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[Doubles] Doubles General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Gen 6 Side Metagames' started by sulcata, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    This thread is for discussing all things in the Doubles tier. Post sets, strategies, and combination you have found interesting, bring up potential suspects, and discuss other varying aspects. Poor posting will be infracted. Enjoy.

    Rules:
    This metagame is played in the Doubles format. Two Pokemon are sent out on each side and attempt to defeat the opposing side. Many different strategies are employed here that see less use in the Singles format such as Tailwind, Intimidate, Weather, Trick Room, and multi-target moves.
    Banned Pokémon: Arceus, Dialga, Giratina, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Kyurem-W, Lugia, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom
    Banned Items: Soul Dew
    Banned Abilities: Moody
    Banned Moves: Dark Void, Double Team, Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, Minimize, Sheer Cold
    Clauses: Self-KO Clause, Sleep Clause, Species Clause, Wifi Battle
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  2. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Ok some things to watch out for from my experiences on here and the smogon server which currently has the same tier

    Mega Kanga is extremely borderline and hard to deal with - it has a ton of bulk and a ton of power as usual, being in doubles doesn't really affect that too much but there is a lot of intimidate out there.

    Mega Charizard Y is easily one of the best things in the tier, it has a stupid powerful heat wave and supports its team amazingly.

    Mega Gardevoir can basically spam Hyper Voice with impunity, it hits both opps scary hard, subs won't stop it etc

    Blaziken seems amazing on paper but I don't have much experience with it atm.

    Oh and you guys don't bother with Shaymin-S it sucks lol
     
  3. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Shaymin-S is fine lol.. ok not as deadly as in singles but it still has great speed coverage and also tailwind; a little tip from smogon, deo-N>deo-A [assuming u guys haven't banned them] since it can tank a lot of weaker hits that deo-A falls to, even after some Lo recoil [most priority bar kanga's sucker/mscizor's BP, politoed's scald, stuff like that], without a significant loss of power.
     
  4. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Right now the banlists for Doubles are the same as Smogon's, where we go with that is up to us though. So yeah Deo-A and Deo-N are in the tier. I can see why Deo-N would be better. I bet even Deo-S is useful.

    Big ups to Klefki who scares everyone cos they think its swagger but is just a really good support pokemon. Imprison ftw too
     
  5. Axily

    Axily PO chick

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    A very interesting Trick Room setter is Aromatisse. He is very slow (29 base points in speed)
    Thanks to his wonderful trait it doesn't need the mental herb (Moves like Taunt, Encore, Torment and Disable are useless) . He also can be a good screener (it has good defences too with a lot of HP, 406 max). It can recover the team from status problems and can pass 203 HP with Wish.
    It has some problems with Scizor and its bullet punch....

    [​IMG]

    Trick Room Setter:


    Aromatisse (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Aroma Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk or 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    IVs: O Spe
    Bold / Relaxed Nature or Calm / Sassy Nature
    - Aromatherapy
    - Trick Room
    - Reflect / Ligh Screen
    - Moonblast


    Screener:

    Aromatisse (F) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Aroma Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk or 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Bold / Calm Nature
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Aromatherapy / Wish
    - Moonblast

    Wish Supporter:

    Aromatisse (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Aroma Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Aromatherapy / Toxic
    - Moonblast
     
  6. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    Somebody can add a clause/banlist ? The offcial tier list is not updated.
    I need to know before making statements.

    From tournament play i have not seen a single thing you guys mentioned expect M-Charizard Y.
     
  7. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Standard Level 100. Wifi Battle
    Sleep Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause

    Banned Pokemon: Arceus, Dialga, Giratina, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Kyurem-W, Lugia, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom
    Banned moves: Dark Void
    Banned abilities: Moody
    Banned items: Soul Dew

    This is the way I was told they were to be implemented. I'll edit them into the main thread once I have confirmation of these.
     
  8. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Why ban dark void when we have sleep clause? It's just a worse spore at that point. Only argument I can see is that it makes Darkrai broken at which point we should be banning the pokemon.
     
  9. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Mega Kanga is strong, but is nothing like it was in singles. Intimidate users are extremely common, is not particularly hard to kill (if you really need it dead, you can double target it), and it has a terrible 4 moveslot syndrome (Moves it can run: Fake Out, Return, Sucker Punch, Earthquake, PUP, Crunch, Facade, Protect and Ice Punch)

    Mega Gardevoir is great, but its depressing physical bulk kinda sucks. Specs Sylveon is similar to MGardevoir, but it has a lot more overall bulk and it works amazingly under TR.

    I haven't faced any Blaziken, but Intimidate, poor bulk and not being able to BP risklessly definitely hurts it.

    It doesn't suck, it just isn't as good as it is in singles. It still has great speed, Serene Grace, strong STABs (one with 80% chance of SDef drop and the other with 60% chance of flinch), Healing Wish and Tailwind.

    ===========

    I was a big fan of doubles back in Gen 4, and I'm kinda happy we are having a serious Doubles tier in XY.

    I don't think anything screams "broken" right now. Deo-A and Deo-N are strong, but both are extremely frail and they basically get 2HKOed / OHKOed by everything. Deo-S is trash. Haven't seen any Darkrai, but I can't see it doing much without Dark Void. Playing around Mega Kangaskhan is nowhere near as hard as it was in singles. Mega Charizard Y is a huge threat, mostly because it can support its team with weather, and unlike Ninetales and Politoed, it isn't a shit Pokemon.

    Cresselia is probably the best support Pokemon in the tier right now. Massive bulk, Levitate (which is a great ability in Doubles, because Earthquake is one of the best moves), and a movepool that fits so well in the Doubles metagame (Icy Wind, Helping Hand, Reflect, Light Screen, Safeguard, Trick Room, etc), is an excellent combination. Cress is the kind of Pokemon you can pretty much use in every kind of team.

