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[Final] Kyurem (Taken Over)

Discussion in 'Gen 5 OU Analyses' started by Alfalfa, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    I would like to discuss the removal of Choice Scarf, and leave it to only a SubRoost, Life Orb, and Choice Specs set. Kyurem is still rather slow with a Choice Scarf, falling short of the 100 base speed tier, and gets worn down very easily by priority users, especially with a gaping weak to entry hazards.

    Taking this over for MetalGross.

    http://wiki.pokemon-online.eu/wiki/Kyurem/5th_Gen_OU - Done.

    [​IMG]

    ==General==
    With a flashy BST of 660, bulky 125/90/90 defenses, solid 130/130 offenses, and two great STABs, Kyurem looks like it should be a top-tier threat on paper, especially with its ability to abuse hail. However, it has several handicaps that prohibit it from becoming such. Its base 95 speed is lackluster in a metagame where at least a base 100 is encouraged. Furthermore, it is weak to the common priority moves Bullet Punch and Mach Punch, and gets a quarter of its HP ripped off by switching into Stealth Rock. Thus, Kyurem is not as bulky as it may seem. Furthermore, its Zekrom-infused counterpart, Kyurem-B, is available in the tier, and gives Kyurem a lot of competition offensively with a beastly base 170 attack, while maintaining a solid base 120 Special Attack.

    However, Kyurem still has attributes that distinguishes itself from Kyurem-B and the rest of the crowd. Its higher base Special Attack and a different ability in Pressure gives it a unique differentiation from Kyurem-B; instead of using raw power to immediately punch holes through a team, Kyurem can stall out the PP of attacks like Stone Edge and Superpower, especially considering it has access to a reliable recovery move in Roost. Its neutrality to Ice-type attacks gives it an advantage over Latios and Latias, who would have difficulties tanking an Ice Beam or Ice Shard; in addition, Kyurem can function much better in hail, since it is immune to the residual damage it provides. Furthermore, despite being plagues with fatal weaknesses, Kyurem has key resistances in Water, Grass, and Electric-type moves, allowing it to have an easier time facing rain teams while behind a Substitute. Last, but not least, while base 95 speed could be higher, it is enough to outspeed some key offensive threats, such as Dragonite and Mamoswine, giving it a much easier time against them. In the end, while Kyurem has some fatal flaws, it makes up for them with several key traits that justifies its niche in the OU metagame.

    ==SubRoost==
    {{set
    |name=SubRoost
    |pkmn=Kyurem
    |item=Leftovers
    |ability=Pressure
    |ev=56 HP / 216 SAtk / 236 Spd
    |nature=Modest (+SAtk, -Atk)
    |move1=Substitute
    |move2=Roost
    |move3=Ice Beam|move31=Blizzard
    |move4=Earth Power}}

    This is Kyurem's best set, combining several of its key traits to form an effective bulky attacker: with some key resistances found in the rain-infested metagame, access to Pressure and Roost, solid bulk, and a high Special Attack, Kyurem can be quite devastating with this set. Behind a Substitute, Kyurem can stall out low PP attacks, such as Hydro Pump, Gyro Ball, and Superpower, and drain them until the opponent cannot use them anymore. Its access to Roost complements this, as it can easily restore its HP back into a healthy amount. STAB Ice Beam is Kyurem's STAB of choice; to demonstrate its power, it OHKOs offensive Dragonite through Multiscale. Blizzard looks good on paper with hail support, but the drop in PP is very noticeable, as Kyurem will have much more difficulties stalling out attacks. Earth Power is a good coverage move, as Ice/Ground is resisted by only three viable Pokemon in OU, only one of which is common: Rotom-W, Rotom-H, and Bronzong. In addition, Kyurem can outstall all three of them.

    56 HP EVs allows Kyurem to create 101 HP Substitutes, as well as being able to switch into Stealth Rock 5 times. 236 Speed EVs allows Kyurem to outspeed positive-natured base 80s, especially Mamoswine.

