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[ORAS] Inverted Battle General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Roku, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. Roku

    Roku sup nerds

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    This thread is for discussing all things in the Inverted Battle tier. Post sets you have found interesting, bring up potential suspects, and other discussion. Enjoy.

    Rules:
    All type match-ups are inverted. Immunities translate into 2x weaknesses; Abilities are unaffected.
    Banned Pokémon: Arceus, Blaziken, Darkrai, Deoxys-A, Deoxys-N, Dialga, Giratina, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Kyurem-W, Kyurem-B, Lugia, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Shaymin-S, Snorlax, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom, Hoopa-B
    Banned Items: Soul Dew, Kangaskhanite, Gengarite
    Banned Abilities: Moody
    Banned Moves: Double Team, Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, Minimize, Sheer Cold, Swagger
    Clauses: Inverted Battle, Self-KO Clause, Sleep Clause, Species Clause, Wifi Battle
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2015
  2. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    Kyub (Kyurem-B) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait:
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Return
    Straight up strongest thing in Inverse imo. Incredible typing + un-resisted coverage + stupid 170 atk. I won't be surprised if Kyub gets banned from inverse sometime later on. Pretty much all the flaws of Kyurem are gone in Inverse. The only things Kyub fears from my experience are Azumaril and Scarf Keldeo. Since it now resists two of the five priority types, and its nemesis Scizor is now OHKOd by outrage, GG Inverse
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
  3. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne macaron

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    Normal types are especially amazing in this tier: Boomburst Exploud, E-Speed Linoone, everything normal is great. Ice types are kinda good defensively (not so offensively), so Avalugg is pretty cool. And: It should be called Inverse battles over Inverted Battles
     
  4. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    There are pretty much zero checks to Mega Kangaskhan in this tier at the moment. Though it's obviously a pretty underexplored meta I get the feeling a suspect isn't far off for this thing. Nothing that's strong enough to revenge it can take a parental bonded Sucker Punch, and nothing but maybe 252 def Avalugg which isn't really the best, can actually take hits like Return from it, especially as there are no immunities or even resists for its STABs as well as getting easy +2s with its high bulk and Power-Up Punch as well as being stupidly easy to get into play, especially with its powered up Fake Out.
     
  5. Cirno

    Cirno Romantic

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    Mega Kangaskhan is pretty ridiculous. Oftentimes this thing either takes out half the opposing team or takes out half of my team. I've found that Zygarde can kinda deal with it, but this is provided it can get at least one coil up, and all it can do is phase it out, so scratch that. Else, Avalugg can take hits but not do much back. Pseudo-SD in the form of Power-Up Punch, unresisted STAB that can break subs and focus sash, Sucker Punch to kill things faster than it (although faster Sucker Punch users can beat this), amazing bulk and the fact that it gets a really strong and buffed Fake Out after Mega Evolving for instant damage to anything makes Kanga really deadly. Ban pls.

    Otherwise, this tier is really fun. Stealth Rock isn't as big a threat, so stuff like Yanmega can be used more easily in the meta, although Volcarona might be a bit too good. Also, Rapid Spin gets a buff in being effective against any type, and defug got buffed, so hazards aren't as good or prevalent as they are in the main tier. It's also kind of funny to see Aegislash be kind of terrible.
     
  6. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    Pretty funny tier.

    It just proves how important the type chart is.

    Agree with both Kyreum-B and M-Kangaskam. Ditto is pretty good too.

    This meta feels like a mix of BW and RBY.
     
  7. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    Kyurem-B is god. I run that same set except with Shadow Claw to get the jump on Normal types.

    Mega Kanga is pretty scary, it might be possible to revenge it with Mega Gengar as he now resists her Sucker Punches. Not sure yet as I haven't used it.

    Fake Out + Last Resort Ambipom is also pretty good, unresisted priority does a number on the whole tier (obviously).

    Basically anything with Extremespeed is good, especially Dragonite now that hazards are weak and Multiscale is still just as big of a threat.

    Incidentally, Grass type attacks are very good STAB too. Avalugg is also a pain except it can probably go down to special STAB easily, although having only one weakness makes it pretty annoying here, more so than in real play.
     
