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[Inverted Battle] Kangaskhanite Suspect Discussion

Discussion in 'Gen 6 Side Metagames' started by Roku, Nov 6, 2013.

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  1. Roku

    Roku sup nerds

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    [​IMG]

    Discuss the possibility of Kangaskhanite being banned from the Inverted Battle tier.

    Try to make intelligent posts based off of experience in the tier. Posts based off theorymon are at risk of being infracted.

    Try to find the checks and counters of Mega Kangaskhan as well as its impact and power in the tier. Do not simply say "it's broken" or "it's not broken". Back up your arguments on why you think it should be banned or not.

    If a consensus is reached, the result will likely be implemented in the tier. Happy suspecting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  2. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    Kengaskhan has one resistance and one weakness defensively. Three types are weak to its STAB, and no types resist/are immune. It has enough bulk to tank a Gengar's Shadow Ball (not mega) with no investment. 252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 264-312 (77.41 - 91.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Kenga can reach +2 attack in one turn while dealing damage, it can attack twice per turn, effectively destroying substitutes, and it has access to two priority moves. Fake out is free damage on the whole tier, Power-Up Punch is a SD that does enough damage to KO many pokes, Return/Frustration is worse than outrage ever was gen 5. The only thing I've found that reliably takes it out is a Mega Gengar switching in after something fell to it. The only problem is that Gengar has to be Mega Evolved when switching in, otherwise Kenga can just switch out and destroy your team later.

    Summary: Stupid boosting, stupid coverage, good defenses, absolute best typing, and an incredible ability make Kengas a broken and nearly unstoppable threat in the inverse meta. Ban

    EDIT: When paired with sticky web it becomes even more stupid. Its decent speed allows it to out speed nearly the entire non scarfed tier with sticky web in play, meaning it gets to spam return more. Scarf Latios is a decent revenger, but it takes ~60% from a +2 sucker punch.

    EDIT 2: Seismic Toss is another stupidly broken thing Kanga can abuse. 200 fixed damage 2HKOs pretty much the entire un-invested game, and it takes a base 99+ HP to not be 2HKOd from full with full investment.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  3. Skura

    Skura New Member

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    From my experiencein the ladder while using and facing Kangaskhan it's too powerful. It has good coverage and good typing. It's STAB move is one of the strongest moves with no drawbacks and it has 100% accuracy. At +2 it can KO Gliscor (maxhp, maxdef) with one single Return. Sucker Punch gives it priority which lets it set up without worrying going below 50% HP. It's very strong and probably the best set-up sweeper atm, but one pokemon has to be the best. I think it's hard to decide wether it should be banned or not but if I had to choose, I'd say yes. It's a bit too strong but can still function in OU. I would give it more time for people to adapt to it.
     
  4. Hannah

    Hannah Come a little closer

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    Please do note that this is a suspect discussion for Inverse Battles and not regular OU, hence it being placed in the Side Metagames forum.

    The whole reason Mega Kangaskhan is broken is because Normal typing in inverse battles is unresisted, and hits defensive types like Steel and Rock for Super effective. It has no drawbacks to its power and 70% usage is enough to dictate that people are abusing its power in the tier.
     
  5. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Please do not post without paying any atention at all to where you are posting. This is for Inverted OU, not our standard OU tier. Here, Normal hits Ghost super effectively, and fighting type attacks also hits Ghost types super effectively. Actually, in this tier nothing resists Normal type attacks, which makes Kangaskhan so strong. Power Up Punch is a guaranteed Swords Dance with added damage, and the only way to retaliate is either priority to avoid sucker punch or a very high defense stat to tank a return - and if you have the kind of bulk to do that you won't be doing meaningful damage anyway, what with that huge bulk. It does only really have one set with basically one move slot that can be filled with anything, but unlike standard play all you need is normal STAB and you hit everything at least neutrally.

    EDIT: I swear hannah's post wasn't there 5 minutes ago. I hate being slow. Or posting from a phone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  6. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Anyone who's faced Mega Kangaskhan with a prepared team in the Inverse ladder can attest to how ridiculous it is. Thanks to its perfect unresisted coverage in one powerful move, multiple priority options, high bulk, great defensive typing and easy setting up, it's essentially uncheckable in the Inverse tier. It has a small amount of 4MSS via Fake Out, Return/Double Edge, Sucker Punch, Power-Up Punch, Seismic Toss, Shadow Claw. Note that Seismic Toss is guaranteed to 2hko any physical wall that has a hope of tanking unboosted Returns (Cloyster, Gyarados, Salamence, Torkoal, Avalugg, etc). Shadow Claw is basically only run to attempt to check other Kangaskhan. It also has an extremely easy time getting into play thanks to its 105/100/100 bulk and great defensive typing, this also helps it to tank a huge majority of hits that attempt to revenge it, if Sucker Punch doesn't OHKO the revenger to begin with.

    At the moment people are really running multiple physical walls in their teams to have any hope at all of dealing with Kangaskhan. The best I've seen so far has been Max Def Rocky Helmet Garchomp. Which is pretty ridiculous to be running and is entirely for Kanga.

    It definitely needs to be banned.
     
  7. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    Agree with everyone. Its so overpowered. No switch in, no checks, your whole team has to check it.
    The ways to check it are literally only Reflect, WoW, your M-Kanga and pure force (Spec Latios & CB Kyruem-B).

    On the team i won a few tours i had all 4 softchecks + 30% burm/para chance + 1 Sub user. M-Kanga still remained a huge thread.
    Not to mention the sweeps of my own M-Kanga.
     
  8. Roild

    Roild Member

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    Fake out speed and essentially any combination of other moves can one-shot most of the tier. At +2, Mega Kanga can take down Avalugg and Chansey. Nothing can try to set up on it after he's wrecking enough and kanga almost guarantees 1+ kills if used correctly. Gengar barely does anything and power up punch just destroys it while powering up even more. Yeah, ban.
     
  9. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    There's no "almost" about it to be honest: unless your opponent uses it in the absolute worst way making every misplay imaginable, Kangaskhan enters the field and something is dying to it, in the best case scenario. Superb bulk, great attack stat, unresisted coverage in a high powered STAB move, and not great but more than good enough speed is just far too much to handle. If this were standard play it would merely be a good pokemon, but here its method of buffing Attack is unresisted and you can't depend on 4 move-slot syndrome to pivot around its attacks. If it didn't have that second hit it would be completely manageable. But, that extra tacked on damage makes a ton of 3HKO's into 2HKO's, and what offensive pokemon that can barely survive one attack just die to the second in that turn.

    The stone needs to be banned as soon as possible.
     
  10. PichiTheShinyPichu

    PichiTheShinyPichu I'm not amused

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    Nothing can truly check or counter Mega Kangaskhan in this tier. Unresisted STAB, one weakness, great stats overall, and priority within Fake Out and Sucker Punch. Power-Up Punch is essentially a Swords Dance that deals damage. Sashes/Sturdy can't save you, and there's the option to run Seismic Toss for 200 damage (in other words, your wall doesn't have much of chance anymore). Your best bet is likely to revenge kill it with Mega Alakazam or Mega Gengar; the former only manages to do so because it traces the Parental Bond to kill with Shadow Ball. Even then, neither are guaranteed OHKOs if there's no prior damage (based from what I calculated), and the fact that both need their mega stones to do this just proves how ridiculous Mega Kanga is.

    Broken without a doubt.
     
  11. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    No particular arguments about why it's not broken and a plethora of arguments for banning it. Kangaskhanite is now banned from the Inverted Battle tier.
     
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