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[Monotype] Monotype General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Gen 6 Side Metagames' started by Roku, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. IYNHE

    IYNHE New Member

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    As i read here ((http://wiki.pokemon-online.eu/wiki/Monotype)) there are a lot of dragons that are banned plus a limit of 2 dragons between some of them (for example you can't run dragonite latias AND garchomp). Is this right? Otherwise where can i find the correct rules?
    IYNHE
     
  2. TraceofLife

    TraceofLife Lucky Strike

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    Only ubers dragon are banned,and there's no limit on 2 Pokemon, you just read it wrongly :x
     
  3. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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  4. IYNHE

    IYNHE New Member

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    Cool! Thanks :D
    IYNHE
     
  5. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    What are people's thoughts on Talonflame? As someone who likes to use MonoBug it is incredibly dangerous. I'm not leaning one way or another ATM, just wanted to hear opinions.
     
  6. Brycen-Man

    Brycen-Man Member

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    Hi, I've been playing gen6 mono since the start and have seen the changes and bans as they came. It's was always a fun tier to play to see what mons people use and types ect. But lately the meta has changed to a straight steel spam tier. I've done mono events where I'd vs a steel mono in 4-5 straight rounds, and it's due to steel having an immunity to its 3 weakness. Something no other type has.Skarm/Aegi/Tran are the standard defensive core as Skarm takes ground, aegi takes fighting, and Tran takes fire. The only solution to try to break this core is using mixed mons that can hurt all 3. Example Mixed Chomp, Mixed Nape, things that can hit on 2/3 weakness. So when building a mono team you always have to think, do I have something that can break the steel core, and most of the time have to dedicate something to it forcing the direction of the team your building. An idea I got to try to ballance this would be similar to the dragon limit in gen5, Steel mono can only use 2 of the 3(skarm/aegi/tran) per team. Leaving them at least 1 weakness like every other mono team. Steel has MANY other viable mons to chose from and the type would still be good without the 3, I think it'll just bring it down back to be even with the rest of the other types.

    @Dr. Doom I use rocky helmet c rustle to deal with talon, Rocks+Feint mega pinsir is am option, at plus 1(moxie kill) Feint kills after rocks. If not rocks+feint+bb recoil kills it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2014
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  7. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    Not that I don't think it's also a pain to face and plan for, but as I've said previously we are not making another complex ban. You're also forgetting a couple of cores/movesets/strategies that deal with the core such as Scald. Dark and Ghost type moves are no longer resisted by Steel, so Dark/Ghost + Fighting makes an okay way to deal with it depending on the Pokemon carrying the moves. Only 2/3 of the Pokemon actually have reliable recovery, two of which (Heatran and Aegislash) would also occasionally prefer items that are not Leftovers. This puts the said "core" on a bit of a timer. If we are considering to ban something from Steel I'd probably say Aegislash, but at the moment we already have a Steel related suspect, so that will have to be on hold (assuming the player base states they want it suspected!).

    About Talonflame, I don't really think of it as anything broken if that's what's being implied. It's about as broken as Volcarona is because of how well it does against Grass, or Infernape because of how well it does against Steel, or Excadrill because of how well it does against Fairy. The Pokemon are obviously quite good at what they do and threaten to 6-0 certain teams, but if we were to take beating only one type as precedent for a ban we'd end up with a ridiculous amount of Pokemon being banned, and possibly even chains of Pokemon that get banned.
     
  8. Brycen-Man

    Brycen-Man Member

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    Aegi can live most dark hits and kill with ss. Skarm has bb for fighting, and special atkers bar gren can't do much the the trio. Steel also has the ability for full hazards. So yeah the core doesn't have recovery but trying to switch in the appropriate counter will keep taking entree dmg untill dead. I only play on android so idk what the steel suspect is your referring to @sulcata
     
  9. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    The current suspect is Genesect.

    For the record, I've found that full hazards aren't nearly as viable as last gen mostly due to Defog. Certain types which need hazards to be dealt with, such as Electric and Flying, got excellent methods of removing hazards such as Zapdos, Mandibuzz, Togekiss, and probably a few others I can't remember off hand.

    Being non-STAB, Sacred Sword doesn't usually kill unless it's a particularly frail Pokemon or if one invests in attack (mixed attacker with 24 or so Attack EVs and max Special Attack seems to be the standard). Of course we're talking in generalities here and assuming the Dark type attack is used as a STAB move and not a coverage move. More specific cases might help me see the point being made here.
     