    ===Synergy===
    For starters, Kyurem hates switching into entry hazards with a passion. Rapid Spinners like Tentacruel and Starmie can spin those hazards away for Kyurem, allowing it to switch in much more easily. Furthermore, Tentacruel can lay down Toxic Spikes, which is useful when stalling threats like Mamoswine and Blissey. Despite the lack of defensive synergy, Abomasnow's Snow Warning ability gives residual damage that wears down the opponent, but not Kyurem. Kyurem also gets a 100% accurate Blizzard when in hail, but the drop in PP is very risky for a staller. Jirachi is a good teammate for Kyurem, being able to provide Stealth Rock to wear down the opponent, paralyze most opponents that are faster than Kyurem, and provide a solid check to the Lati twins, who can prevent Kyurem from even getting a Substitute down. Scizor and Breloom give Kyurem a lot of troubles; Skarmory can wall both of them, as well as providing entry hazards to help with stalling, but dislikes Spore. Jellicent can check Scizor, though a miss in Will-O-Wisp can cost the game. However, Jellicent still checks a multitide of other key threats, especially Keldeo, whom is a pain for Kyurem to face. Celebi can provide Stealth Rock, and is a foolproof counter to Breloom.

    ==Choice Specs==
    {{set
    |name=Choice Specs
    |pkmn=Kyurem
    |item=Choice Specs
    |ability=Pressure
    |ev=32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
    |nature=Timid (+SAtk, -Atk)
    |move1=Ice Beam|move12=Blizzard
    |move2=Draco Meteor
    |move3=Earth Power
    |move4=Focus Blast|move41=Dragon Pulse|move42=Hidden Power Fire}}

    With a solid base 130 Special Attack, Kyurem can rip holes into teams by using Choice Specs. Its STABs have good coverage in OU and are only resisted by any steel not named Ferrothorn or Skarmory. Draco Meteor will pretty much destroy any Dragon that stays in on it, and will severely dent anything that does not resist it. Ice Beam is a better idea for spamming though, as Ice Beam has no recoil; however, in hail, Blizzard is much stronger than Ice Beam, and still 100% accurate. Earth Power has excellent coverage with Kyurem's Ice STAB, and Ice / Dragon / Ground is only resisted by Bronzong. The last move is based on what you want to hit: Focus Blast nails Ferrothorn and Blissey, but Dragon Pulse is a more reliable Dragon STAB than Draco Meteor. However, Hidden Power Fire OHKOes Scizor and Ferrothorn, brings Forretress down to Sturdy range, and does a number to Bronzong, who resists every other usable move, sans Focus Blast. The speed EVs allow Kyurem to outspeed positive Landorus-T and OHKO it.

    ===Synergy===
    When using this set, Abomasnow is definitely a good partner to consider. Despite the horrible synergy, Abomasnow gives Kyurem a 100% accurate Blizzard, which is incredibly hard for any Pokemon that is not a steel or Pink Blob to survive. Since Kyurem is going to be using hit-and-run tactics with Draco Meteor, a Rapid Spinner is a good idea to spin away entry hazards, which plague Kyurem. Tentacruel, Starmie, and Forretress are good Rapid Spinners that work well with Kyurem. Chansey and Blissey give Kyurem a bit of trouble, so lures to take them out are a good idea. Special Trick users, such as Latios and Rotom-W, can lure in and cripple the Pink Blobs with a Choice item. Jirachi is also a good teammate for Kyurem, providing Stealth Rock and paralysis support to help Kyurem defeat faster Pokemon, such as Volcarona, Terrakion, and Keldeo.

    ==Life Orb==
    {{set
    |name=Life Orb
    |pkmn=Kyurem
    |item=Life Orb
    |ability=Pressure
    |ev=32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
    |nature=Timid (+SAtk, -Atk)
    |move1=Ice Beam|move12=Blizzard
    |move2=Draco Meteor
    |move3=Earth Power|move31=Focus Blast
    |move4=Roost}}

