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[ORAS] Inverted Battle Viability Ranking

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Windblown, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] Inverted Battle Viablity Ranking[​IMG][​IMG]

    In an effort to get interest in subforums we've been trying to put up viability rankings for the tiers, side metas included. So, here' s the viability ranking for Inverted Battle. The Pokemon used are a lot different from typical OU (you don't see Heatran and Rotom-W a lot) and the usage statistics are pretty poor indications of what actually is good in the tier, so this list will try to remedy some confusion that people have when they come to play Inverted.

    Users are encouraged to post stating where a Pokemon should be ranked, with a short explanation why. Posts like "I think X Pokemon should be in Y tier" will not be tolerated. Additionally, some things in the list have been intentionally left up for debate for you as a community to discuss, so feel free to do so!
    This is only a preliminary list as of right now, and will be continually worked on.

    Shoutout to @Epikhairz, @Veteran Padgett, @Selena Gomez, and @EljayQuiz for work on this list - if I forgot anyone let me know.

    S Rank
    S Rank is reserved for Pokemon who are extremely threatening and impact the metagame in a major way. These Pokemon can either fulfill a variety of roles or are superlative in performing one task on a team.

    [​IMG] Avalugg
    [​IMG] Breloom
    [​IMG] Celebi
    [​IMG] Chansey
    [​IMG] Dragonite
    [​IMG]Mega Medicham

    A Rank
    A Rank Pokemon generally perform very well in the tier, but have some minor flaws that prevent them from fulfilling their roles consistently. Although threatening, they usually require a bit more team support than S-Rank Pokemon.

    A+
    [​IMG] Genesect
    - it's not that great because steel typing sucks and scarf lacks power, band lacks speed outside of espeed also base 99 lol. stabs are a bit better but being weak to normal is just p shitty
    - i use physically based scarf i find that it gets all the power i need. its not like base 99 is as bad as it seems it still gets by most relevant scarfers. really just keep it away from priority, which isnt too hard since its really obvious when a mon is going to lauch into espeed or something.
    [​IMG] Keldeo
    [​IMG] Mega Manectric
    [​IMG] Porygon2
    [​IMG] Scolipede

    A
    [​IMG] Arcanine
    [​IMG]Deoxys-D
    [​IMG] Garchomp
    [​IMG] Gothitelle
    [​IMG] Landorus
    [​IMG] Latios
    [​IMG] Mamoswine
    [​IMG] Mega Alakazam
    [​IMG] Mega Gallade
    [​IMG] Mega Pinsir
    [​IMG] Mega Sceptile
    [​IMG] Mega Slowbro
    [​IMG] Porygon-Z
    [​IMG] Reuniclus
    [​IMG] Rhyperior
    [​IMG] Thundurus-I
    [​IMG] Mega Tyranitar
    [​IMG] Weavile

    A- Rank
    [​IMG] Alakazam
    [​IMG] Blissey
    [​IMG] Entei
    [​IMG] Jolteon
    [​IMG] Manaphy
    [​IMG] Mega Abomasnow
    [​IMG] Mega Beedrill
    [​IMG] Latias
    [​IMG] Staraptor
    [​IMG] Volcarona
    [​IMG] Yanmega

    B Rank
    B Rank Pokemon usually have some sort of major flaw that prevents them from being a more common presence in the tier. However, they still are able to perform their roles very well with proper team support.

    B+
    [​IMG] Cinccino
    [​IMG] Deoxys-S
    [​IMG] Greninja
    [​IMG] Hippowdon
    [​IMG] Kyurem
    [​IMG] Mega Charizard Y
    [​IMG] Mega Swampert
    [​IMG] Suicune
    [​IMG] Thundurus-T
    [​IMG] Tyranitar
    [​IMG] Zygarde

    B
    [​IMG] Ambipom
    [​IMG] Galvantula
    [​IMG] Heracross
    [​IMG] Landorus-T
    [​IMG] Mega Charizard X
    [​IMG] Mega Gardevoir
    [​IMG] Mega Glalie
    [​IMG] Mega Gyarados
    [​IMG] Mega Heracross
    [​IMG] Mega Lopunny
    [​IMG] Mega Venusaur
    [​IMG] Meloetta
    [​IMG] Regice
    [​IMG] Sawsbuck
    [​IMG] Stoutland
    [​IMG] Talonflame
    [​IMG] Terrakion
    [​IMG] Zangoose
    [​IMG] Zapdos

    B- Rank
    [​IMG] Linoone
    [​IMG] Mega Lucario
    [​IMG] Raikou
    [​IMG] Smeargle
    [​IMG] Venusaur
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet

    C Rank
    C Rank Pokemon have notable niches in the metagame, but usually require significant support. These Pokemon face competition for their roles from the higher ranked Pokemon, but can find still find use.

