1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Guest, PO has ceased our separate tiering and adopted Smogon tiers for SM. More information and updates here.

    Dismiss Notice

[Final] Raikou (ADV OU Analysis)

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Analyses' started by Alfalfa, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    9
    PO Trainer Name:
    Alfalfa
    [​IMG]

    [URL='http://wiki.pokemon-online.eu/wiki/Raikou/3rd_Gen_OU]ADV OU Analysis[/URL]

    ==Overview==
    Raikou is the fastest Pokemon in OU with access to Calm Mind, and has good power and defenses to boot, allowing him to find a place in OU as a solid special sweeper. Base 115 speed is an excellent speed tier, shared only by Starmie, who Raikou has no difficulties beating after securing a Calm Mind or two under its belt. As a result, it can beat several unprepared teams rather easily.

    However, Raikou has some big issues it needs to be addressed. It struggles to get past Blissey, Snorlax, and Regice, all three of which it has issues beating. In addition, it gets easily trapped and KOed by Dugtrio before it can even make a move. As the final nail in the coffin, its gets worn down rather easily, as its bulk is only average at best. Despite these flaws, do not overlook Raikou, as it is very good at what it does.

    ==Calm Mind==
    {{set
    |name=Calm Mind
    |item=Leftovers
    |ability=Pressure
    |ev=4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    |nature=Timid
    |move1=Calm Mind
    |move2=Thunderbolt
    |move3=Hidden Power Ice|move31=Hidden Power Grass
    |move4=Substitute|move41=Roar}}


    This set is a very dangerous mid to late-game sweeper due to its high speed and decent power. After a Calm Mind or two, Raikou has enough power to blow through all but the specially bulkiest of Pokemon, such as Blissey and Snorlax. Thunderbolt is Raikou's main STAB, and anything that does not have the bulk or typing to tank it will be hit hard. Hidden Power Ice has good coverage with Thunderbolt, covering Ground and Grass-types, such as Flygon and Celebi. However, Raikou tends to lure in Swampert, and can use Hidden Power Grass to KO it. Substitute allows Raikou to beat Dugtrio, who would otherwise trap and KO this set with ease. However, Roar phazes away opposing Calm Mind users, such as Jirachi and Blissey. It can also scout the opponent's team, and can secure a turn for Raikou to switch out of Dugtrio.

    ===Synergy===
    Although Raikou generally runs a method to beat Dugtrio, it still has little difficulty trapping and KOing the electric feline. Porygon2 is thus a good teammate, being able to turn Arena Trap against Dugtrio and KO it with Ice Beam. Blissey, Snorlax, and Regice have the bulk to stand up to a boosted Raikou, and will do so; lures, such as Focus Punch Gengar, are adept at taking them down. Spikes support is also handy to wear them down. As a result, Skarmory and Forretress are good to lay them down. Dugtrio, who is a nightmare for any Raikou, is also a good teammate for it, being able to trap and KO Jirachi before it tries to stir up a Calm Mind war. It also traps Magneton, who resists every attack on this set.

    ==Bulky Calm Mind==
    Raikou @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 SAtk / 28 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Rest
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Sleep Talk / Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass]

    This set aims to get in multiple Cam Minds by being able to take some additional hits, allowing for an easier sweep. With increased bulk and availability of Rest, Raikou can stay in with less difficulty as it sets up a sweep. Thunderbolt is Raikou's STAB of choice with its unique combination of power and accuracy. The last move is a bit more difficult to deicde on. Sleep Talk allows Raikou to attack while asleep, but it is left completely walled by Jolteon and Ground-types, especially Dugtrio. Hidden Power Ice allows Raikou to hit Flygon, but the lack of Sleep Talk hurts. Hidden Power Grass nails Swampert, but now Raikou is set-up fodder for Celebi. Regardless of the move choice, be sure to compensate for Raikou's shortcomings with proper team support.

    The Speed EVs allow Raikou to outspeed neutral-natured base 100s, such as Adamant Salamence; the rest is thrown into HP and special attack for more power and bulk..

