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[Skeleton] Manaphy

Discussion in 'OU Analyses' started by satyaki roy, Jun 10, 2014.

  1. satyaki roy

    satyaki roy Eevee Breeder

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    satyaki roy[NOVA]
    250px-490Manaphy.png
    General:
    • Since rain no longer lasted permanently; manaphy ceased to be uber with the introduction of X and Y
    • Initially put in the UU tier; but proved to be too strong ; hence promoted to OU.
    • Yet usage of it is not so common; as there are other good water types to chose in the OU tier.
    • Good water typing; with only 2
    weaknesses electric and grass.
    • Good move pool with attacks to counter its weakness grass.
    • Is a threatening sweeper with enough natural bulk to evade OHKOs from common offensive Pokémon; and consistently survive damage from stall teams/Pokémon; allowing it to set up.
    •Lacks off the bat power even after +3 setup; but has potential to sweep.

    Tail Glow set:
    [email protected]/wacan Berry
    Trait:Hydration
    Evs: 252 sp at/252 spd/4 HP
    Timid/Modest nature(+speed -attack/+ sp atk -attack)
    -Tail Glow
    -Energy ball
    -Surf/Scald/Hydro Pump
    -Ice beam
    Manaphy is a great late game sweeper; with decent bulk to survive OHKOs. Preferably set up against Pokémon which can't deal much damage to it; one tail glow is enough to sweep.
    •All 3 water attacks are usable; scald is the weakest but has additional bonus of burn; crippling physical attackers.Hydro pump is the strongest move but inaccurate. Surf is also usable; but scald is most preferred
    •Energy ball takes care of the many water types used in OU tier
    •In the last spot; ice beam is most preferred as it takes care of grass and dragon types.
    •Though with manaphy's great defences; leftovers is handy but due to fast electric types in OU; wacan berry helps it survive and revenge kill.

    Bulky rain set:
    [email protected]
    Trait:Hydration
    EVs:252 defence/252 sp defence/4 speed.
    Bold nature(+defence -attack)
    -Rain dance
    -Scald
    -Calm mind
    -Rest
    This set can be used effectively to stall your opposition; though with rain teams being obsolete in gen 6; with moves like taunt being common and with other weather Pokémon in this tier; it is not much preferred.
    Other options:
    Manaphy; having a variety of moves; can also surprise some of its counters; like mega venusaur; with psychic; or assault vest users; like conkeldurr and kyurem-b; with dazzling gleam; though the move set mentioned above is most preferred.
    Synergy:
    At 100 base speed; manaphy is moderately fast. But to help it out speed others Galvantula with focus sash sticky web in front slows all but flying types. Also some great special walls like blissey and venusaur can be threats. Ferrothorn is another threat to it. These can be countered suitably by fire and fighting physical attackers; though I prefer a mew/azelf with psyshock flamethrower and nasty plot to counter. A mamoswine/weavile with ice shard can take care of scarfed dragons if manaphy is low on HP.
    Checks and counters:
    • Mega Venusaur: with thick fat it resists ice beam. Also with giga drain it recovers well hence best option is to switch. Psychic is an option but at the cost of better attacks like energy ball and ice beam.
    • Ferrothorn: another grass type with is not much affected by ice; but still can be 2hkod if set up. But if it runs power whip Manaphy finds it hard to survive.
    • Thundurus: one of the most common OU pokemon; the major reason to have wacan berry. With wacan it loses only half of its HP even if thundurus has life orb; giving manaphy a chance to revenge kill it.
    •Mega Charizard Y: One major reason for manaphy to be timid. As flying types unaffected by web; even a timid manaphy faces speed tie from timid charizard. Though sunlight won't hinder manaphy to OHKO charizard if set up; it has a fifty fifty chance to survive.
    •Rotom W scarfed: energy ball hits it hard; but with levitate scarf and volt switch it always escapes damage and in the process kills it.
    •Azumarill(sap sipper): unlikely with people using huge power more; but only Pokémon to resist all 3 of manaphy's attack.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
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  2. trc

    trc Active Member

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    Ok so first of all this needs to be formatted correctly, check others for examples.

