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Discussion in 'Active Themes' started by Fuzzysqurl, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    A thread about default. The only thread now. Any issues about the theme shall be posted here from now on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  2. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    Default, the theme that all other themes are based off of.

    Default, where the new come to learn.

    The most Beast theme on the server next to KH and Capcom.

    Having trouble understand mafia? This is the theme for you. The roles are straight forward and tell you exactly what they do.

    Village is taking on the Mafia, but be careful there is a WereWolf running around eating anyone they can get their hands on!
     
  3. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    1) This theme, like the name suggests, is simplistic in every aspect, but that's what makes it great! If you're new to #Mafia and wish to learn the ropes, then this is the theme for you!

    2) lolitsdefault

    3) It's the ultimate Village vs. Mafia battle for control over the town! Will the village be able to defend themselves? Or will one of the two Mafia factions take over? And don't forget about the elusive Godfather or WereWolf, who can surprise you in the end and take over!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
  4. Yttrium

    Yttrium Well-Known Member Developer Developer

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    "Welcome to Mafia, the game where the village tries to oust the mafia, whether Italian or French Canadian! Make sure to remove the lone Werewolf as well and beware the Godfather with his mighty 2 kills per night! Follow the intelligence of the Inspector, or maybe the Samurai's blade of justice."

    I just hope for something better than "Consider adding a summary field to this theme that describes the setting of the game and points out the odd quirks of the theme!" and "Default mafia theme, the people of our fine village are being threatened by the mafia. ...."
     
  5. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    The original theme. Villagers team up with bodyguard, inspector, pretty lady and more against the killer mafia! Werewolf or Godfather are usually available as a dangerous third side. If the samurai is in, watch for his revealing daykill!
     
  6. Scatterbrain

    Scatterbrain You only live once*

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    I'm sorry that this is longer than expected, but there's no other way to simply explain all the roles.

    An isolated village in the middle of nowhere is being ambushed! The French Canadian Mafia and Italian Mafia are out to take control of the village, while the Werewolf quietly watches...dispatching whoever decides to distract it! On the side of the village, the Inspector can reveal someone's role, but must be cautious of the suspicious Millers running loose! The Samurai can slice through his opposition during the day, while the Bodyguard must protect one of them from death at night! Finally, the legendary Godfather, who is accompanied only by himself, can eliminate two of his targets! In the midst of it all, the clumsy Conspirator, who gets lynched any time he's voted, wins with any side but the Werewolf, in order to add to all the chaos!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  7. Zony11

    Zony11 New Member

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    The most basic Mafia Theme. The Mafia is out to kill while the Village tries to take them down.
     
  8. Scatterbrain

    Scatterbrain You only live once*

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    ww doesn't have team-reveal and it should have his kill's target set to anybutself. thanks
     
  9. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne macaron

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    The Mafia has decided to target this Village after defeating many others. Unbeknownst to them, however, the Village has specialized roles of all kinds, and has a plan to get back at the Mafia! Secretly, behind the scenes, there lurks a Werewolf, who wants to eat everyone up! Can you change the tides of fate?
     
  10. Ninja Assassin

    Ninja Assassin New Member

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    MAFIA summary

    The mafia is lurking near the village ! Will you rise up to the challenge as the village or will the Mafia assassinate you all ?There's also a werewolf lurking though no one has seen it !
     
  11. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Summary: Welcome to default! In this game, you'll be keeping the scummy Italian Mafia, creepy French Canadian Mafia, and the vicious Werewolf away with the power of inspection and beauty! Don't forget about the Godfather who could potentially ruin all of your fun. Will you survive?

    As for the theme itself, it's clearly unbalanced when you look at the windata. My suggestion would be to add a 3rd Mafia: the Russian Mafia.
     
  12. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I took it upon myself to try to change and balance the theme a bit:
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Aa3aqM7A

    Notable Changes
    • French Canadian Mafia has been changed to the Russian Mafia.
    • The Don Mafia cannot be haxed.
    • Werewolf now has a new partner for bigger games: The Mega Werewolf. Same as the normal Werewolf but it cannot be killed at night.
    • Godfather now has a new partner: Godfather's Votebomb. If voted, first and last person to vote it will perish with it. If the Godfather goes first, it gains a kill.
    • Spawn list has been altered for a stronger Mafia presence.
     
