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XY LU Viability Ranking

Discussion in 'Gen 6 LU' started by Xdevo, May 28, 2014.

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  1. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    [​IMG] XY LU Viability Ranking Thread[​IMG]
    This is the thread to, as a community, discuss the viability of various Pokemon in LU. The list will be divided into tiers, starting with S and ending with D. Please note that to start this is a preliminary list, so things will (and are supposed to) change.

    Make sure that all suggestions are backed with some good reasons and experience. Posts without any reason or that are obviously theorymon risk receiving infractions. Keep all posts constructive; some debate is obviously required for this project, but any insults are not allowed.

    Thanks to all the randoms that helped with this preliminary list. Also to whoever made the definitions I stole for this (your grammar was bad btw)

    Now onto the list!

    S Tier -
    S Rank is reserved for Pokemon who are extremely threatening and impact the metagame in a major way. These Pokemon can either fulfill a variety of roles or are superlative in performing one task on a team.

    (S)


    (S-)
    [​IMG] Raikou

    A Tier -
    A Rank Pokemon generally perform very well in the tier but have some minor flaws that prevent them from fulfilling their roles consistently. Although threatening, they usually require a bit more team support than S-Rank Pokemon.

    (A+)
    [​IMG] Azelf
    [​IMG] Escavalier
    [​IMG] Meloetta


    (A)
    [​IMG] Abomasnow (Mega)
    [​IMG] Celebi
    [​IMG] Empoleon
    [​IMG] Gligar
    [​IMG] Hitmonlee
    [​IMG] Nidoqueen
    [​IMG] Politoed
    [​IMG] Shaymin
    [​IMG] Starmie

    (A-)
    [​IMG] Alomomola
    [​IMG] Flygon
    [​IMG] Reuniclus

    B Tier -
    B Rank Pokemon usually have some sort of major flaw that prevents them from being a more common presence in the tier. However, they still are able to perform their roles very well with proper team support.

    (B+)
    [​IMG] Aromatisse
    [​IMG] Cofagrigus
    [​IMG] Kingdra
    [​IMG] Milotic
    [​IMG] Registeel
    [​IMG] Rotom-H
    [​IMG] Sharpedro
    [​IMG] Slowking
    [​IMG] Venomoth
    [​IMG] Yanmega

    (B)
    [​IMG] Cobalion
    [​IMG] Cresselia
    [​IMG] Druddigon
    [​IMG] Goodra
    [​IMG] Kabutops
    [​IMG] Noivern
    [​IMG] Tangrowth
    [​IMG] Tornadus-I


    (B-)
    [​IMG] Amoonguss
    [​IMG] Braviary
    [​IMG] Durant
    [​IMG] Froslass
    [​IMG] Hippowdon
    [​IMG] Klefki
    [​IMG] Magneton
    [​IMG] Ninetales
    [​IMG] Rotom-C
    [​IMG] Virizion


    C Tier -
    C Rank Pokemon have notable niches in the metagame, but usually require significant support. These Pokemon face competition for their roles from the higher ranked Pokemon but can find still find use.
    (C+)
    [​IMG] Banette (Mega)
    [​IMG] Exploud
    [​IMG] Houndoom
    [​IMG] Jellicent
    [​IMG] Jolteon
    [​IMG] Ludicolo
    [​IMG] Moltres
    [​IMG] Porygon-Z
    [​IMG] Scrafty
    [​IMG] Shuckle
    [​IMG] Smeargle
    [​IMG] Xatu

    (C)
    [​IMG]Avalugg
    [​IMG] Emboar
    [​IMG]Gallade
    [​IMG] Granbull
    [​IMG]Heliolisk
    [​IMG] Hitmontop
    [​IMG] Poliwrath
    [​IMG] Qwilfish
    [​IMG] Sigilyph
    [​IMG] Slurpuff
    [​IMG] Scyther
    [​IMG] Trevenant
    [​IMG] Vaporeon
    [​IMG] Zoroark

    (C-)
    [​IMG] Gothorita
    [​IMG] Gourgeist
    [​IMG] Vivillion
    [​IMG] Zangoose


    D Tier -
    D Rank Pokemon either have an extremely small niche in the tier or are generally outclassed by higher-ranked Pokemon in a majority of circumstances.

