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[BW2] Where's my usage! (NU)

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU' started by East's Mascot, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    Forums are boring atm, so I decided to make a topic :]
    This will be dedicated to underused threats in NU, I'll post some of my own; however, I want you all to post what you think as well. Don't hate on a set/pokemon you see because you think it's bad unless you try it, and I don't mean just 1 game. Some pokemon that I/other will post may seem bad, different, or weird to you, but they can/may be effective.

    When you post a pokemon, list any effective items/sets, moves it can use, and why you think it can and/or should be used more. I don't want people saying things like "Banded Kakuna! You have to try it before saying it's bad!" Be intelligent with your posts, and respectful of other people's posts.
    Without further ado, I'll start!

    Swanna
    Swanna-2.jpg

    Mikasa (Swanna) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Hydration
    EVs: 232 Spd / 252 SAtk / 24 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane (or Air Slash)
    - Surf
    - Substitute (or Rain Dance)
    - Roost (Rest if you use Rain Dance)

    This monster is in NEU, and hardly used in there for some reason. She's weak to rock and electric. 4x to electric, and stealth rocks as well both hurt swanna's ability to preform in NU, but this typing means she pairs well with ground types, who provide an immunity to electric and resistances to rock. She has 2 weaknesses, but she has resistances to: Steel, Fire, Bug, Fighting, Water, and an immunity to ground. Her typing means she can take any 1 hit from a ludicolo, since hydro pump is resisted and the other 2 coverage moves he carries are neutral. Swanna can switch into ludicolo and abuse it's rain with hurricane/surf. Swanna also has a great speed tier, especially in NU. Most fast offensive mons in NU: Non scarf Ape, Drapion, Houndoom, Haunter, Sawsbuck, Zangoose, Gardevoir, Non scarf Rotom F/S, Etc are all slower since Swanna resides in the unique speed tier of base 98. My EV spread for her is so that she outspeeds all base 95 positive nature and slower mons. She can switch into things like ferroseed, who set up spikes. They will then recognize the threat and attempt to thunderwave/leech seed it, where you can sub. They will then go for gyro ball, but since Swanna resists it, her sub will not break. She may not have a monsterous special attack to abuse, but her dual stab hits most things for at least neutral, and she can sub pretty often since she forces switches. She also can sub on Absol/Skunktank's sucker punches. She doesn't have the best bulk either, it being 75/63/63. Now, that isn't TERRIBLE, but it's nowhere near bulky.Swanna relies on it's strong moves and typing to force switches/sub up. She may only have 87 SpA, but that's more than enough when paired up with LO and Hurricane. Hurricane can miss, which sucks, but it has the same chance of confusing your opp as it does of missing. Another option over Hurricane is Air Slash, Which is 95% accurate and has a 30% chance to flinch, which is also nice. Swanna will lose out on a lot of 2hkos if it uses air slash, but if you want reliability, air slash is the way to go.

    Honorable mentions: Swanna has a base 87 Attack stat and access to Brave Bird, but it lacks waterfall for dual stab and U turn for momentum, so a physical set isn't recommended. Swanna also gets tailwind, which doubles the speed of all your pokemon for 4 turns, this can be used in lieu of sub/roost if you wish. This will lower Swanna's chances of living for a long time, but you can use Swanna, then use tailwind the turn you'd die to give another pokemon a chance to clean up after Swanna weakened the opposing team.

    Next person, GO!
     
  2. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Although this thread wasn't approved by Cased and I, I will let it stay up because it provokes discussion and, although the Creative Movesets in NU Thread has a similar theme, this allows is to discuss Pokemon as a whole, underrated niches, and more.

    Anyway, Swanna is indeed an underrated threat. User Treecko uses it on a pretty successful NU team which truly displays its strength in the tier.

    Onto the Pokemon that I shall be posting: Combusken.

    Combusken sits at below two percent in ranked usage. This is likely due to various fighting types like Sawk, Primeap, Emboar, Gurdurr, and even Throh fitting into more teams and having arguably more significant niches. However, Combusken is a force to be reckoned with. Speed Boost is a fabulous ability and with the fire / fighting typing in conjunction with good attacking stats, Combusken can blaze through the tier. Here is the set I use: (note: it is also the standard set)

    Combusken (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Focus Blast
    - Protect
    - Substitute

    You may be asking why it is used as a special attacker. The reasons are that physical walls like Alomomola are much harder to break for Combusken. However, a Swords Dance set is perfectly viable. In addition, the Special Set has great off-the-bat power thanks to high base power, STAB attacks and Combusken's good special attack stat. Also, Substitute allows you to possibly get a free sub up if the opponent predicts protect, or give you a safe way to get in Blaze range. Protect is for obvious speed boosting reasons. Eviolite is viable, but the power lost from Life Orb will be noticeable and d'être mental to Combusken when trying to break walls and/or sweep.

    Viable partners to this set are Pivot Musharna (Baton Pass / Moonlight / Psychic / Filler - T-wave, Toxic, CM, Heal Bell, Signal Beam, Hidden Power, etc. are all viable in last spot depending on team), Skuntank, and Taunt WallBreaker Samurott (obviously, there are other synergetic Pokemon, those are just off the top of my head.)

