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[Grammar] Nidoking

Discussion in 'UU Analyses' started by somerandomguy, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy Active Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    HP: 81
    Attack: 102
    Defense: 77
    Sp.Atk: 85
    Sp.Def: 75
    Speed: 85

    =General=
    Nidoking's stats imply physical attacker, especially with its recent Attack buff, but because of a lack of decent physical moves which work with Sheer Force, it almost always runs a special attacking or mostly special set. This is no loss – its colossal movepool enables it to score super-effective coverage on most types, and is one of UU's greatest threats because of this. On the defensive side, it's resistant to Stealth Rock and U-Turn and immune to poisoning and Thunder Wave. Its bulk is average.

    =Life Orb Attacker=
    Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earth Power
    - Sludge Wave
    - Ice beam
    - Focus Blast / Substitute / Megahorn

    Earth Power, Sludge Wave, and Ice Beam all get a great boost thanks to Sheer Force stacked with Life Orb. The STAB moves are there for obvious reasons, while Ice Beam can provide super-effective coverage on Dragon-types such as Zygarde or Hydreigon. Finally, you have some options in the fourth slot. Focus Blast hits many bulky Pokemon which are weak to Fighting-type moves, such as Snorlax, Porygon2, and Umbreon; while Substitute can provide utility against Pokemon forced to switch out, such as Florges. Megahorn can be used to nail specially defensive Umbreon, Latias, and Mew - but if you run this, use a Naive nature. The EVs are standard, and the speed-boosting nature is useful to outside positive base 80s, Adamant Lucario, and tie with Modest Hydreigon.

    =Choice Scarf=
    Nidoking (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Sludge Wave
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt / Fire Blast

    This set isn't used as much, and surprise value can be reached here. Nidoking reaches 442 Speed with a Choice Scarf, which outspeeds base 150s such as Mega Alakazam; that said, keep in mind that this set is not as powerful and it is still one of the slowest Choice Scarf users in UU. Here your moves are the same for the same reasons while once again the final move is a toss-up; Thunderbolt provides coverage but will fail to 2HKO Suicune while Fire Blast can hit threatening Bug-types such as Forretress, Escavalier, and Heracross.

    =Other Options=
    Nidoking has a truly wide physical movepool, with Hone Claws, Poison Jab, Earthquake, the elemental punches, Sucker Punch, and Superpower - you could have some success with these moves, but keep in mind few are boosted by Sheer Force. The Life Orb set can run Fire Blast to toast Bug-types. Thunderbolt can be used on the same set to assault Water-types. Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes are certainly viable, but Nidoqueen is more bulky and thus better suited for the role. The aforementioned Sucker Punch is Nidoking's only form of priority, so it could fit on the Life Orb set. Taunt can put a stop to defensive Pokemon such as Mew, while Shadow Ball can nail Psychic-types eager to punish Nidoking.
    =Checks & Counters=
    The closest thing to a full counter is Cresselia, as Nidoking's moves will bounce off like paperwads. Specially defensive Pokemon such as Snorlax, Porygon2, Umbreon, specially defensive Mew, and Milotic can generally switch in; there may be a coverage move that hits them for super-effective damage, though. Crawdaunt with Life Orb or Choice Band can OHKO with Aqua Jet. Finally, any faster Pokemon with a powerful or super-effective attack is a safe check.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  2. Daybreak

    Daybreak can't touch this

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    Honestly I am not that big of a fan of the mixed set you suggested. Even if megahorn hit's mew latias and umbreon, latias is still 2hko'd only by megahorn, and if mew is physically defensive, then sludge wave does more anyways. Literally the only thing you will hitt are specially defensive mew (rare) and umbreon which you have focus blast to cover umbreon either way. Not to mention nidoking relies on it's resistences to come in safely and with a mixed set you effectively make it more difficult to come in. Also Latias outspeeds nidoking so u need to hit it on the switch with megahorn so unless you can back up the mixed set better, I see no reason why it should be there.

