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[Final] Heatran

Discussion in 'OU Analyses' started by Dr. Doom, May 20, 2014.

  1. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    [​IMG]
    General

    Heatran has been a great Pokémon in OU ever since it arrived in DP. Heatran has solid stats all around: its 91/106/106 defences mean it can take hits well while its 130 base Special Attack means it can dish them out too. While it lost its Ghost- and Dark-type resistances, it gained another x4 resistance to Fairy-type moves. Its typing also means that it's immune to burn and poison. It also has a great support movepool including Stealth Rock, Will-O-Wisp, Roar, and Taunt, which means it can run offensive, defensive, and support sets equally well, making Heatran easy to incorporate into almost any team. Heatran also has the useful ability to check dangerous Pokémon like Talonflame and Latios. OU is kinder to it this generation: Terrakion, Politoed, Jellicent, Starmie and Dugtrio have all left the tier. There is also no more permanent rain.

    Nevertheless, Heatran has its faults. No reliable recovery undermines its great bulk, and its offensive movepool is rather small. It also struggles with common Pokémon like Landorus-T, Greninja, and Keldeo, while several of the Pokémon it used to wall are finding ways of getting around it, such as Latios running Earthquake. As good as its typing is, it also gives Heatran weaknesses to common Ground and Fighting moves, with the former being a x4 weakness. Also in the new generation, several of its attacks have been weakened, such as Fire Blast and Hidden Power.

    Specially Defensive

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 SDef / 40 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Lava Plume / Flamethrower
    - Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earth Power / Roar

    This set capitalises on Heatran's defensive capabilities. Lava Plume serves as Heatran's STAB move. Its high burn rate means most physical attackers will have second thoughts about switching in. If you use Will-O-Wisp in the second slot, use Flamethrower instead of Lava Plume since the higher burn rate is unnecessary. Stealth Rock is used to aid Heatran's team. Earth Power can be used to hit opposing Heatran, while Roar prevents Heatran becoming set-up fodder.

    248 HP EVs maximise Heatran's overall bulk. 40 Speed EVs let Heatran outrun max Speed Adamant Azumarill and burn it before it can attack. The rest is placed in Special Defence for bulk. Alternatively, a spread of 248 HP / 52 SDef / 208 Spd with a Timid nature can be used to outrun max Speed Mega Tyranitar and burn it before it starts a sweep.

    Choice Scarf

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) / Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast / Overheat
    - Earth Power
    - Ancient Power / Hidden Power Ice
    - Flash Cannon / Flamethrower / Hidden Power Ice

    Heatran's only disappointing stat is its Speed. Choice Scarf patches that up, allowing Modest Heatran to outrun 252 Speed Timid Greninja. Overheat is Heatran's most powerful STAB move and is recommended due to this set's hit-and-run nature, but Fire Blast has more consistent power. Earth Power wrecks most opposing Fire-types. Ancient Power OHKOes Volcarona and Talonflame; Hidden Power Ice OHKOes Gliscor and Dragonite after Stealth Rock. The last slot is best used for a reliable STAB move. Flash Cannon can be used to badly wound Tyranitar, while Flamethrower is more reliable late-game. Alternatively, Hidden Power Ice can be used with Stone Edge if you need a reliable way to hit Dragonite, Gliscor and Landorus-T.

    EVs maximise Speed and power. This set is good at getting surprise kills on Pokémon that expect to outrun and KO, like Mega Pinsir.

    Stallbreaker
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd -Atk)
    Taunt
    Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    Earth Power

    This set is designed to render most walls useless. Taunt shuts down defensive Pokémon and boosting sweepers. Will-O-Wisp can be used to cripple incoming physical attackers like Landorus-T, Azumarill and Tyranitar. Toxic can be used to cripple walls like Unaware Clefable, defensive Rotom-W (although Heatran still shouldn't stay in on it) and Chansey that lack Heal Bell or Aromatherapy. As for STABs, go with Fire Blast if you prefer power, Flamethrower if you prefer accuracy. Earth Power scores supereffective hits on Rock types and opposing Fire types.

    Max Speed and a Timid nature is needed to outrun Adamant Excadrill and either KO or cripple it before it can OHKO with Earthquake. Air Balloon is used to give Heatran a temporary immunity to its X4 weakness, thus increasing switch in opportunities.

    Offensive Stealth Rock
    Heatran @ Air Balloon / Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd -Atk)
    Stealth Rock
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Hidden Power Ice / Ancient Power

    Meet one of the most reliable Stealth Rock setters in OU. In addition to setting up Stealth Rock, this set beats most of the tier's Rapid Spinners and Defoggers, only losing to the uncommon Latias. Stealth Rock is the crux of this set, helping Heatran and its teammates get additional KOs. Fire Blast serves as the STAB move, 2HKOing Zapdos and Mandibuzz (former needs Stealth Rock to guarantee the 2HKO). Earth Power hits Rock types and opposing Fire types hard. Hidden Power Ice OHKOes Gliscor and Landorus-T most of the time, while Ancient Power can be used to nail Talonflame and Volcarona.

    The EVs maximise Speed and Power. A Timid nature is a must, as it lets Heatran outrun Adamant Excadrill.

    Synergy

    Mega Venusaur has superb synergy with Heatran, resisting Water and Fighting moves while Heatran resists Flying and Psychic moves. Clefable and Sylveon can take out the Fighting-types that give Heatran grief and pass Wishes to keep it healthy. Offensive Pokémon enjoy having the sets that use Stealth Rock around for the extra O-2HKOs they can get. Bulky Water types are good teammates too, able to switch in on the Water moves Heatran fears, while it can take the Grass type moves for them. Assault Vest Azumarill resists Water and Fighting moves, and counters Keldeo, a Pokémon Heatran struggles with. Gyarados resists Water and Fighting moves while being immune to Ground ones - it also greatly appreciates having a way to get rid of Ferrothorn. Choice Rotom-W can lure in and cripple special walls with Trick, while being immune to the Ground moves Heatran draws in. Heatran can in turn take the Grass moves aimed at Rotom-W, as well as the stray Toxics. Many of the Fighting-types Heatran fears also make good partners. Conkeldurr and Poison Heal Breloom (once its Orb has activated) can switch in on anything Chansey does and smash it to pieces, while Heatran can take the Flying, Psychic and Fairy moves (and Fire moves in Breloom's case) they draw in.

