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[Grammar] Abomasnow

Discussion in 'LU Analyses' started by Afro Smash, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Overview
    Abomasnow's transition to the 6th generation has seen some drastic changes to its role. First was the nerf to Snow Warning which effectively makes Hail teams all but obsolete, but also means that Abomasnow can now fit on almost any team without having to worry about constant Hail damage affecting its team-mates. Secondly was the gift of a Mega Evolution, which transforms Abomasnow from a decidedly average pokemon, to an absolutely incredible mixed attacker and tank, seeing massive boosts to its attacking and defensive stats. The Mega Evolution also grants Abomasnow a sharp Speed drop, which is somewhat a double edged sword, the bad side is that under normal circumstances Abomasnow will almost always be moving last, however, it also allows it to become one of the tiers most threatening sweepers with Trick Room support.

    Unfortunately Abomasnow wasn't able to leave all its downsides in the past, it still finds itself with a weakness to all forms of entry hazards and a typing that grants it 7 weaknesses, including a weakness to Poison and Steel which see a lot more offensive use this gen due to their ability to take down the newly introduced Fairy types. Despite its flaws however, Mega Abomasnow's combination of coverage, bulk and power make it one of the most dangerous pokemon in the tier, and one that every team need be wary of.

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    Mixed Tank
    Abomasnow (M) @ Abomasite
    Trait: Soundproof > Snow Warning
    EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)/ Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)

    - Ice Shard
    - Giga Drain
    - Earthquake
    - Blizzard

    The Mixed Tank set aims to make use of Mega Abomasnow's greatest assets; its potency as a mixed attacker, its incredible coverage and its superb bulk. The EV spread maximises HP and Sp Atk investment to ensure you can hit hard and tank hard hits yourself. Ice Shard is a STAB priority attack that serves to mitigate Mega Abomasnow's low Speed, and even when un-invested is important for hitting pokemon like Flygon, Noivern and Mega Aerodactyl for good damage. Giga Drain isn't Abomasnow's strongest STAB option but its ability to absorb health from enemies is key to ensuring it can continue tank hits throughout a match. Earthquake is the coverage option of choice, able to nail Steel and Fire types which resist Abomasnow's dual STAB. Blizzard is Abomasnow's strongest STAB move and one that can easily be spammed early game since it will leave a large dent in almost everything in the tier.

    The choice between Natures is a difficult one, as a Quiet nature allows you to remain an effective mixed attacker without sacrificing bulk, however a Mild nature allows you to out-speed Avalugg, Aromatisse, Slowking and other base 30's. You can opt to make this set more Physically oriented by swapping the Atk and Sp Atk investment, making the nature either Brave/Lonely, and replacing Giga Drain with Wood Hammer. This allows you to muscle past Special Walls such as Snorlax much easier, however this leaves you unable to safely switch in on Water types for fear of Scald Burns and leaves you less able to consistently tank hits due to Wood Hammer recoil replacing Giga Drain recovery. Hidden Power [Fire] is an option as a coverage move to be used over Earthquake to nail Forretress and Escavalier, however Earthquake allows you to beat a far greater number of Checks so is the recommended option.

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    Swords Dance
    Abomasnow (M) @ Abomasite
    Trait: Soundproof > Snow Warning
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

    - Swords Dance
    - Ice Shard
    - Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake

    This set takes advantage of the immediately threatening nature of the more common Mixed Tank set to find a lot of free set up opportunities, after which it is able to effectively break walls and attempt a sweep. Ice Shard's damage output on this set is not notably higher than that on the Mixed Tank set, however after a Swords Dance boost it becomes extremely threatening, able to OHKO an incredible amount of Offensive pokemon in the tier such as Mega Aerodactyl, Krookodile, Tornadus-T, Yanmega, Virizion and Hitmonlee to name but a few. Wood Hammer is an option on this set as it gives you a powerful Grass STAB even when un-boosted, however it comes with recoil damage which can leave you easily revenged by other Priority users, and it doesn't pick up any KO's that can't be achieved by a Seed Bomb and Ice Shard combo. Earthquakes increased damage output on this set allows it to OHKO Mega Houndoom and Entei after Rocks, and more reliably beat other Checks like Escavalier and Cobalion, though note this move should only be used to catch Checks on the switch, since staying in Vs. a Fire/Steel type to try and land an EQ will generally mean lights out for Abomasnow.