  8. Xinc

    Xinc Time for Oras?

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    Normal types and Dragon types are pretty much the best types in this game. Normal has unresisted coverage as it originally had no super effective hits. Dragon typed Pokemon using Dragon moves will hit everything for neutral or super effective, barring Dragon, but it still gets that as a benefit since dragons can tank another dragon move. Dragons itself aren't as strong defensively due to the original multitude of resistances.
     
  9. Dasdardly

    Dasdardly Uknown Bird

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    Dragon might be a great offensive type, but remember that it has a plethora of weaknesses now. I have a feeling that Lando-T is going to be a good Pokemon.
     
  10. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Dragon's just average I find, its new-found weaknesses in Fire, water, and grass as well as electric really make them have a hard time doing much if they're not careful. Good normal types are insane though, Mega Kangaskhan being the prime example. It's pretty damn powerful but wouldn't blow the whistle on it quite yet.

    Otherwise, I found out through getting my ass handed to me that Galvantula is actually a godsend in Inverse. Spider Web or whatever its called is such a good support move, and bug/electric is simply amazing coverage for what's being employed in the tier. Shits on the fire and flying types with bug STAB while ground gets a Thunder thrown in its face.

    I found Celebi to be a decent wall and attacker; Dragons are still good enough where they're used a lot, of course Flying pokemon abound and you've got things like Scizor lurking on teams as well, which really give it some prime moments to shine through. That grass typing is a double edged sword because of what it normally resists though.
     
  11. Raducan

    Raducan Well-Known Member

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    On the topic of Mega Kangaskhan, I believe it should be the first to suspect in Inverted Battle, just because there is basically nothing stopping it. Also, I think for Inverted Battle, we will see mons that are usually weak to Stealth Rocks be used a lot more because it doesn't affect them that much anymore.

    Grass is also pretty good as I've seen when playing this tier.
     
  12. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Normal types, specially Mega Kanga, are nearly unstoppable.

    Overwhelming the opponent with Normal attacks is just ridiculously simple, yet effective. An offensive core with Mega Kangaskhan, Diggersby and Staraptor is unwallable, so you have to rely on revenge killing to beat them.

    You can slap a scarf on Staraptor and watch it outspeed and 2HKO 80% of the metagame, sure it will kill itself eventually, but it can easily open holes in any teams. Its base 100 Speed means revenge killing this one isn't a simple task. You could also run CB and literally 2HKO the whole metagame:252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 169-199 (42.89 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (That says Torkoal but I'm calcing it with Avalugg's 95/184 bulk)

    Diggerby gets Pure Power, higher attack than Azumarill, SD, Agility and Quick Attack for good measure. Let this thing setup and something is dying, don't let it setup and chances are that something is dying anyway because it hits like a damn truck. Revenge killing Diggersby at +2 is quite hard also, for example Kyurem-B (125/100 physical defense) takes a minimum of 62% from Quick Attack.

    Mega Kanga is simply ridiculous. Fake Out is free damage on everything, Return wrecks nearly everything, Power-up Punch is a SD that does damage (which makes it great), Sucker Punch for priority, and Seismic Toss 2HKOes 95% of the tier. Expanding on the last one, only Pokemon with 99 Base HP (Tropius) or higher aren't 2HKOed by Seismic Toss, and good luck finding one that can handle its other moves after taking 200 damage. Also Kangaskhan is fat, its 105 / 100 / 100 bulk with only one weakness is simply fantastic.
     
  13. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I wouldn't say normals are nearly unstoppable, lol. Most of the worthwhile ones in OU, while strong, are really frail/weak to priority(Staraptor), slow(Diggersby) or both(Quick Attack doesn't entirely save Niggersby either). I think mega kanga's borked as fuck but that's everyone's consensus anyway. If you don't think that you're honestly a bit behind the curve of Inverse.

    That's not to say they aren't ridiculously strong, of course, just not this huge unstoppable force everyone keeps calling them. Tauros would probably do really well as a cleaner, Meloetta loves Normal not being resisted but other than that most normals still just aren't really good. Miltank's probably a very nice physical wall though, if it has something for Driggersby.
     
