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[BW2] The 3 Broken Pokes

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Side Metagames' started by Celebi., Jul 29, 2013.

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  1. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    Well I'm here today to tell you the story of the 3 broken pokes in Clear Skies. Manaphy. Genesct. Thundurus. They all deserve suspect threads. The only reason they aren't used it because when people say Clear Skies is "OU with no auto weather" people assume the Wifi OU banlist. Clear Skies isn't a popular tier to begin with and it doesn't help that a lot of people don't care enough to research.

    Let's Begin with Manaphy.

    Name: Manaphy
    Type: Water
    Stats: 100/100/100/100/100/100
    Key Moves: Tail Glow, Energy Ball, Rest, Ice Beam, Hidden Power, Surf, and Signal Beam.
    This adorable little... thing, makes it's return from 4th gen where it was banned to Ubers without perma rain. When 5th gen and perma rain came along Manaphy stayed in it's home in Ubers. However with the addition of the Clear Skies tier Manaphy found it's way back down into competitive "OU" play. The lack of perma rain made it seem like Manaphy wouldn't be broken, but this is not the case. Manaphy still remains broken for the same reasons it was in 4th gen. Access to Tail Glow gives Manaphy the ability to Skyrocket her (I'm going to call it her despite the no gender) massive Sp.A stat. This can be taken advantage of in many ways. You can further invest in Bulk making Manaphy more difficult to take out. After a Tail Glow with no special investment Manaphy reaches a threatening 590 Sp.A. With Special investement she reaches an even more frightening 747. This is combination with great speed (reaching 328 more often than not, and 299), amazing stats and incredible defensive typing make Manaphy quite the powerhouse. Not to mention Manaphy's plenty of opportunities to set up. Nothing will appreciate anything coming from Manaphy. Nothing really wants to switch in (not mentioning dedicated Special Walls like Blissey and Chansey) in fear of being absolutely annihilated. Now with this amazing set up move in Tail Glow Manaphy has a great movepool to abuse it with.
    Manaphy @ Life Orb
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Tail Glow
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Energy Ball / Signal Beam
    - Ice Beam
    This set makes great use of Manaphy's movepool. Surf for an incredibly powerful STAB move, Ice Beam for great coverage, and the last slot comes down to what you need to hit based on your team. Energy Ball destroys Gastrodon, Jellicent, Quagsire, and Rotom-W, while Hidden Power Fire can be used to annihilate Ferrothorns that assume that can stay in safely (Ice Beam already 2hko's standard). Signal Beam can be used if you really want something for Celebi and other Psychics (which Surf/Ice Beam already hit plenty hard). Manaphy can even work Choiced sets with U-Turn for Scarfed sets and Specs sets have the great movepool. Manaphy can even run a ChestoResto set with Tail Glow, Surf, and Ice Beam.
    When it comes to teammates for Manaphy, she enjoy paralysis, screen support, something to take grass/electric attacks, momentum, and something to take what it "can't" (this depends on the set you run). Magnezone is an excellent teammate for Manaphy. Magnezone can trap and beat Ferrothorn 1 on 1, dent Jellicent, easily dispose of Gyarados (can be somewhat troubling), set up screens reliably, give momentum with Volt Switch, and can take hits from things that can hit Manaphy hard. Celebi is also an amazing partner for Manaphy as Celebi can spread paralysis, give momentum with U-Turn, take any attack aimed and Manaphy, and use Perish Song to force switches and open opportunities for Manaphy to switch in. Thundurus is an excellent partner for Manaphy as they can both abuse rain, Thundurus cripples defensive pokes, spread paralysis, gain momentum with Volt Switch/U-Turn, and can dent anything that might be troubling for Manaphy. And lastly (because this could go on all day long) Genesect. Genesect can dent everything that might give Manaphy trouble, U-Turn can be used for momentum, and a physical version can be used to help the weakness Manaphy has to some special walls. Manaphy's teammates can range from Murkrow and Sableye to Espeon and Cresselia. Hazards are a great help, not to give Manaphy more KO's, but to put pressure on the opposing team because of all the switches she can cause. The possibilities are endless.
    At the end of the day when it comes to taking Manaphy out your options are severely limited. It generally ends up with can you hit it hard enough with your revenge killer. If paralysis support is properly used there is no way to revenge kill her and not much can take a hit after Tail Glow and if they do, chances are they won't be able to KO due to her amazing bulk.[/HIDE]