    This set will never be able to sweep if Fire and Steel types manage to stay healthy, therefore hazard support and trapping support from Dugtrio can be a very effective way of weakening and removing Checks.

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    Specially Defensive
    Abomasnow (M) @ Abomasite
    Trait: Soundproof > Snow Warning
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)/Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)

    - Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Giga Drain/Wood Hammer
    - Blizzard/Ice Shard


    Abomasnow is still very effective this gen when running a Leech Seed set, especially with the Defense boost it gains from its Mega Evolution. It is able to easily Counter basically all Water, Grass and Electric types in the tier, and is just great Special wall in general. To give an example of its bulk it is never 2HKO'd by Rash Raikou's LO Aura Sphere or Cofagrigus' +2 Shadow Ball, and can 2hko them in return with un-invested Blizzards. Leech Seed is especially great on Abomasnow compared to other Grass types as the only pokemon immune to it (being Grass types and Goodra) take massive damage from Blizzard, so can always find opportunities to utilise the move and start healing up. Protect helps to scout the opponent and to rack up extra turns of Hail and Leech Seed damage.

    The choice between Physical and Special attacker on this set really comes down to personal preference and team composition; with the special set Abomasnow has a powerful Ice STAB in Blizzard and an extra way to recover health in Giga Drain. The Physical set however gives you access to STAB priority Ice Shard and a powerful Grass STAB in Wood Hammer, whose usual drawback in recoil can be mitigated by Leech Seed recovery. The Physical set can also stop you being set up fodder for some Calm Minding Special Attackers such as Meloetta and Florges. The only notable drawback of the Physical set is that it leaves you less able to effectively Counter Water types packing Scald since Burns neuter you offensively. You can also opt to run Leftovers on this set and forgo the Megastone, this makes you far less susceptible to Hazard damage and allows you to fit another Mega on your team, however Mega Abomasnow's increased Defenses and ability to deal significant damage without offensive investment usually makes it the preferred option.

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    Trick Room Sweeper
    Abomasnow (M) @ Abomasite
    Trait: Soundproof > Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)

    - Hidden Power [Fire]/Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Blizzard
    - Wood Hammer


    This was designed for use under Trick Room where Abomasnow will almost always be moving first, and thus bulk has been sacrificed to maximise both Attacking stats to make it a formidable mixed Attacker. Wood Hammer + Blizzard are your STAB attacks to melt through Physical and Special walls respectively, Earthquake hits Steel and Fire types for huge damage, and finally Hidden Power [Fire] rounds out your coverage allowing you to OHKO Forretress and Durant, 2HKO Escavalier and 3HKO Bronzong. Note HP Fire can be swapped out for Ice Shard, which can still see use under trick Room to pick off opposing priority users such as Hitmonlee, Toxicroak and rival Abomasnow.

    This set very much appreciates Hazard support since pokemon such as Entei and Cobalion are able to stomach Earthquakes and OHKO Abomasnow in return. If you opt to not run Hidden Power [Fire] then Steel trapping support from Magnezone is very helpful as otherwise you waste too many Trick Room turns bringing them down, or in the case of Escavalier and Durant, losing 1 on 1.

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    Other Options:
    Focus Blast is a decent coverage option for Mega Abomasnow, able to always OHKO Cobalion and Mega Houndoom, OHKO Kyurem and opposing Mega Abomasnow after Stealth Rock, and 2HKO Snorlax after Stealth Rocks and Hail damage (excluding Assault Vest), however it is notoriously unreliable shares a lot of coverage with the much safer Earthquake. Energy Ball can be used over Giga Drain to give you a stronger Grass STAB on Special or mixed sets, however Giga Drain's recovery usually plays a bigger role than Energy Ball's slightly higher damage output. Focus Punch is an interesting option that allows Mega Abomasnow to nail some of its more common switch ins, OHKOing Snorlax and KOing standard Porygon2 after Hail and Ice Shard damage, however it struggles to find room for it. Protect or Substitute can be used on almost any offensive set to increase Hail damage and/or scout the opponent, however this usually means giving up crucial coverage.