  14. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    Although I don't think they're unstoppable, normal types are disproportionately strong offensively; MegaKanga is the most potent, massive bulk, incredible offensive prowess and ofc perfect coverage in one 102 power STAB move. We all know what Mega Kanga does.
    Diggersby is insanely powerful, with one SD it can OHKO an incredibly large portion of Pokémon with Frustration, that said its speed can be a bit lacking sometimes and QA doesn't quite pack enough punch to OKHO all it needs.
    Staraptor is absolutely amazing, CBRaptor is strong when it's even resisted, Reckless Double Edge absolutely destroys any attempt at a defensive check, also no SR weakness makes it a little more long-lasting of a threat.

    Moltres is an extremely potent threat, Hurricane and Fire Blast still have amazing coverage and 4x resistance to rocks gives it the long effect it's always dreamed of.
    Cloyster is also another one with new life, it still packs offensive prowess as ever and now packs a load of handy resistances and a colossal defense stat to take on normal types to some degree. Shell Smash or Spiker it has its uses all round.
     
  15. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    I think you misunderstood what I was trying to day, I probably should have worded it better. Gonna elaborate a bit more this time.

    I don't think individually all Normal-types are broken or anything like that. For example, I know playing around Staraptor is perfectly possible, specially if you consider it kills itself in 3 turns.

    The problem is when you have to deal with stuff like Staraptor, Driggersby and Mega Kanga (Broken bullshit) in the same match, note that the former two can be replaced with other normal Pokemon. Defensively you can't do anything to stop them, regardless of what you do you won't be able to withstand the onslaught because Mega Kanga can easily open holes for the other Normal mons, specially with Seismic Toss 2HKOing the few Pokemon capable of "handling" Return. Offensively you have a better shot at handling these Pokemon, but Kanga's combination of god-like offensive presence, great bulk, good speed and strong priority, are still extremely threatening and still make things easier for the rest of the Normal mons.

    tl;dr Kangaskhan is bullshit and it is making normal spam ridiculously hard to stop
     
  16. Roku

    Roku sup nerds

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    I don't really see normal spam itself being able to be properly judged with Mega Kangaskhan still in the tier. A suspect is likely to happen in the near future, and the normal spam teams can be reevaluated, with other possible major threats being suspected after.
     
  17. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Ban kangaskhan. Now.

    I've spent nearly all my time playing inverse trying to build a team that doesn't get steamrolled by it and nothing works. It guarantees at least 1 kill when played poorly on otherwise lackluster teams.
     
  18. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    Pretty much the only thing that stands a chance against Kenga is Mega Gengar and that is if you are EXTREMELY lucky and bring it in on a Sucker Punch. Kenga is bulky and fast enough to take out just about anything else. Ban Kenga. Ban it now.
     
  19. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    About Kanga , if it uses fake out and breaks a Sub , the 2nd hit will flinch.

    Items are changed if they are effected by types. Air Ballon gives you a ground weakness. The weakness berries need to be tested.
    I tested Iron Ball and Macho Brace they still halve your Speed. (on PO)
     
  20. Finchinator

    Finchinator Addicted and just can't get enough

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    It has been banned, but I disagree with this as you have to predict around it, risk hitting focus miss, etc.

    Anyway, I just thought that I should mention that Bugzinator and myself (in scripted tours and a few friendly battles) are basically using Mononormal with a wildcard, occasionally, and having great success. It is incredibly unskillful and arguably the biggest flaw in the whole concept of an inverse metagame.

    Might a possible normal-nerf be implemented? I am unsure of any logistics, nor of the possibilities. However, it is plain unhealthy for the 'metagame' currently. (Just my two cents.)
     
  21. palkia62

    palkia62 Member

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    Although the stone has been banned, I need to say that technically you just need to use shadow ball because it's now super effective on normals in inverted battles.
     