    If the inability to switch attacks is too overwhelming, then a Life Orb set can be used in place of Choice Specs. Kyurem still hits very hard, and can now switch between attacks. Both Ice and Dragon are difficult resists to switch into, and are resisted by a couple of select Steel-types in OU, such as Scizor and Jirachi. Ice Beam is Kyurem's most reliable STAB, but Blizzard hits even harder, and is 100% accurate under hail, and OHKOs all but the bulkiest Dragonite at full HP. Draco Meteor also hits fairly hard; however, because of the -2 drops and the Life Orb recoil being very detrimental when acquired in one turn, it needs to be used sparingly. The third move is based on coverage: Earth Power hits Jirachi and Heatran hard, as well as reducing the need for Draco Meteor against Tentacruel. However, Focus Blast maims Tyranitar and Ferrothorn, while still getting a good hit on Heatran, but the drop in accuracy makes it rather unreliable. Finally, Roost is a good way for Kyurem to preserve its health after suffering from a lot of Life Orb and entry hazard recoil.

    The Speed EVs allow Kyurem to outspeed positive Landorus-T and OHKO with an Ice STAB before it can even lift a finger. Modest can be used for more power, but leaves Kyurem unable to outspeed positive Landorus and Modest Hydreigon. Hidden Power Fire is an option over Roost to hit Scizor, Forretress, and Ferrothorn very hard; however, it leaves Kyurem very susceptible to beeing worn down.

    ===Synergy===
    Abomasnow is definitely a partner that should be considered for its ability to provide a 100% accurate Blizzard. Rapid Spinners are also a good idea to remove Stealth Rock from the field. Tentacruel, Starmie, and Forretress are good candidates for Rapid Spinners. Regardless of whether or not Kyurem uses Focus Blast, Chansey and Blissey have no difficulty walling this set, unless Spikes are up. Latios and Rotom-W can lure in and Trick Choice items onto the pink blobs, essentially crippling them for the rest of the match. Scizor and Jirachi cause this set a lot of problems; Magnezone is thus a good teammate, being able to trap both of them and KO them. A Jirachi of your own is also a good teammate, as it can provide both Stealth Rock and paralysis support to assist Kyurem in beating the opponent.

    ==Other Options==
    Kyurem's movepool is pretty small, and it thus does not have many other options available. Dragon Pulse and Focus Blast can replace Ice Beam and Earth Power on the SubRoost set, though keep in mind that Dragon Pulse does not OHKO offensive Dragonite through Multiscale. Hone Claws allows Kyurem to use a more accurate Blizzard outside of hail, but Kyurem cannot really abuse Hone Claws in a way that Kyurem-B cannot. Mixed and Physical sets are completely outclassed by Kyurem-B, who has much more physical attack to worth, as well as the same movepool, sans two moves. Finally, Glaciate can help Kyurem outpace faster opponents, but Substitute is generally the better choice

    ==Checks and Counters==
    Kyurem is much harder to counter than you think; just to show how strong it is, Tyranitar needs to run full Special Defense to avoid the 2HKO from SubRoost's Earth Power. In addition, Kyurem can run the PP on Stone Edge down rather quickly, making it a rather unreliable check. Chansey and Blissey can stand to any of Kyurem's attacks, but are outstalled by the SubRoost set. Still, they can beat the more offensive sets thanks to their enormous special bulk, and are rarely ever 2HKOed by Focus Blast. Scizor is also a good counter, being able to take any attack bar Hidden Power Fire and Focus Blast and rip off a vast amount of HP using Bullet Punch. Bronzong can take any attack bar Hidden Power Fire and respond back with Gyro Ball; however, it is outstalled by the SubRoost set. Fighting-types, such as Breloom and Terrakion, can easily revenge kill Kyurem, but none of them can actually switch in on it, especially in hail.


    Skeleton
    [Secret]
    *Amazing 660 BST
    *Mediocre speed
    *125/90/90 defenses help with alleviating its mediocre defensive typing
    *130/130 offenses offer a good deal of power
    *Solid hail abuser
    *Terrible defensive typing, giving weaknesses to entry hazards, as well as priority attacks

    ==SubRoost==
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 56 HP / 216 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power

    *Arguably Kyurem’s best set
    *Makes use of Kyurem’s natural bulk, great Special Attack and Pressure.
    *Ice/Ground coverage is only resisted by three viable Pokemon in OU, them being Rotom-W, Bronzong, and Rotom-H.
    *Pokemon who resist Ice/Ground coverage can be outstalled by the combination of Pressure and SubRoost, for example, Bronzong.
    *56 HP EVs for 101 HP Substitutes, as well as being able to switch into Stealth Rock five times, 236 Spd to outspeed Positive Nature 80s, most notably Mamoswine.

