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[BW2] BW LU - A Look Back

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by AmourShipper, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. AmourShipper

    AmourShipper meh i'm bored

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    AmourShipper
    Credits to MeowMix who stole it from Smogon

    With Pokemon X and Y, in other words the sixth generation, coming in just a month, I think it's about time we look back at the LU metagame from its start. LU, having just become a tier this generation, has changed a lot since its inception; from Pokemon rising tiers, UU dropouts, suspect testing, and the BW-BW2 transition. With that, I'd like to see some reflections on LU as a whole. Some players have been here from the start, whereas many have just joined the tier, while some are in a middle ground. Some might prefer different rounds of the metagame, and responses from the playerbase is a great way to chronicle the tier that is BW LU. These questions are a guideline; you can answer all or pick and choose, and feel free to post on your thoughts on the tier as well.

    1. When did you start playing LU, and what spurred you to start?

    2. Which metagame stage do you believe is the most balanced/healthiest? The least balanced/healthiest?

    3. Which metagame stage was your favorite? Your least favorite?

    4. Which Pokemon do you believe had the biggest impact on the tier? Which Pokemon do you believe were/are the most dangerous?

    5. What metagame trends have you noticed being prominent in the tier since you started playing? What playstyles and Pokemon have come and gone in and out of style?

    6. What do you feel should have been banned? What do you feel shouldn't have been banned?

    7. What is the toughest match you've had? Logs or replays would be cool as well.

    8. What are your personal highlights in BW LU?

    I'll answer these myself later. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts!
     
  2. Um Hello?

    Um Hello? Member

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    1. When did you start playing LU, and what spurred you to start?

    Early 2013, after peaking NU ladder I felt like trying a different 'low' tier, LU was the obvious choice I guess.

    2. Which metagame stage do you believe is the most balanced/healthiest? The least balanced/healthiest?

    Meta is pretty nice right now, tbh. Torn meta wasn't.

    3. Which metagame stage was your favorite? Your least favorite?

    Still now, and Torn/NQueen weren't very fun for me.

    4. Which Pokemon do you believe had the biggest impact on the tier? Which Pokemon do you believe were/are the most dangerous?

    Keeps going back to Torn and Nidoqueen!

    5. What metagame trends have you noticed being prominent in the tier since you started playing? What playstyles and Pokemon have come and gone in and out of style?

    Full stall is not at all common, but is fun to try every now and then, I tend to see a lot of balance or offense though.

    6. What do you feel should have been banned? What do you feel shouldn't have been banned?

    -

    7. What is the toughest match you've had? Logs or replays would be cool as well.

    8. What are your personal highlights in BW LU?

    The battles that are fun or funny to me, whether due to hax at perfect moments or just using a stupid set that worked out.
     
  3. Tyki

    Tyki Change

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    1. When did you start playing LU, and what spurred you to start?
    When I joined PO pretty much, so late 2011. I wanted to try out all of the tiers xD

    2. Which metagame stage do you believe is the most balanced/healthiest? The least balanced/healthiest?
    Most balanced was late BW IMO, before the B2W2 changes kicked in. Cofag w/o new movepool was really fun. Least balanced was Sand meta by far.

    3. Which metagame stage was your favorite? Your least favorite?
    Late BW again. Trick Room was so OP. Least favorite was early B2W2 w/o Qwilfish.

    4. Which Pokemon do you believe had the biggest impact on the tier? Which Pokemon do you believe were/are the most dangerous?
    Nidoqueen. That thing defined what could and couldn't work in the tier. Most dangerous recently probably Moltres, Cresselia, Torn and Meloetta. The ones wayyy before those were too many to count.

    5. What metagame trends have you noticed being prominent in the tier since you started playing? What playstyles and Pokemon have come and gone in and out of style?
    Hyper offense has always been huge. Trick room used to be really good, but now it isn't as popular. Stall was good before Nidoqueen but hasn't come back.

    6. What do you feel should have been banned? What do you feel shouldn't have been banned?
    Can't speak on this yet ;)

    7. What is the toughest match you've had? Logs or replays would be cool as well.
    n/a

    8. What are your personal highlights in BW LU?
    Getting tier leader ofc :D
     
  4. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    1. When did you start playing LU, and what spurred you to start?
    I started in late February 2011, playing the teambats Project NU was doing. Did so because I had started to get tired of the UU metagame of the time which was relatively unbalanced.