  22. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I've fought "mono normal" three times already, and from what I can tell you it's completely unfair to judge it as of right now. Kangaskhan completely skewed the view that everyone has on the type itself, and we need to give it time to judge it fairly. I can also safely say that all normal type teams are not that bad at all to face. They're either extremely hard hitting but frail as hell or very bulky but lose to any kind of stall breaking pokemon.


    (15:48:20) Hikari: Ban Deo-N
    (15:48:23) Hikari: this is
    (15:48:24) Hikari: easy mode

    Basically this. I'll elaborate if I must but it's pretty straightforward. Deo-N appears, things die faster than to Mega Kangaskhan.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2013
  23. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    I've been running a really unorthodox stall team on the Inverted ladder lately with moderate success. Without Kangaskhan around, brainless Normal spam teams do not break my team without hax. Normal might be an amazing type in this metagame, but most Normal-type Pokemon lack the raw stats needed to make them unmanageable.

    This reminds me of one thing: Stop using Ambipom. Holy fuck it's complete trash, is beyond me why people believe that pos is worth using in this meta. You aren't breaking anything with Ambipom's 100 base attack and you have 0 safe switch in, so personally I'm happy when I see my opponent running it, because I love having a 6-5 advantage without doing anything.

    Anyway, Pokemonnerd already posted my opinion on Deo-N but here it is again: It's op as fuck. I'm just running LO Rash Psycho Boost (to murder anything not called Blissey / Chansey), Extreme Speed and two filler moves I haven't used once. It's really ridiculous how you can use one move to OHKO 80%+ of the Pokemon you normal find on the ladder.
     
  24. ROMaster2

    ROMaster2 Member

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    I'd like to suggest allowing Dialga and Giratina to be tested in Inverse. Off the bat the types being inverted has them take a serious hit in their survivability. They're both weak to Normal, which is very common in this meta, as well as Grass, Bug, and Poison which are fairly common. On the other had they both do have massive bulk which allows them to survive at least one Super Effective hit.

    Dialga would largely become more of a glass cannon, since its Steel typing isn't exactly beneficial here. Its movepool does still provide it fairly good coverage. Giratina could be used to keep Normal types in check, while being afraid of them at the same time. Griseous Orb isn't quite as useful as it is in XY OU with the dropped use of Earthquake, with Diggersby being the except to use it for STAB. Its bulk still allows it to withstand a Scarf'd Return from Diggersby as well, and countering with a Ghost move.
     
  25. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I'm just going to say this now, just to have it here before we actually test it:

    You have no gods to save you against Blaziken in Inverted.

    Okay, maybe something like Abomasnow or Mamoswine. Avalugg vs SD sets. Or steels in general. Baton Pass still exists though, hence the testing.

    EDIT: Yeah blaziken's not as amazingly broken as I'd hoped.

    Here's a question though: what exactly stops CB Kyurem-B outside of Salamence and reflect Cresselia? Since Ice all of a sudden isn't that bad of a typing, it can pretty much use its incredible bulk to its fullest now.\

    EDIT2: (22:35) Respectable Tier: The thread is already supporting its ban, of course minus that random Pokemonnerd that loves to post in metas he doesn't even care to play.

    Yes, I'm the only one who brought it up and the entire thread is supporting its ban. Also I do play this tier, thank you. How about you take the time to read?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  26. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    Hi, I would suggest a suspect on Chansey or Kyu-B quite soon.

    The former renders any special attacker completely useless while it's around, its only weakness is Ghost and that is entirely uncommon on physical Pokémon; and where it is present, it's something pathetic like Shadow Claw, making it difficult to kill on that side even. You need something like a Band Terrak or Kyu-B or Diggersby to really take it down effectively and I just think that's far too strong of a Pokémon to have around. (Idk about Bliss, might be just as bad but it is significantly weaker on physical side)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 523-616 (74.28 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Welp it lives

    The latter is insanely strong, it comes in and resists rocks and then can literally just click the Outrage button on any team that doe isn't have a Dragon, and any team that does Fusion Bolt will do a huge number on any dragon. -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 122-144 (30.96 - 36.54%) -- guaranteed 4HKO ; This is about the only one that can take it.
    It can also run mixed sets, but honestly it doesn't need to. A CB set with Return/Fusion Bolt/Outrage and Dclaw does all Kyu-B would ever need to.