    Other Options

    A full-on Toxic stall set could work with Toxic, Substitute, Protect and Lava Plume / Flamethrower. If you choose to do that, use the set-up of the specially defensive set. A Weather Trapper set with Sunny Day, Magma Storm, and Solar Beam could be used, but with the death of weather wars, it's rather obsolete. Magma Storm could be used on the Stallbreaker set to trap the likes of Chansey. Heatran's old TormenTran set could be run to deal with many of its usual checks and any Choice item user - however with stall teams being much rarer now it's not nearly as valuable. Heatran can attempt to sweep with Flame Charge, but it lacks a way of boosting its Special Attack and is easily walled. Likewise, Heatran can use Power Herb with Solar Beam to help teams that run Flying-type Pokémon. A RestTalk set could also be done but doesn't accomplish anything the existing specially defensive set doesn't. A Choice Specs set makes for a good wallbreaker, but Heatran's lacklustre Speed hinders it in this role.

    Checks and Counters

    Rotom-W is one of the best checks, able to 2HKO offensive sets with Hydro Pump while only fearing Toxic. Chansey walls Heatran with ease and can use Natural Cure or Heal Bell to rid herself of status, but it will hate Taunt. Conkeldurr can handle anything the defensive sets do and wreck them with Drain Punch, but Fire Blast will sting. Greninja and Keldeo outrun and OHKO with their respective super effective STABs. Gyarados, its mega evolution, and Azumarill can take it down with their Water STAB moves, but both are crippled by burn. Tyranitar can OHKO with Earthquake or Superpower, but Earth Power and Flash Cannon will hurt and it will also hate a burn. Thundururs can shut down defensive sets with Taunt and smash offensive ones with Focus Blast, but offensive sets do massive damage with Fire Blast. Faster Ground-types like Jolly Excadrill, Gliscor, both formes of Landorus, and Garchomp outrun and OHKO with their respective Ground STAB moves, but none can safely switch in on offensive sets. In addition, apart from special attacking Landorus-I, all greatly fear burns. Latios can lure it in and OHKO with Earthquake or 2HKO with a Life Orb-boosted Surf.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2014
  2. Nog

    Nog Fuck Curselax

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    General

    - It's speed is poor for an offensive threat sure, but for a wall, 77 isn't anywhere near poor.

    Stealth Rock

    - Life Orb is sub optimal simply because Air Balloon and Leftovers are far superior. You are provided a bit more power but 77 isn't a great speed tier if you are trying to pose an offensive threat in the first place and you lose some much needed utility. Air Balloon provides support for Heatran by taking away it's largest weakness and Leftovers provides a bit of longevity.
    - Hidden Power Grass is a very odd choice and it can net some surprise damage to common switch ins, but I'd say that you would be safer relying on teammates to beat checks and counters.

    Specially Defensive

    - Almost all Heatran that are played right now are specially defensive with Stealth Rocks yet your set doesn't mention the latter. I would go as far to say that it deserves it's own slot, but will leave this up to qc.

    Sub Status

    - You want to run enough speed to outpace Adamant Excadrill (224 Timid iirc), so that you can burn them before they have a chance to KO you or break your substitute.

    Other Options

    - Power Herb Solar Beam is a fantastic partner to bird spam teams because Pokemon like Rotom-Wash or Tyranitar counter common Pokemon found on bird spam teams (Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Staraptor) and are hit hard by a powerful grass move.
    - Torment is aimed more at offensive teams because they tend to use the same moves over and over whereas stall tends to run a set pattern of moves (status, recover, atk, swap, etc) and thus taunt is more efficient.

    Add in a synergy section please.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  3. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Actually by nature Fire types are immune to burns. Have made the changes to General, Stealth Rock, Specially Defensive and Sub Status. Synergy section has been added, as has Power Herb Solar Beam to OO.

    Going to test RestTalk Heatran and see how it performs.
     
  4. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Just figured it's worth a mention; I've found Taunt to be extremely effective on the specially defensive set. The set's main problems is that it can't deal enough damage to the likes of Sylveon, Togekiss and friends, because they have ready access to Heal Bell + Recovery, and thus can stall for days. Taunt prevents them from using their recovery moves, and thus either forces them out or stalls them to death.

    Sure, I can't guarantee you're gonna be facing a lot of Sylveon and Togekiss, as they can't do jack shit to Heatran unless they run coverage, but it works damn well against stall teams due to Heatran's great combination of typing, bulk, movepool, and useable Speed. You can also mention running about 28 Spd EVs to outrun and shut down 0 Speed Mandibuzz with this set?

    I generally have it over Roar.
     
  5. Nog

    Nog Fuck Curselax

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    Make sure to mention that the power herb set is best partnered with fly spam teams so players don't randomly stick it in a team. In regards to rest talk Heatran, I have used it and it wasn't great at all. I usually just run rest of I run any recovery at all and you will need a cleric if the use the latter (mainly used on stall if that wasn't obvious).
     
  6. Rohail

    Rohail Active Member

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    Ok so hello, I have a few major comments about this analysis @Dr. Doom:

    First of all, the set order is wrong atm. The set order should look as so: Specially Defensive / Choice Scarf / Substitute / Choice Specs / Offensive SR /maybe RestTalk (still not decided if this should be included, but I'm leaning towards a no).