  13. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    Please post this in Mafia Review.
    ...That's the place for reviewing, after all.
     
  14. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I asked about that with Roild before posting here. It shall be put into a new thread when I get the chance.
     
  15. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    (17:35) iEepck: In a world of danger, there's a Mafia and a Werewolf, even a godfather! But the people strike back! Inspector find out who is who, Pretty Lady distracts people! Bodyguards protects people, Vigilante kills people! Spy can hax people, Mayors can outvote people! And there's a Samurai! The samurai can daykill the people like a ninja, who will win! Find out when you play this theme!

    Posting so everything is in the thread.
     
  16. Scatterbrain

    Scatterbrain You only live once*

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    I have a suggestion for mafia: give Cop and Hooker a recharge, so they can only use their commands every other day.

    It would work tremendously good for the mafia, without making them stupid OP. Not only are they set free from their common threats that get them lynched 11/10 times but it forces some cooperation between PL (aka inspect n1 and PL night 2, etc.) thus causing some trouble if Mafia decides to fakeclaim PL to insp.

    Or perhaps make Hooker a Jailkeeper instead while keeping the recharge? (But then again, Spy and Mayor...)
     
  17. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    i'd hate to revive a dead thread, but when is the summary going to be voted on?
     
  18. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    It was actually already added, but I lost the updated file. Been too lazy to re-add.
     
  19. Hawkman32

    Hawkman32 Doublade

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    The World Leaders are fighting and sent their mafia to defeat others. The villagers are watching, trying to stop the war even with no abilities.
     
  20. Denzi.

    Denzi. New Member

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    The one that started it all, plain ol' mafia. Good luck and have fun!
     
  21. Roild

    Roild Member

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    Just the stuff that happened.

    Code (text):
    1.  
    2.  
    3. -[no] Make the two sides a mafia and a werewolf faction. Godfather to join mafia. At any size, would be village v mafia v werewolf. (Werewolf not necessarily killing PLs, but can)
    4.  
    5.  
    6. -[no] Mafia teams can't be distracted until Don dies.
    7.  
    8.  
    9. -[yes] Don unhax'able.
    10.  
    11.  
    12. -[no] Remove Werewolf in large games.
    13.  
    14.  
    15. -[yes] Give Werewolf a team.
    16.  
    17.  
    18. -[yes] Fix spawns to suit any changes.
    19.  
    20.  
    21. -[yes] Remove vigilante hax.
    22.  
    23.  
    24. -[yes] Make Godfather inspect as villager.
    25.  
    26.  
    27. -[yes] Godfather to ignore ignore distracts instead of kill them.
    28.  
    29.  
    30. -[yes] Add teamTalk.
    31.  
    32.  
    33. -[no] Add recharge to samurai.
    34.  
    35.  
    36. -[yes] Mechanics fixes in the helps/infos to benefit new players. (Such as shared kills)
    37.  
     
  22. Yttrium

    Yttrium Well-Known Member Developer Developer

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  23. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Just an idea, swap one of the first villager spawns with a Werewolf. As I'm sure we've all noticed, default is one of the more unbalanced themes on the server. Adding a werewolf between 12 and 15 people would cut down the dangerous PL + Insp combo and possibly balance the theme out.
     
    Whereabouts Unknown likes this.
  24. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    I'll agree that it is unbalanced in favor of the village, but it's a good theme for people who are new to learn how to play. The theme has also been around for such a long time that I doubt it is going to be changed.
     
  25. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I understand that it's been around for ages, but the idea should at least be tested out. The mafia usually wins now if the village is a complete derp, and even then the village still wins normally.
     
  26. Roild

    Roild Member

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    Looking over the windata, only Mafia looks weak early on, but they get up stronger soon when 2 of them. Of 34 games played, most have been low. 5-11 looks balanced. Above 11, 3 village wins and 2 IM wins. The theme only looks unbalanced in theory. As I've seen, sometimes Village can steamroll if lucky. More often than naught, it doesn't happen. Not sure why people say the balance is off. I will attest that it is as it should be.
     
  27. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    You''re going to base a theme's balance (an issue the theme has had for a long time) on 34 games in a fraction of a month? Really? We just played a game of 14 where it was 10v2v2 and the village already had a 3rd info role, the Spy. How is that fair to the 4 Mafia?
     