    Ban Blaziken too damn, it's dumb.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  27. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    I personally don't believe Chansey is broken. Sure, it's slightly better than what it is in normal modes because of the Fighting resistance and and the fact nothing is immune to Seismic Toss, but it still is Chansey. It has no offensive presence which makes it a sitting duck against a fuckton of setup sweepers, lack of Leftovers means wearing it down isn't that hard and that it hates residual damage, Knock Off murders it and strong physical attackers can still break through it.

    Kyurem-B in the other hand is broken as fuck. Its ass typing is actually really good in Inverted, because it resists Stealth Rock, the only priority it's weak to is Aqua Jet (Uncommon) and has a couple of nice resistances, which allows it to abuse its massive 125 / 100 / 90 bulk. But Kyurem-B's bulk isn't the most threatening thing about it, the combination of massive 170 Atk stat means that with a Choice Band it 2HKOes everything except Defensive Salamence with Outrage and Fusion Bolt for coverage. Mixed sets have no real counters, not even Salamence because Focus Blast or the uncommon HP Grass murder it, but playing around those sets is "easier" because it has less immediate power. I've been running Sub Hone Claws and I can actually use defensive Salamence lacking Roar as setup fodder, it also sets up on other stuff but Mence is its only "counter". Kyurem-B is frankly ridiculous, in the hands of a good player it gets kill after kill and the only real way to "stop" it is revenge killing.

    Blaziken is also pretty ridiculous. With just HJK it 2HKO most of the tier unboosted and nothing is immune to it, you can run a moveset of Protect / Baton Pass / Hi Jump Kick / Sword Dance without having any real coverage problem, so "4MSS" isn't an issue for Blaziken in Inverted. If you can't sweep with Blaziken, just Baton Pass to something like Diggersby or Kyurem-B and enjoy winning. Is really hard not getting swept by / because of Ken thanks to its ridiculously overpowered HJK, Baton Pass and Speed Boost.

    I believe the latter two Pokemon I mentioned deserve a suspect asap.
     
  28. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Note that when I said:

    I pretty much meant that I was disappointed how it couldn't sweep everything on its own like I originally thought.

    I don't think I need to echo what weavile and BR said on Kyurem-B, it's pretty insane and has no walls outside of Salamence. Amazing bulk backed up by the ability to run a sub hone claws set or just be a nigh-unbreakable pseudo phazer with said subs against slower stall teams. But just with the banded set alone it breaks the tier over its knee, and unlike standard play it doesn't have those nasty physical weaknesses that hold it back as much. Then there's the mixed set which pretty much only fails to 2HKO Chansey/Blissey and maybe Umbreon.
     
  29. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Absolutely Kyube needs to be gone asap, it's extremely broken. A wide variety of sets, able to 2hko literally everything that isn't like, max def Salamence, with lefties, let alone any other item, really top bulk and a good in inverse defensive type (though it has problems with Scald that's less of a big deal in inverse), 101+ HP subs, ability to easily go mixed (see BR's hone claws set, you just can't wall that), etc etc. It's really completely unstoppable with zero support required, though Sticky Web doesn't go amiss anyway.
     
  30. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    Aside from Kyreum , i think we need a normal type limitation. 3 or 2 should be fine.

    Watch Kyreum gone and a normal takes the spot. Im considering Porygon2 as a replacement.
    This would be normal number 4 in my team. And its not a mono normal team.
     
  31. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    No. There will never be another "limitation" or complex ban in the side tiers as long as I am leading. It is unnecessary and 100% of the time play styles need to adapt or Pokemon need to be banned. Also, Porygon2 fulfills a completely different role than Kyurem-B, I am not sure why you would add it as a replacement.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  32. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    A lot of the normal types are simply powerful by themselves, but really many of the have glaring flaws, honestly. Just to give some off the top of my head:

    Ambipom: Yeah, 100 attack gets you absolutely nowhere against any wall worth its weight in Defense. Fake Out doesn't even do 50% to things like Azumarill, and the output is even worse versus naturally bulky attackers like Zapdos, and its Last Resort is even weaker than Exploud's Boomblast. Speaking of which...