    Now, we need to change the slashes on some of the sets:

    Specially Defensive
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect / Stealth Rock
    - Roar / Taunt
    - Toxic / Will-O-Wisp / Earth Power
    EVs: 244 HP / 224 SpD / 40 Spe

    Lava Plume is honestly needed as a main STAB move. Protect definitely has its uses, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary to have, which is why I slashed Stealth Rock next to it. Roar and Taunt are up to personal preference and I don't really need to explain what they do. Now, I slashed WoW with Toxic to help spread burn more easily and also let Heatran deal with Mega Mawile with much more ease. Earth Power is really not needed imo, and is borderlining Set Comments, but you can keep it if you/other QCs want. Now, the EV spread retains your HP EVs, but adds the Speed EVs to outspeed those odd max Speed Azumarill so you can burn them or at least attempt to burn them with Lava Plume before they hit you with Waterfall (Aqua Jet doesn't OHKO). Finally, please mention Stone Edge in the set comments to be able to beat Taunt + Bulk Up/Swords Dance Talonflame (which you actually lose to otherwise).

    Choice Scarf
    3rd moveslot: Hidden Power Ice / Stone Edge

    Stone Edge OHKOes Mega Charizard-Y, Volcarona, and Talonflame, letting Heatran revenge kill both of those too. Also, remove Dragon Pulse from this as both HP Ice and Dragon Pulse 2HKO Latios:

    252+ SpA Heatran Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 188-222 (62.2 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Heatran Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 134-158 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    While it does miss out on the 2HKO on Latias and both the Latis with Timid, HP Ice's other utility is usually far more important. Dragon Pulse can still be mentioned in Set Comments though.

    Choice Specs
    Unless there is anything the extra HP EVs let Heatran survive, remove them and keep the generic 252 SpA / 252 Spe EVs.

    I'll nitpick the tiny details after we have discussed my changes. I'd like other QC members to weigh in on this as well please :)
     
    Finchinator likes this.
  7. trc

    trc Active Member

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    Hey, nice analysis. Before I check it, I'd like to weigh in my opinion on the set order:
    • I believe the order should be: Specially Defensive / Choice Scarf / Sub + Status / Choice Specs. I personally don't agree with the inclusion of an offensive Stealth Rock set when the only set that should really be setting up SR is the specially defensive set, as it has many more opportunities to do so with the bulk it invests. RestTalk is a no from me.
    General
    Sandstorm really isn't that notable to mention, especially in an overview. I'd remove it, as it is basically something intrinsic to all Rock-, Ground-, and Steel-types. Poor Speed also isn't worth mentioning, as the defensive set has enough, the Scarf set has enough, and the Specs set doesn't rely on Speed; it is basically a nuke which can tank a hit by virtue of its typing. Talonflame and Genesect aren't the only thing you wall either, Mega Mawile, Latios lacking EQ, and a while bunch of other stuff you can pretty much tell by playing.

    Specially Defensive
    Sorry to go against you @Rohail, but I believe Protect is absolutely mandatory on the set. It allows you to scout for Ground-type coverage and Choice-locked Fighting-type moves, earn back Leftovers recovery, stall things out with Toxic or WOW. The support is too beneficial to ever give up in my opinion. 40 Speed is mainly important for Mega Mawile which Knocks Off your Leftovers.

    Choice Scarf
    Dragon Pulse is honestly terrible, please remove it. I'd backslash another Fire-type STAB instead in that slot, one that is reliable or Fire Blast if using Overheat. Slash Stone Edge with Earth Power for Mega Charizard Y / Talonflame / Volcarona.

    Sub + Status
    Slash Protect before Earth Power to rack up more damage, solid Toxic stallers need Protect. Make sure to mention an alternate Speed benchmark when using Toxic.

    Choice Specs
    Spread should be max Speed Modest. As you are wallbreaking, obviously you should max Special Attack, but the extra Speed beats a bunch of stuff which is nice because you don't /really/ want to over-invest in bulk, it isn't the focus of the set, whereas the extra Speed lets you beat anything between this benchmark and yours. I'd also remove HP Grass / Dragon Pulse and replace with a secondary Fire-type STAB.

    Synergy
    You can mention either Pokemon commonly found on Stall (Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Clefable, Skarmory, Gliscor, Chansey, Suicune, Gothitelle, Quagsire, etc). Most other Pokemon benefit from Heatran rather than help it.

    Other Options
    No to TormenTran main set. Also just a note, something you do frequently is say a completely different Pokemon outclasses another. Not really. In this case there is some grey area, but Flame Charge Power Herb Heatran isn't directly outclassed by Volcarona, as the SR weakness and ability to not be revenged by Talonflame with ease are huge differences.

    Checks and Counters
    No Garchomp? Landorus-T? Gliscor?
     
  8. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Have reordered the sets, but for now I think I'll leave offensive Stealth Rock since it's a very good Stealth Rock setter - it also beats most of the common Defoggers / Rapid Spinners. Have relegated RestTalk to OO, and changed the spread on Specially Defensive and Specs.
     
  9. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Bump. I can't think of anything more to change/add, so would the QC people mind having a look?
     
  10. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    First off, I want to nitpick some moves - what should / shouldn't be listed, order, etc.

    SDef Tran has a lot of viable moves - Lava Plume, Toxic, Protect, Roar, Wisp, Stealth Rock, etc. Lava Plume (or Flamethrower with Wisp) is the only lock, in my opinion. Toxic and Will-O-Wisp should both be put into one slot in that slash order as a heavy majority of Heatran run a status move, but obviously none run two. As for Protect, Taunt, Roar, and Stealth Rock, I view Stealth Rock as being solely dependent on if a team has another rocker, so it's not really a matter of personal preference. Therefore, it cannot be listed alone and if it's not being used, then odds are you're going to want to either Taunt opposing Defoggers as you have had another Pokemon set up SR, or Roar out opposing Pokemon in general to spread hazard damage. So, Stealth Rock / Taunt / Roar works well. Finally, Protect is the only non-listed move and while it scouts well against offensive teams, Roar is generally effective to stop sweeps and spread damage, so it's a good alternative and deserves more mention. This gives us:
    1. Lava Plume (can backslash F-Thrower because Wisp+Plume isn't too good)
    2. Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
    3. Stealth Rock / Taunt / Roar
    4. Protect / Roar