    (D)
    [​IMG] Claydol
    [​IMG] Ditto
    [​IMG] Drapion
    [​IMG] Dugtrio
    [​IMG] Feraligatr
    [​IMG] Gorebyss
    [​IMG] Spiritomb
    [​IMG] Togetic
    [​IMG] Weezing


    Need to be ranked:

    Honchkrow
    Diancie
    Porygon2
    Doublade

    Plus the whole tier has changed without Krook/Doom so this needs to update
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2014
  2. Dzi

    Dzi So Nyuh Shi Dae

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    Snorlax is not on the list. I think it should be A+ or at least A- since it counters S Rank MegaHoundoom really well. Rotom-H is also missing. I think it should be on B+ or A-. Even though its a good scarfer, being weak to Stealth Rock prevents is from switching in and out multiple times. In a tier full of Fire types and Dark types, I think Poliwrath should be on the list. Its a good check/counter to B+-Ranked Sharpedo, B-Ranked Kabutops and S-Ranked Krookodile and Entei resisting Dark-type and Fire-type stabs from them. Water Absorb makes it a great counter to Alomomola (as long as you avoid Toxic), Milotic, Vaporeon etc.
     
  3. TraceofLife

    TraceofLife Lucky Strike

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    both alomomola and sableye are typo'd in the list
     
  4. Nemesis

    Nemesis Sexiest Magikarp alive

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    You forgot Goth, it's at least C-, if not C imho.
    Sharpedo is also typo'd.
    Also, I would rank PZ lower than C+. Concerning Heliolisk, I never understood why it got less than 4% usage, it's on literally every weather team and is also great without weather. B+ at least.
     
  5. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Mega Aerodactyl B+...............................

    Mega Aerodactyl is easily the best Mega in LU imo, its ability to single-handedly destroy offense makes it at least S- material, it outspeeds everything unboosted in the tier, has enough bulk to avoid revenge kills by like Scarf Rotom-H, and can OHKO about 90% of the pokemon listed above it after Rocks. Aerial Ace/Aqua Tail/Stone Edge coverage is insanely good, easpecially with the Tough Claws boost, then either Fire Fang or EQ can help you OHKO even more things like Escavalier and Magnezone.

    Mega Abomasnow deserves an A rank at least, its defensive typing and Hazard weakness is a bit of a let down, but its bulk power and coverage more than make up for this imo, its ridiculously hard to wall Wood Hammer/Blizzard/EQ, then it has Ice Shard priority to hit a bunch of LU mons for SE damage.

    These 2 Megas are definitely better than Mega Ampharos in any case. Mega Ampharos should be B+ imo, its STABs lack the power to OHKO any moderately bulky mon like Krookodile, its bulk whilst decent doesn't really make up for its low Speed, and compared to the usefulness of other Megas, it just pales in comparison

    I don't really see why Vaporeon is a C whilst Alomomola is B+, Vaporeon is basically the Sp Def equivalent of Alomomola, and whilst Phys Def may be a bit more useful in this meta, Vaporeon can still wall some of the same threats, and has to a strong Scald and Heal Bell to be a much better team supporter.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  6. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Snorlax was accidentally removed due to people writing stuff next to it. It'll go in A+.
    Rotom-H to B+ for now.
    Poliwrath for C for now.
    Goth for C- for now.
    Fixing the Alomomola and Sableye, not fixing Sharpedro.

    Heliolisk shouldn't go higher than B- imo, it faces stiff competition from Riakou, who has more power, more speed, and more bulk. Heliolisk only really shines with Rain or Sun Support, but the former doesn't make it much stronger, while the latter makes it even less bulky.

    I don't think that MegAero is "easily the best Mega" in LU, with a weakness to SR, Tough Claws not boosting it's good STAB move, kinda midling Attack (since it can't hold an item), and lack of a good boosting move. It'll probably be moved with more opinions eventually, but it does have it's downsides.

    MegAmphy's niche is that it can be used defensively. It has an amazing Defensive typing, access to nice moves like Heal Bell, considerable bulk, and still hits extremely hard. It supplies much more to a team than does any of the other Megas.

    Alomomola is higher than Vaporeon because it has Regen, which means it can spend less time receiving its own Wishes. A pure Water-typing is also better for physical defense than it is for a Special defender, especially with Riakou in the tier.