    Exploud: Boomblast doesn't save this thing. It can barely do 45% to special defensive Celebi, and like Ambipom's problem with Last Resort, Boomblast just fails to deliver in terms of breaking even the more common attackers in the tier; the fact that it has to have specs makes it simply damage something then die due to how slow it is. It has marginal utility in the sense that it can sometimes beat certain Meloetta sets by virtue of immunity to Hyper Voice, but otherwise there are much better pokemon to experiment with than being captivated by "OH MY GOD NORMAL IS UNRESISTED SPAM IT!"

    Snorlax: Alright, now onto the actual good pokemon that share the Normal type. Snorlax is a beast, obviously. It's actually the best pokemon in existence, only tying with Ekiller Arceus because of the fact that it stole Extremespeed and Recover from Snorlax. However, Inverse is surprisingly a physically based tier. Even looking past Blaziken and Kyurem-B, you still have titans like Garchomp, Diggersby(ironically normal typed), Tyranitar and Landorus-T roaming around, all of them can take down Snorlax one on one. Terrakion doesn't like a normal move from it but let it switch in and you'll at least be left with a near dead Snorlax. Curse is nice as always, but it falls into the trap of having lackluster Defense before you get to +2 and you essentially have to invest in Special Defense. Assault Vest Snorlax is actually pretty cool for special threats, but it's only good for special threats and things like Mega Alakazam, Meloetta and even walls like Umbreon can still use things like Psyshock or Foul Play and still beat you.

    Staraptor: Always annoying, Staraptor is a very intimidating pokemon to face. It has one glaring flaw however; for all that power, its bulk is limited and its damage output is ultimately the same as Garchomp's or Terrakion's. There's also the problem that combined with its bulk, it also has to use Brave Bird and Double Edge to muscle through the premier walls of the tier; even then, Cresselia, Deoxys-D, defensive Celebi or Mew, Umbreon and Mandibuzz all can withstand non-Choice Band attacks. It can't get past the intimidaters(Arcanine, Salamence, Landorus-T) without a Choice Band, and aside from that you have that 100 base speed tier, leaving you out paced by the aforementioned Terrakion and Garchomp along with some other pokemon like Gengar and a slew of mega evolutions. Terrakion doesn't want to risk switching in most of the time, but it can certainly find its way in there between Brave Bird, Roost and Close Combat(on sets not using sub for whatever reason) to try and KO with Close Combat.

    Porygon-Z: Obviously the special attacking nuke Normal has to offer, Download specs Porygon-Z is straight up unable to be walled. Adaptability to a lesser extent. The only problem with it is that it has a middling speed tier of 80 and has poor defenses for OU standards. It probably will get a kill in a game by virtue of hitting so damn hard, but it never really goes into broken territory. It just can't break through everything with only Tri Attack without specs, and specs is too slow and frail.

    Diggersby: Normal/Ground Azumarill is actually really cool, and needless to say the coverage is there. But the 80 speed doesn't help it as much and Quick Attack isn't the back breaking priority it needs to really set it apart from any of the other powerful pokemon with priority(Lucario, Scizor, fucking Dragonite's Espeed). I mean sure, it's nice for revenging some weakened attackers, but most things worth using in the tier need to be at least under 40% to be cleanly revenged by the rabbit. Otherwise, you can't really do much with it. SD Niggersby is great for cleaning up walls but falls on its face against bulky offense, and the aforementioned unboosted quick attack gets in the way of checking some things. It's overall a nice pokemon but it doesn't really contribute to Normal as a typing being broken.

    Porygon2/Chansey/Blissey: I've lumped these together because Pory2 and the pink blobs serve one purpose: be as bulky as possible and maybe throw out status or hope that Download raised your special attack so you're not turned into set up bait. Because, that's what these three are. Walls that have little offensive presence that are easily set up on. There's not much more to say, really.