    On Scarf Heatran, I also think some revisions are required. Obviously, a fire STAB and Earth Power are locks, so in the first two slots you will be using those. As for the fire stab in specifics, Fire Blast should be front-slashed for consistently hard-hitting opponents without severe draw-backs while Overheat should be back-slashed (willing to debate this) with this also having Flamethrower back-slashed later on for a secure STAB in conjunction with Overheat. Now that the first two slots are covered, the next two can generally use four moves: Flash Cannon, Stone Edge, HP Ice, and Flamethrower (only with Overheat). I personally like Stone Edge for Talon and some other Pokemon, but it has less overall use than HP Ice, hitting Garchomp, Dragonite, Landorus(-T), Gliscor, etc. so it's hard to pick one to front-slash over the other. Then, Flash Cannon hits fairy types and has some other use like Rock types and dragons neutrally when you lack HP Ice. After some deep thought, I think it should go like this:
    Fire Blast / Overheat
    Earth Power
    Stone Edge / HP Ice
    Flash Cannon / HP Ice / Flamethrower

    On the overheat variants, Overheat/EarthPower/HP Ice/Flamethrower is probably best. Otherwise, it's hard to pick past Fire Blast/EarthPower, so feel free to discuss this more as I just used my own biased view (and I lack extensive scarf tran first hand experience this generation, so there's that, too).

    The SubStatus set should not have protect mentioned at all, otherwise it's alright, in my opinion. Contemplate front-slashing Toxic over Wisp, but that's up to personal preference. To reiterate in protect, SubToxic Heatran can work against common bulky waters and such, but it's otherwise dead-weight more often than not and scouting with protect while also having sub is slightly contradictory. Also, mono-flamethrower with so much SAtk investment isn't optimal. I would be fine with it if you mention in the set comments that you should use a bulkier spread with SubToxic.

    Specs is good. SR is good if we keep it, I am on the fence.

    With this being said, explanations, C&C, and OO looks fine. Will approve once this is discussed at a bit more length and changes, if needed, are added.
     
  11. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    OK thanks for the advice Finch, will make changes soon.
     
  12. trc

    trc Active Member

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    I disagree, I think Protect is necessary on SubStatus and should be the primary option if it slashed. A typical SubToxic Pokemon has a move like Protect or Kings Shield to stall hazard damage, this is especially important on Hetran which has no recovery so Protect essentially serves a double purpose, gaining
    Leftovers recovery and stalling the opponent.
     
  13. MewtwoHidden

    MewtwoHidden My Hax Makes Me Famous

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    I agree with TRC about Protect, the Lefties recovery along with status damage tends to put the opponent in a hard choice of whether to switch to something else and potentially take a hit, or stay in and take more toxic/burn damage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  14. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    The set you're describing TRC is a full Toxic stall set - the point of SubStatus Heatran is that you've got a status spreading Pokémon that can still pull its weight offensively. If you're running Sub/Protect/Toxic/Flamethrower you might as well go for a defensive spread, since max attack investment isn't much good when you're only using 1 attack. Reckon it could be worth splitting that set into the traditional SubStatus and Toxic Stall?
     
  15. trc

    trc Active Member

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    That isn't the point of SubStatus Heatran though. Maybe SubWisp but that works different because it typically sets up a Substitute on a switch and then cripples an offensive mon before its Sub breaks. SubToxic is typically designed to stall with Protect, the same way that Gliscor or Aegislash do, just with different aspects which is why Heatran is used over one or the other (most often its typing).
     
  16. Nog

    Nog Fuck Curselax

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    Just going to point out that sub / status runs enough speed to out speed adamant Excadrill this gen, max special attack, and the rest in HP. Another thing is the point of sub / status isn't necessarily to spread status but actually provide a way for Heatran to cripple its counters (Keldeo, Rotom-Wash, etc).
     
  17. MewtwoHidden

    MewtwoHidden My Hax Makes Me Famous

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    Maybe add Magma Storm + Power Herb Solar Beam in OO to trap bulky waters as they switch in as well as giving you the switch advantage if you wish to take it due to the opponent's Pokemon being trapped.

    If something along the lines of Quagsire/Rotom-W come in on Magma Storm, Solar Beam kill em. If something like Garchomp comes in then you could (ab)use the opportunity to go into Skarmory, as an example.
     
  18. trc

    trc Active Member

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    In a similar vein, Powe Herb + Flame Charge + Solar Beam + Hidden Power Ice has been used by a few people and could probably be thrown into OO for being able to lure in and beat things like Rotom-W, Garchonp, and Landorus-T.
     
  19. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Offensive Stealth Rock is now in OO, Scarf and Specially Defensive sets have been changed as per Finch's suggestion. I've also listed a Toxic stall set in OO, but I can move it up if there's enough support.

    Would appreciate it if the QC people checked this - I'd like to get it finished.
     
  20. Nog

    Nog Fuck Curselax

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    Does Specs even warrant its own slot? I have yet to see a single one this gen and tbh I find it quite underwhelming. Also you need to slash Protect on the Sub / Status set as it mainly runs only one attack rather than two.
     
  21. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I've had great results with the Specs set myself, but if people feel it isn't worth it I'll move it into OO. I really disagree with Protect on the SubStatus set - that set is supposed to lure in Heatran's usual checks and counters and then cripple them, not be a Toxic Staller.
     
  22. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    I guess you can back-slash timid on specs and otherwise, it looks great thanks to the previous QCing and such, so yea approved
     
  23. Rohail

    Rohail Active Member

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    K, time for a QC check ^.^

    General
    Remove the part of it countering Gene since it's now banned. Give Heatran's Flash Fire ability a strong mention as well, as it's what lets Heatran wall stuff like Talonflame. Also mention how, because of its weaknesses, it really struggles against common offensive Pokemon like Keldeo, Greninja, Landorus, Focus Blast Thundurus, etc. You can even throw in a mention of how the Pokemon that Tran walls are now finding a way to get around it (like EQ Latios, Taunt + BU Tflame, and Focus Punch Mega Mawile). Finally, mention how Heatran has a relatively small movepool, giving it very few options offensively.