  28. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    With a solid month of data, the picture below shows off the number of wins and percentages for each side in default. I'll just break it up into roles1 and roles2 for ya.

    Roles1 (89 games):

    Village: 47 wins (52.8%)
    Werewolf: 23 wins (25.8%)
    Mafia: 19 wins (21.3%)

    (Only rounded to .1%, so obviously not even 100%).

    While it seems balanced, overall, village does have a iron first over the mafia a large portion of the time, only faulting (for the most part) in the smallest of games. However, the focus of this post is roles2, not roles1.

    Roles2 (29 games):

    Village: 15 wins (51.7%)
    Italian Mafia: 10 wins (34.5%)
    French Canadian Mafia: 4 wins (13.8%)

    While the village may seem to win only half the time, one may only look at the number-for-number windata to see it is anything but. The village consistently holds of a winrate of 50% or higher. Let's look at some other themes to compare the winrates of the village at, say, sizes of 13.

    13-player game winrates: villages.

    Default: 67%
    Kirby: 65%
    DN: 26%
    Body: 58%
    Flock: 38%
    Elements: 50%

    In terms of Kirby and Body, the village has significantly worse to deal with in the forms of Alzheimer and such for Body and Mace Knight and TAC for Kirby, far more threatening than the basic killer found in IM and FCM. Flock, while having Honchkrow and Tropius, is still relatively safer for the village, yet their winrate is significantly lower.

    Long story short, you can say Default is balanced all you want but, when actually looking at the data, it's anything but. The theme NEEDS a Werewolf early in roles2, it's poorly balanced otherwise and honestly, after years of data, I'm just surprised it took this long to say something on the forums while everyone has been complaining on the server.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  29. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    Way to pick out a certain player size to support your argument. Especially one that only 3 games of Default have been played at that size. I won't disagree with you that Default is in favor of the village. You could maybe replace one of the villagers with a ww, but for the same 2 reasons I said before I don't think the theme should be changed much, if at all. Adding a ww probably wouldn't even help, because with 3 mafia factions of such small size, they are going to be devastated by crossfire as they already are. IF Default is going to be changed at all I would suggest just adding another don mafia into the spawn.
     
  30. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    In the end, adding a Werewolf would help. The village gets a Mayor, PL, Spy, Inspector, and Bodyguard before anyone even gets a Don. If BG isn't taken down extremely early, Mafia is usually fucked unless Inspector doesn't claim, which is situational. You can say "x-fire this, x-fire that" all you want, but basic killers need help.
     
  31. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    I'd rather move PL's spawn way up (something like after Godfather) than move WW down. Safe claim is already strong enough, PL Stall is not really necessary until there are more deaths per night. It's also a way to increase the number of kills without increasing the crossfire factor.
     
  32. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    Yeah, I think pl stalling is one of the main problems. With the theme being used to introduce rules to new players though, I don't think moving the PL up in the spawn is the way to go.
     
  33. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Zelda has been doing the job of introducing new players better than Default for a while now, so I don't think moving PL up would hurt.
    Alternatively, PL could at least be moved up on roles2. She's not that much of an issue when WW is around, but when there's only IM and FCM she's far too strong. In this case, she could spawn either after Don or GF.

    Also, one setup I'd like to see changed is the 5p:
    (22:33:49) ±Current Roles: Bodyguard, Inspector, Mafia, Pretty Lady, WereWolf.
    This setup has no space for anything. If you fake claim, you can be found too easily. If you crossfire, you lose. If you hit a protected person, it's over. If 1 PR dies, village is doomed.
    My concern is not even balance, but that those games are far too luck-based. Maybe a better setup could be something like Inspector/Mafia/Miller/Villager/Villager, which should allow for some fake claims, meatshielding and voices.
     
  34. Scatterbrain

    Scatterbrain You only live once*

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    1000000 years and someone actually came up with a decent setup ^

    Also: there's a minor error in Inspector's (from Default) help message: it says Type /Inspect [name] to find out someone's side, where it should be role.
     
  35. Roild

    Roild Member

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    I believe moving the PL after first Don would be valid enough. Don is currently 17. He would move down to 16 and PL would go up to 17th.