    2. Which metagame stage do you believe is the most balanced/healthiest? The least balanced/healthiest?
    I haven't been playing all the way through, but my favourite was definitely May through August 2011. That was the time where I felt most playstyles truly were not only viable, but on equal footing. The Sand/TR/Honchkrow meta was pretty bad. Also the short-lived prevalence of hail was annoying, because I hate hail with a passion.

    3. Which metagame stage was your favorite? Your least favorite?
    Already answered.

    4. Which Pokemon do you believe had the biggest impact on the tier? Which Pokemon do you believe were/are the most dangerous?
    Slowking and I don't think it's even debatable, honestly. After the second month of usage stats it consistently dominated until very recently and is still up there. Even though it's not as big of a deal as it used to be now days, due to the more offensive nature of the current metagame, it single-handedly determined what special attackers were viable, as well as a fair few physical attackers. It's no coincidence that almost anything offensive that's in LU carries something that's SE on it and/or 2HKOs it.

    Most dangerous was probably Cress, although Sharpedo was a monster in LU while it was around.

    5. What metagame trends have you noticed being prominent in the tier since you started playing? What playstyles and Pokemon have come and gone in and out of style?
    Well, as I said I haven't played though every single metagame, but I'd say the tier definitely has gotten more offensive than it used to be. As for pokes going in and out of style I'd say Aggron, Escavalier and Bouffalant. They're all victims of the times. All three worked best in LU's slower, more defensive stage and have dropped in popularity since, even though they can still work.

    6. What do you feel should have been banned? What do you feel shouldn't have been banned?
    Slowking when it was originally suspected. Sadly, I'm to blame for it not being banned as I didn't bother voting, because I had exams and thought it was going to be voted out anyways. It would probably have been retested and reintroduced successfully into the tier later on though, so I doubt it bears an impact on today's metagame. I was also one of the few people who thought Honchkrow was broken from what I recall. Thankfully it moved up right away. As for things that shouldn't have been banned, maybe Durant. I wasn't really playing LU a lot when it was initially banned, but from the little experience I had with it in LU I didn't feel it was broken.

    7. What is the toughest match you've had? Logs or replays would be cool as well.
    My hard-drive has crashed since then, so I have no log, but the best battle in LU I can recall was against some person on ladder named "Iliketurtles" or something. I think I was using balance and he/she was using semistall and the game was filled with quite a few good plays on both sides which we both were commenting on during the match. I believe I lost in the end with some minor hax which was bound to happen after 99 turns.

    8. What are your personal highlights in BW LU?
    Probably the fact that I affected the metagame a fair deal in the early stages despite not being a tier leader or anything of the sort. Also the fact that during the period I listed as my favourite I built like 6 great and successful teams that were nothing like eachother and the fact that I was actually a pretty good player back then.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  5. Celestial Phantom

    Celestial Phantom YAHA

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    1. When did you start playing LU, and what spurred you to start?
    Mid 2012 during the first PO World Cup, started pretty much after watching Champions Iris and The Real Elmo have a good back and forth match. There was a lack of hax, lack of weather, mainly outplaying each other and having the better pokemon team. It felt like what pokemon was supposed to be to me.

    2. Which metagame stage do you believe is the most balanced/healthiest? The least balanced/healthiest?

    Agreeing with Tyki is the Late BW meta around when I started, especially since things haven't been the most /balanced/ since the start of BW2 and all the changes/retests we've had.

    3. Which metagame stage was your favorite? Your least favorite?

    Favorite again when I started so late BW, but I didn't mind the early BW2 stuff after you learned how to use a few of the new toys we got. Least favorite was Cresselia retest in LU back in November/December 2012. Never again...PLEASE TYKI, DEVO, ELMO NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!

    4. Which Pokemon do you believe had the biggest impact on the tier? Which Pokemon do you believe were/are the most dangerous?

    I believe that Nidoqueen by far has had the biggest impact on the tier since nothing wants to face this pokemon. Most dangerous...eh I have like a 5 way tie on this. I could argue that: Moltres, Durant, Meloetta, Nidoqueen, and Tornadus are/were the most dangerous since I've started playing this tier. Most annoying though was Cresselia.