    And seriously, normal types as a whole fit the "jack of all trades, master of none" group of pokemon. Most of them are pretty good in their own right(again Ambipom and Exploud are garbage), but they all have at least one very crippling weakness(Snorlax's bad Defense, Staraptor's defenses in general, Diggersby's lackluster speed) that stops each individual one from reaching that broken level. This in turn affects their ability to form a team, and stops Normal as a whole from becoming too much.

    Really, Kangaskhan was the only thing breaking "Normal spam" and that's simply because it could normally take 2 pokemon down with it.
     
  33. Xdevo

    Xdevo Time's Arrow Keeps Marching On Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    I really think MegaGengar needs a Suspect. Even though it's defensive typing is a lot worse in this mode, Sludge Bomb / Wave + Shadow Ball is nearly unresisted, and Perish Trap strategies are just as fucked up as they are in standard play. The fact that it can switch in on either a kill or slow voltturn and be nearly guaranteed a kill at least once a match is simply ridiculous.
     
  34. Mr. Perry

    Mr. Perry wat Forum Moderator Tour Director Forum Moderator Tour Director

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    Mr. Perry
    I've played with a Darmanitan in Inverted, and he is so cool omg.
     
  35. Axe Garian

    Axe Garian New Member

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    [SLCFR] Axe Garian
    Linoone @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HPs / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Extremespeed
    - Shadow Claw
    - Belly Drum
    - [Filler]

    Await a chance, set up the Belly Drum on something that won't take ya down outright, the even HPs make sure that Gluttony Sitrus Berry activates, sweep as much as ya can.

    Edit: In hindsight, i'm not sure if even Shadow Claw is needed... I can't remember where that Damage Calculator thing is at so I dunno if Shadow Claw super-effecting on Normal will do any more damage then normal damage STAB Extremespeed...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
  36. Xdevo

    Xdevo Time's Arrow Keeps Marching On Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    I don't see how Breloom is broken. It's extremely frail; it has a lot of common weaknesses and still takes a lot of damage from anything it resists, even weak attacks do a lot of damage to it. Grass and Fighting don't have that great coverage in Inverted either. Overall, Breloom doesn't have the speed, the coverage, nor the bulk to actually net multiple kills.

    Also, simply listing something's good traits to say it's broken is pretty lazy. Every Pokemon has downfalls, and it's important to keep those in mind if you want to make a convincing argument.
     
  37. Axe Garian

    Axe Garian New Member

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    [SLCFR] Axe Garian
    Plus in Inverse Battle, Normal Types are gonna resist that Mach Punch... Maybe try downing that troublesome Breloom with a Normal Type. :tongue:
     
  38. Princess Luna

    Princess Luna Resident Pegasister

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    Diggersbytho
    b laughin at yo brelooms dual stab
     
  39. tsuike

    tsuike Member

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    Before Mega Gengar gets a suspect, I'd suggest Snorlax. Very few things actually counter it(even with it's lackluster defense, curse is surprisingly easy to set up due to it's high hp), and with it's typing, nothing is immune or even resists a return. Hazers and Phazers only force it out, not really taking care of the problem, and many shadow tag perish songer's can't take return(since they nine out of ten times are weak to it, and it's generally got a curse set up already to one shot things. Other perish trappers usually just have bad defense) Having played a few tours, I definitely have to say that this thing is a monster and can sweep entire teams on it's own. Burning or toxicing it won't work due to Rest/SleepTalk/Return/Curse being the main set. Anything that Mega Gengar is a shaky check to is definitely a huge threat to the point of wrecking the tier. If I had a damage calculator that worked with inverted I'd definitely show some stats.

    Most people you've faced probably arent' using normal types with good defense or Snorlax.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2014
  40. Black Ghost

    Black Ghost Member

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    Ness
    Ok this has been mentioned a few times but lets discuss it, Id like to see Dialga being tested in Inverse.
    1. It is weak to 10 types (including the ever-so-popular Normal type and is x4 weak to Grass)
    2. Its speed isn't great at 90 and its bulk isn't godly
    3. Its the only Dragon not to resist Dragon
    4. Ok roar is useful but it can't really boost/recover (Just noticing more ppl should use Psych Up in this tier)
    5. It's weak to Stealth Rock and its ability is pretty redundant.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014