    Am on phone so this will be brief:
    Tail Glow / Surf / Ice Beam / Psychic or Energy Ball
    Lefties / Wacan
    Timid

    Modest in Set Comments

    Add a Calm Mind set

    I'll sort through overview and the rest later. However, this seems to indicate a lack of knowledge of the meta so please confess if you haven't used it much in a high level envirnoment, it'll make things so much easier.
     
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  3. satyaki roy

    satyaki roy Eevee Breeder

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    Excuse me. I can assure u I have used this set since atleast 6 months.Calm mind won't work neither psychic. Dazzling gleam works well on dragons who resist others so it has been suggested. I am a good OU player I have a lot of experience though there are always players better than me
     
  4. trc

    trc Active Member

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    Calm Mind and Psychic are bad but the redundant Dazzling Gleam and terrible Blizzard aren't? Not to mention your overview mentions nothing about its stats lack of specialisation towards dealing with offense or stall, even after a Tail Glow.

    This set shows enough, but I'll leave the other QC members to weigh in on it even though I have no idea what they'll say.
     
  5. satyaki roy

    satyaki roy Eevee Breeder

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    I have made changes
     
  6. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Finchinator / Finch
    The most optimal set:
    Manaphy @ Leftovers / Wacan Berry
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Tail Glow
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic / Energy Ball

    You only discussed the moves and items, you should add:
    - Is a threatening sweeper with enough natural bulk to evade OHKOs from common offensive Pokemon and consistently survive attacks from stallier teams/Pokemon, letting it set-up.
    - Lacks off-the-bat power and even with a +3 boost, cannot power through everything, but has potential to sweep .
    - Average speed isn't helping it too much, but can be beneficial sometimes.
    - Psychic hits Mega-Venusaur and others for surprising damage.

    ^Just did this briefly, word it how you'd like but the general topics still need to be added to the set comments.

    Another set that looks like:
    Manaphy @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd (???, not sure here)
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Rain Dance
    - Scald

    Should be added, but I lack the time to elaborate or comment on anything else, so expect more later!
     
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  7. MewtwoHidden

    MewtwoHidden My Hax Makes Me Famous

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    MewtwoHidden
    • Initially put in the UU tier; but proved to be too strong ; hence promoted to UU. < UU should say OU
    • Yet usage of it is not so common; even after its balanced stats; as none are exceptionally high; and other water types to chose in the OU tier. < I think this could be worded better...
    • Good water typing; with only 2
    weaknesses electric and grass. < only needs a single line, but good.
    • Only one potentially threatening
    set with Tail glow < This isn't exactly right, so I'd like this removed.
    • Once tail glow used; it is one of the major threats in OU. < Fair enough I suppose
    • Cute tiny Pokémon but sweeps. < Useless fluff, but it doesn't hurt so its fine.

    tail glow sweeper set should look like this

    Manaphy @ Leftovers / Wacan Berry
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Tail Glow
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic / Energy Ball

    with some mention of a bulkier set in set comments perhaps?

    Finch's set needs to be added.
     
  8. satyaki roy

    satyaki roy Eevee Breeder

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    OK thanks for the suggestion; I will add the changes. I am new here so I'm please that you guided me I need it
     
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  9. Rohail

    Rohail Active Member

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    QC Time :]

    General
    Mention how it has relatively low Speed that hinder its sweeps. Also mention that it has decent bulk, which helps it set up.

    Tail Glow
    Rename the set to Tail Glow imo. Also, please change the set to this:

    - Tail Glow
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Energy Ball / Psychic

    This has been explained already so I won't expand on it. I agree with Finch in that you need to expand on Manaphy's role a bit; it's a late-game sweeper that uses its bulk to set up and sweep. Wacan Berry helps it get past Pokemon like Thundurus and Mega Manectric that would otherwise threaten to OHKO it, etc. You need to expand on how to actually use Manaphy and what it does in the metagame or else we can't approve this.