    5. What metagame trends have you noticed being prominent in the tier since you started playing? What playstyles and Pokemon have come and gone in and out of style?
    Balanced Offensive giving way to more HO style offenses, as well when queen left we saw a temporary resurgence of Defensive style teams. When I started, Trick Room was pretty much the thing to run. Cofagrigus, Amoonguss, Aggron, and Slowking were regs on teams. As for pokemon, a lot of things that have fallen to NU over the last year with more certain things falling from UU to LU. They've started to get outclassed big time and were waiting to fall. Example: Bisharp>Absol and other similar cases.

    6. What do you feel should have been banned? What do you feel shouldn't have been banned?

    I feel everything that has been banned, had a legitimate claim to being banned, it's just things changed enough they work without being overpowered as much anymore. As for what should have been banned, I don't know really, but I do support a potential Moltres ban as the suspect goes on.

    7. What is the toughest match you've had? Logs or replays would be cool as well.

    No logs, but whenever I have a match against The Real Elmo, New Breed, Bad Romance, Luck>Skill or Meeps will always be a tough match up. I do bet that 3/5th of these people hate me for the kind of teams I run (or have helped people make, GO CASEDVICTORY!), but I always look forward to matches against these guys.

    8. What are your personal highlights in BW LU?
    Just being able to play the tier and play at a consistent enough level. I've gotten to the top 2 multiple times on the ladder and such, but have never captured that top spot either due to hax or a lack of effort to overthrow the guy ahead of me (mostly meeps b/c he has too much time and a lack of life). Maybe I can change this just once before we finish up with the tier this gen while it's active.
     
  6. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    1. When did you start playing LU, and what spurred you to start?

    Whenever the first teambat was that featured the UU of UU. So like February of 2011 or so.

    2. Which metagame stage do you believe is the most balanced/healthiest? The least balanced/healthiest?

    Personally, my favorite metagame was in July of 2011. I feel like this was one of the very few times where all playstyles were on extremely even footing in terms of usefulness and success. Other people say the metagame was extremely stale, but I loved every minute of it.

    The least healthy would have to be either the starting metagame (Cress, Celebi, etc) or the Sand meta with Honch, Virizion, and Durant (the second time iirc).

    3. Which metagame stage was your favorite? Your least favorite?

    The regen core metagame by a pretty good margin, though the current one is really good as well.

    My least favorites were the Hail and Sand metagames.

    4. Which Pokemon do you believe had the biggest impact on the tier? Which Pokemon do you believe were/are the most dangerous?

    No Pokemon can hold the title of most influential besides Slowking. Averaging an impressive 18.94% usage for the entire metagame (thanks vuvu), Slowking has always been the go-to Special Wall or bulky pivot. The slightly newer Specs and offensive sets gave Slowking even more relevance in an increasingly offensive metagame. Tangrowth and Nidoqueen get honorable mentions for their respective effects.

    There are and were a lot of dangerous Pokemon in LU, Moltres, Durant, Virizion, Cobalion, Druddigon, and nameless others that have gone in and out of the tier as well, though the most dangerous thing ever in LU would probably be Cresselia.

    5. What metagame trends have you noticed being prominent in the tier since you started playing? What playstyles and Pokemon have come and gone in and out of style?

    When the metagame started, it was really hard to not use Offensive or Balanced, since there was random shit all over the ladder, though Cress tended toward balanced teams. After the first few months (about right after Rhyperior's ban), Stall became increasingly popular, and the tier really allowed for all of the team styles to shine. Slowly, the combination of new drops in Hail, and the increase of new drops from UU lead to a more offensive metagame, which meant that more things would be unbanned because they weren't as good in an offensive metagame, which over time destroyed actual stall teams. After a few more rises, and a ban (Tornadus), Defensive teams tried to make a comeback, but pretty much failed.

    6. What do you feel should have been banned? What do you feel shouldn't have been banned?

    Oh god, there are so many things. Honchkrow, Virizion, Hail (the first time), some form of Sand, Moltres should have waited a good while longer for its second retest, Celebi, Tornadus should have never been unbanned, Cress didn't deserve a test at all.

    I'm not super confident on the Omastar ban, though at the time most people actually did support the ban. I actually didn't think Meloetta was all that broken, but I completely understand the ban, and I don't plan on retesting it.