    ===Synergy===
    This set can be easily trapped and KOed by Dugtrio, especially if running Sleep Talk. Thus, Porygon2 can turn Dugtrio's Arena Trap against it and KO it with Ice Beam. If Raikou forgoes Sleep Talk, it can give free turns to the opponent while it is sleeping. Blissey and Celebi are good clerics that can wake up Raikou with Aromatherapy and Heal Bell. Blissey and Snorlax easily wall this set; Gengar can lure them in and hit them with Focus Punch, which will leave a mark on them. While there are other BlisseyLax lures available, such as Alakazam and Sceptile, Gengar is generally the best choice due to its effectiveness and versatility. Spikes can wear down this set with ease; Forretress, Starmie, and Cloyster can use Rapid Spin to clear away those Spikes. If Raikou uses Sleep Talk, then it is completely walled by Jolteon and Ground-types. Offensive Grass-types, such as Exeggutor and Ludicolo, can easily handle Ground-types, whereas Swampert and bulky Tyranitar can handle Jolteon.

    ==RestTalk==
    Raikou @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 SAtk / 28 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ice] / Roar

    With acceptable bulk and power, as well as blazing speed, Raikou can pull off a RestTalk set successfully. Rest + Sleep Talk is its only form of recovery, and with usable Special Attack and Speed, its offensive presence is still usable, albeit not overwhelming. Thunderbolt is Raikou's STAB of choice, and can clock in at an acceptable amount of power. Hidden Power Grass is recommended in the fourth slot, as Raikou tends to lure in Swampert, and Hidden Power Grass will hit it fairly hard. Hidden Power Ice can be used instead to hit Flygon, should it be a bigger threat to Raikou's team than Swampert. However, Roar is also an option to scout the opponent's team, as well as phaze away any opposing Dugtrio that are switching in on it.

    The Speed EVs allow Raikou to outpace neutral-natured base 100s, such as Adamant Salamence. The rest of the EVs are invested into HP and Special Attack for power and bulk.

    ===Synergy===
    Dugtrio has little difficulty trapping and KOing this set, regardless of what Raikou runs in the fourth slot. Thus, Porygon2 is a good teammate to deal with Dugtrio by tracing its Arena Trap and KOing it with Ice Beam. A cleric is not necessary to back up Raikou, but it works very well with one. Blissey and Celebi are good teammates to provide Heal Bell support. Skarmory and Forretress are good teammates, especially if Raikou uses Roar, as Spikes wears down Raikou's usual switch-ins. Outside of Spikes, they can handle physical threats that Raikou has troubles with, such as Tyranitar and Metagross.

    ==Other Options==
    Raikou's movepool is pretty small, but there are some additional options available. Protect in tandem with Pressure allows Raikou to PP stall, but this is better done by Suicune, who is bulkier. Raikou can run Reflect to help manage Dugtrio, but Substitute is generally the best choice. Raikou has access to both Rain Dance and Thunder, but a +1 Thunderbolt does more than an unboosted Thunder. Also, Raikou does not have the space for Rain Dance. Raikou has access to Thunder Wave, but it is already very fast as is. Psych Up allows Raikou to copy boosts from the opponent, but boosting up with Calm Mind is generally the better choice. Last, but not least, Crunch hits Celebi harder than Hidden Power Ice would, but Raikou would prefer running a Hidden Power of its choice.

    ==Checks and Counters==
    Dugtrio is the most adept method at defeating Raikou; it can switch into Thunderbolt and OHKO Raikou back with Earthquake if it is not behind a Substitute. However, Hidden Power will hurt, and Roar phazes out Dugtrio for Raikou to escape. Blissey and Snorlax laugh at Raikou with their tremendous special bulk, and can set up Calm Minds and Curses on it, both of which are problematic. Regice can laugh off Raikou's attacks to an extent, but if it runs Rest + Calm Mind, then it will most likely lose. Celebi resists Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Grass, can somewhat manage Hidden Power Ice, and can use Leech Seed to sap away its health. Swampert and Flygon dislike Hidden Power Grass and Hidden Power Ice, but they can easily dispose of Raikou with STAB Earthquake. Finally, Jolteon and Marowak are troublesome for Raikou; the former is healed by Raikou's Electric-type STAB, whereas the latter can OHKO Raikou through a Substitute with Bonemerang.