  10. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    In regards to a potential Talonflame suspect:

    Tflame is a fantastic mon that can be run on Flying or Fire. The issue people seem to have with Tflame is that is makes Bug, Fighting, and Grass unplayable. This quite the 50/50 ground in my opinion. Whether you are running Flying or Fire, you will be destroying both Grass and Bug on a regular basis. Talonflame doesn't really add anything to this besides a crutch if you screw up somewhere. There is only, in my opinion, 1 situation, maybe two in which Talonflame is a big deal in the match ups. That is Fire vs. Fighting (Tflame has a huge impact) and Flying vs. Fighting (Not so much of an impact in my opinion). Grass has virtually no chance to win against either type, and the advantage is highly skewed in the Flying/Fire vs. Bug matchups. Flying vs. Fighting is more even than Flying vs. Bug, but still in Flying's favor.

    Talonflame itself doesn't break any other match ups with priority Flying STAB (Whether it is BB or Acro). My stance at the end of the day is pretty neutral. If people feel the need to ban Talonflame because it makes stacked matchups even more stacked* then feel free. I just need a little bit of convincing I suppose. sulcata made a good point in regards to Tflame with his post that I agree with when he said:

    About Talonflame, I don't really think of it as anything broken if that's what's being implied. It's about as broken as Volcarona is because of how well it does against Grass, or Infernape because of how well it does against Steel, or Excadrill because of how well it does against Fairy. The Pokemon are obviously quite good at what they do and threaten to 6-0 certain teams, but if we were to take beating only one type as precedent for a ban we'd end up with a ridiculous amount of Pokemon being banned, and possibly even chains of Pokemon that get banned.

    And about Aegislash, I wouldn't mind seeing a suspect. Not that I agree with it, but because I'd like to see the arguments for banning it. Steel is just a really good type that Gamefreak blessed with wonderful stats, moves, abilities, and incredibly synergistic typing. I don't see any individual mon broken. Steel is just really really good.

    *I would honestly give Fire the slight advantage against Fighting. Fighting has better Scarfers, but Fire has weather, better set up sweepers (imo. I guess you can debate this if you want) and better offensive pressure. Scarf Terrak, it is is being run, is huge in this matchup (needs to hit all the SE's though. Misses out on critical 0hko's because it's scarfed). Scarf Kel gets neutralized by the weather. Specs Kel suffers a bit from the speed loss and the power loss (with the sun).
     
  11. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    So I played on Showdown the other day (you don't have to wait 20 mins between Monotype matches) and I noticed that there Syamin-S and Kyurem-W are both legal! I'm not going to try and defend Kyurem-W that thing is overpowered as hell, but I wonder, what do people think about a Shaymin-S retest? While it is fast and quite powerful, it's frail as hell, weak to Stealth Rock and with both MonoGrass and MonoFlying it compounds the teams weaknesses to Ice greatly. I'm not trying to advocate that it should be retested, I just think it's worth discussing.
     
  12. Raducan

    Raducan Well-Known Member

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    Now that ORAS is out, I definitely believe we need to pick up with suspect discussions.

    I think the most obvious suspect is Mega Salamence.

    The added bulk and attack along with its incredible ability really made it more effective. After one Dragon Dance, it can pretty much OHKO 80% - 90% of the tier with STAB + Aerialite-boosted Return or Double Edge. It got its Special Attack buffed too, which means that Fire Blast will hit things like Skarmory or Bronzong harder. Unless you're running like a full team with Ice Shard, it's pretty hard to stop Mega Mence. The extra bulk really help to ensure that it gets at least one DD boost.

    It can also run a Special set with Hyper Voice too, but I don't think that's nearly as broken as the DD set.
     
  13. Maximo

    Maximo New Member

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    Mega Salamance base stats are: 95 HP, 145 Attack, 130, Defense, 120 Sp Attack, 90 Sp Defense and 120 Speed. Literally you can do anything with those stats and type. Mega Salamance has a wide coverage for every Pokemon + with the new boost it's going to be a real pain. As mentioned before after a Dragon Dance is probably impossibe to outspeed and OHKO even with a Scarfed Pokémon (unless Ice Shard) and if not outspeed the Pokemon will most probably get OHKO'd. Aerialite brought Pinsir from being a regular Pokemon in NU to a threat in OU, and now we get a bulk Dragon Dance Pseudo-legendary with that ability. Although it's not impossible to defeat Megamance wille be real pain and potencially a team sweeper.

    Another suspect could be Mega Latios (as). They are not exactly the greatest suspect of Pokemon and they also aren't the sweeper type, but the Mega is basically a Soul Dew to them (mostly for Latias). I propose people to write their opinion about them, as for me they aren't exactly qualified to be banned, but there are some scenarios which gives them a great advantage.
     