    Name: Genesect
    Type: Bug/Steel
    Stats: 71/120/95/120/95/99
    Key Moves: Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Bug Buzz, U-Turn, Psychic Shift Gear, Blaze Kick, Extremespeed, Iron Head, X-Scissor, Rock Polish, Hidden Power, Giga Drain, and Explosion.
    Well. This crazy bug is back again and even more powerful than ever because of the lack of auto weather. These auto weather abilities had lots of side effects and abusers that could keep Genesect at bay, but now we these gone and a new moveset, Genesect becomes even more threatening. The standard Scarf set is slightly worse than it used to be before. No rain means Flamethrower won't be weakened. No sun means no Venusaur/Sawsbuck to outspeed. While Genesect still keeps the crippling base 99 speed, it is still and incredible threat. The Special Scarf set and the Rock Polish sets are still threatening but now Genesect is a new monster with Shift Gear. Respectable bulk and outstanding typing gives it plenty of opportunities to set up and Genesect can run a Mixed or Physical set after. Because we all know about the older RP and Special Scarfed sets I'm going to be focusing mainly on Shift Gear.
    Genesect @ Life Orb/Leftovers
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Sp.A or 4 HP
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Shift Gear
    - Iron Head
    - Blaze Kick
    - Extremespeed/Giga Drain/Ice Beam (or a crapload of stuff)
    This Genesect is quite threatening. +2 Speed and +1 Attack and this thing will be hard to control. Iron Head and Blaze Kick go for good enough coverage in Clear Skies and the last move is honestly a complete toss up. Anything can go in this last slot. This Genesect is walled by bulky waters and Giga Drain can somewhat ease that pain (and recover lost health from Life Orb). Ice Beam works well for Dragons and ensures more KO's than Iron Head does. Rock support is crucial for this Genesect along with something to take out bulky water types and Heatran. While significantly easier to wall than Manaphy with the right pokemon out of the way this particular Genesect can be even more deadly. The mixed Shift Gear set only really differs in EV's (depending on what the person wants). Ice Beam becomes more mandatory. Genesect can also run a mixed/special/physical LO 4 attacks set (Band and Specs are also viable). This increased versatility makes Genesect that much harder to wall, counter, and even check. You can fit Genesect seamlessly into teams. Until Genesect's moveset is revealed you have no idea how you are going to deal with it (excluding things like faster scarfs).
    When it comes to teammates Genesect and Manaphy have a lot in common. They both appreciate paralysis, hazards, screens, and momentum. Heatran works well as he powers up from Fire attacks. Celebi and Thundurus can spread paralysis for Genesect. The checks and counters are very different for every Genesect so there is no way I can really list teammates that way. Whatever coverage move you don't carry you have a teammate to fill that role. [/HIDE]

    And lastly, Thundurus.
    Name: Thundurus-Incarnate
    Type: Electric/Flying
    Stats: 79/115/70/125/80/111
    Key Moves: Taunt, Thunderbolt, Rain Dance, Thunder, Thunder Wave, Hidden Power, Superpower, Volt Switch, U-Turn (I've only used two sets with this so I don't really know).
    This thing is here and was recently banned in Wifi OU and not because it could throw out 100% accurate STAB Thunders in the "permanent rain" (even then, Damp Rock + Rain Dance). This thing serves as an excellent wallbreaker, sweeper, stallbreaker, crippler, and even rain setter. It has an amazing STAB move in Thunderbolt, and one of the best abilities in the game in Prankster. Thunder Wave cripples everything as nothing can avoid getting paralyzed because of Prankster. Taunt makes hazards, walls, and some parts of stall nonexistent. Base 111 Speed and 125 Sp.A and 115 attack make a mixed sweeper quite viable, but the biggest selling point is Prankster Thunder Wave. This was one of the biggest reasons it was banned in OU so why is it allowed in Clear Skies? It makes no sense to me. With more devastating abusers in Manaphy and Genesect, Thundurus can prove even more deadly that it did in OU. I'm not really going to say much about Thundurus besides that because that's why it was banned in OU in the first place. Clear Skies should be no different. Thundurus' favorite teammates are paralysis abusers, spinners, and things that can switch into common attacks.[/HIDE]

    These things really break the tier. It's a shame not many people know about it. 3 pokes banned in OU are back in a very similar tier and for what reason? Genesect appreciates no auto weather, Thundurus works the exact same, and Manaphy just straight up wrecks the tier. Rain isn't needed for that. All of these pokes were Uber for a reason and being in Clear Skies makes virtually no difference.

    EDIT: Idk why that thumbnail is there. Idk how to get rid of it.
     

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  2. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    Ughhhhhh. That's really frustrating... can't you, sulcata, and whoever the other tier leader is discuss this? Maybe make a decision between you three?
     
  3. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    Xdevo pretty much said it. We advertised it on the server, mentioned it during scripted server tours, etc. Long story short, nobody cared, and that can only let us assume that they are not broken. Rebanning Pokemon after nobody decided to argue with anything but theorymon is just poor tier leadership. I doubt there will be enough people posting to get anything done, but if there are then maybe something will happen.
     
  4. Scene

    Scene reverie

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    we all know nobody cares about CS, note why I supported removing it altogether (what happened about that actually). Tour players don't care and the ladder is dead, so it's not played enough by dedicated people for anyone to bother. If it was a kind of "send in three sentences for voting ban/keep, we'll allow your vote based on merit" kind of thing you'd get some activity from tours with some advertising, but you can hardly expect much from this unloved tier
     
  5. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    Yeah by Gen 6, CS should be gone IMO, so have fun with the broken,ons while you still can :3. In the unlikely event that CS is not removed, I will personally push for its removal.
     
  6. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    We did suspect for all three of them. Manaphy got 2 theorymon posts saying that it can't use Rest, me saying that it was broken, and then another theorymon post. Genesect got a total of 2 posts, one of which was just pointing out that the other post was theorymon. Thundurus got a grand total of 0 posts. If you want to know why they are here, there is no one to blame aside from the lazy as fuck userbase.

    Clear Skies was reset to OU + Excadrill and Tornadus-T (without weather inducing abilities of course), and it made the server crash.

    My post now bitch
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2013
  7. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    Clear Skies was reset to OU + Excadrill and Tornadus-T (without weather inducing abilities of course), and it made the server crash. A lot of posts in the subforum were very unnecessary and were basically just echoing what Xdevo and I had already stated (to an extent I'll say mine was probably also poor and just echoing Xdevo's post). The other posts were also incredibly off topic. This thread was about suspecting Gensect, Manaphy, and Thundurus-I, and not about how Clear Skies is a dead tier. While Xdevo and I may have set the tone with our posts, we were providing explanation as to why these Pokemon haven't received suspect discussions until Celebi. brought it up.

    My post~
     
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