    Skeleton
    [Secret]
    *Raikou is the fastest Pokemon in OU with access to Calm Mind, and has good power and defenses to boot
    *Any unprepared team will be ripped to shreds
    *Base 115 Speed is an excellent speed tier, shared by only Starmie.
    *Easily trapped and KOed by Dugtrio
    *Struggles to get past Blissey and Snorlax

    ==Calm Mind==
    Raikou @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Substitute / Roar

    *This set is one of the most dangerous sets in OU
    *After a Calm Mind or two, Raikou can easily rampage through weakened teams
    *Thunderbolt is Raikou's main STAB, and anything that does not have the bulk or typing to tank it will be hit hard
    *Hidden Power Ice has good coverage with Thunderbolt, covering Ground and Grass-types, such as Flygon and Celebi. However, Raikou tends to lure in Swampert, and use Hidden Power Grass to KO it
    *Substitute allows Raikou to beat Dugtrio, but Roar phazes away opposing Calm Mind users, such as Jirachi and Blissey. It can also scout the opponent's team, and can secure a turn for Raikou to switch out of Dugtrio.

    *Dugtrio will always be a pain to Raikou; Porygon2 can handle Dugtrio by turning its Arena Trap ability against it and KO it with Ice Beam
    *Blissey, Snorlax, and Regice give this set a hard time; lures, such as Focus Punch Gengar, can wear them down.
    *Spikes support is handy to wear down Raikou's counters; Thus, Forretress and Skarmory are good to lay them down.
    *Dugtrio is adept at trapping Jirachi so it cannot try to start a Calm Mind war on Raikou. It also traps Magneton, who resists every attack on this set, which can be problmatic if Raikou does not run Roar.

    Raikou @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 SAtk / 28 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Rest
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Sleep Talk / Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass]

    *Bulkier Calm Mind spread that enables Raikou to take hits better, while still maintaining a decent amount of power and speed
    *With Rest, Raikou can now maintain the boosts for a longer period of time
    *Thunderbolt is a STAB attack, and everything that does not resist or is immune to it is hit hard.
    *The last move is a bit tougher to decide on. Sleep Talk allows Raikou to attack while asleep, but it is left completely walled by Jolteon and Ground-types, especially Dugtrio. Hidden Power Ice allows Raikou to hit Flygon, but the lack of Sleep Talk hurts. Hidden Power Grass nails Swampert, but now Raikou is set-up fodder for Celebi.
    *The Speed EVs allow Raikou to outpace neutral-natured base 100s, such as Adamant Salamence

    *Porygon2 can handle Dugtrio
    *If Raikou forgoes Sleep Talk, it can give free turns to the opponent. Blissey can use Aromatherapy to wake up Raikou, as can Celebi.
    *Blissey and Snorlax give this set a lot of troubles; Focus Punch Gengar is generally the best BlisseyLax lure for this. If Gengar is not of your taste, some less savory lures, such as Alakazam and Sceptile, can do the same job, but Gengar is generally the best choice.
    *Spikes hinder this set; Forretress, Starmie, and Cloyster can spin away those Spikes so they are not an issue
    *If Raikou uses Sleep Talk, then it is completely walled by Jolteon and Ground-types. Offensive Grass-types, such as Exeggutor and Ludicolo, can easily handle Ground-types, whereas Swampert and bulky Tyranitar can handle Jolteon

    *Raikou can also pull off a RestTalk set very well. With decent enough bulk and solid speed, it can use Sleep Talk before most Pokemon can move.
    *Rest allows Raikou to recover its HP
    *Thunderbolt is STAB
    *The fourth moveslot is a bit difficult; Hidden Power Grass nails Swampert, whereas Hidden Power Ice nails Flygon; both hit Dugtrio. However, Roar allows Raikou to phaze out Pokemon that tend to set up on it, such as Blissey and Snorlax.
    *The Speed EVs allow Raikou to outpace neutral-natured base 100s, such as Adamant Salamence

    *Dugtrio has no issues trapping and KOing this set; Porygon2 can handle Dugtrio
    *Blissey and Celebi complement this set by giving Heal Bell support; a cleric is not necessary, but it works very well with this set.
    *Skarmory and Forretress are good teammates, especially if Raikou uses Roar, as Spikes wears down Raikou's usual switch-ins. Outside of Spikes, they can handle physical threats that Raikou has troubles with, such as Tyranitar and Metagross.