  14. Raducan

    Raducan Well-Known Member

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    Due to an unanimous decision between the 3 leaders, Salamencite has been banned from the Monotype tier.

    This ban is already in affect on the server.
     
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  15. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Excellent thread idea, hope it goes well. My questions relates to Monotype:

    I want to make a MonoRock team. What Pokémon would be good for it?
     
  16. E.T.

    E.T. METAMORPHOSIS! Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    For MonoRock, Tyranitar can be good to give the team the Special Defense boost with sand. Filter mons like Rhyperior and Mega Aggron can also be helpful with the former being able to use Weakness Policy + Rock Polish nicely. Diancie can also run WP well with Trick Room, but the mega is probably better if you aren't using a different mega.
     
  17. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    Tyranitar for sand support and defense boost.
    Cradily can absorb water type attacks which is really nice.
    Rock is pretty weak defensively so Shell Smashers like Crustle, Omastar, Barbaracle, and Carracosta are nice.
    Aerodactyl is pretty cool for revenge killing and threatening certain fighting types.
    Mega Aggron is usually the best mega for monorock since it's extremely bulky and can tank super effective physical attacks and some non-stab super effective special attacks depending on how you EV it.
    You could try Probopass as a gimmicky steel trap. Haven't tried this much myself.
    Terrakion is nice but I can't think of any specific roles it fulfills aside from threatening steels.
     
  18. Edna

    Edna Chasing the Dragon Forum Moderator Tournament Host Forum Moderator Tournament Host

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    Hi,
    I want to know if there's any way to suspect Greninja:
    Greninja is the same problem in Mono that it is in OU
    - Amazing speed
    - Perfect coverage coupled with Protean, making it awfull to play against
    It is the Genesect of Dark and Water, it can hits anything and runs many sets.
    Thanks for reading
     
  19. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    I also agree with a Greninja suspect for Monotype. Generally the best way to deal with it is through revenge killing, which isn't very reliable and obviously not a reason to keep a Pokemon in the metagame. In all honesty I think it's even more powerful in Monotype than in OU. Greninja always had the advantage in taking down more offensive, less bulky teams, which are highly common in Monotype. Greninja's coverage is a lot less limited since it can run specific moves to destroy checks and counters to its team. Protean giving everything STAB with an amazing movepool is kind of ridiculous.
     
  20. .Rawr!

    .Rawr! c(°3°)כ

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    Agreeing with this pretty much, Aegi/Skarm/Tran core its too hard to broken in most cases, now like @sulcata said, i don't think the problem is either Skarmory or Heatran, both good pokemons but with weak points, but Aegislash, which adds a lot of defensive and offensive pressure to opponents, with a lot of possible sets, from Sub toxic, to Weakness Police which absolutely sweep teams. Ya i like to see a Aegislash suspect too.
     
  21. .Rawr!

    .Rawr! c(°3°)כ

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    Idk if something will be done, but yeah, like i said before i think an Aegislash suspect is in order @Raducan @sulcata ; i think its even more important than possible Mega metagross or Mega Sableye suspects (the other controversy pokemons right now, although personally i don't consider them broken, i see what huge threats they are so i don't mind future discussions on them)
     
  22. Edna

    Edna Chasing the Dragon Forum Moderator Tournament Host Forum Moderator Tournament Host

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    Is it possible to suspect Metagross or Mega Sableye?

    Metagross: Huge movepool, ubers stats, does it job to creates huge holes in MonoSteel at least. Nothing switches on it tbh ( same as OU), unpredictable. Could develop way more if we actually suspect it.

    Sableye: That thing is just the nightmare of every type bar fairy. Sableye can turn matchups like Monodark vs MonoFighting to a dark advantage since it just needs to sit here and use calm mind+willowisp. It has very respectable bulk and kills so many mons and some types with it. The only hope MonoSteel ( which used to be the best type) has is to burn hax with Heatran Lava Plume. You cannot status it otherwise, it comes on everything called Ferrothorn and these defensive mons that will just be setup fodder. It's not as broken as Metagross is, but it's still very limatating some types usefulness, such as Fighting who is already crippled by all the psy/flying/fairy mono.

    Can develop more in the future, maybe I'm the only one feeling that these mons are toxic at the moment
     
  23. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    I don't really have an opinion on Gross. I don't really use it and don't have much experience against it. I can say theoretically it could be suspect worthy though.

    I completely agree with Sab though. It's such a pain and I think it literally makes the dark/fighting match up even.