    Checks/Counters
    It is impossible to counter all of Mega Abomasnow's possible sets, instead it is best to take advantage of its low Speed, Hazard weakness and poor Defensive typing to wear it down over the course of a match. There are Checks and Counters to individual sets, but the initial scouting can be very dangerous.

    Specially Defensive Porygon2 can tank all attacks from the mixed sets (as long as TR isn't up) however SD Abomasnow can set up in its face, if it lacks Toxic will lose to Leech Seed Abomasnow, and it is OHKO'd after Hail by the rare Focus Punch. Specially Defensive Bronzong is also able to wall every offensive set Abomasnow can run, however due to its lack of recovery and Gyro Ball's pitiful damage output, it will also lose if it is not running Toxic. Snorlax can beat all sets lacking Wood Hammer or SD, and can set up Curses on the Leech Seed set. Tentacruel finds itself able to take on Specially based and Leech Seed sets well thanks to its naturally high Sp Def, Liquid Ooze negating recovery and being able to 2HKO Mega Abomasnow with Poison STAB after Rocks, However it has to be wary of EQ on the mixed set and cannot switch in on Physical sets. Assault Vest Escavalier is one of the best Checks to Mega Abomasnow, resisting both STABs, Overcoat granting immunity to Hail damage and it not being weak to Earthquake. It can struggle if Mega Abomasnow is packing Hidden Power [Fire], however even then it is only 2HKO'd whilst it OHKO's Mega Abomasnow in return with Megahorn. Sp Def Forretress finds itself in the same boat, however instead of dealing direct damage, it can set up Hazards for passive damage throughout the match. Assault Vest users such as Entei, Machamp and Slowking are able to Check Special sets well, tanking hits and threatening Mega Abomasnow with their SE STAB/Coverage moves, however they can take huge damage if switching in to a Physical set, and will get worn down quickly if repeatedly switching in. Fire and Steel types in general are good Checks to Mega Abomasnow since they resist its dual STAB, however they have to keep an eye out for Earthquake.

    Notes:
    • Soundproof is preferred on Abomasnow before the Mega as it not only allows you to switch in on the odd Boomburst/Bug Buzz/Hyper Voice, but it also means that you don't waste a turn of Hail as you switch in, and instead can take advantage of 5 turns of Hail after you Mega evolve.
    • EV's always allow you to switch in to Stealth Rocks 4 times, and always ensure that the Porygon's don't get a Special Attack boost from Download.
    • The Speed drop after Mega Evolving is quite significant, thus holding off on Mega evolving can allow you to move first against and deal massive damage to a lot of common XY LU pokemon such as Mega Ampharos, Trevenant and even opposing Mega Abomasnow (Excludes TR Sweeper).
    • Rapid Spin/Defog support is appreciated on all sets due to Mega Abomasnow's prevalent weakness to hazards.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
  2. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Looks good from what you have so far, but you may want to mention in the set comments of the first set that a physically based Mixed set is viable (with like Wood Hammer instead of Giga Drain and more EVs in attack). In addition, I wouldn't classify Tentacruel as a check (you currently have it listed). Also, will you add a Leech Seed bulky build, or nah? I personally like it, but I haven't played too much LU.
     
  3. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Personally I think Mixed Abomasnow should be:

    Abomasnow @ Abomasite
    Brave nature (+Atk -Spd)
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EV: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Blizzard
    Wood Hammer
    Ice Shard
    Earthquake / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire

    Abomasnow's niche as a mixed attacker is that it can afford to just maximise both attack stats since what the hell's it ever going to outrun besides Escavalier (who beats it anyway without HP Fire)?
     