    *Rapid Spinners like Tentacruel and Starmie help compensate for Kyurem's weakness to entry hazards. Tentacruel can also lay down Toxic Spikes, which is useful when stalling.
    *Abomasnow gives Kyurem a 100% accurate STAB Blizzard; however, the drop in PP is very noticeable for a stallmon.
    *Jirachi is a good teammate for Kyurem, being able to provide Stealth Rock and paralysis support, as well as checking the Lati twins, who can prevent Kyurem from laying down a Substitute.
    *Scizor gives Kyurem troubles; Skarmory and Jellicent can handle Scizor, as well as providing entry hazards and burn support to help Kyurem with stalling further.

    Kyurem @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4SpD / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam / Blizzard
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast / Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power Fire

    Set Comments:
    *A Choice set is a very good choice seeing Kyurem’s monstrous Special Attack and a great offensive typing to fire off strong, unresisted STAB attacks.
    *Focus Blast hits Steel and Ice types respectively, who both resist the STAB attacks from Kyurem
    *Earth Power is a handy move against Jirachi and Heatran who both commonly switch in.
    *Dragon Pulse is there for when you don’t want to lock yourself in Draco Meteor. It’s also great late game.
    *Hidden Power Fire hits Scizor and Forretress hard, who think they have nothing to fear.
    *This set really needs Rapid Spin support otherwise it won’t last very long.
    *Hail support is appreciated since Blizzard gets viable then. The more power the better.
    *A Modest nature is preferred since Timid doesn't hit a good speed tier.

    *Abomasnow gives Kyurem a much more reliable and stronger Ice STAB in Blizzard
    *Tentacruel, Starmie, and Forretress can Rapid Spin away those nasty entry hazards that plague Kyurem
    *Special Trick users, such as Latios and Rotom-W, can lure in and cripple the pink blobs.
    *Jirachi can provide both Stealth Rock and paralysis support to help Kyurem defeat opponents quicker and beat faster Pokemon, such as Terrakion and Keldeo.

    Kyurem @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam / Blizzard
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earth Power / Focus Blast
    - Roost

    Set comments:
    *Life Orb Kyurem is the best way to abuse Kyurem’s excellent Special Attack.
    *Ice Beam/Blizzard + Draco Meteor make for a powerful STAB combination only resists like to switch in to
    *Focus Blast is a nifty way to dispose yourself of Tyranitar, Ferrothorn and Heatran, but Earth Power gets a harder hit on Jirachi and is more reliable.
    *Roost gives hardly needed longevity but can always be switched out for total offensive presence.
    *Speed EVs outspeed positive Landorus-T, but Modest can be used for more power to outspeed positive 80s, but Kyurem can now be revenged by Landorus-T and Hydreigon.
    *Magnezone makes for a good partner since Jirachi and Scizor have no problem taking on this set.
    *You can use Hidden Power Fire to hit Scizor, Forretress and Ferrothorn very hard.

    *Abomasnow gives Kyurem a much more reliable and stronger Ice STAB in Blizzard
    *Tentacruel, Starmie, and Forretress can Rapid Spin away those nasty entry hazards that plague Kyurem
    *Special Trick users, such as Latios and Rotom-W, can lure in and cripple the pink blobs.
    *Jirachi can provide both Stealth Rock and paralysis support to help Kyurem defeat opponents quicker and beat faster Pokemon, such as Terrakion and Keldeo.

    *Kyurem's movepool is pretty small
    *Dragon Pulse can be used for a Dragon STAB on the SubRoost, and has good coverage with Focus Blast
    *Mixed and Physical sets are completely outclassed by Kyurem-B, who has much much more physical attack to work with, as well as the same movepool.
    *Hone Claws seems tempting to use with Blizzard, but Kyurem has better things to do.
    *Glaciate can help with faster opponents, but Substitute is generally the better choice.