    I do think Aegi needs the suspect first. It makes steel too good and is overall just a really solid mon. It has multiple sets that are equally difficult to deal with. The most standard Sp A set is hard enough to switch into as it is.

    I'll definitely expand more in the actual discussions. Also in a bit of a rush atm
     
  24. Edna

    Edna Chasing the Dragon Forum Moderator Tournament Host Forum Moderator Tournament Host

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    Aegislash hasn't caused me problems tbh, maybe cause I'm using Mandibuzz. It's also the only spinblocker/fighting resist Steel has. It's weak to super common moves such as Knock off, Lava plume, EQ, and the SD set is not as good as it was.

    Recently I tried a Sub Toxic with shadow ball, it's like a gliscor without reliable recovery but it still does a job. I personaly don't feel like it causes much problems but that could be me only
     
  25. [OG] Swanna Lady

    [OG] Swanna Lady Y.......Yo......You.....YOU'RE FAT!

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    Metagross isn't really worthy of a suspect in Monotype. Most teams have a variety of types anyway so it isn't even slightly over-centralizing and it's stats aren't too bad.

    I agree on Sableye and Aegislash though. Sableye can Will-O-Wisp/Taunt/Toxic/Substitute/Recover/Thunder Wave...............
    It is entirely unpredictable and can only really be beaten with Priority.

    Aegislash is by far the least predicable pokemon in the metagame and can easily wear down the opponent.
     
  26. Raducan

    Raducan Well-Known Member

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    I hope you know Mega Sableye is being discussed, not normal.

    Anyway, on MonoSteel, the combination of both Mega Metagross + Aegislash is pretty threatening because both are really hard to switch into. I'd say Aegislash is probably better because it has a wide variety of different sets but I'm fine with both of them being suspected.

    As for Mega Sableye, it definitely is a pain. It does many things extremely well (outlined in Carlmurray's post). If you don't have a Fairy-type or something to nuke it down with, it pretty much just dictates the game.

    I'd say Aegislash should be suspected first and then we can go from there.
     
  27. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    I'd definitely go for Aegi first. I honestly think it just breaks Steel as a type. You have MegaGross + Aegi as an Offensive Core and Aegi just makes the Skarm + Ferro + Tran core too strong by providing a great defensive mon that is immune to Fighting AND provides incredible Offensive support. The Steel nerf certainly helps make this core less broken but I still think it's too good.

    I'd say Aegi --> Mega Sab --> maybe Mega Metagross. I need to play more with/against it to really speak about it in Monotype.
     
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  28. gengar17

    gengar17 someone turn this nothing into gengar

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    i'm all for suspecting all three, but i'm not entirely convinced on which one should go first, aegislash is very good (OU ban worthy and all), but sableye is just so much better in mono because u cant always have a fairy type in ur teams, so it's that much harder to beat it. (eg: clefable/sylveon are fairy only, gardevoir is the only way psychic beats it, diancie is limited to rock mono since obviously fairy mono doesnt have problems with sableye, and the few other fairies cant do much or dont appreciate a burn), so yeah it's just mono fairy + a couple of limited types that can handle it, and a few select mons like chari x, mega gyara (mostly megas)
     
  29. Joyverse

    Joyverse Back for a blast!

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    I have no opinion on Mega Eye and Mega Gross tbrh but..
    Aegislash needs to be suspected ASAP, It(as Celebi said) works with megagross as an offensive core and helps the Ferro+Skarm+Tran core by giving it a fighting immunity. Basically making it a staple on steel. As for ghost it works just as fine with Mega Eye covering its mega weakness to fairy and pawning them.
    Let us suspect Aegi first! :3

    yeah 69th post lmao!
     
  30. .Rawr!

    .Rawr! c(°3°)כ

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    Very disappointed with the suspect discussions going on, we have a mon which is clearly overcentralizating in the tier and for the most part the people in this thread are calling for a suspect on it (Aegislash), and the first suspect discussion done is about mega-sableye...

    Idk the procedure how tier leaders choose what mon could be suspected next, but it seems an odd procedure to me
     
  31. gengar17

    gengar17 someone turn this nothing into gengar

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    Aegislash and MSableye both are extremely good in mono, and they have different roles and centralize in their own way, unlike sableye, almost any type can have several answers for aegislash, i wouldnt say one is particularly better than the others, just be patient and wait for the other suspects. And be glad that they are actually doing something about this.
     
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  32. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    We, the tier leaders, make a list of things we think should be suspected based on our own experiences and on suggestions from the community and go through it. It's not a super finite list, so it'd probably not get posted. Multiple people have shown that they are both for and against all the suspects mentioned. Just because you are of the opinion that it is the most important suspect does not mean it will go first.