    Changing 5p is something I find a bit intense to change, but don't personally disagree with. As long as it stays Mafia (and moreso with less abilities), it wouldn't be bad. Although I would personally recommend 4 and 5 person setups with: Bodyguard, Mafia, 2-3 villies. No inspecting since that is too simple, although can be faked just as easily in 4p (First claim vs second claim. Overall, just who yells first). I see Bodyguard as a pseudo clean, yet also can be faked. Extending the game a turn for conversation in 4/5 person games would be fine.

    Also inspector msg fix. []

    If anyone disagrees or has ideas, shoot. More conversation should be had before any changes occur.
     
  36. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Hello everyone, some news. I'm starting a new project to revamp Default (authorized by Fuzzy and Veteran), and I have a first draft which is ready for discussion. But before that, I'd like to make some things clear about this project:

    -I was given authorization to lead a new project to revamp Default. I was not given ownership of the theme, nor did I adopt it, which means I'm not planning on working on this alone. The idea is to share this draft, discuss it with anyone interested and write a prototype to test it. Having the leadership only means I get to make some decisions regarding what will be tested and what will be not (and even this will be based on discussion, not on a whim).
    -Being a project, there's no guarantee that this will be in fact be used. If it's not successful, it will be scrapped mercilessly.
    -Please don't post repeated arguments like "Default shouldn't be changed". Your concern is appreciated if have that opinion, but at least wait for a version to be tested so we can choose the better one, as there's no guarantee the changed will indeed be made.
    -[Important] Different from previous attempts to revamp it, this time there will be a set of predefined goals that the theme looks to achieve. If you disagree with the goals envisioned for this project, you are free to write your own vision and ask the sMAs to try a different project once this one is done.

    So now, here's what I picked as the goals for this project (let's call it Default F, since there was Default A/B/C/D/E in the previous effort):
    What Default needs to be:
    -An entry theme for new players to graps the main game mechanics (Kills, Inspections, Votes, etc) and tactics (Voicing, Fake Claiming, even Follow the Cop, etc)
    -A theme that encourages communication, teamwork and other player skills
    -A fair theme where players will never feel they have no chance of winning after a single turn
    -A theme that it's fun to play (Well, all themes should be)
    What Default does not need to be:
    -A theme to explain all game mechanics (poison, bombs, spyhax, conversions, voteshields, priority, etc)
    -A theme to explain all possible tactics (Stalling, bussing, framing, etc). They obviously can exist, but the focus should be on simpler tactics.
    -A theme where only 1 role matters and everyone only follows around.
    -A "Hunt the Bodyguard" or "PL Stall him to death" theme
    -A theme only named Default because it's hardcoded or for nostalgia reasons. It should be Default as in "first choice theme".
    -A theme with simple coding. Playable content can be made simple even with complex coding.
    Ideas to achieve that:
    -Keep main night actions limited to Kill, Protect, Inspect and Distract. Possibly Dummy/Stalk/Watch/Shield for special cases. Convert/Curse/Copy can be used only to make some mechanics possible, roles that change forms or recruiters are a no-no.
    -Possibly remove Standby actions.
    -Remove PL Stall by only spawning PL if there's a check on it (Don, Godfather, WW). Alternatively, remove PL Stall by making mafia only distractable once per game (or some other limitation).
    -Reduce crossfire factor by reducing the number of mafia sides in some game sizes
    -Remove chance-based abilities (Spy hax)
    -Add limited abilities to Mafia sides on larger games (1-shot Distract, Stalk, etc) to reduce focus on "randkill until you find BG" (No poison or piercing kills though).
    -Add /tips regarding some basic tactics (connecting, scumtell, etc) since there would be no need for tips focused on roles
    -Make Don Mafia (and any possible extra Mafia role) inspect as regular Mafia so Inspector has a harder time knowing if they got a goon or a boss.
    -Avoid village roles that can get itself 100% publicly cleaned without baddies being able to interfere.
    -Avoid roles meant only for small games spawning on large games "only to increase the numbers". For those cases, a new role/variation is preferable due to balancing.
    -Possibly slightly increase information roles (especially for baddies) to allow for some extra communication/teamwork/strategies and scumslips (since they occur more often when there's more information running around).
    -Remove contradicting information meant to confuse players (example: Millers appearing as Mafia on Current Roles)

    Based on those points, this is the first draft I wrote for the theme:
    Roles with a (?) mean I'm not sure if such a role will really be necessary. Also, names are not definitive (I wish to keep them as close to the original as possible, but small changes are not discarded).