    Specially Defensive
    I honestly would skip the Latios calc since Surf is actually almost never used on it anymore, they usually prefer Tbolt or Roost, and if they wanna beat Tran, they'll use EQ. Next up, mention the actual stuff that Heatran walls, like the aformentioned Latios without EQ, Mixed Aegislash, (Mega) Scizor lacking Superpower, etc.

    Choice Scarf
    Please explain why Overheat works well on ScarfTran; its increased power is useful because Scarfed mons are meant to act like hit-and-run Pokemon, so they usually don't mind the Special Attack drop. Remove the mention of outrunning +1 Mega Gyara because you can't do shit to it anyway. Instead, mention how Heatran can sometimes get a surprise KO on the likes of Mega Pinsir that think they outspeed and cut its potential sweep short.

    SubStatus
    Don't have much to say about this since I haven't used it enough, so I'll leave this to the other QCs.

    Choice Specs
    @TRC and I were talking, and we decided that Specs isn't worthy of a main set. With this and the fact that @Nog also supports its removal, I say you should scrap it and mention it in OO instead. SpecsTran just isn't fast enough to utilize the item well enough, and tbh it's outclassed as a special nuke by mons like Landorus and Keldeo, so it's much better off putting its defensive utility to use. Also, the calcs you provided aren't all that useful because Heatran checks Mega Venu without Specs and Lando-T and uninvested Gliscor are easily OHKOed by other Special Attackers anyway, and getting a Flash Fire boost while having SR and landing two Fire Blasts on Chansey is much easier said than done.

    Synergy
    Remove this because Specs will now be in OO.

    Other Options
    Remove both these points. The first one should go in the set comments of the first set while the last one is moot since Stone Edge is better and already mentioned on the Scarf set.
    Remove the first point as Power Herb + Solar Beam > Sunny Day + Solar Beam because Solar Beam is too obvious on sets that run Sunny Day and thus won't get far as to luring out and beating Rotom-W/other bulky Waters.
    252 SpA Heatran Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 124-148 (40.7 - 48.6%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery ?_? I'd just say remove this point as a whole because Hidden Powers other than Ice are frankly quite terrible on Tran.

    Checks and Counters
    This is good, just remove the Specs comment on Chansey since it's now OO. Also mention how specially offensive Pokemon that tran should be able to wall run coverage moves to get past it (i.e. EQ Latios, Focus Blast Thundy and Mega Garde, etc.).

    This is pretty good, just implement these changes and I'll give this another look @Dr. Doom. Also please excuse any mistakes I may have made because this was done at 3:30 a.m. my time o.o
     
  24. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Made the changes. I am surprised Genesect got banned, but if they feel it'll make for a better OU I won't judge.
     
  25. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Bump. Would the QC people mind checking again now? I've made all the suggested changes.
     
  26. trc

    trc Active Member

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    Approved whatever number/3
     
  27. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    OK, written in full awaiting Grammar Patrol.
     
  28. Samphire

    Samphire Too much hard work!

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    @RedJoker25
    Thanks for your checks so far, I am happy with those. Can you check this one next and tag me in your corrections please?
     
  29. RedJoker25

    RedJoker25 Resident Lurker Server Moderator Article Contributor Server Moderator Article Contributor

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    Grammar check (hi @Samphire)

    Draft:
    General

    Heatran has been a great Pokémon in OU ever since it arrived in DP. Heatran has solid stats all around: its 91/106/106 defences mean it can take hits well while its 130 base Special Attack means it can dish them out too. While it lost its Ghost- and Dark-type resistances, it gained another x4 resistance to Fairy-type moves. Its typing also means that it's immune to burn and poison. It also has a great support movepool including Stealth Rock, Will-O-Wisp, Roar, and Taunt, which means it can run offensive, defensive, and support sets equally well, making Heatran easy to incorporate into almost any team. Heatran also has the useful ability to counter dangerous Pokémon like Talonflame, Latios, and Mega Mawile. OU is kinder to it this generation: Terrakion, Politoed, Jellicent, Starmie, Donphan and Dugtrio have all left the tier. There is also no more permanent rain.

    Nevertheless, Heatran has its faults. No reliable recovery undermines its great bulk, and its offensive movepool is rather small. It also struggles with common Pokémon like Landorus-T, Greninja, and Keldeo, while several of the Pokémon it used to wall are finding ways of getting around it, such as Latios running Earthquake and Mega Mawile running SubPunch. As good as its typing is, it also gives Heatran weaknesses to common Ground and Fighting moves, with the former being a x4 weakness. Also in the new generation, several of its attacks have been weakened, such as Fire Blast and Hidden Power.

    Specially Defensive

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 244 HP / 228 SDef / 40 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume / Flamethrower
    - Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
    - Stealth Rock / Roar / Taunt
    - Protect

    This set capitalises on Heatran's defensive capabilities, but it can also be a great stallbreaker. Lava Plume serves as Heatran's STAB move. Its high burn rate means most physical attackers will have second thoughts about switching in. If you use Will-O-Wisp in the second slot, use Flamethrower instead of Lava Plume since the higher burn rate is unnecessary. Stealth Rock can be used to aid Heatran's team, while Roar and Taunt prevent Heatran from becoming set-up fodder. Protect allows Heatran to scout the opponent's moves while getting another turn of Leftovers recovery.

    244 HP EVs make its HP divisible by 16, thus maximising Leftovers recovery. 40 Speed EVs let Heatran outrun 252 Speed Adamant Mega Mawile. The rest is in Special Defence to increase Heatran's special bulk.

    Choice Scarf

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) / Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast / Overheat
    - Earth Power
    - Stone Edge / Hidden Power Ice
    - Flash Cannon / Flamethrower / Hidden Power Ice

    Heatran's only disappointing stat is its Speed. Choice Scarf patches that up, allowing Modest Heatran to outrun 252 Speed Timid Greninja. Overheat is Heatran's most powerful STAB move and is recommended due to this set's hit-and-run nature, but Fire Blast has more consistent power. Earth Power wrecks most opposing Fire-types. Stone Edge OHKOes Volcarona and Talonflame; Hidden Power Ice OHKOes Gliscor and Dragonite after Stealth Rock. The last slot is best used for a reliable STAB move. Flash Cannon can be used to badly wound Tyranitar, while Flamethrower is more reliable late-game. Alternatively, Hidden Power Ice can be used with Stone Edge if you need a reliable way to hit Dragonite, Gliscor and Landorus-T.