    Aegislash, while I don't think it's "fine" in the metagame, isn't as all dominating as you're making it out to be, especially in between Mega Metagross's and Genesect's respective times in the meta. If it was really that urgent we'd "quick ban" it.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
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  33. [OG] Swanna Lady

    [OG] Swanna Lady Y.......Yo......You.....YOU'RE FAT!

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    As I said, Aegislash needs a suspect. It might not be #SUPEROMGUBERRHAXZORRSSSZOMG!!! but it is definitely needed on all steel/ghost teams and every type needs to play around it.

    Mega Metagross isn't in direct need of a suspect because every type has some common pokemon that can wall it and the Over-Centralization argument wouldn't apply as much in Monotype because it isn't as diverse a metagame.

    Mega Sableye is an odd one but I honestly can't see it being any more than a defensive version of Mega Diancie, with above average stats and a 4x weakness to a common attacking type. It can be dangerous tho so I really don't have an opinion on MSableye.
     
  34. gengar17

    gengar17 someone turn this nothing into gengar

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    50/125/115 with calm mind and cant be phazed or statused is above average?it's very good. also what x4 weakness? do tell. And fairy (x2) is definitely not a common attacking type, hardly any non-fairy uses a fairy move competitively.
     
  35. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    I don't think Aegislash needs a suspect right now. All types have something to deal with Aegislash (including Bug).
    However, I think that Mega Metagross definitely requires a suspect. It is a Pokemon that definitely limits my teambuilding, for all types. It is able to run a wide variety of moves and you often have to sack a mon, as not all types can run balanced where you can find out what Mega Metagross's moveset may be. It also has a lack of counters in almost all types, with it's insane attack stat (+ Touch Claws) compared with it's decent speed. Both Mega Sableye and Metagross are harmful to the metagame.
    In total, Mega Metagross should definitely be suspected as it has an unhealthy presence in the metagame, and restricts teambuilding.
     
  36. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    You guys do realize that there's been a mega sableye suspect up for a few days now right? Focusing on the suspect at hand is probably more prudent!

    I'm on the fence about Mega Metagross personally. So far it's been pretty disgusting, but I haven't really tried the matchup with too many types so I can't say much definitively yet. It's pretty good against my monoflying/monodragon (counterteam me!). It's among the pokemon planned to get a suspect at some point *cough*pplpostingaboutaegi*cough* ugh this cold.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  37. .Rawr!

    .Rawr! c(°3°)כ

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    Well, first of all ty for the answers, and sorry to tier leaders if i overeacted in my previous post tho. I know too what monsters are both megasableye and megagross, so im not underestimating them, i think too which suspect discussions for both them is a nice thing to have.
    Btw, i sort of disagree with all types having something to deal with Aegislash, but i better leave the aegislash talk rest for now and gonna comment in the megaeye thread.
     
  38. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    Hoopa-B (Hoopa Unbound) was banned since it was, by consensus of Raducan, Celebi., and myself, clearly broken to the point that it would degrade the metagame by discouraging the use of balance and stallish teams, causing a shift toward hyper offense. It's essentially a slower Deoxys-A with much more spammable STABs such as Knock Off and not paper-thin defenses to boot.

    It should be banned from Monotype, Inverted Battle, ORAS Cup, 1v1, and 3v3 Singles.
     
    Edna and E.T. like this.
  39. Edna

    Edna Chasing the Dragon Forum Moderator Tournament Host Forum Moderator Tournament Host

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    Calling for some suspect that we should consider:

    - Mega Metagross: Already discussed its bulk and offensive presence which is way too much for Monotype, nothing to add there.

    - Kyurem-B: Monodragon is full of powerhouse, with Fairy losing popularity ( because steel and flying everywhere) , it gained more usage and that thing has literally 0 switchins in the tier. Ice beam and Fusion bolt hits already enough, but it can also run Earth Power,Hidden Power Fire, Focus Blast,Iron Head, Flash cannon, Roost, Substitute, who make it very hard to break. Monotype being the very offensive tier, it can afford having Outrage or Choice Scarf to smash the opponent team. To be fair, this should happen to balance some matchups ( Dragon vs Flying)

    - Landorus-I: Same as Kyu-B, the Gravity set negates all levitating, flying, balloon mon and it can just spam Earth Power easily and destroy some types ( Fire,Steel,Electric) without them even trying to hit it, this pokemon has one of the best wallbreaking ability of Monotype, it should be suspected for the sake of mono
     
  40. Joyverse

    Joyverse Back for a blast!

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    all except Lando-I. That thing pretty much makes ground viable af.