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[Approved] Keldeo

Discussion in 'OU Analyses' started by Rohail, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. Rohail

    Rohail Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    General
    • Didn't gain much from XY, except for new checks
    • With a high base 129 Special Attack stat and a great Speed tier, Keldeo is still one of OU's premier special attackers
    • Excellent Water / Fighting typing, giving it great STAB options
    • Typing also works nice defensively, letting it check dangerous threats like Mega Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, and Bisharp
    • Good boosting move in Calm Mind
    • Easy to prepare for, with Pokemon like Talonflame and Thundurus hard checking it and other Pokemon like Latios, Latias, Azumarill, and Mega Venusaur outright countering it
    • Introduction of Fairy-types also hinders it
    • Horrible movepool and useless ability
    • Cute pony with devastating effects
    Choice Specs

    Keldeo @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Scald
    - Icy Wind / Hidden Power Flying
    • Makes an excellent user of both Choice Specs thanks to high Special Attack and Speed stats
    • Hydro Pump is the main STAB move, hitting for a ton of damage even with the nerf
    • Secret Sword is an excellent secondary STAB, letting Keldeo hit Pokemon like Chansey and Blissey on their weaker Defense
    • Scald provides a more reliable STAB and cripples incoming Azumarill; the drop in power is noticeable though
    • Icy Wind is used to hit Latios and Latias, 2HKOing them both after Stealth Rock, which means that Keldeo easily beats both of them if it catches them on the switch
    • Hidden Power Flying can be used in the last slot over Icy Wind to hit Mega Venusaur moderately hard
    • Choice Specs makes Keldeo an impeccable wallbreaker, busting through walls like Heatran and Rotom-W with ease
    • Timid nature is chosen to let Keldeo beat the likes of Mega Charizards and Manaphy
    Calm Mind

    Keldeo @ Life Orb / Mystic Water
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk) / Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Hydro Pump / Scald
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power Flying / Icy Wind
    • Keldeo makes for an excellent late-game sweeper with a Calm Mind boost under its belt
    • Calm Mind not only boosts power, but also lets Keldeo beat previous checks like Mega Venusaur and non-Psyshock Latias with the appropriate coverage move
    • Hydro Pump is again the main Water STAB, but Scald can be used instead for the reliability and ability to burn, which is useful when combined with Calm Mind's Special Defense boosts
    • Secret Sword is the secondary STAB attack and lets Keldeo hit Pokemon like Chansey, Blissey, and Tyranitar hard
    • Hidden Power Flying is used to beat Mega Venusaur and destroy stall teams that lack Unaware Clefable
    • Icy Wind can be used instead to beat Latios and Latias if Keldeo catches them on the switch with a Calm Mind boost
    • Life Orb is preferred for the reliable power boost, but Mystic Water can be used instead to lengthen survivability and bluff a Choice item while still boosting the power of Keldeo's Water-type moves
    • Timid vs. Modest is basically Speed vs. power; Timid lets Keldeo beat positive-natured base 100s while Modest guarantees the 2HKO on 252/252+ Mega Venusaur after a Calm Mind without any prior damage
    Choice Scarf

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Scald
    • Keldeo's excellent Speed tier lends it to be a solid Choice Scarf user
    • Hydro Pump Keldeo's most powerful STAB move
    • Secret Sword hits Pokemon on their defensive side, offering good synergy with Keldeo's other moves
    • Icy Wind is used to hit Latios and Latias super effectively while also revenge killing Dragonite and Garchomp after some prior damage
    • Scald is much more reliable than Hydro Pump, but is also much weaker
    • Timid nature is used to maximize Speed and revenge kill the likes of +1 Jolly Mega Charizard-X and Mega Tyranitar
    Synergy
    • Pursuit users like Tyranitar and Bisharp are incredibly useful to beat Latios, Latias, and Slowbro, which are otherwise complete stops to Keldeo lacking Icy Wind
    • Keldeo loves hazard support; Deoxys-D is an excellent setter and fits in well with the offensive playstyle
    • Talonflame is another great partner to beat the likes of Latios, Latias, and Mega Venusaur
    • Mega Scizor can easily switch in on most of Keldeo's counters (Azumarill, Latios, Latias, Mega Venusaur), while Keldeo can switch in on Mega Scizor's Fire weakness
    • Kyurem-B can smash through Mega Venusaur and Slowbro and has decent typing synergy with Keldeo
    Other Options
    • SubCM
    • Hidden Power Ghost, Electric, and Bug
    • Sleep Talk on Choice sets
    • Alternate items like Expert Belt and Assault Vest
    • Alternate moves like Toxic, Taunt, Rain Dance, and Surf
    • Physical set with Swords Dance
    Checks and Counters
    • Assault Vest Slowbro and Slowking with Psyshock are complete counters
    • Latias and Latios; but can't switch in on a boosted Icy Wind
    • Mega Venusaur; but can't switch in on a boosted Hidden Power Flying
    • Azumarill and Dragonite; but is crippled by a Scald burn
    • Other less common Pokemon that resist its STABs like Roserade, Celebi, Amoonguss, Jellicent, Toxicroak, and Salamence
    • Faster Pokemon or priority users like Talonflame, Thundurus, (Mega) Alakazam, Mega Manectric, Mega Pinsir, etc.
    • Keldeo is easy to play around once you know what it locks itself into
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  2. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    General
    I would make a point stating that the addition of Fairy type is annoying to Keldeo, but otherwise this section's looking solid.