    I'd like more opinions on:
    Porygon-Z
    MegaAerodactyl
    MegaAmpharos
    MegaAbomasnow
    Baby Gothy
    Poliwrath
    Rotom-H
    Heliolisk
     
  7. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    But if we just take a look at all the pokemon ranked above it and see how it fares 1v1

    Megadoom - outsped and dies to Aqua Tail/Stone Edge
    Deoxys-D - Has faster Taunt/Defog
    Krookodile - OHKO's with Aqua Tail, lives a Stone Edge
    Entei - OHKO's with Stone Edge, Aqua Tail after Rocks
    Raikou - OHKO'd by EQ after Rocks
    Tornadus-T - OHKO'd by Stone Edge
    Escavalier - OHKO'd by Fire Fang, 2HKO'd by Stone Edge after Rocks
    MegaAmpharos - 2HKO'd by Stone Edge after Rocks, good Check tho
    Machamp - OHKO'd by Aerial Ace after Rocks
    Snorlax - 2HKO'd by SE after Rocks
    Kyurem - OHKO'd by SE, but commonly scarfed
    Meloetta - 2HKO'd
    Azelf - 2HKO'd, possibly OHKO'd after Rocks
    Politeod / Drizzle - Phys Def Toed wins
    Hitmonlee - OHKO'd by Aerial Ace
    Shaymin - 2HKO'd by Aerial Ace, possibly OHKO'd after Rocks
    Celebi - ^ though depends on the set
    Nidoqueen - Offensive OHKO'd by Aqua Tail, Defensive 2HKO'd
    Magnezone - OHKO'd by EQ, outspeeds Scarf
    Cloyster - OHKO's with SE after Rocks, will lose 1v1 tho
    Sableye - Good Check
    Flygon - 2HKO'd by Aerial Ace, will lose 1v1 if Scarf
    Tentacruel - 2HKO'd by EQ, chance to lose to Stone Edge if Rocks are up, good Check
    Gligar - 3HKO'd by Aqua Tail, can't do anything in return
    Reuniclus - Phys Def is a solid Check
    Goodra - 2hko'd by Stone Edge

    These are pokemon ranked more viable than Mega Aero, and only a handful of them can reliably Check Aero, and common Offensive pokemon can certainly not hope to Check him. Obviously he can't be running all moves at all time but EQ/Aqua Tail/SE/Aerial Ace is common and just gives you the coverage you need to plow through a lot of the tier. Mega Houndoom is weak to Rocks also and its currently ranked best in the tier, so that shouldn't be too limiting a factor. The only real limiting factor is the unreliability of Stone Edge.

    As for Vaporeon, the fact it has a Special Attack stat good enough to stop it becoming set up fodder, good Defenses on both sides of the spectrum (when Phys Def) and the ability to support its teammates with Heal Bell support, is just as good if not better than what Alomomola can do, despite the usefulness of Regenerator.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  8. Insane Soul

    Insane Soul Griffith did nothing wrong.

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    I can see Xdevo had a major role in this list, because it's full of mistakes.

    Typos:
    1. In the A tier, Politoed is spelled as "Politeod", and shouldn't be merely classified as Drizzle, because Rain is a sustainable playstyle outside of the toed, as it could be seen in past gens.
    2. In the B- subtier, Braviary is spelled as "Bravairy".
    3. Exploud appears on both C- and D. Make up your mind.
    4. In the C- subtier, Gourgeist is spelled as "Gourgiest"
    5. "Baby Gothy" is actually called Gothorita, and i have never seen anyone call it that.

    Format:
    1. For easier alphabetical search, and because these pokemon still begin with their regular evolutionary stage, the Mega Evolutions should have the prefix "Mega" moved as a suffix put between parenthesis. e.g. MegaHoundoom -> Houndoom (Mega)
    2. In-game party window sprites should be added and put before every single pokemon name, to make the list look more composed. For reference, see the UU Viability Ranking thread, which was made by more capable people, which i am, unfortunately, not a part of.
    3. Since every Tier has a specific colour identification (S is green, A is blue, etc.), the subtiers should also have that matching colour, instead of having the default one, like the pokemon names

    Changes in Tiers S, A and B (might do the others after)
    1. Mega Ampharos A+ ---> A/A-. Using slow volturn tactics is cool, but Mega Ampharos has a fixed damage output that can't be boosted through items or setup moves, which ends up making it get walled by dedicated special walls like Snorlax, Nidoqueen, Celebi (unless Signal Beam) and AV Magnezone (unless Focus Blast). It may take itself out of pinch situations by switching away, but if we take hazards into consideration, its not always switching in for free, and RestTalk is still as unreliable as always without Cleric support or luck in hitting the offensive move.