  4. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    If you wanna speed creep Rhyperior, why not just run LO on normal Abomasnow? That base 60 isn't fast, but it outpaces Rhyperior pretty sufficiently, and an LO Seed Bomb absolutely annihilates Rhyperior (after an SD):

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 530-632 (122.1 - 145.6%)

    Also, those 4 Attack EVs on the first set probably won't be making any difference. Perhaps just drop them in SDef too? That's more likely to make a difference. This is probably just splitting hairs though, lol.
     
  5. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Tentacruel is a fairly good Check, it can tank Blizzards and Ice Shards, has Liquid Ooze to counteract Giga Drain, and can hit Mega Abomasnow with STAB Poison attacks, however its not a Check to the Physical sets.

    Life Orb Abomasnow is able to set up on far less due to the lower bulk (especially Physically) and finds itself worn down much quickly 9due to LO recoil), outspeeding Rhyperior isn't a necessity, just a common pokemon you may wish to prepare for. as for the 4 EVs tbh it doesn't really matter where they go, it only has the 4 Sp Def EVs for Download mons, if people want the leftover 4 in Sp Def, then I shall grant their wish.

    also @Finchinator do you mean the Leech Seed Abomasnow set from gen 5 or a Mega Abomasnow with Leech Seed (it has better Defenses but misses out on Lefties)

    @Dr. Doom I will either post Wood Hammer in set comments or make a separate Physically based mixed attacker set, since the EVs you suggested make Abomasnow play a much less Tanky role, as it is able to sponge far less attacks without the HP investment. The other thing i don't like about it is that Mega Abomasnow is a top tier Check to Water types, and if it is running a Physical set without a way to boost its Attack, it is unable to freely switch in on Water types for fear of Scald Burns.

    I will wait for other opinions on your set before I take action, and for now will add Wood Hammer in set comments.
     
  6. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    I'm not particularly keen on the SD set, but I suppose it's good enough to merit a main set. I think Dr. Doom's set could be made into a main set as a TR Sweeper, since with the compromised bulk it's best suited for that role imo. In the existing main set, I think the Wood Hammer mention in the set comments suffices.
     
  7. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    alright will probably be adding Specially Defensive and TR sweeper sets as main sets, and will finish Counter/Check list
     
  8. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    added the 2 sets, OO and sorted CC section.

    enjoy reading QC there's quite a lot to get through!

    Also kinda tried something new with the Universal set comments, just things that are true for all sets, so I don't have to repeat myself, and they don't really seem like the sort of thing to go in general.

    and someone get Samphire in here as im not sure when to use apostraphes, is it Mega Abomasnows or Mega Abomasnow's when referring to its attacks/stats/counters etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  9. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    When you're talking about something to do with a Pokémon (eg its typing), and you're writing out its full name, use an apostrophe. If you're shortening it to it, then you don't use an apostrophe.

    E.g.
    Abomasnow's typing gives it unfortunate weaknesses
    Its weakness to entry hazards mean it needs a Rapid Spinner
     
  10. meeps

    meeps Well-Known Member

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    ok

    general:

    looks good

    mixed tank:

    looks good

    swords dance:

    looks good

    specially defense:

    mentiom substitute in set comments maybe, otherwise it is good

    trick room sweeper:

    looks good

    oo:

    looks good, maybe add scarf as a major surprise factor set, not really necessary tho, still kinda slow cant outspeed base 115 stuff

    c&c:

    mention slowking as another ass vest user which can check it, fire blast kos, and it outspeeds if aboma is - spd nature, giga drain is 2hko, wins 1v1 but cant always reliably switch-in. ass vest meloetta too, 3hko by blizzard even after hail damage, and 2hko after rocks most of the time, but ice shard can easily pick off meloetta if at low health. try to specify more on the fire/steel types that can harm it like houndoom, cobalion,

    yeah overall it's fine

    approved
     
  11. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    This looks good to me so
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Written up in full, time for grammar.

    Also what do about Notes section, I feel like the info in there is really useful, and doesn't really have a place in any other section, but I've not seen any other analysis with it and idk how you feel about Bullet Points.