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Arceus-Rock

Discussion in 'Outdated Ubers Analyses' started by Dr. Doom, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    [​IMG]

    General

    With Ho-Oh gaining popularity and the buff to Will-O-Wisp, Rock Arceus has no trouble carving out a niche for itself. As offensive typing goes, Rock is one of the best around, hitting 4 types for super effective damage with only 3 resisting and nothing being immune. The lack of immunities increases its support capabilities, meaning it has space for 2 utility moves since it doesn't need to run 2 attacks.

    However, Rock Arceus has its faults. Groudon and Kyogre are commonly used and very dangerous to it. Zekrom's popularity has also given rise to a number of bulky Ground types, which makes Rock Arceus's job even harder. And while Rock is one of the best offensive types, defensively it's one of the worst, with a bad 5 weaknesses to several common types like Water and Ground.

    Support

    Arceus @ Stone Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    Timid Nature (+Spd -Atk)
    EV: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Will-O-Wisp
    Judgment
    Recover
    Defog / Roar / Perish Song

    This set is designed to aid your team by spreading burns around. Will-O-Wisp is the chosen status move, since (apart from Blaziken) Fire types pretty much never switch into it. Judgment prevents Arceus from being Taunt bait, and still does decent damage to anything not resisting it thanks to Arceus's great 120 base Special Attack. Recover is a staple on any support Arceus to keep it alive as long as possible.

    Because nothing is immune to Judgment, Rock Arceus has space for another utility move. Defog can clear the field for your teammates, while Roar and Perish Song prevent Arcues being set up fodder. 8 Special Attack EVs guarantee a OHKO on 248/0 Ho-Oh with Judgment. Max Speed allows it to tie with other Arceus formes. The rest is invested in HP for extra bulk.

    Other Options

    If you have a plan for the bulky Ground types like Groudon and Landorus-T, Rock Arceus can run its old offensive sets. A Swords Dance set with Stone Edge and Earthquake is viable, and while relying on a 80% accurate STAB is annoying, it is one of the few physical attackers that can beat Skarmory. You can also run various Calm Mind sets, either MonoAttacker to break stall or an all out special sweeper set, although it faces competition for a defensive one by Fairy Arceus who has better defensive typing and Electric Arceus for an offensive one, who has 4 less weaknesses and BoltBeam. Stealth Rock can be used if nothing else on your team can set it up, but typically phazing and Defogging are more important. If you'd prefer to have more bulk, you could drop the Speed down to 96 to outrun max speed Palkia, and then dump the other 160 EVs into either defense stat. Thunder Wave and Toxic both have their merits, but Will-O-Wisp is typically better on Rock Arceus: Ground and Steel types will switch into it while Fire types won't.

    Checks and Counters

    Mega Mewtwo X outruns and OHKOs with Low Kick, and even when burnt can still 2HKO. Blaziken is immune to burns and can shatter Rock Arceus with a STAB High Jump Kick. Arceus formes with a super effective STAB against Rock can normally win if running boosting sets. Special Attacking Steel, Fighting and Ground can set up in its face while taking minuscule damage from Judgment and crushing it with their own Judgments. Kyogre can drown Rock Arceus with its Rain boosted Super Effective STABs while taking little from Judgment due to its 140 base Special Defence. Groudon and Excadrill can 2HKO with their respective Earthquakes, but both will hate a burn. Blissey, Ferrothorn and defensive Dialga can cripple twith Toxic while taking minuscule damage from Judgment and not minding a burn - however, Ferrothorn will eventually fall due to its lack of reliable recovery.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  2. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    Move SD down to OO. The main reason you use Rockeus is to check Ho-oh and getting burnt completely neuters SD. You also have to compete with SD Groundceus, which does a much better job at sweeping since he doesn't have to rely on an 80% accurate STAB and you have the same coverage anyway.

    Offensive CM is also a thing of the past, I don't even think it needs an OO mention.
     