    2. Goodra A- --> A. Having a superb special movepool and walling some special hitters is incredibly useful, especially if you put MegaDoom, Shaymin and Nidoqueen in your repertoire. Fairy Walls struggle with Sludge Wave/Bomb, while everything else gets hit for super effective damage, since Goodra can run elemental beams, Dragon STAB and Focus Blast. It is still a good sacrificial pokemon to prevent a sweep, being switched out and activating Gooey on a certain physical threat, allowing it to get outsped by whatever you have.

    3. Nidoqueen VS Tentacruel. Both being bulky mons with access to Toxic Spikes in a meta that is desperately trying to find spinners and defoggers, both being hard to switch into, either because of Sheer Force or Knock Off/Scald coverage. Nidoqueen excels at late-game sweeping, especially with Sticky Web, while Tentacruel is the best spinning answer since Starmie and Forretress left. This makes me think either of them would force a subtier change, either with Tentacruel moving to A, or Nidoqueen moving to A-. I support the former.

    4. Mega Aerodactyl B+ --> A. Reasons already stated.

    5. Mega Abomasnow B -> A- With some reasons previously stated. Aboma is a pokemon built to counter weather users, negate Leftovers recovery and provide an hard work in switching in your pokemon. This particular trait has made Aboma run moves like HP Fire (VS Escavalier), Earthquake (VS Magnezone), Ice Shard (for revenge killing) and Leech Seed (by forcing out pokemon who cant hope to touch it).

    6. Trevenant B- --> ??? What is Trevenant doing here? It is outclassed in pretty much everything, be it using Leech Seed, spreading out status or spinblocking, with no sacrifice to team synergy for the player who chooses to use a better pokemon. Hell, Gourgeist is probably better for all this.

    Edit: Also, someone change Sharpedro. It's offensive to my people and my own name. I expect the other LU forum moderators to be more level headed than user Xdevo
     
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  9. Proof

    Proof Well-Known Member

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    Okay so I cleaned up quite a few things on this thread. Primarily, I fixed the spelling errors @Insane Soul pointed out (with the exception of sharpedro). I also put the pokemon in alphabetical order to make it easier to navigate. I changed pokemon such as "Mega Ampharos" to Ampharos (Mega). I removed Kyurem, Sableye, Mega Houndoom, and Magnezone from the list. I also added Starmie, Ditto, Doublade, Kingdra, Klefki, and Magneton to the list as "untested," because Magnezone being gone means Magneton should be ranked, and all of the other mons must be discussed with the other tier leaders. I also added sprites to every pokemon.

    Finally, I'd like to discuss the change of the following pokemon: Mega Ampharos (lower), Gligar (higher), Goodra (lower), Alomomola (higher), Mega Aerodactyl (higher), Mega Abomasnow (higher), Trevanant (lower), Milotic (higher), Exploud (higher), Venomoth (higher), Hitmonchan (lower), Xatu (higher), Druddigon (higher), Qwilfish (higher), Shuckle (higher), and of course, the untested pokemon. Feel free to leave your case in this thread of why you think each pokemon should be ranked where. Aromatisse should get a ranking too imo.

    Also @Celestial Phantom and @Xdevo I'd like to discuss the unrated pokemon since this thread hasn't been updated in a while.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
  10. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    Agreeing with an Aromatisse ranking. I'm not 100% sure of where I think it should be, but it is a pretty good Cleric/Wall despite being in NU. I could see it around C rank with Vaporeon. They perform similar roles and have similar bulk. It edges out Vappy because it isn't weak to Electric and Grass and resists Dark but suffers from less bulk. Vappy also gets Scald and the higher Sp.A which helps.

    Kingdra is a pretty solid mon. It punishes so much of the tier but it kind of NEEDS support. Rain is its favorite support by far, but depending on the set (Physical/Special) it requires different support. Specs in the rain just destroys things. The old school DD+ChestoRest set it still pretty solid choice. The abundance of bulky Water/Grass types and lackluster speed are a huge downfall, but with the support it needs it becomes a huge threat. I can see a nice C/C+ because of how much it wants the rain support.
     