    Choice
    Personally, I would make specs and scarf different sets w/ specs being: hydro/SS/icy/hp fly and scarf being: hydro/ss/hp (ice or fly)/(scald or icy wind). Although the disparity in moves isn't substantial, the roles that each set fulfills are entirely seperate - scarf Keldeo revenges, specs Keldeo wallbreaks.

    CM
    I haven't used this since generation give and cbf to test it at the moment, so will leave this to my colleagues.

    Synergy
    Kyurem-B destroys Mega-Venusaur and also walls and hurts problematic bulky waters (scarf variants can even revenge Latis) - it should get a mention somewhere, in my opinion. All currently listed points are fine.

    Other Options
    Mention HP electric, sleep talk on Choiced set (or set comment that), taunt, toxic, mystic water, assvest, and surf as alternative water STAB to aforementioned scald/hydro.

    C&C
    Might want to say assvest in first point as specs Keldeo can 2HKO defensive regular Slowbro w/ hydro or hp ghost/electric/bug (hydro with minimal previous residuals, rain, or hazards + good varies). I disagree with the mention of Gengar and Genesect as neither can typically revenge a healthy Keldeo. Additionally, Celebi, Amoonguss, Toxicroak, Roserade, and Jellicent could get a point for being checks/counters, but very uncommon in the metagame.

    Good job. Implement this, hear from other QC, and then we're on a smooth road to a quick approval.
     
    satyaki roy likes this.
  3. Rohail

    Rohail Active Member

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    I have implemented all of that, thanks @Finchinator.

    Regarding Mystic Water, I put it as a slash next to Life Orb in place of Expert Belt on the Calm Mind set. Mystic Water is overall a better choice than Expert Belt since Keldeo doesn't have good super effective coverage. Mystic Water also helps survivability and bluffing, so we aren't really missing out on that much anyway. I have OO'ed Expert Belt though.
     
  4. MewtwoHidden

    MewtwoHidden My Hax Makes Me Famous

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    • With a high base 129 Attack stat and a great Speed tier, Keldeo is still one of OU's premier special attackers
    "Special"

    I'd want Icy Wind to get the front of the slash on the Specs set. Modest really should go to set comments on the CM set because Keldeo's main selling point is its fantastic speed.
     
  5. Rohail

    Rohail Active Member

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    I have implemented everything. Modest was already slashed on the CM set lol :P

    Also tagging @Epikhairz so he can provide feedback before this gets stamped.
     
  6. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    sorry about being so lazy with this @Rohail

    On the CM set, I would slash HP Flying before Icy Wind; the scenario you listed with Icy Wind just isn't likely to happen imo and HP Flying is so good for getting more of the Grass-types in the meta - especially Mega Venusaur

    Other than that this is looking good - QC 1/3
     
    Rohail likes this.
  7. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    QC 2/3 - preserving posts to do some QC shit that's overdue, WOOP - looks solid
     
  8. MewtwoHidden

    MewtwoHidden My Hax Makes Me Famous

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  9. trc

    trc Active Member

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    wait wait
    can scald be a standalone slash on specs? I feel that being able to clean with a STAB that won't miss that isnt exploitable is incredibly important, and there are so many times you'd prefer scald to hpump it's not even funny.
     
  10. Rohail

    Rohail Active Member

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    I agree with this and will implement it. Thanks!

    Gonna write this up laterish :)
     
  11. Terrakion

    Terrakion People are such faggots. :/

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    I believe Hydro Pump was added for the addition of power when needed. There are some situations where Scald just won't do the job. For example:

    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 187-222 (57.7 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 136-162 (41.9 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Huge difference in power but by ll means, it's possible that Scald could be a standalone. But Hydro Pump is just for the extra power, y'know.
     
  12. trc

    trc Active Member

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    Hi please look at the set again.
     
  13. Terrakion

    Terrakion People are such faggots. :/

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    I was just saying what I think from what you said earlier.

    "wait wait can scald be a standalone slash on specs? I feel that being able to clean with a STAB that won't miss that isnt exploitable is incredibly important, and there are so many times you'd prefer scald to hpump it's not even funny."
     
  14. Rohail

    Rohail Active Member

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    It doesn't really matter because both Scald AND Hydro Pump have a standalone slash on the Specs set :o
     
  15. trc

    trc Active Member

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    Yeah, that was my point, the set accommodates for both moves :]
     
  16. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    slash hidden power electric with icy wind on scarf set as it hits pokemon like dd reg gyara (increasingly common) and other bulky waters

    mention sub+endeavor salac set in OO, too, as that saw a sudden surge of popularity for a couple weeks in the past couple months
     
  17. trc

    trc Active Member

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    Agree with HP Electric, move Scarf above Calm Mind, make SubEndeavor its own set completely (obviously after Calm Mind), and mention Taunt in the details of Calm Mind.