    EVs maximise Speed and power. This set is good at getting surprise kills on Pokémon that expect to outrun and KO, like Mega Pinsir.

    Sub Status

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power

    It can be tough trying to decide whether to use offensive or support Heatran. With this set, you can do both. Simply come in on something Heatran scares out like Ferrothorn, Skarmory or Scizor, set up a Substitute, and then either throw status around or attack from behind a shield. As for which status move to throw around, Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers like Landorus-T while Toxic cripples walls like defensive Rotom-W. Heatran can spread both equally well since Fire-, Poison-, and Steel-types rarely switch into it. Fire Blast is Heatran's STAB move and does good damage to anything that doesn't resist it thanks to Heatran's great base 130 Special Attack. Earth Power hits opposing Fire-types for super effective damage.

    The EVs let Heatran outrun 252 Speed Adamant Excadrill and burn it before it can attack. Special Attack is maximised so Heatran can hit hard, while the remainder is in HP for extra bulk. You could run a spread of 216 HP / 252 SAtk / 40 Spd with a Modest nature to outrun maximum Speed Adamant Mega Mawile while being bulkier and more powerful.

    Synergy

    Mega Venusaur has superb synergy with Heatran, resisting Water and Fighting moves while Heatran resists Flying and Psychic moves. Clefable and Sylveon can take out the Fighting-types that give Heatran grief and pass Wishes to keep it healthy. Offensive Pokémon enjoy having the sets that use Stealth Rock around for the extra O-2HKOs they can get. Many of the Fighting-types Heatran fears also make good partners. Conkeldurr and Poison Heal Breloom (once its Orb has activated) can switch in on anything Chansey does and smash it to pieces, while Heatran can take the Flying, Psychic and Fairy moves (and Fire moves in Breloom's case) they draw in.

    Other Options

    Heatran can run a simple Stealth Rock + 3 attacks set if you need a hazard setter that can pull its weight offensively. A full-on Toxic stall set could work with Toxic, Substitute, Protect and Lava Plume / Flamethrower. If you choose to do that, use the set-up of the specially defensive set. A Weather Trapper set with Sunny Day, Magma Storm, and Solar Beam could be used, but with the death of weather wars, it's rather obsolete. Heatran could also run a set with Torment geared towards dealing with many of its usual checks and any Choice item user. Heatran can attempt to sweep with Flame Charge, but it lacks a way of boosting its Special Attack and is easily walled. Likewise, Heatran can use Power Herb with Solar Beam to help teams that run Flying-type Pokémon. A RestTalk set could also be done but doesn't accomplish anything the existing specially defensive set doesn't. A Choice Specs set makes for a good wallbreaker, but Heatran's lacklustre Speed hinders it in this role.

    Checks and Counters

    Rotom-W is one of the best checks, able to 2HKO offensive sets with Hydro Pump while only fearing Toxic. Chansey walls Heatran with ease and can use Natural Cure or Heal Bell to rid herself of status. Conkeldurr can handle anything the defensive sets do and wreck them with Drain Punch, but Fire Blast will sting. Greninja and Keldeo outrun and OHKO with their respective super effective STABs. Gyarados, its mega evolution, and Azumarill can take it down with their Water STAB moves, but both are crippled by burn. Tyranitar can OHKO with Earthquake or Superpower, but Earth Power and Flash Cannon will hurt and it will also hate a burn. Thundururs can shut down defensive sets with Taunt and smash offensive ones with Focus Blast, but offensive sets do massive damage with Fire Blast. Faster Ground-types like Jolly Excadrill, Gliscor, both formes of Landorus, and Garchomp outrun and OHKO with their respective Ground STAB moves, but none can safely switch in on offensive sets. In addition, apart from special attacking Landorus-I, all greatly fear burns. Latios can lure it in and OHKO with Earthquake or 2HKO with a Life Orb-boosted Surf.

    Changes:
    General

    Heatran has been a great Pokémon in OU ever since it arrived in DP. Heatran has solid stats all around: its 91/106/106 defences mean it can take the hits well while its 130 base sSpecial aAttack means it can dish them out too. While it lost its Ghost-type and Dark-type resistances, it gained another Xx4 resistance to Fairy-type moves. Its typing also means that it's immune to Bburns and Ppoison. It also has a great support movepool including Stealth Rock, Will-O-Wisp, Roar, and Taunt, which means it can run offensive, defensive, and support sets equally well, which makesing Heatran easy to incorporate into almost any team with good results. Heatran also has the useful ability to counter dangerous Pokémon like Talonflame, Latios, and Mega Mawile. OU is kinder to it this time aroundgeneration: Terrakion, Politoed, Jellicent, Starmie, Donphan and Dugtrio have all left the tier. There is also no more permanent Rrain.

    HowNevertheless, Heatran has its faults. No reliable recovery undermines its great bulk, and its offensively its movepool is rather small. It also struggles with common Pokémon like Landorus(T)-T, Greninja, and Keldeo, andwhile several of the Pokémon it used to wall are finding ways of getting around it, likesuch as Latios running Earthquake and Mega Mawile running SubPunch. As good as its typing is, sadly it also gives Heatran weaknesses to common Ground and Fighting moves, with the former being a Xx4 weakness. Andlso in the new generation, several of its attacks have been weakened, such as (Fire Blast, and Hidden Power).