    For special attacker The last slot has way too many slashes next to it so what I would do is slash thunderbolt next to sludge wave and have the last 3 shift over to the left. With the special attacker set you will not be able to cover everything at once so what the slashes do is try and cover as much as possible and achieve as many 2hko's as you can at least. w/out thunderbolt you are only "walled" by bulky waters and w/ out sludge wave you are walled by fairies and rotom-h.

    For scarf set I would slash Fire blast behind Thunderbolt since Thunderbolt doesn't even get some 2hko's on the water types like suicune and somtimes you need to pick up ko's on escaviler and forretress. Also the set comments are lacking but you said that you would change that in pm so not gonna go much to that.

    In oo mention shadow ball for ghost/psychic types, but barely outdamages earth power/sludge wave when super effective.

    C&C first thing you should mention is that nidoking's counters and checks definitely depend on what type of coverage move it has.
    Even if nidoking runs megahorn you mentioned cresselia is only 3hko'd by it so that should be the #1 counter. Snorlax and umbreon and mew come behind it.
    Mention bulky waters like suicune and milotic if nidoking doesn't run tbolt as well.
     
  3. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    When you're talking about positive speed natures on Nidoking, mention that you need it to outspeed +Spe natured 80s (it's Gardevoir and Chandelure) as well as Adamant Lucario. You also speed tie with Modest Hydreigon (kinda moot but it's interesting) as well as Heracross.

    I'd agree that Megahorn is really only useful for Umbreon, mostly because it's a 50-50 hitting two Focus Blasts in a row, but I still think Focus Blast is more useful if you're looking for a move to beat special walls cause it also beats Snorlax and Porygon2. It's fine in other options as the most significant physical move imo.

    Agree with Daybreak on slashing Thunderbolt with Sludge Wave (the former obviously better as it's an easily spammable move + Sludge can still possibly 2HKO Suicune with rocks down, so Tbolt is really only for Milotic I think). Focus Blast is probably the more optimal first slash on the last slot however, because Forretress is 2HKOed by Earth Power and has Sturdy to avoid the OHKO anyways so you're only hitting Escavalier with it; on the other hand Focus Blast hits Snorlax/Umbreon/Porygon2.

    Latias as a check because she can switch in on Earth Power/Thunderbolt/Fire Blast/Focus Blast (2HKOed by Ice Beam or Sludge Wave but it's the best check you'll find on offense). Suicune is not a counter because Sludge threatens it as I mentioned above. AV Goodra might be notable as it's only 3HKOed by Ice Beam (switch in on Sludge + Ice Beam + Ice Beam not even guaranteed KO unless rocks).

    Mega Gardevoir goes under "things faster than Nidoking" so I don't think it warrants a specific mention.
     
    Finchinator likes this.
  4. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy Active Member

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    After discussing Megahorn / Thunderbolt and Fire Blast with Windblown and Daybreak, I've slashed Megahorn and Naive to the other set and called it Life Orb Attacker. Fire Blast, Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball were added in Other Options. Milotic added in Checks and Counters.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
  5. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    k QC 1/3, you should get more opinions on Shadow Ball cause I'm not entirely sure of its value since Sludge hits phys def Mew but go ask the other QC about it
     
  6. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    You can arguable throw a couple things like Slowking into the second point in the C&C, but it's pretty rare so mentioning it isn't needed.

    Great job, QC 2/3
     
  7. Daybreak

    Daybreak can't touch this

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    3/3 nice job
     
  8. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    I'm still not seeing the benefit on Megahorn, Focus Blast 2hkos Umbreon and lets you take on Lax, Latias is rare and you need to predict it to switch in to hit it with Megahorn since it outspeeds, and is a weak move in general on Nido, and Sp Def Mew is extrememly rare since Phys Def is far more useful to take on things like Mega Medi and Terakkion.

    It can get a mention in OO, but defo not worth a slash imo.

    Also tidy up OO since you mention stuff you've mentioned elsewhere.

    C+C
    Sp Def Vaporeon can tank even LO T-Bolts and OHKO back with Scald after Spikes
    Sp Def P2, can lose to 2 Focus Blasts after Rocks tho
    Sp Def Zong if no Fire Blast
    Could list some AV mons such as Meloetta, Slowking, Goodra etc.

    good job overall
     
    Daybreak likes this.
  9. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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