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  11. Proof

    Proof Well-Known Member

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    Okay, some changes have been made, thanks to @Aurist and @Celestial Phantom for helping me out with these.
    Changes:
    1. Alo (B+ to A-)
    2. Aromatisse (Unranked to B+)
    3. Aerodactyl [Mega] (B+ to A)
    4. Abomasnow [Mega] (B to A)
    5. Ampharos [Mega] (A+ to A)
    6. Ditto (untested to D)
    7. Doublade (Untested to B+)
    8. Druddigon (D to B)
    9. Emboar (C- to C)
    10. Exploud (C- to C+)
    11. Goodra (A- to B)
    12. Himonchan (C- to Unranked)
    13. Kingdra (Untested to B+)
    14. Klefki (untested to B-)
    15. Machamp (A+ to S-)
    16. Magneton (Untested to B-)
    17. Malamar (D to Unranked)
    18. Milotic (C to B+)
    19. Primeape (D to Unranked)
    20. Qwilfish (D to C)
    21. Registeel (Unranked to B+)
    22. Scyther (Unranked to C)
    23. Shuckle (D to C+)
    24. Starmie (Untested to A)
    25. Toxicroak (B+ to B-)
    26. Trevenant (B- to C)
    27. Venomoth (C- to B+)
    28. Vivillion (Unranked to C-)
    29. Xatu (C- to C+)
    30. Yanmega (B- to B+)

    The decision was made to leave Gligar at A-. Pokemon that you all can feel free to discuss that may be subject to change are: Alomomola, Gligar, Tornadus-i, and Toxicroak.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
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  12. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Gonna say Tornadus for A-, this thing hits a creamy base 111 Speed, allowing it to outspeed the vast majority of LU, it has fantastic offensive capabilities both Special and Physical, being able to run Bulk Up Acro sets with Superpower/Knock Off coverage which makes it really hard to wall and difficult to revenge kill with Phys Attackers, then Special sets have access to Hurricane and coverage in Grass Knot and Heat Wave, which again leave sit hard to wall. Then Tornadus can be a great abuser and setter of Rain, making its Hurricanes 100% accurate, and also having access to Prankster Rain Dance to support its team. Then finally it can also run Defiant on Physical sets to take advantage of Defog, or abuse Prankster for other things like Tailwind and Taunt. Overall an unpredictable, fast and very strong mon.
     
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  13. AustinXhensL

    AustinXhensL Member

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    why is doublade a b, it is nearly impossible to make a hyper offensive team without him to act as a defensive pivot/end game sweeper.
     
  14. Proof

    Proof Well-Known Member

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    Tornadus-t has been removed from the list due to its recent ban.

    As for Doublade, saying that it's nearly impossible to make an offensive team without it is simply close-minded. No playstyle needs a pokemon on a team, if that were the case, the pokemon itself, or the pokemon it was being used to counter would be very broken. As for Doublade's viability, Shadow sneak is easily one of the best priority moves in the game, due to ghost having only 1 resistance and 1 immunity. That, in conjunction with Doublade's fantastic 350 attack and massive 502 unboosted defense would normally make Doublade top-tier. Unfortunately, however, Doublade clearly doesn't reach its full potential in LU. Every pokemon from S down to A easily takes down Doublade. Krookodile and Entei are both on almost 1/4 teams, and have no trouble disposing of Doublade. Although it can live any 1 hit, it can't afford to be damaged, burned, or knocked off, and is easily baited for Krookodile's pursuit. Machamp and Raikou, the next-best pokemon in the tier, both fare very well against doublade as well. Machamp removes its item and does nearly half its health, whereas Raikou can do up to 86% to Doublade with a timid choice-specs hit, and can easily 2hko unboosted using the calm mind set. On top of that, Doublade's most common counter is Gligar, who is seen all over the tier as the best defogger. Doublade has a lot of potential, but has trouble flourishing in this meta. Feel free to post again with more elaboration, or if more people support the Doublade rise, I'll take a look at it.
     
  15. Proof

    Proof Well-Known Member

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    Empoleon, Heracross, Houndoom, and Roserade have been added to the list as "unranked".