  3. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    But Swords Dance RockCeus is able to beat Lugia and Skarmory much more easily than GroundCeus. Offensive Calm Mind is also a superior sweeper thanks to having better coverage options. Usage =/= viability.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  4. Monsters of Men

    Monsters of Men Just Keep Fightin' Till You Fall

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    I'm with puregenius here. Most of these sets were barely viable because they were outclassed in Black and White. Now, they're just completely useless. I don't mean to sound rude when i say this, just simply stating: the generation shift has changed a lot and i think you need to analyse some of the sets and whether they actually have any CURRENT application before you post them as possible sets.

    SD Rockceus sounds cool i admit. But it's complete and utter shit. I don't think it has any use, even as like a niche attacker honestly. Other things do its job just so much better. It barely even worked in BW2 because of Groudon and fast water types being everywhere. It's situation is the same, maybe even worse now.
    1. Ground types like Gliscor, Groundceus, Groudon and Lando-T are ridiculously prevalent due to Zekrom being one of the best and most popular scarfers. Every good team counters some form of counter/check to Zek and they happen to laugh at Rockceus. And if not that, waterceus and grassceus have gained popularity as Ogre counter and they both kick Rockceus' ass.
    2. Speaking of Ogre. SCARF OGRE. and the other faster pokemon like MMX. Also you're weak to both fighting and steel priority, the latter which is incredibly prevalent due to Xerneas.
    3. It's pissweak compared to things like Groundceus, whose Ground stab is just that much better and more effective. Rock is a nice Coverage type, not a good stand alone offensive in terms of SD. Especially when Rockceus has so many weaknesses that are way to easy to exploit. Like even switching it in and trying to set up is never going to work. Getting burnt renders you useless and you sure as hell can't switch in against Ogre or anything like that.

    CM Rockceus, both variants, suffer many of the same setbacks. They don't gain enough power quickly enough and are ridiculously easily killed due to the prevalence of Grass, Ground, Steel and Water which are everywhere. Really, Rockceus' niche is as a Ho-oh counter/support. It doesn't really have much of a role outside of that. Trying to sweep with it means you'll be playing offensively for the most part, and Rockceus is more dead weight with those sets than anything.
     
  5. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Yeah support is the only set Rockceus should run. CM and SD Arceus are plain bad, you're always better off running another type for that job. Put those both in OO and remove Work Up which is just a big fat never.

    But yeah put SD and CM in OO and remove the mentions of those sets in C&C for now.
     
  6. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I'll drop Swords Dance to OO, but I've tested both Calm Mind sets and they work too well to be dropped to OO. Once Scarf Kyogre and Mega Mewtwo-X are down, the offensive Calm Mind set is a great special sweeper - with the Judgment/Focus Blast/Grass Knot coverage there's not much that can stop it. The MonoAttacker set can blow through most stall teams, and all they can do is phaze it out.
     
  7. Dreams

    Dreams Active Member

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    Calm Mind Rockceus is utter garbage. Arc-Electric has BoltBeam which is far better than any coverage Rock Arceus can come up with.
    One of those lame sets doesn't even have recovery.(Grass Knot is necessary on that gimmick set if you actually want to succeed with it). You'll die before you get enough Calm Minds to gain a single KO.
    Most Mono CM Refresh Arc Formes are dedicated stallbreakers ; Were you trying to prove something by specifically mentioning the Rock Forme?
    Mono Poison and Mono Steel and Mono Fairy outclass it by miles.
    The only reason you should be using the Rock forme is for the physically defensive defog support set to check Ho-Oh , Non-Lum Ekiller and Mega Kangaskhan among other things.

    Just incase you forgot to read tape's post , I've quoted the relevant part.
    Atleast the SD set dropped to OO (yay)
    Drop both CM sets to OO , remove their mentions in C&C and start working on useful stuff like grammar or the eventual write-up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  8. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    OK, well if people feel that strongly about it I'll drop the Calm Mind sets to OO. I listed them because I tried them out and they worked very well - being able to blast through Ho-Oh is a good USP, but yeah you're right Electric Arceus can do that too, but has 4 less weaknesses.