    *Protect with Pressure allows Raikou to PP stall
    *Raikou can use Reflect to help with Dugtrio, but Substitute is generally the better choice
    *Raikou has access to both Rain Dance and Thunder, but a +1 Thunderbolt does more than an unboosted Thunder. Also, Raikou does not have the space for Rain Dance
    *Raikou has access to Thunder Wave, but it is blazing fast as is.
    *Psych Up can allow Raikou to copy boosts from the opponent, but Raikou is better off using Calm Mind
    *Crunch handles Celebi, but Raikou would prefer using a Hidden Power of its choice.

    *Dugtrio can switch into Thunderbolt and OHKO Raikou with Earthquake if it is not behind a Substitute. However, Hidden Power will hurt.
    *Blissey and Snorlax laugh at Raikou, with their tremendous special bulk. Furthermore, Blissey can set up Calm Minds on Raikou, which is a nightmare for it
    *Regice beats any Raikou lacking Rest
    *Celebi beats any set not running Hidden Power Ice
    *Swampert and Flygon dislike Hidden Power Grass and Hidden Power Ice, but they can easily dispose of Raikou with STAB Earthquake
    *Jolteon and Marowak are troublesome for Raikou; the former is healed by Raikou's Electric STAB, and Marowak can OHKO Raikou through Substitute with Bonemerang.
    [/Secret]
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2014
  2. Isa

    Isa Well-Known Tauros

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    PO Trainer Name:
    Isa
    You mention a lot of unviable/rare Pokémon in this analysis, those should probably be left outside. Machamp is never used, Medicham is rare and can't switch in on anything either way, Charizard is equally rare etc.
    Magneton takes a decent chunk of damage from every attack Raikou throws out - if you use Substitute as Magneton switches in, you get off a Calm Mind the turn afterwards and Magneton is toast, as it cannot break your Substitute with one attack.
     
  3. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    9
    PO Trainer Name:
    Alfalfa
    I will get rid of Machamp and Charizard, if you insist. However, pretty much everything else is mentionable. Just because something is rare does not mean it is unviable. Some of PO's OU and BL list indeed has rare Pokemon that are rare for a reason, but they still have usable niches that make their way into these slots (to be honest, Smogon's OU list reflects what Pokemon are among the elites in OU, but I do not want to go there, as I am more focused on explaining why I mentioned these nichemons in the analysis, and not what Pokemon are the most viable.)
     
  4. Isa

    Isa Well-Known Tauros

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    PO Trainer Name:
    Isa
    I suppose - I'm far from an ADV expert. I just think you should focus on counters that are likely to be seen rather than relatively fringe threats.
     
  5. Laurel

    Laurel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    757
    Likes Received:
    271
    Mention that not all Dugtrio kill it. Adamant versions are slower. Also, Raikou can kill something behind a substitute to avoid being trapped. There is no need to mention that it struggles vs Ludicolo and Exeggutor they are almost never used. Finally, mention that it has great synergy with other dog (Suicune) Suicune can beat Blissey 1 v 1 with rest cm roar/sleep talk surf it also beats dugtrio, raikou can check zapdos and celebi.
     
  6. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    9
    PO Trainer Name:
    Alfalfa
    I think you misunderstood what I said:

    I never said that Raikou struggled against Exeggutor and Ludicolo, I said that they could assist Raikou by taking out Ground-types.


    Calm Mind Blissey is actually viable for this reason, so only Roar variants beat it
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  7. Laurel

    Laurel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    757
    Likes Received:
    271
    Blissey is pressure stalled by Suicune, though, so in practice even versions without roar will beat blissey. Sorry for misunderstanding. Also, mention raikou pairs well with like CB heracross it can remove pokes like Snorlax and Blissey for raikou to sweep.
     
  8. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    9
    PO Trainer Name:
    Alfalfa
    After a small discussion between me and Laurel via PM, I have come to the consensus that a lure, such as SubPunch Gengar, would be more useful for this situation, as BlisseyLax is more likely to stay in on it until the Focus Punch is revealed.
     
  9. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    9
    PO Trainer Name:
    Alfalfa
    This is done; 7 months hiatus is too long.
     
  10. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    968
    Likes Received:
    744