Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd / 72 HP
    Timid Nature (-Atk, +Spd)
    - Sunny Day
    - Giga Drain / SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power (Fire)
    - Sleep Powder / Sludge Bomb

    Set Comments:
    *Acts as a Sun Support in case Ninetales happens to fall.
    *Sunny Day can not only be used for back-up Sun, it can also be used against incoming weather inducers to negate their weather inducing ability
    *Giga Drain is the primary STAB option like in the previous set, though SolarBeam can be considered as it is more powerful, and Venusaur can reliably set up its own Sun, though it won't heal Venusaur
    *Hidden Power Fire allows Venusaur to hit Steel-types hard, as well as any other type that resists Grass
    *Sleep Powder can be used to put a foe to sleep, rendering them useless for most of the match, and is preferred due to the semi-Support nature of this set
    *Sludge Bomb can be used instead for a reliable secondary STAB, as well as near-perfect neutral coverage
    *Heat Rock can be used instead of Black Sludge to keep the sun up longer, though this usually isn't necessary, as the main function of this set is to negate weather abilities from incoming weather inducers

    ===Synergy===
    *Ninetales for Sun
    *Heatran can take on Venusaur's Psychic-, Ice-, and Flying-type weaknesses while also being able to absorb its Fire-type weakness to power its own Fire-type attacks
    *Dugtrio can trap Fire- and Rock-type Pokemon and is especially useful for trapping and killing Tyranitar to prevent Sun, as well as trapping the dreaded Heatran
    *Because of the additional Sun support, Pokemon that can sweep in the Sun such as Volcarona are effective teammates
    *Because this set can be easily walled due to the lack of a boosting move, good wallbreakers such as Dragonite should be used to get rid of stall Pokemon

    ==SubSeed==:
    Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Sleep Powder
    - Hidden Power (Fire)

    Set Comments:
    *Though Venusaur is most well known for its offensive presence on the battlefield, its decent defensive stats also allow for it to run a SubSeed set
    *Chlorophyll makes it the fastest SubSeed user in the Sun
    *Able to absorb Toxic Spikes and resists Fighting-type attacks
    *Speed EVs allow Venusaur to outspeed base 130 Speed Pokemon such as Jolteon without Choice Scarf
    *Sleep Powder allows Venusaur to incapacitate an opposing Pokemon, giving it a free turn to set up Substitute
    *Substitute allows Venusaur to block any crippling status such as paralysis
    *Leech Seed gives Venusaur reliable passive recovery to heal off the Substitute damage
    *Hidden Power Fire allows Venusaur to hit the Grass-type Pokemon which are immune to Leech Seed quite hard

    ===Synergy===
    *Ninetales for Sun
    *Heatran can take on Venusaur's Psychic-, Ice-, and Flying-type weaknesses while also being able to absorb its Fire-type weakness to power its own Fire-type attacks
    *Dugtrio can trap Fire- and Rock-type Pokemon and is especially useful for trapping and killing Tyranitar to prevent Sun, as well as trapping the dreaded Heatran

    ==Checks & Counters==
    *Sleep Powder makes it extremely hard to effectively counter Venusaur, as it can put its hard counters and checks to sleep and prevent it from doing anything
    *Heatran completely walls all of Venusaur's sets, being immune to Hidden Power Fire and Sludge Bomb, and can hit with a STAB supereffective Fire-type move.
    *Any weather inducers are a problem for Venusaur, as they cripple its Speed and nerf Growth significantly

    ==Other Options==
    *A Physical Growth set can be used, though Venusaur's physical movepool is significantly lacking in good moves compared to its special movepool, and Power Whip is illegal with Chlorophyll
    *A Mixed Growth set could be used as well, though its really only used for Earthquake to hit Heatran
    *Earthquake and Hidden Power Ice on a Growth set provide nearly perfect coverage to anything, except the extremely rare UU Bronzong
    *Venusaur has good enough bulk to utilize Synthesis effectively, though it can't seem to fit into any moveslots.
    *A -Sleep Powder / Giga Drain / Earthquake / Hidden Power Ice set- can be run to use Sleep Powder to nail a switch-in instead of using up a turn to set up Growth, and can also nail Heatran and other common checks and counters of Venusaur

    [/HIDE]

    I'll admit, I got the EV spread from Smogon for the first two sets, so I'll give them creds there :/. Anything else that needs to be added? I tried the Synergy section for the first time, so it may not be perfect. Feedback there would be very much appreciated. Also, my OO and C&C are looking pretty lackluster but I'm just out of ideas after what happened below this sentence.

    Holy crap I lost all my work when Google Chrome decided to crash on me when I was almost done. I worked extra hard on this :/.

    And one last question - should I add Mixed Growth as a set or just keep it in OO? I know it says it needs it on the Wiki, but I'm just not a big fan of that set.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  2. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I wouldn't say splitting EVs was all too necessary. Mixed Growth only really uses Earthquake for Heatran, doesn't it? At +2, I'd be stunned if that took ANY EVs to OHKO it.

    The Heat Rock on the Sunny Day support set is probably worth a mention, even though the set's main purpose is to clear the weather rather than to make the sun last longer. The SubSeed set seems to be missing 20 EVs as well. Probably on the Special Defence?

    Oh, and no mention of Synthesis anywhere? With Venusaur's bulk, it can make good use of it.
     
  3. Captain

    Captain Suns Out Guns Out

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    I would mention Earthquake/HP ice in other options as the coverage after growth is only walled by bronzong who is extremely rare.
    Nails Heatran.
     
  4. Laurel

    Laurel Well-Known Member

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    I don't even know if I'd mention subseed I've never seed it used. Definitely mention Earthquake with a -SpD nature because it needs Defense to live Scizor Bullet Punches. EQ can nail tran which allows you to not use dugtrio on a lot of sun builds.
     
  5. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    @Spoovo - ah yes you're right. Splitting EVs may not be as necessary in MixGrowth, though the Mixed Growth I'm familiar with is Growth / Seed Bomb / Earthquake / Hidden Power Ice, though now that I think about it, Seed Bomb sux. I'll add the Heat Rock and mention Synthesis in OO.

    @Captain - will add

    @Pkftmfw - Well, it was in the original Wiki page, so I just wanted to pay homage :/. It's definitely effective, though rarely used as everyone prefers Special Growth. And for the -SDef thing, are you talking about a specific set?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  6. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    SubSeed is actually a really good set, just really underrated. Dugtrio is a great teammate, but you forgot the most important job Duggy does for Venusaur: killing Heatran. Rather than the Growth set, Venusaur can try to sweep with EQ/HP Ice/Sleep Powder/Giga Drain like Captain mentioned. I've seen this set put in a lot of work on non-Duggy teams. Also, I'd increase the speed on the Sweeper set so you outspeed Scarf Latios.
     
  7. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    Forgot about putting Heatran even tho rly obvious :/. Will add. Also, for the set you mentioned, I would replace Sleep Powder with Growth just for the boost and reliability, so it'd be kinda like the Mixed Growth set I mentioned earlier, though I will put your set w/o Growth in OO. And about the Speed, I'm pretty sure it already outspeeds Scarf Latios, even with Timid Nature.
     
  8. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    The EVs on Venusaur outspeed Latios already, smh Zoro.

    Approving.
     
  9. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    Tyvm Finch :D. Any other QCs got anything to add?
     
  10. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    *BUMP*. Any other QCs wanna give feedback and/or approve?