    Edit: Wow removing the offensive sets has made it so easy to counter.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  9. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Yeah this is better :)

    Fightceus shouldn't get such a big mention in C&C. It's one of the worst Arceus forms in this gen; I'd rather mention Grassceus or Waterceus who don't care much about Judgment/WoW and scare it out with their STAB moves. Kyogre as a whole is bad for Rockceus to face so you could broaden that bullet. I think you could maybe put "ground types" as a bullet on its own. Most of them hate burns though so yeah. Mention how Ferrothorn despises being turned, Dialga doesn't like it much either. Mention how Dialga can either destroy Rockceus with Flash Cannon or throw Toxic at it.
     
  10. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    OK changed. The C&C weren't listed in any particular order, other than what order they occurred to me.
     
  11. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I've made the suggested changes - would the QC people mind taking a look please? Thanks.
     
  12. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    ok looks decent QC Approved
     
  13. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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  14. Ramiel

    Ramiel On our backs. In our hearts.

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Gurren Lagann
    Not seeing anything wrong now with the Offensive sets gone.
    QC Approved 3/3
     
  15. monferno

    monferno blazing

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    Personally I feel Calm Mind / Judgment / Recover / Refresh Arceus-Rock is not too bad, I don't know if it deserves its own set but some of you are really underestimating it here imo. Refresh makes it a way more reliable Ho-Oh counter, and with Calm Mind + Refresh it also beats a lot of stall teams, especially those with Landorus-T as their Ground-type. Obviously, some other types (eg Dark, Fairy, not Poison imo like someone mentioned) are better at just stallbreaking but Arceus-Rock has the added benefit of also being a reliable Ho-Oh and Yveltal switchin if your team has troubles with those.

    Offensive Calm Mind is pretty bad though.
     
  16. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    OK written in full.

    @Tomahawk9 I did originally have the MonoAttacker set listed, but I was told to take it down.
     
  17. monferno

    monferno blazing

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    Yeah I know, I was replying to those people. If they don't want it as its own set, it should least have a big mention in AC or OO since it's an actually good set unlike offensive CM and SD, the difference should be notable enough.
     
  18. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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  19. Raducan

    Raducan Well-Known Member

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    Overview

    -With Ho-Oh gaining popularity and the accuracy [should add what buff it got] buff to Will-O-Wisp, Rock Arceus has no trouble carving out a niche for itself.
    -which makes Arceus-Rock's job even harder [change Rock Arceus to Arceus-Rock for all the times it's mentioned].

    Support

    -Will-O-Wisp is the chosen status move, since (apart from Blaziken) Fire types pretty much never switch into Arceus-Rock, apart from Blaziken [change "it" to "Arceus-Rock", otherwise, it looks like you're saying fire types never switch into Will-O-Wisp].
    -Judgment prevents Arceus from being Taunt bait, [unneeded comma] and still
    -while Roar and Perish Song prevent Arceus being set up fodder

    Other Options

    -A Swords Dance set with Stone Edge and Earthquake is viable. and While relying on a 80% accurate STAB is annoying, it is one of the few physical attackers that can beat Skarmory.
    -You can also run various Calm Mind sets, either MonoAttacker to break stall or an all out special sweeper set. although However, Arceus-Rock faces competition is outclassed for Calm Mind sets for a defensive one by Arceus-Fairy, who has better defensive typing, and Arceus-Electric for an offensive one, who has 4 less weaknesses and BoltBeam coverage.
    -Stealth Rock can be used if nothing else on your team can set it up, but typically, [add comma] phazing and Defogging are more important.

    Checks and Counters

    -Mega Mewtwo X outruns and OHKOs with Low Kick. and Even when burnt, [add comma] it can still 2HKO.
    -defensive Dialga can cripple with Toxic while taking minuscule damage from Judgment and not minding a burn - however, Ferrothorn and Dialga [Dialga doesn't have reliable recovery either] will eventually fall due to their lack of reliable recovery.
     
  20. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    Reuploaded with a few changes I thought were also necessary.