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[Monotype] Blaziken Suspect

Discussion in 'Gen 6 Side Metagames' started by sulcata, Nov 16, 2013.

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  1. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    Discuss the possibility of banning Blaziken (and consequently Mega Blaziken) from the Monotype metagame.

    Post intelligently based off of experience in the tier. Posts based off theorymon risk forum infractions.

    Attempt to find the checks and counters (or lack thereof) for Blaziken as well as its impact and power in the metagame. Do not simply say "it's broken" or "it's not broken". Back up your arguments on why you think it should be banned or not.

    If a consensus is reached, the result will likely be implemented in the metagame. Happy suspecting.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  2. Olivine

    Olivine Member

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    First, let's define the most used items and moves on Blaziken:

    -Leftovers
    -Life Orb
    -Blazikenite (Reminder: Mega Blaziken 80/160/80/130/80/80)

    -Fire Blast
    -Flare Blitz
    -Hidden Power [Ice]
    -Hi Jump Kick
    -Earthquake
    -Protect
    -Baton Pass
    -Swords Dance
    -Knock Off
    -Poison Jab
    -Blaze Kick

    It gets a lot more moves, but they aren't really worth considering/used.
    _______________________________
    Personal considerations:

    Blaziken is ridicolous. It has more than a single role on a team. It has no problem with running Fire Blast/HP Ice on a mixed set to get rid of physical walls. Even without either of these moves, after a Swords Dance, it has more than 80% to 2HKO a Slowbro after rocks with Hi Jump Kick, meaning it will not be able to switch in. Or it can just run Knock Off. Or it can just baton pass the boosts to another mon that will definitely enjoy them. (Terrakion, Charizard X, Scrafty, almost every pokémon in Mono Fighting.)

    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 175-207 (44.52 - 52.67%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 343-406 (87.27 - 103.3%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (knocking off an item).
    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 298-351 (84.18 - 99.15%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 312-369 (88.13 - 104.23%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Chandelure is immune to both of Blaziken's stabs, but dies to either Knock Off or Earthquake.

    I believe that, out of the entire tier, only Azumarill, Intimidate Gyarados (this means, it won't be able to mega until Blaziken is dead) and Talonflame can stop Blaziken. When facing Blaziken, you don't know at first what's coming to get you. You don't know if it's going to be a passing set or a sweeping set, you don't know what moves will be on a sweeping set. You can't have it accumulate Stealth Rock damage by forcing it out, in case you have a pokémon that can take a hit from Blaziken, you are likely to be not able to outspeed it at +2. Blaziken can enter on a decent amount of things, and can take some hits too, so it's not even hard to get it to +1/+2 speed.

    I vote ban.
     
  3. FireDeath

    FireDeath New Member

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    Excuse if I am doing this wrong because I have never added commentary on suspecting banning threads

    I believe that blaziken could Mega Evolve into a terrorizing Pokemon not to recon with. I personally use Blaziken for Fire [ and sometimes fighting] mono-type and Blaziken may be big and powerful but if used correctly a lot of Pokemon can take him out in 1 hit opposed to the 2 hits Blaziken have to use to defeat ( mostly water types ) with a lot of his moves. Another this is, Most people want to ban Blaziken because of blazikinite which i agree should be tested on but Blaziken himself shouldn't considering that a lot of psychic and flying types including Crobat, TalonFlame, Alakazam, Latios, etc. out speed blaziken if used first turn.Plus since Blaziken doesn't have any electric or grass moves water would become a real pain for blaziken to even take down considering it would take Blaziken to attack twice. Frankly, there are a lot more dangerous Pokemon than Blaziken in mono-type that needs to be worried about ( i'm talking about that abused steel ). Also there is literally 1 fire Pokemon not banned that can take a water hit on without being super effective making fire extremely valuable. Hippowdon doesn't even care if blaziken in Mega or not.

    I vote not banned.
     
  4. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    I figured I'd comment to say that this isn't a "voting thread" and there's no reason to vote unless one's position isn't clearly represented by one's post, which I'd hope isn't the case.

    Blaziken generally doesn't have to worry about being outsped by anything. It protects as it mega-evolves and gains a +1 boost while simultaneously safely evolving. If the opponent switches out, which most likely they will as Blaziken is only brought in on Pokemon it can set up on due to its general frailty, then the player can Protect again due to it failing or even take advantage of the situation and use Swords Dance. Generally High Jump Kick and Flare Blitz are more than enough to take down most of Monotype. Anything Blaziken cannot KO (such as water, ghost, fire, and some flying types) are taken care of by its common teammates such as Terrakion, Scrafty, Breloom, and Keldeo.

    Personally I'm leaning more towards broken noting the lack of counters from a majority of Monotypes and the overall ease of being able to switch into a counter with Monofighting's wide array of offense. I'll still be testing, but that's just my two cents.
     
  5. Roku

    Roku sup nerds

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    It should also be noted that the boosts it gets can be easily baton passed to any of those teammates as well, though it does lose out on one of its moves if you choose to pass, but a Protect/SD/Flare Blitz/BP set is still incredibly powerful and can pass to threats such as Mega Lucario, Terrakion, or Mega Charizard X on fire.

    Talonflame can definitely check Blaziken pretty easily if rocks are off, with priority SE flying moves and resistance to both STABs, and Landorus-T can come in against it and intimidate it down a stage in attack and kill in return, but if it gets a SD up on the switch, loses. Azumarill, Chandelure, and a bulky Gyarados set, already mentioned, can also handle it for the most part. Jellicent can take care of Blaziken as well.

    It should be noted, though, that all of the checks I mentioned combined only account for six types, meaning 12 types have no specific check or counter I can think of at the moment, and have to play around it very well or get very lucky to beat Blaziken. Overall I'm leaning toward broken, though my mind isn't quite made up.

    Edit: As brought up by Nicehat, there are a couple of mons I forgot in my checks list, [email protected] resist the STABs and ohko back, and Slowbro isn't getting broken any time soon. That adds 3 new types that can check Blaziken off the top of my head, bringing the total to 9. Though he also mentioned the issue of sun, which reduces the water weakness and boosts the power of Flare Blitz to godly levels. All things to consider with the suspect.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  6. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    This thread, like all other Monotype discussions, has had both very few participants and very low quality posts. I don't think I can say I am disappointed at this point when the turnout is as expected. The general idea seems to be that the forms are overpowered. I have not seen any particularly compelling arguments for "not broken" and very few checks and counters have been discussed. As a result, Blaziken is now banned in Monotype.
     
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