    Some notable users who have utilized Combusken are MetalGross and Meeps (who beat Cased in POCL with it ^_^)
     
  3. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Personally I think Crawdaunt could do with more usage. It can be a great wallbreaker or late game sweeper. Adaptability boosted STABs that get perfect neutral coverage in NU (apart from Ferroseed) and great 120 base attack. I personally like its Choice Band set more, as I prefer to use Fraxure as a Dragon Dancer.

    Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
    Trait: Adaptability
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SAtk)
    EV: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spd
    Waterfall/Crabhammer
    Crunch
    Superpower
    Toxic

    Some calcs

    252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 104 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 226-268 (45.47 - 53.92%) -- 96.88% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Metang: 146-174 (45.06 - 53.7%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 208-246 (71.23 - 84.24%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 248 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 368-436 (113.93 - 134.98%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    With just Stealth Rock support, it can 2HKO just about every wall in NU apart from Tangela.
     
  4. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    Specs Crawdaunt is so much better though, just because it lures in and kills Tangela (as well as other physical walls) :x But yeah Crawdaunt is pretty cool.

    Anyway here's my awesomely underused set:

    [​IMG]
    Charizard @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solar Power
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam
    - Roost

    So Charizard has actually seen a usage spike since the ladder reset in September (probably something to do with Claydol dropping) but this set is never used on Zard. Ever. Thanks to Solar Power you get the equivalent of a Specs Boost in sun, plus the actual power-up from Sun itself. Combine that with Zards solid special attack, STAB Fire Blast and you have a powerhouse. Also just look at this calc:

    252 SpA Solar Power Charizard SolarBeam vs. 104 HP / 152 SpD Alomomola in sun: 498-586 (100.2 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    That's a guaranteed OHKO on Alomomola, the number one switch in to half the tie- ehhh I mean Charizard. That's just too convenient to pass up. With Lefties you take only 4% damage every turn in Sun, and it provides extra bulk to set up Sun. Counters to this set? Not even Topah's Wallrein stands a chance. Your only hope is to revenge kill with scarfers like Rotom-S or Primeape (if you even pack Stone Edge). That's where support Claydol comes into play. It's a solid check to all the scarfers and spins Rocks away for Charizard. Make sure to cover the overlapping Water weakness though, so Zard has an easier time setting up. Houndoom is also scary (get out of NU already ;=;).

    And most importantly, it's just a very fun set to use.
     
  5. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    Dammit, I was going to post SunnyDay Zard. It literally beats every mon that's been getting a lot of usage lately. Houndoom doesn't love taking the Solarbeams anyways.

    I guess I'll post Zweilous, I know Zweilous fetish blahblah

    Zweilous @ Eviolite
    Trait: Hustle (Worst ability ever) so salty over missing in pocl week 1, fuk hustle
    EV's: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    Nature: Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar
    - Dragon Tail

    Incredible with hazards. It basically beats all special attackers, even if they have a super effective move, I believe Samurott's Ice Beam only does about... a bit over half. Maybe less depending on nature. (Don't run Modest ugh)

    Yeah not much to say, a staple on my balance teams.

    You can SpeedCreep Roselia/Tangela/Alomomola or any 166 mon (70 Base Speed right?) that's... like 48 EV's, run 56 to make sure.

    Finch approved of this set.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2013
  6. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    I was hoping more people would participate before I posted again :[

    Remember to those who already posted, you can (and I'd like it if you did) comment on other sets to have a discussion whilst other people think of mons/sets to post

    @Finch's Combusken: Standard sets are fine, no need to post random obscure sets, this is to discuss underrated mons and Combusken is definitely underrated. Fire Blast and Focus Blast have great neutral coverage, although i prefer to run hp rock or hp grass over sub for things like Zard/bulky waters that are 4x weak to grass (seismi/gastro)

    @ Dr. Doom's Daunt (how's that for a tongue twister) Banded Daunt is super scary, 2hkoing Alom with a physical move is no small feat (it can protect and live I believe but with rocks it should 2hko), with the right predictions, it had no counters. I've carried ice beam over toxic before (for tang) with a Naughty nature which worked pretty well, but toxic works well because I think Alom has a 50/50 chance to live after a protect. Specs Daunt is also a huge threat, unfortunately, it is forced to choose between hp grass and hp fire, and is walled by Ferro or a bulky water depending on what it chooses.

    @Liar's Zard, Zard is all, Zard is life, all hail Zard. You may resist fire blast, but if the sun is up, Zard does not care. Huge threat, very underrated, but his usage is low because rocks bully him and his speed, whist very very high, does not gain a boost in the sun meaning he is outsped by scarfers. Still, very underrated threat, sunny day Zard.

