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[Grammar] Heracross

Discussion in 'UU Analyses' started by Dr. Doom, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    [​IMG]

    Overview

    Heracross looked all set to dominate UU again with its new mega evolution, but the recent round of suspects dealt it a huge blow. Now stripped of its Mega Evolution, Heracross finds it much harder to compete with other Fighting types in the tier, like Terrakion, Mega Medicham and the new threat Lucario. It does still have a niche though: its STAB Megahorn allows it to blow through defensive Psychic types like Mew and Slowbro that other Fighting types fear to face. It also has 2 great abilities in Guts and Moxie, with the former giving it a free Choice Band boost if it gets Poisoned, Burnt or Paralysed and the latter making it more powerful with each KO. While it's not the metagame defining force it was in Gen 5, Heracross is still worth using.

    Choice Scarf
    Heracross @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    Jolly Nature (+Spd -SAtk)
    EV: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Close Combat
    Megahorn
    Stone Edge
    Knock Off / Earthquake

    While most Pokémon who hold a Choice Scarf do so with the aim of revenge killing, Heracross is one of the few who can legitimately sweep thanks to Moxie. Close Combat and Megahorn are the STAB moves. Stone Edge gets coverage on opposing Flying, Fire and Bug types. Knock Off gets a strong hit on incoming Ghosts, although Heracross probably still shouldn't stay in on them while Earthquake does heavy damage to Doublade and Toxicroak, who otherwise resist every other move on this set.

    The EVs are dead simple - max speed, max power.

    Wallbreaker
    Heracross @ Choice Band / Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    Jolly Nature (+Spd -SAtk)
    EV: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Close Combat
    Megahorn
    Stone Edge
    Knock Off / Facade

    Capitalising on Heracross's formidable power, this set is designed to smash holes into the opponent's team for its teammate to clear up later. Close Combat and Megahorn again serve as Heracross's STABs and 2HKO most things that don't resist them. Stone Edge shreds the Flying types that resist Heracross's STABs, 2HKOing 252/252 Bold Zapdos. Knock Off can remove Eviolites and hurt Ghost types hard, while Facade can be used with the Toxic Orb to have a strong reliable attack since all 3 of Heracross's other moves have drawbacks.

    The EVs simply maximise speed and power.

    Other Options

    Swords Dance can be used to give Heracross insane power, but it will lack vital coverage and it can be difficult to set up due to its average speed. While Heracross does have access to priority in Quick Attack, it's much too weak to do anything significant. A Substitute + Focus Punch set could lure in and break a few walls but beyond that it doesn't accomplish much the existing wallbreaker set doesn't. Earthquake could be used on the wallbreaker set to hit Doublade harder, although Knock Off already cripples it.

    Checks and Counters

    Defensive Ghost types in general are a massive pain for Heracross, resisting both of its STABs and crippling with Will-O-Wisp. Cofagrigus in particular fears almost nothing Heracross can do, since Mummy will take away Moxie & Guts. Granbull can take almost most of what Heracross can dish out and OHKO with Play Rough. If it hasn't grabbed a Moxie boost yet, Scarf Heracross is fairly easy to shut down - just switch in a bulky Ghost/Poison/Flying/Bug/Fairy type and you should be OK.

    Failing that, the wallbreaker set is fairy easy to revenge kill. Choice Scarf Chandelure, Tornadus-T, Infernape, Victini, Arcanine, Darmanitan, Crobat, Staraptor, Mega Gardevoir and Mega Medicham (although they need to have already mega evolved) all outrun and can OHKO with their respective super effective STABs but can't switch in
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  2. Daybreak

    Daybreak can't touch this

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    Couple things I would like to point out,

    The mega heracross set should be the first set mentioned imo as it is the most threatening. Investing 204 speed will allow you to outrun all non-invested base 100 pokes which could be mentioned as a side note. Also you should probably note that running rock blast and knock off on the same set is illegal with 5th gen tutor and breeding moves.

    The choice scarf set looks good but i would recommend shifting the 4hp investment into special defense so you have a odd number of hp (mainly my own paranoia). Looks good otherwise.

    The guts set hits only slightly harder then the megacross set so I would emphasize in it's speed stat more so jolly is a better fit for it in most scenarios. Otherwise swords dance could also be listed for wallbreaking potential in the set.

    I personally feel that bulk up should only be mentioned in other options due to it's lack luster speed. It does have some good bulk but it's hard to fully utilize the boosts. Also you lack a coverage move which can let an appropriate wall come in easily bu that is just me.

    Finally in OO rest talk heracross is a honorable mention as it's increased defenses and typing when mega evolving allow it to sponge hits easily while dealing them back out even uninvested.
     