    Rain Dance
    Change the set name to Rain Dance imo. Alright, so right off the bat, the EVs here are very inefficient; both defenses shouldn't be maximized, only Defense should be max because CM will boost Manaphy's Special Defense. I also personally like to have enough Speed EVs to outspeed Adamant Mega Tyranitar. Therefore, change the EV spread to: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe. Again, your set descriptions are bare bones; please expand on how this set isn't meant to be thrown onto any team and needs patience to actually sweep. Explain how it can trouble stall, what it accomplishes for offense, what it has over competition like CroCune. If you need help with this, then just ask. However, if you feel that you don't have enough experience with this set, then please let QC know so we can get someone else to write it up.

    Synergy
    This section comes before Other Options. Mention Shuckle as a Sticky Web setter alongside Galvantula, as it's arguably better imo.
    These are very random partners, as Mew and Azelf (specially offensive variants of the former) are so irrelevant while Manaphy really doesn't need Ice Shard support. Dealing with Ferrothorn is a good thing, but mention more relevant Pokemon that do so, like Terrakion, or Hidden Power Fire Mega Venusaur. You can also mention that Manaphy needs to have partners that can take on what its coverage can't beat; for example, if Manaphy runs Psychic, it needs a way to deal with Rotom-W and other bulky Water-types. Pokemon like the Lati twins and Mega Venusaur can accomplish that. Similarly, if Manaphy runs Energy Ball, it needs a way to beat Mega Venusaur. You can mention Pokemon that lure in and beat Mega Venusaur, like Psychic Thundurus and Specs HP Flying Keldeo. You should also mention Pokemon that can actually switch into Mega Venusaur, like bulky Talonflame and the lati twins.

    Other Options
    Remove Psychic because it is now a main slash. Mention Heart Swap to steal boosts off of boosted Pokemon that can't OHKO it, like Mega Gyarados and Mega Charizard-X. Mention Rindo Berry to get past super effective Grass-type attacks like Ferrothorn's Power Whip and Mega Venusaur's Giga Drain, as you actually can 2HKO offensive variants of the latter after SR while they struggle to do much back. Finally, mention a Choice Scarf or physical set, as Manaphy has a decent Speed tier as well as cool physical moves like U-turn and Knock Off, respectively.

    Checks and Counters
    Move Ferrothorn above Mega Venusaur please. Also mention how many teams run faster Pokemon that are unaffected by Sticky Web that can take Manaphy out, like Landorus, Thundurus, and the Lati twins. Mention how other specially defensive Pokemon like Chansey and even Mega Scizor if Manaphy's weakened enough can take it on, but they all lose to the Rain Dance set. Finally, mention how Taunt completely shuts down the Rain Dance set.

    Clean this all up and I'll give this another look @satyaki roy :)
     
  10. satyaki roy

    satyaki roy Eevee Breeder

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    OK I'll change asap
     
  11. satyaki roy

    satyaki roy Eevee Breeder

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    Can someone approve?
     
  12. trc

    trc Active Member

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    Put Rain Dance on the Tail Glow set, slash it before Psychic and Energy Ball, and slash Rest before Ice Beam. Emphasise that Rain Dance means it basically 6-0s stall as it can setup to +6 and keep recovering without being taken down.
     
  13. Kushalos

    Kushalos ASSCHEEKS CHILLIN IN THE AVY

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    Manaphy doesn't learn Hydro Pump,,,
     
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  14. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    For the Rain Dance set, use these EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd with a Bold Nature. Since you're boosting Special Attack and Special Defence they don't need investment. 16 Spd lets you outrun 252 Spd Adamant Breloom, with the rest in HP and Defence to improve its physical defence. Also for Tail Glow, I think Life Orb's the best item myself as it gives a notable power increase.
     
  15. satyaki roy

    satyaki roy Eevee Breeder

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  16. trc

    trc Active Member

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    No you need Leftovers or Wacan for Tail Glow, whether it's the standard TG + RD or the worse TG + 3 attacks.
     
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