    @Cased's Love, Zweilous is a very underrated mon as well. Offensive w/ Eviolite has few counters outside of Alom/Tangela (banded has even fewer) and it makes an incredible phaser. Unfortunately, it has hustle which means it may miss dragon tail in crucial moments, but eviolite boosts it's defenses to nice levels and resttalk gives you a 66% chance of hitting a phasing move (but slightly lower since Dtail can miss) I prefer to run a little speed to outspeed base 65's on him, it's always nice to hit a mon in your sleep with a phasing move before they hit you XD. He can be used very effectively on spikestack teams which rack up damage with either set, offensive or phaser.

    A new mon to throw into the fray!

    Fraxure @ Eviolite
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 170 Spd / 84 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance (SD)
    - Substitute (Taunt)
    - Outrage (Dragon Claw)
    - Superpower (Low Kick, Aqua Tail)

    After a DD, he outspeeds base 95s, and he can sub and setup on common walls such as Alom/Tang that doesn't have HP ice. Mold Breaker negates Sturdy as well, so if you're running a CB set, hitting a Golem with a CB Aqua tail really surprises them for some reason. I listed other viable options on his set to the right in parenthesis, these all work well. This set functions similarly to DD Altaria (a mon I'll be posting later if no one else does), but it carries a coverage move over recovery and has much greater power. Since he has the infamous dragon typing, he can sub on plenty of mons, Grass types, Water types, Fire, and Electric are all not very effective. With base 117 attack, he can absolutely demolish unprepared teams. I've had people switch in an Alom into me thinking they'd wall me, or have them stay in letting my set up because they expected their Golem/Gigalith to live with sturdy. If you choose to run the SD set, I recommend running more speed, perhaps max speed infact, and a jolly nature so that you can outspeed things like Absol. Doing so with unfortunately lower your chances of full on sweeping a team, but you will almost always get at least one kill if you play it smart. After an SD, Jolly Fraxure hits 666 attack, and trust me when I say he hits like the devil.
     
  7. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    [​IMG]
    Relicanth (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Double-Edge
    - Head Smash

    This thing is an absolute monster, its Head Smash is as powerful as CB Sawk's Close Combat, it has perfect coverage with Waterfall + Earthquake and has Double Edge as a powerful attack to ease prediction. It's natural Physical Bulk allow it to tank hits such as Scarf Sawk CC and everything weaker, making it difficult to revenge kill outside of Special Attackers.

    Here are some Calcs:
    252 Atk Choice Band Relicanth (+Atk) Head Smash vs 252 HP/252 Def Mesprit (+Def) : 60.16% - 70.88% (2 hits to KO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Relicanth (+Atk) Head Smash vs 252 HP/252 Def Alomomola (+Def) : 48.88% - 57.49% (2-3 hits to KO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Relicanth (+Atk) Head Smash vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Dusclops (+Def) : 44.37% - 52.11% (2-3 hits to KO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Relicanth (+Atk) Head Smash vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def) : 40.72% - 48.5% (3 hits to KO)

    As you can see nothing much can reliably switch into a Head Smash, the only downside is Relicanth isn't too strong when you're not using Head Smash, and Ferroseed being in the tier limits it some, however it is still a great Wall Breaker and deserves to be used more.
     
  8. Daybreak

    Daybreak can't touch this

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    Rampardos @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 12 Atk / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SpA, -SpD)
    - Head Smash
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast

    Mixed rampardos is ridiculously good, being able to smash through common physical walls like alomomola and tangela, and special walls like lickilicky and probopass and more. Since you only usually see physical rampardos, it might be easy to predict the moveset. With special rampardos 2 things happen.

    1. You take out physical walls with ease. No physical wall stands up to rampardos's barrage of special attacks.

    2. You do not die as quickly as the special sets. Considering the main stab option for rampardos is head smash, you will die very quickly when pounding through the walls. With a special set you are taking no dammage from life orb due to sheer force and you only have to use head smash sparingly.

    This rampardos is also a potent wallbreaker for the tier. The problem is that it is relatively useless against hyper offense teams and with bulky ghost types in the tier, rampardos tends to struggle against those. These weakness can be overlooked with good team structure however. With this, rampardos will not dissapoint.
     
  9. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    I prefer to run Rock Slide > Head Smash boost because LO and recoil makes you dead real quick. And I prefer to run Superpower > Focus Blast because it is far more reliable and ruins Special walls like Lickilicky. But regardless of what you choose mixed Ramp is an incredible wall breaker and can run straight through Stall teams single handedly.
     
  10. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    I agree with Afro on both Rock Slide over Smash because of the lack of recoil + you get a boost from Sheer Force so it isn't too bad of a drop in power. Also Superpower for special walls like Lickilicky/Cradily/Audino. Focus Blast hits nice because of the sheer force boost, but it still fails to 2hko them (maybe it 2hko's Cradily, not sure) but superpower WILL 2hko them.

    On the set overall, I love it. I run a pretty close set, physically based with fire blast for Tang, so I agree with this version as well. Rampardos is definitely the best wall breaker in the tier, base 165 attack, stab 150 base power move, that's as good as it gets. Not even Skarmory can stand up to this monster, played well and you will always get a kill. His lackluster speed and defenses keep him in NU, but in a tier where bulky offense is so good, his speed is enough to be able to nab a few kills