    VILLAGE
    -Villager
    -Inspector
    : Can find a player's role; FCM/IM are seen simply as FCM/IM regardless of being Don or any other special role (they still die/get lynched as their normal role).
    -Pretty Lady: Can distract every night. If a Mafia is distracted, that person is immune to PL for the next turn.
    -Bodyguard
    -Vigilante
    -Neighbour
    -Mayor: 2 votes
    -Miller: Inspected as Mafia (small games) or FCM/IM (medium-large games)
    -Bulletproof (?): Survives 1 nightkill during the game, cannot be protected. (Possibly give a "Your target was guarded" message when evading)
    -Some new PR for big (22+) games which can obtain extra but limited information (?)

    MAFIA (shared nightkill, team-reveal)
    -Mafia Goon

    WEREWOLF
    -Werewolf: Nightkill. Kill distractors.

    GODFATHER
    -Godfather: 2 Nightkills. Can Inspect. Immune to distraction.
    -Possibly an new role for extra large games (?)

    FCM/IM
    Here I have 3 Ideas for the Split Mafia (FCM/IM) which I'd like to discuss. Reminder that the idea is to allow mafia to fight village without finding the BG, give a slight amount of info to mafias so they both can find PRs quickly and create some scumslips situations:

    [IDEA A]
    ITALIAN MAFIA
    (shared nightkill, team-reveal)
    -Mafia Goon
    -Mafia Boss: Immune to distraction, can stalk twice per game

    FRENCH CANADIAN MAFIA (shared nightkill, team-reveal)
    -Mafia Goon:
    -Mafia Boss: Immune to distraction, can distract twice per game

    Pros: Mafia Bosses are different for added excitement
    Cons: Easier for PRs to know when it's safe to claim

    [IDEA B]
    ITALIAN MAFIA (shared nightkill, team-reveal)
    -Mafia Goon: Can stalk once per game (shared between Goons)
    -Mafia Boss: Immune to distraction, can distract once per game

    FRENCH CANADIAN MAFIA (shared nightkill, team-reveal)
    -Mafia Goon: Can watch once per game (shared between Goons)
    -Mafia Boss: Immune to distraction, can distract once per game

    Pros: Both sides get a distract to pressure PRs
    Cons: Goons may end getting an information abilities too early

    [IDEA C]
    ITALIAN MAFIA (shared nightkill, team-reveal)
    -Mafia Goon
    -Mafia Boss: Immune to distraction, can distract once per game
    -Mafia Spy: Can stalk twice per game

    FRENCH CANADIAN MAFIA (shared nightkill, team-reveal)
    -Mafia Goon
    -Mafia Boss: Immune to distraction, can distract once per game
    -Mafia Spy: Can watch twice per game

    Pros: Mafia get access to extra information only when games grow larger (20+ players)
    Cons: A 3rd role is necessary
    The main differences you will notice is the removal of some PRs (Spy, Samurai), a decent nerf to PL without making her useless and a change to FCM/IM.

    The plan is to have the following Village:Baddies ratio (only wrote some key game sizes):
    04p - 3:1 (Village:Mafia)
    07p - 5:2 (Village:Mafia)

    09p - 6:2:1 (Village:Mafia:Werewolf)
    12p - 8:3:1 (Village:Mafia:Werewolf)

    13p - 9:2:2 (Village:FCM:IM)
    15p - 11:2:2 (Village:FCM:IM)
    20p - 14:3:3 (Village:FCM:IM)

    22p - 15:3:3:1 (Village:FCM:IM:Godfather)
    25p - 17:4:3:1 (Village:FCM:IM:Godfather)
    30p - 20:5:4:1 (Village:FCM:IM:Godfather)
    35p - 23:6:5:1 (Village:FCM:IM:Godfather)
    40p - 26:7:6:1 (Village:FCM:IM:Godfather)
    30+ could also have a teammate for Godfather, if one is made.
    It's possible to notice that, compared to the current Default, the number of sides grows slower (WW at 9p, GF at 22, no WW on big games). It may seem that this benefits village, but with this there will be less crossfire, more votes per mafia side and baddies will be able to grap what's happening more easily.