    Hazards aren't as bad as some people believe they are. Stealth Rock is extremely viable in Doubles, it breaks Sashes, cripples Pokemon like Charizard and Chandelure, and make smart switching more difficult. Sticky Web is also good in the tier, most teams might have a Pokemon or two that aren't affected by it, but the rest probably won't enjoy the -1 Speed.

    Last thing I want to say for now: Use Substitute Chandelure.
     
  10. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    I was told "because Dark Void targets both Pokemon, and programing it to not do that is not worth it." Having a Sleep Clause that follows non-ingame mechanics kinda screws us here.
     
  11. Shadow Sneak

    Shadow Sneak came in like

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    Terrakion @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake / Protect
    - Close Combat
    - Rock Polish

    Whimsicott (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Beat Up
    - Leech Seed
    - Encore
    - Stun Spore

    This is an amazing Doubles combo. I shall explain, Terrakion has this ability called Justified which raises its Attack by one for each time it is hit by a Dark move. So say you lead with Terrakion and a Pokemon with Beat Up? Heres how it works, Terrakion will Rock Polish and hit speeds over 600, making it unable to be outsped by pretty much anything. Then a Beat Up user comes in (I chose Whimsicott because it's great in Doubles) and uses Beat Up to deal little damage, and then reach Attack stats of over 1000. Then you can sweep with Rock Slide and Close Combat.
     
  12. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    Bisharp is absolutely one of the best Pokemon in the tier right now. Like Hikari said, there are a bunch of Intimidate users in the current metagame that are getting a ton of usage. Namely Landorus-T, Hitmontop, and Scrafty, (Special mentions to Salamence and pre-evolved Mega Mawile, ). Defiant is an incredible ability, and a lot of ways that teams deal with strong physically attacking Pokemon is with repeated Intimidate, and unfortunately you can't do that to Bisharp because of the +1 Attack boost it gets after you factor in Defiant after Intimidate. After that boost, Bisharp becomes an incredibly strong Pokemon, and Knock Off has the ability to ruin a lot of support Pokemon, whether it involves Knocking Off Sitrus Berries or important items that any Pokemon carry.

    Mega Kangaskhan is imo the best Pokemon in the metagame. Its best set (imo) can't really run Protect due to the 4MSS but PuP is a great move to try to regain the Attack drops that the Intimidate Pokemon cause when Mega Kanga is sent out. PuP/Return/Fake-Out/Sucker is incredibly hard to beat, and although a Pokemon without Protect can sometimes make tricky playing hard to do, due to the inability to Protect to scout or ensure survival for that turn (or for whatever you want to Protect for), Mega Kangaskhan is certainly a Pokemon who can pull that off. Also shout-out to Trick Room + Kangaskhan with Hammer Arm, which gives it a -2 Speed drop and after one Hammer Arm and a Trick Room up, Mega Kangaskhan is easily one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into as well.
     
  13. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    hi i am posting to advocate a swagger ban in doubles. though i agree its much easier to handle in doubles than in singles play, it is still brainless, uncompetitive, and leads to things like this happening with nothing but a little bit (well, more than a little bit) of luck.
     
    Disaster Area and Axily like this.
  14. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett Hex: RNG Developer Developer

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    First of all I want to point out that in your log, it was more of you missing important attacks than hitting yourself in confusion.

    Swagger hax is as annoying as always, but it's not as bad as it was in singles. Unless you've got two Swagger abusers for some reason, you can only Swagger one Pokemon at a time. For the first turn there is still going to be one Pokemon that can do whatever it wants. Even when both Pokemon are confused, you get two coinflips instead of the usual one to try and make a move. There are times when a Pokemon is relying on its partner, in which case a confusion hit can screw over both of them, but in most cases you aren't going to fully miss a turn.

    One of the things which sets Swagger apart from regular confusion is Swagger + Foul Play, but that's not as common in doubles. Swagger is mostly just for threatening Special Attackers with confusion hax. Klefki (which imo is outclassed by Meowstic-M) can run both of those itself like it did in singles, but its typing isn't that great in doubles with moves like Heat Wave and Earthquake being a lot more common. One of the worst abusers of SwagPlay I can think of is Liepard + Mega Gengar, but this pair has even more annoying strategies like Trap Encore+Disable.

    Also consider that in doubles there are viable strategies involving Swagger which aren't centered around hax, such as Safeguard/Lum Berry + Swagger.
     
  15. Ortheore

    Ortheore One beautiful monster

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    Does it still count as a necro if it's stickied?

    Since ORAS rolled around I've been messing with a rain team to try out Mega-Pert. I've found it to be pretty cool but its struggles with grass types has left me a bit underwhelmed, since Ice punch just doesn't cut it. That said, the team I've been using is a little rough around the edges, so perhaps with a few tweaks it could shine a little more.

    Once I'm done with that idk what I'll try, probably MegaMence, since that's considered the most powerful addition to the tier. DD is pretty popular, but I may try an all-out attacker set. Idk.

    Btw do people play doubles? It's a fun tier I promise (seriously, it is)
     
  16. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    What's the point in banning Dark Void is Sleep Clause it a thing. Wouldn't that mean the hit on the 2nd mon wouldn't go through because one is already asleep?
     
  17. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    Adding a move that randomly inflicts sleep to another mon is sorta silly. We have sleep clause, which is technically impossible within in-game limitations, so intentionally triggering "non-canon" mechanics is probably undesirable and should be limited as much as possible (imo).
     
    E.T. likes this.