  3. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    status orb is a niche option at best this gen and probably doesn't deserve a full set, just make a non-choiced heracross set with SD or something and mention the status orbs as an option in the set comments

    deslash arm thrust wherrever it's mentioned and put it in other options

    EQ needs a mention or a slash on all sets due to it being the hardest hitting attack against doublade, chandy, and rachi
     
  4. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  5. The Dude

    The Dude The Mannis

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    Hey man good job on the analysis!

    All I want to say is some things on Granbull in the Checks and Counters. You say that Play Rough OHKO's Heracross but this only applies to Normal Cross. Even a 252 Atk+ Play Rough can't OHKO 252 HP Mega Cross. Maybe some differentiation between Normal and Mega should be added. Also

    -1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 115-140 (29.9 - 36.4%) -- approx. 41.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    I think this Granbull set should be mentioned in the Checks and Counters not the 252 HP.

    That's what I wanted to say, nice work.
     
  6. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Reckon the old SubPunch set is still worth mentioning?

    Heracross @ Heracronite
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant nature

    -Substitute
    -Focus Punch
    -Pin Missile
    -Rock Blast / Bullet Seed

    great neutral coverage, Focus Punch doesn't cripple mega Hera's bulk, tanks hits well, subs can survive some weak attacks, etc etc. Example:

    4 SpA Jellicent Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Heracross: 73-87 (20 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

    That's about all I got though. Looks solid otherwise.
     
  7. Daybreak

    Daybreak can't touch this

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    I wouldn't say better more so then just hitting different things so I would recommend slashing knock off next to rock blast

    no i'm saying add swords dance within the status orb section next to somthing else for true wallbreaking potential.
     
  8. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Hmmm i don't think sub sets w/o leftovers are too viable, as you get worn down quite quick, and one of Heracross best counters Sylveon has Hyper Voice which ignores Sub anyway (as well as other mons such as infiltrator Crobat/Noivern and Mega Gardevoir). Also it leaves you without a reliable Fighting STAB option, so if you can't get a free sub up you cant break through Steel + Rock types as easy.

    Also just as a general note i definitely think Close Combat/Pin Missile/Earthquake/Rock Blast is the best moveset Heracross can run.
     
  9. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I tried out the Sub Punch set, and while it was great against stall teams it got worn down incredibly quickly and as Afro said Sylveon couldn't care less if you're behind a Sub or not thanks to Hyper Voice.
     
  10. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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  11. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    Unlocking, since Dr. Doom has all his current analyses completed
     
  12. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    OK, now in Skeleton format and the Bulk Up set has been relegated to OO.
     
  13. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Bump - would the QC people mind having a look please?
     
  14. Daybreak

    Daybreak can't touch this

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    I'm on my phone so the formatting might be kinda sloppy.

    All out attacker set put knock off slashed next to rock blast for bulky ghosts like doublade and cofagrigus.

    I am just unsure about the status orb set having it there as a main set tbh. If other qc chime in saying its good then I have no objections since I haven't used status orb Hera at all.

    In other options you mentioned swords dance twice for different reasons. Just combine them into one bullet.

    There are some other small things I see but I'll wait til after I am off my phone.
     
  15. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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  16. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    On mega, I see EQ being used more than Bullet Seed and personally believe it's more useful, so maybe change EQ to front-slash. Also, add in the last set comment point for this set that speed EVs can be run, but the bulk's generally more beneficial.

    As for Status Orb Heracross, I have never been a fan of it; I've always thought that CB Guts Heracross is superior for off the bat power and lack of residual damage from the StaTus Orb (plus, it can be a universal status absorber as it tanks sleep w/ sleep talk, but this is a very small point). Regardless, this has already been talked around in circles and I'm not going to dispute this thoroughly, so leave it as it is if you wish.

    QC 1/3
     
  17. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Have made the suggested changes. Will wait and see about the status orb set (I like it better than Band since you can switch moves), if more people think it's not good I'll relegate it to OO.
     
  18. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    yh i dont think it deserves a main set, move to OO and approved

    qc 2/3
     
  19. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    agree with afro and finch; make changes and you get QC 3/3 good job!
     
  20. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    OK, since Mega Hera's been banned I made a few changes. I reincluded the Choice Band/Status Orb - since its mega forme's now banned, it's no longer outclassed.
     
  21. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    no mention of sleep talk anywhere in the analysis? heracross makes an excellent sleep absorber with Guts + Sleep Talk (even Scarf + Sleep Talk is good) and just an all around great status absorber.
     
  22. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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