    Also, Aerodactyl, Doublade, Entei, Machamp, Porygon2, and Snorlax have been removed from the list (all moved up because Volcarona was broken lol).

    I haven't tested much yet, and I have to discuss before I make any changes, but I'd think Houndoom and Heracross would be in S or S- range, and Empoleon and Roserade would probably be somewhere in the A range.

    Feel free to discuss. Rip lord machamp.
     
  16. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    More like RIP Aero ;-; I literally used that on 95% of my teams. Hera is a chill replacement I suppose. I can definitely see Hera in S rank.
     
  17. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Yeah, Hera for obvious S+.

    MegaHoundoom for S- or A+.

    Add Typh to like C

    Imo wait for Hera's ban for the rest of the drops since Hera is extremely centralizing.

    I do think that without Snorlax, a bunch of Special attackers should probably get a ranking boost. Specifically, Kingdra, Torn-I, Goodra, Moltres, and Starmie.
     
  18. Kid Flash

    Kid Flash Fastest Boy Alive

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    Suggesting Empoleon for B+ to Low A range.
    Best Check to Kingdra in this tier
    Steath Rocker/Defogger
    Goes well with Gligar
    Addition of Rain helps Empoleon's Glaring Neutrality to fire
    Can sweep
     
  19. Santuga

    Santuga Member

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    Empoleon for A, lots of utility moves and amazing defensive typing while having offensive pressure, best answer to kingdra for every set possible (though to beat DD variants it needs roar), hits like a truck with specs, and has amazing synergy with lots of mons right now, great drop overall

    Roserade for A-, LO set is devastating but easily worn down, spikes and sleep powder being legal is amazing, but its still beat by escavalier and anything faster with a physical move. Haven't tried a defensive spikes set with rest, but should be decent in defensive teams

    Heracross for S (lol)

    Mega Houndoom for A+ or S-, i've used it extensively and it puts tons of pressure on the opponent but it honestly hasn't been doing as much work as i thought it would, probably because of the presense of Empoleon and Aromatisse on like 7/9 teams, probably A+ until Heracross catches a ban real quick and imo the next mon to be suspected

    Tornadus-I should rise to A- or A, it hits insanely hard and has lots of viable sets, from rain dance to tailwind LO being all special or mixed and the acrobatics set

    Gligar for A for obvious reasons i think

    Kingdra for A-, nothing is safe around this monster unless your name is registeel. Seriously, amazing atm

    Moltres is a menace and should be banned, that's all. (B+ probably)

    I don't know if it is worth rating Granbull higher anticipating a Heracross ban, but it's a full stop to the bug and it can spread status with Twave, hit decently hard with Play Rough and even lure stuff with EQ and Fire Punch, Heal Bell for bulkier teams. Decent option, probably B right now

    -------------

    Starmie, Meloetta and Celebi should probably drop a bit since Heracross is so dominant, although all 3 are great mons
     
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  20. GoodNaturedHax

    GoodNaturedHax New Member

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    I believe Chesnaught is still ranked, didn't it go from NU to UU?
     
  21. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    Fixed this.

    Also suggesting moving Zoroark up from C to somethin' like B/B+, it's virtually impossible to wall due to its big coverage, its occasionally worming its way into a free turn from its ability and it packs STAB sucker Punch. I really don't think Zoroark is something to sleep on, especially to the degree of C rank.
     
  22. Proof

    Proof Well-Known Member

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    Mega Houndoom (Unranked to S-)
    Empoleon (Unranked to A)
    Roserade (Unranked to A)
    Gligar (A- to A)
    Houndoom (Unranked to C+)
    Heracross (Unranked to not in the tier)
     
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  23. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    Proposing to move Dugtrio from D to B-

    CB Dugtrio on a voltturn team really helps you eliminate threats or even lets you revenge kill. Things that can be trapped and killed: Nidoqueen, Mega Ampharos, Raikou, Roserade, Empoleon, Registeel, Mega Houndoom, Tentacruel, Cobalion, Klefki, etc. Getting rid of these mons opens up room for something else to sweep. Dugtrio itself won't be sweeping and isn't all that strong, but stab EQ is pretty nice and is more than enough to kill these mons. Say you have specs Tornadus, wouldn't it be just amazing if you had some move that let you scout what they did and then switch you out. Oh, and if you had a pokemon that could trap said counter as well. Things like Mega Amph, AV Raikou, Registeel, and Empoleon can all be lured out, uturned on, and trapped by Duggy.