    *Blissey and Chansey are outstalled by the SubRoost set, but can beat the more offensive sets.
    *Scizor can easily beat Kyurem, Bullet Punching it to death. Other priority users work as well, but none of them can sponge Kyurem's attacks
    *Bronzong can take any of Kyurem's attacks bar Hidden Power Fire and respond back with Gyro Ball; however, it has problems against the SubRoost set, which can outstall Gyro Ball's pathetic 8 PP with Pressure.
    *The more offensive sets can be easily revenged killed by a Fighting type, such as Terrakion and Breloom; however, none of them can switch in on Kyurem, especially in hail.
    [/Secret]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  2. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I still think Mix Kyurem is viable. Physcially based mix is outclassed by Kyurem-B, but Kyurem can do a specially based mix set better due to better special attack. A mixed set also isn't forced out by Draco Meteor, and can 2HKO the pink blobs with Outrage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  3. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    The thing is, Kyurem-B has Teravolt, which allows it to do things that Kyurem cannot: hit Rotom-W and Bronzong with Earth Power, OHKO Forretress without hazards up, make Alakazam take Stealth Rock damage, etc., all of which Kyurem can't do.
     
  4. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Terravolt doesn't negate Magic Guard - it only negates abilities that would affect an attack like Levitate. You do make a good point about Terravolt Earth Power, although Draco Meteor and Outrage still smash through Rotom-W.
     
  5. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    There is a problem with that though. Kyurem is highly dependent on hail, whereas Kyurem-B is not:

    252 SpA Life Orb Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 149-177 (42.32 - 50.28%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    32 Atk Life Orb Kyurem Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 212-251 (45.78 - 54.21%) -- 50.78% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (and Vaporeon generally carries Protect, which alleviates this to a much lower chance)
    252 SpA Life Orb Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 177-209 (51.6 - 60.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Essentially a 3HKO when factoring in the drops
    32 Atk Life Orb Kyurem Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 286-339 (40.62 - 48.15%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    4 Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 355-419 (50.42 - 59.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 88+ SpD Bronzong: 198-234 (58.57 - 69.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
     
  6. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Fair enough, I guess Kyurem-B does a mixed set better. In Hail mixed Kyurem can be very effective, but yeah an OO mention will probably suffice.

    What about a Sub + 3 attacks set? Many of Kyurem's potential checks now have to eat a STAB Draco Meteor.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  7. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    The problem with Sub + 3 Attacks is how difficult it is to maintain those Substitutes; at least with SubRoost, you can heal yourself, but with all of those entry hazards, Kyurem is going to be wishing it had Roost. Also, Draco Meteor is a hit-and-run tactic; after one Draco Meteor, Kyurem is essentially helpless. If I want to use Draco Meteor, I would use the Choice Specs or Life Orb set, which can afford to run Draco Meteor. A Substitute set essentially becomes set-up fodder for bulky Pokemon after using Draco Meteor at least once.
     
  8. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Fair dos, was just snowballing I guess.
     
  9. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Does anybody mind if I remove Choice Scarf from the Choice set? It really does not offer too many assets that Latios or Keldeo do not: while some other Pokemon that have similar speed tiers to Kyurem and can run Choice Scarf, they have enough to distinguish themselves. Kyurem gets worn down too easily by hazards, and it really does not have that destructive power that Kyurem-B or Latios has (sure, Kyurem-B is weak to hazards, but it destroys offensive teams with a Choice Scarf equipped).
     
  10. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Scarf Kyurem is pretty bad, it can go.
    Focus Blast doesn't need a slash on the first set, IMO.
    Nothing wrong with third set or remainder, looks good.
     
  11. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Focus Blast is meant to be used with Dragon Pulse because it has better coverage than Dragon + Ground
     
  12. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    To be honest, Ice Beam + Earth Power is the best combination.
    Maybe just don't slash anything.

    Going to approve, but check again later and ask for at least one more QCs approval!
     
  13. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Then I will put Dragon Pulse into OO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013