    Specially Defensive

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    Calm Nature (+SDef -Atk)
    EVs: 244 HP / 228 SDef / 40 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    -
    Lava Plume / Flamethrower
    - Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
    - Stealth Rock / Roar / Taunt
    - Protect

    This set capitalises on Heatran's defensive capabilities -, but it can also be a great stallbreaker. Lava Plume serves as Heatran's STAB move. Its high burn rate means most physical attackers will have second thoughts about switching in. If you're usinge Will-O-Wisp in the 2second slot, use Flamethrower, instead of Lava Plume since the higher burn rate is unnecessary. Stealth Rock can be used to aid Heatran's team, while Roar and Taunt prevent Heatran from becoming set -up fodder. Protect allows Heatran to scout the opponent's moves while baggetting another turn of Leftovers recovery.

    244 HP EVs make its HP divisible by 16, thus maximising Leftovers recovery. 40 Speed EVs lets Heatran outrun 252 Speed Adamant Mega Mawile. The rest is in Special Defence to increase Heatran's special bulk.

    Choice Scarf

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) / Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    EV: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    - Fire Blast / Overheat
    - Earth Power
    - Stone Edge / Hidden Power Ice
    - Flash Cannon / Flamethrower / Hidden Power Ice

    Heatran's only disappointing stat is its sSpeed. Choice Scarf patches that up, allowing Modest Heatran to outrun 252 Speed Timid Greninja (with a Modest nature). Overheat is theHeatran's most powerful STAB, move and is recommended due to this set's hit -and -run nature., but Fire Blast ihas more consistent hpowever. Earth Power wrecks most opposing Fire -types. Stone Edge OHKOes Volcarona and Talonflame; Hidden Power Ice OHKOes Gliscor and Dragonite after Stealth Rock Dragonite. The last slot is best used for a reliable STAB move. Flash Cannon can be used to badly wound Tyranitar, while Flamethrower is a more reliable STAB to use late -game. Alternatively, Hidden Power Ice can be used with Stone Edge if you need a reliable way to hit Dragonite, Gliscor and Landorus-T.

    EVs maximise sSpeed and power. This set can is good at getting surprise kills on Pokémon that expect to outrun and KO, like Mega Pinsir.

    Sub Status

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    Timid Nature (+Spd -Atk)
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    -
    Substitute
    - Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power

    It can be tough trying to decide whether to use offensive Heatran or support Heatran. With this set, you can do both at once. Simply come in on something youHeatran scares out like Ferrothorn, Skarmory or Scizor, set up a Substitute, and then you can either throw status around or attack from behind a shield. As for which status move to throw around, Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers like Landorus-T while Toxic cripples walls like defensive Rotom-W. Heatran can spread both equally well, since Fire-, Poison-, and Steel -types rarely switch into it. Fire Blast is Heatran's STAB, move and still does good damage to anything nothat doesn't resisting it thanks to Heatran's great base 130 sSpecial aAttack. Earth Power hits opposing Fire -types for super effective damage.

    The EVs let Heatran outrun 252 Speed Adamant Excadrill and burn it before it can attack. Special Attack is maximised so Heatran can still hit hard, withhile the remainder is in HP for extra bulk. You could run a set upread of 216 HP / 252 SAtk / 40 Spd with a Modest nature to outurun maximum Speed Adamant Mega Mawile while being bulkier and more powerful and bulkier.

    Synergy

    Mega Venusaur gethas superb synergy with Heatran, resisting Water and Fighting moves while Heatran resists Flying and Psychic moves. Clefable and Sylveon can take out the Fighting -types that give Heatran grief and pass it Wishes to keep it healthy. Offensive Pokémon enjoy having the sets that use Stealth Rock around for the extra O-2HKOs they can get. Many of the Fighting -types Heatran fears also make good partners. Conkeldurr and Poison Heal Breloom (once its Orb has activated) can switch in on anything Chansey does and smash it to pieces, while Heatran can take the Flying, Psychic and Fairy moves (and Fire moves in Breloom's case) they draw in.

    Other Options

    Heatran can run a simple Stealth Rock + 3 attacks set if you need a hazard setter that can pull its weight offensively. A full -on Toxic stall set could work, with Toxic, Substitute, Protect and Lava Plume / Flamethrower. If you choose to do that, use the set -up of the specially defensive set. A Weather Trapper set with Sunny Day, Magma Storm, and Solar Beam could be used, but with the death of weather wars, it's rather obsolete. Heatran could also run a set with Torment geared towards dealing with many of its usual checks and of course any Choice item user. Heatran couldan attempt to sweep with Flame Charge, but it lacks a way of boosting its sSpecial aAttack and is too easily walled. Likewise, Heatran can use a Power Herb with Solarb Beam to help teams that run Flying -type Pokémon. A RestTalk set could also be done, but doesn't really accomplish anything the existing specially defensive set doesn't. A Choice Specs set makes for a good wallbreaker, but unfortunately Heatran's lacklustre Speed hinders it in this role.

    Checks and Counters

    Rotom-W is one of the best checks, able to 2HKO offensive sets with Hydro Pump while only fearing Toxic. Chansey walls Heatran with ease, and can use Natural Cure or Heal Bell to rid herself of status. Conkeldurr can handle anything the defensive sets can do and wreck them with Drain Punch, but Fire Blast will sting. Greninja and Keldeo outrun and OHKO with their respective super effective STABs. Gyarados, its mega evolution, and Azumarill can take it down with their Water STAB moves, but both are crippled by Bburns. Tyranitar can OHKO with Earthquake or Superpower, but Earth Power and Flash Cannon will hurt and it will also hate a burn. Thundururs can shut down defensive sets with Taunt and smash offensive ones with Focus Blast - however,, but offensive sets do massive damage with Fire Blast. Faster Ground -types like Jolly Excadrill, Gliscor, both formes of Landorus, and Garchomp outrun and OHKO with their respective Ground STAB moves, but none can safely switch in on offensive sets, and. In addition, apart from special attacking Landorus-I, all greatly fear burns. Latios can lure it in and OHKO with Earthquake or 2HKO with a Life Orb -boosted Surf.
     
  30. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    OK made the suggested changes.
     
  31. RedJoker25

    RedJoker25 Resident Lurker Server Moderator Article Contributor Server Moderator Article Contributor

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    It's been a week and then some so retagging @Samphire to look at this.
     
  32. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    OK, made a few changes.