    Even if people disagree with it moving up to B- it definitely doesn't deserve to be a D rank mon, not with the amount of support it provides.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
  24. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Braviary needs to be B+ minimum. It's so good in the current meta and the sub BU set wins matches by itself (ask anyone who has seen my matches in the past two days).
     
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  25. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Braviary is a lord. Also Hitmonchan isn't ranked at all, B or B- might not be a bad place for it.
     
  26. Proof

    Proof Well-Known Member

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    @Hikari I did see your games, and I agree braviary is very potent in this meta. I'm easily up for moving it up to B, but I'll have to discuss first before changing to B+ or anything. @ZoroDark Hitmonchan is mostly outclassed by Hitmonlee. Hitmonlee does everything hitmonchan does, but better with knock off. Chan is slow, has the same piss physical bulk, and even its punching coverage can't make up for a lack of knock off. I'd look into moving it anywhere from C- to D-rank, but no higher.
     
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  27. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Ya C- is probably ok
     
  28. OUAzumarill

    OUAzumarill Active Member

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    I'd argue for a ranking of Gothorita.

    Even with the popularity of Knock off, its RestCM and Specs sets can trap and kill off key walls (or even some offensive pokemon, especially choiced users) and proceed to either switch out so it can do it later, become fodder, or (in the case of the RestCM set) kill off another pokemon and/or possibly sweep. After it kills off your least favorite defensive pokemon, you can proceed to have Krookodile or Hitmonlee or MegaDoom or whatever sweep with relative ease.

    I haven't used much of the Specs set as I personally believe it to be inferior, but I've used its RestCM set to some great effect. It looks something like:

    Gothorita @ Eviolite
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EV: 248 HP, 252 Def, 8 SpA (you can add it to speed or Special Def if you want)
    Psyshock
    Calm Mind
    Rest
    Shadow Ball/Signal Beam/Thunderbolt/Hidden Power (?)/Whatever

    It's pretty simple to use. Send it in on something that can't kill it or phaze it, get up to +6/+6, rest whenever you're about to die or whenever else you feel like doing it, take down your opponent, then either sac it, switch it out, or try to get more kills with it. The final move should reflect what pokemon you want it to kill most. I have a nasty plot MegaDoom that hates bulky waters, so I give it Thunderbolt. Signal Beam, Shadow Ball, and HP Fire/Fighting are the other common moves I see on it, but really whatever works for your team is what you should do.

    I'd say it should make the B rank, maybe A- if you're being generous or C+ if you're being harsh.

    Edit: I forgot to mention that this thing is amazing on any team that hates rain, as it can easily dismantle Politoed (and it usually takes more than 8 turns to do so). The one change I would make to the set is to give it max speed instead of defense to ensure that you don't get screwed over by Encore shenanigans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  29. [OG] Swanna Lady

    [OG] Swanna Lady Y.......Yo......You.....YOU'RE FAT!

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    [OG] Swanna lady
    Azelf A+ ---> S-
    Raikou S- ---> A
    Escavalier A+ ---> S-
    Meloetta A+ ---> A-

    Azelf is a great mixed sweeper with a great movepool and with a sash it can set up rocks too. I can't really find the flaw in it other than it being a bit frail but it usually takes everything out before they can attack.

    Raikou doesn't really work that well. The movepool it has is mediocre at best with only 2 real sets it can run. It might have quite a good max with Sp.attack and speed but without the nature that stat only reaches 329, which is extremely lousy this gen. It still can hit hard and has good coverage so I would put it in A.

    Escavalier has a great niche in the metagame and sometimes I don't know why people don't use it more often. It has extreme attack and good defense and the most commonly run set is the AssVest set where the special defense can reach 472 without any investment. It's a tank with huge possibilities so I would put it in S- (Yeah I'm not putting anything in S)

    Meloetta has crippling speed so it can't really work as a sweeper but it can't really be a tank either as it's physical defense is mediocre. While it may have a good movepool and great Special stats it can't really take physical hits and can't outspeed most offensive threats in the metagame. I would put it in A- because it still has great special stats but has major flaws.
     
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