    ---

    So if you read everything, here's what it's I wish to discuss:
    -Some of the abilities are quite open for discussion. For example, mafia roles with stalk/watch or only stalk? Or neither? Or Inspect? Do Werewolf and Godfather have enough power?
    -[Important] Which version of the FCM/IM split do you find better? (suggest changes if necessary)
    -Is a teammate for Godfather really necessary for large games?
    -Is a 2nd information PR necessary for village (22+ players)? Which abilities would it have?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
  37. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    Of the ideas I find B and C to be better. They are more balanced and do a good job of adding the watch command into the theme, which is not a common command. B might be a little bit better than C because if one of the purposes is to introduce different commands to players, the stalk and watch should be given to more players. I also think that it would better fix the complaints about the theme being too town sided if mafia didn't lose ability to gain information when one role dies.

    Godfather should probably get a teammate eventually. Solo roles tend to have a harder time winning games, even though they may have strong abilities. Malladus, for example, had 2 kills and almost never won (though, partially due to its low priority).
     
  38. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    Watch really isn't a thing I'd like to see in default because you'd be able to watch the inspector claim and then find the bodyguard based on that. Stalk is good for me, in which case I'd ask you rename Mafia Spy to Mafia Tracker so that people don't think that role gets hax as per the typical interpretation of Spies in the contemporary Mafia sense.

    Change the FCM's watch to inspect for the Mafia Goons in idea B and you have my support of it. C is also good, but B is less complex in terms of naming things and assigning roles.

    Godfather may need a teammate. Though you may give him abilities like an inspect, in my opinion what a solo role really needs is staying power rather than information, as once they're out they're out.

    I'd like a PR that can distinguish whether someone used an action, but not what it is or who they targetted. Not sure if that's codable, but you could call it the Deputy and have a /search or /frisk command for it.

    I don't really like the idea of Bulletproof in a theme where the Inspector usually claims safely cause he'll just be a named villager with a temporary life vest.

    Lastly, Werewolves need to be buffed too, as their only distinguishing ability apart from nightkilling can actually harm them if the PL can relay who she's distracting before the night ends and therefore pseudo-revealing a wolf. Some extra voting power for a mafia side would help and reward them for surviving into an end-game scenario
     
  39. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Reminder that roles names are far from definitive, so I will skip those comments in the replies (But the suggestions are being noted).

    The idea of having Watch is to encourage more voicing plays rather than follow the cop (that's the reason I didn't want to add any bad role inspected as good). Depending on the FCM/IM setup used, Watch would only come on large games.
    In any case, I agree with you that Watch may make BG hunt a bit too easy (although other than finding BG, watch is hardly that useful for a mafia role), so perhaps we could think some ideas to reach a midground here.

    If nothing is found, having both factions with Stalk (on ideas B and C) is also perfectly acceptable.

    This is not only perfectly possible, but it's also easy. Watch and Stalk can have their messages (both "X visited Y" and "X didn't visit anyone") customized, so it's just a matter of using those messages without saying who was visited (or who the target visited, in case of watch).

    BTW, this idea could even be used on the point above, although I did say I wanted another information role for village, so this one could be it.

    If FCM Goons get an inspect, then IM would also need one, as inspect is way more useful than stalk and it wouldn't be unfair to only give it to one of them. I'd rather avoid mafia with inspection on such sizes, since Setup B has those goons spawning at 13p.

    I too am not really fond of that idea, but I still added it because it's simple enough for a Default theme. In any case, the idea is to enforce the voicing tactics, which the Bulletproof could help with by being a first voice.
    But thinking again, this could easily backfire and end with village having a voice AND the inspector protected from kills. So yeah, Bulletproof is likely not going to be used.

    Remember that the plan is to not have Werewolf on big games at all. Extra vote in a small game could be a bit too powerful.
    But I agree that Werewolf needs something else. More ideas on this point are welcome.
     
  40. Micaiah

    Micaiah Bop it

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    Idea B is the best imo. Its not a complex idea at all, which is a good thing considering that this is a theme that is supposed to help new people learn about mafia. It could be possible to make the BG's protect unwatchable I believe so not much of a problem there. Would help the FCM find the PL easier which would be cool.

    Agreeing with the WW and GF buff as they desperately need it. GF could get a teammate that could protect and have + votes or something like that. Not sure about WW though. Maybe just a 1 time lynch survival for nonpeak?

    PL not being able to distract a person twice in a row would be amazing.

    Deputy would be cool for 22+

    Dont really see a use for bulletproof either.