    Removed all mentions of Mega Mawile, since it's been banned
    Adjusted EVs on Specially Defensive set to outrun 0 Spd Mandibuzz and either Taunt it before it can Defog or cripple it with status.

    I'm also seriously considering adding the offensive Stealth Rock set back in - I've tested it, and it works really well. Unlike the Specially Defensive set, it won't kill all your momentum and it beats most of the common Spinners/Defoggers.
     
  33. Sakuya Izayoi

    Sakuya Izayoi love to hate

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    Welp I'm sorry if I'm late to suggest changes, however having played with with Heatran a lot, I believe I can give proper feedback on this.

    Firstly, on the first set, you might want to consider transferring 4 evs from sdef to hp to minimise passive damage, especially sr. It's rather minimal but so is the 4evs in sdef.

    Secondly, I think an alternate spread of 248 HP / 52 SDef / 208 Spd Timid nature with WoW/Taunt/SR/Lava Plume should be listed in the first set, if not in OO. The ev spread allows Heatran to outrun Mega Tyranitar by 1 point and prevent it from setting up DDs by Taunting it or crippling it with a burn. It's not limited to just outrunning Mega Tyranitar alone, but it also outspeeds Jolly Bisharp/Breloom/Adamant Dragonite/both Gyara formes and can eliminate the former two with Lava Plume and cripple the latter 2 with burns. This modified ev spread gives offensive teams much more breathing space to deal with strong physical set-up sweepers as a burned physical sweeper is usually a useless one. Despite a 4x weakness to ground-moves and a 2x weakness to SR, after burning those physical threats, Heatran's natural bulk allows it to tank at least an EQ from even threats such as Mega Tyranitar provided they are burned. Sure it takes a huge chunk but Heatran crippling threats+setting up SR is usually worth the trade off and provides offensive teams a chance to start sweeping and dismantling the opponent's team quickly.

    Quick defensive calcs:
    4 Atk burned Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.7 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk burned Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 248-292 (64.4 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk burned Dragonite Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 234-276 (60.7 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Huge Power burned Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 153-180 (39.7 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power burned Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 228-268 (59.2 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers
    252+ Atk Mold Breaker burned Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 260-308 (67.5 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 153-180 (39.7 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    It's speed investment alone isn't just limited to outrunning Mega Tyranitar, but also helps in preventing opposing defoggers from defogging away SR, especially Mew and Zapdos. WoW+Taunt also works as a rather effective stallbreaker, and can definitely plough through an entire team once Chansey is sufficiently weakened and sdef Gliscor is out of the picture.

    Also, I was never fond of Protect as a compulsory move on Heatran. Sure you scout which STAB Keldeo locks itself into, while also regaining a little bit of Leftovers recovery, but you also lose out on other utility moves, without Taunt/Roar Magic Guard CM Clefable pretty much shits all over Heatran's face, which pretty much defeats the entire purpose of running a fairy check in the first place. Stealth Rock is pretty mandatory on defensive Heatran since it provides immense utility and almost every team should have a stealth rock user. Unless you are pairing Heatran up with Landorus-T/I, definitely SR should be used.

    Second set: Ancient Power can be slashed alongside HP Ice since to deal with BU Talonflame. Honestly both Stone Edge and Ancient Power is really for Talonflame, HP Ice lets it at least slay Landorus-T/I/Chomp/weakened [email protected]

    For the third set, why run 244 speed evs? You might as well run 252speed evs just to speed tie with other offensive heatrans.

    should also take this out.

    Synergy:
    Bulky water types definitely should have a mention here. I cannot stress how important bulky waters are to Heatran as tanking opposing water-type moves is really what Heatran needs. On defensive Heatran sets, Rotom-W/AV Azumarill works really well with Heatran, as both can take on Specs Keldeo really well, something that troubles Heatran greatly. Quagsire also deserves special mention for being able to completely wall pretty much every ground-type bar Mixed Mega chomp. On offensive heatran sets, Heatran really appreciates the wallbreaking power of Specs Keldeo/CB Azu and also really likes a safe switch-in via Rotom-W's Volt Switch, while also pressuring opposing ground-types really well.

    OO:
    idk can eruption+TR work?
    Magma Storm+Taunt to trap and break Chansey
    Metal Sound is pretty fun at forcing switches, especially vs stuff like Azumarill/Latias.

    Calcs for MS:
    252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. -2 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 315-372 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. -2 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 315-372 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. -2 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 210-247 (69.7 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. -2 120 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 243-287 (74.3 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. -2 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. -2 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 247-292 (70.3 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    with a little bit of chip damage, everything kinda gets 1hko'd after a metal sound.

    Might add other stuff later
     
    Finchinator likes this.
  34. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Is it too late to ask for a set change?

    SubStatus is an ass set now, Taunt + Status with Air Balloon is much more efficient, and does a much better job against stall.

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp / Earth Power / Flash Cannon / Stone Edge
    - Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock / EP / FCannon / etc.

    Again, SubStatus is an outdated set, and Air Balloon + Taunt is much more efficient at handling things like Clefable and Zard X, that Heatran is supposed to beat. Earth Power allows you to hit Zard X, Flash Cannon Clefable, Stone Edge Talonflame and Zard Y, and Will-O-Wisp with Taunt to beat Chansey. I really think this set is better to use over SubStatus, which is so outdated, and fails to beat Clefable, which is one of Heatran's biggest assets.
     
  35. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    @Alfalfa

    Have changed the SubStatus set for one with Taunt/Status Move/STAB/Earth Power. It's also now named Stallbreaker, although that name is subject to change. No it's not too late to suggest changes - as metagames adapt, so too must the sets.

    @DracoNinja

    I've listed your spread in the set comments of Specially Defensive and made the changes you suggested to OO and Synergy.
     
  36. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Unaware Clefable, yes. Magic Guard Clefable is unaffected by Toxic, which you should clarify that Toxic works against Unaware Clefable.
     
  37. Samphire

    Samphire Too much hard work!

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    I am on holiday at the mment but will give this a double check when I get back, before letting Fuzzy know so he can edit.
     
  38. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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