    Shell Smash + Baton Pass was a stupid complex ban that took place without any sort of forum discussion and should be removed as soon as possible.

    7. What is the toughest match you've had? Logs or replays would be cool as well.

    I don't have terribly many logs, but there are a few gems somewhere.

    8. What are your personal highlights in BW LU?

    Leading a tier almost from start to finish, watching it change and grow alongside the community around it. Despite some bullshit along the way, I really feel that this tier is what kept me in PO for so long.


    I'll finish the rest later, just wanted to start before classes~
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  7. Mysterion

    Mysterion Never give up

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    1. When did you start playing LU, and what spurred you to start?
    I started playing at the end of the BW era. I liked the versatile metagame very much, so I stayed in this tier.

    2. Which metagame stage do you believe is the most balanced/healthiest? The least balanced/healthiest?
    I guess the metagame of the late BW era was the best. Back then there have been a lot of good playstyles, like Stall, Balanced, TR, which vanished later. I guess the least balanced was the whole Nidoqueen Metagame, simply cause HO teams dominated every other playstyle, specially stall was near to never used.

    3. Which metagame stage was your favorite? Your least favorite?
    1st question I already answered before. But my least favourite is by far the Cresselia stage. A Pokemon which can wall like every Pokemon in the tier is simpy not healthy.

    4. Which Pokemon do you believe had the biggest impact on the tier? Which Pokemon do you believe were/are the most dangerous?
    I would say Slowking and Nidoqueen had a huge impact on the metagame. Like others already said, Slowking has always been a top tier threat. Although it isn't as good as it was in the past, when it could check like everything in the tier, it is still a great Pokemon. The role of Nidoqueen I already explained. For ~1year it dominated the whole metagame. It could do everything, has a huge power, a good bulk, can setup hazards and has an amazing offensive movepool. Dangerous Pokes the people before already listened, I can agree to most of them.

    5. What metagame trends have you noticed being prominent in the tier since you started playing? What playstyles and Pokemon have come and gone in and out of style?
    Like I already said stall was gone, when Nidoqueen came and although it isn't in the tier for some time anymore, stall couldn't come back yet. Also the TR teams from my early time in the tier aren't that prominent anymore.

    6. What do you feel should have been banned? What do you feel shouldn't have been banned?
    I think Nidoqueen should have been banned much earlier, simply cause of it's huge impact. But else everything in the tier is okay.

    7. What is the toughest match you've had? Logs or replays would be cool as well.
    I still remember a great ladder battle versus The Real Elmo, from more than 1 year ago. Both of us had a regen core, which was very prominent back then and the whole battle lasted more than 200 turns iirc. Else I had some great matches with New Breed in the past, maybe I can find some logs.

    8. What are your personal highlights in BW LU?
    Probably the tier itself.
     
  8. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Necrobump Pt II

    3. Which metagame stage was your favorite? Your least favorite?

    GOLURK + DRUDD

    6. What do you feel should have been banned? What do you feel shouldn't have been banned?

    Druddigon - This is a tricky one, whilst Druddigon was most likely broken, I felt that his ability to Check a bunch of things made the tier healthier and more enjoyable, though can't fault TLs for their decision.

    Krookodile - I should've pushed for a suspect on this, but didn't think to at the time. Krook had the incredible dual STAB of Dark/Ground, hitting everything in the tier for neutral damage, hit a nice Speed tier at 92, just faster than Rotom, and then of course the pwrfl ability in Moxie to allow it to steamroll through teams. Since the usual way to beat Scarf was to keep 1 Dark resist and 1 Ground resist alive, non Choiced sets started to become popular, preying upon people thinking it was Choice Locked into something they could tank, and letting it grab an extra Moxie boost, reducing its number of Checks further.

    It had 1 common Counter in Tangrowth which could tank any hit, and Alomomola though it was less common, but I wouldn't say thats enough to justify keeping it in the tier.

    Durant - Probs should've pushed for this too (i think it was suspected at some point tho? cant remember), Thunder Fang / X Scissor / Iron Head / Superpower was basically unwallable on the CB set, and Hustle made it ridiculously strong. Steel typing and good Def meant it could come in on a lot of things, then it had base 109 Speed which was incredible in LU, being outsped by very few things.

    Only bad thing about it was poor Sp Def and Hustle caused misses, but it was still insanely strong.
     
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