    C+
    [​IMG] Articuno
    [​IMG] Cloyster
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr
    [​IMG] Crawdaunt
    [​IMG] Cresselia
    [​IMG] Miltank

    C Rank
    [​IMG] Azumarill
    [​IMG] Exeggutor
    [​IMG] Exploud
    [​IMG] Gliscor
    [​IMG] Haxorus
    [​IMG] Mega Aggron
    [​IMG] Mega Metagross
    [​IMG] Mega Pidgeot
    [​IMG] Noivern
    [​IMG] Salamence
    [​IMG] Scizor
    [​IMG] Togekiss
    [​IMG] Victini

    C-
    [​IMG] Aurorus
    [​IMG] Gogoat
    [​IMG] Lucario
    [​IMG] Mega Ampharos
    [​IMG] Togekiss

    D Rank
    D Rank
    Pokemon either have an extremely small niche in the tier, or are generally outclassed by higher-ranked Pokemon in a majority of circumstances.
    D+
    [​IMG] Metagross
    [​IMG] Aegislash
    [​IMG] Gengar

    D Rank
    [​IMG] Ariados
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn
    [​IMG] Leavanny
    [​IMG] Magneton
    [​IMG] Mega Mawile
    [​IMG] Munchlax
    [​IMG] Slaking

    D- Rank
    [​IMG] Heatran
    [​IMG] Magnezone

    A couple of preliminary questions I'd pose are where Mega Manectric and Genesect should go, as seen by the comments I made on them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014
  2. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    I think Mega Manectric deserves its A+ ranking. Intimidate is a great ability in a tier which, as I said in the Inverted General Discussion thread, is dominated by physical attackers. Though I have seen a few more special attackers get usage since then such as Landorus and Latios, I think what I said still holds true. Just looking at Volt Switch, Electric is only resisted by Water and Flying types which is basically Staraptor, Talonflame, and Greninja right now. All of those have weak defenses and will usually lose extra health throughout the battle from recoil and Life Orb damage, so they don't really work as switch-ins. The best things against Manectric are Jolteon and Keldeo, but both have pretty low usage right now. Volt Switch also works great against Avalugg/Chansey cores when facing Avalugg. It does over 50% to physically defensive Avalugg (which is by far the most common set), and you can bring in a physical attacker after your opponent switches into Chansey. Outside of Volt Switch, it gets great coverage with HP Grass and Flamethrower/Overheat to take care of the Flying and Water types.

    I think the discussion was more of whether or not Jolteon should be moved up because of being able to hold Choice Specs. I don't know of any extra KOs you get from Specs though, and while Jolteon has slightly higher Special Defense its physical Defense is much worse. I don't know that Jolteon should be used over Mega Manectric unless there was another mega pokemon that you really wanted to use. I think its A- ranking is fine.

    Genesect I'm on the fence about. Access to Extreme Speed and U-Turn is pretty good, but Genesect is also very weak to priority attacks. It's great that it can have so many different sets, but each one has it's cons. And it isn't that hard to do a calc after its first attack to guess what Genesect set your opponent has. Genesect is especially in trouble if you find out it isn't Choice Scarfed. Mega Medicham, Mega Manectric, and Celebi all can outspeed and OHKO Genesect that aren't holding a Scarf. Scarf Staraptor outspeeds no matter what. I'm kind of leaning towards A rank at the moment, but I'll see what other people (i.e. @Epikhairz) have to say.
     
  3. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    I'm in agreement with Vet here in that Mega Manectric should absolutely be higher than Jolteon, and that it deserves to keep its A+ rank. 2nd bullet, half of third bullet, and 4th bullet are my comments, so I really don't want to have to rephrase what I said but tl;dr - doesn't take up a mega slot, much better coverage, outspeeds most of the meta (even some slower scarfed mons as well as dnite at +1 which is huge imo), and intimidate giving it overall better bulk.

    Genesect I firmly believe from the start deserves its A+ rank as well. Anyone who has played me in Inverted before probably knows that I am an avid Genesect user, and the amount of roles it can fill is absurd, and U-turn provides better coverage than ever before. It's just shy of base 100, sure, but the only relevant base 100s are Celebi and Mega Medicham (unless I'm forgetting something), neither of which should Genesect be staying in on. With a Scarf it is able to outrun even some fast threats such as Mega Manectric and hit it with Iron Head, while even without a Scarf it can still outpace many major threats (Breloom, Keldeo, etc.). The element of surprise is also a great thing for Genesect, as many times I have Avalugg switch into a shiny Genesect, only to smack it with Ice Beam.

    EDIT: Why the fuck did I say non Scarf Genesect outpaces Keldeo LOL
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  4. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    Keldeo actually has a base 108 speed, so it would outspeed a Genesect that doesn't have Choice Scarf. Genesect can switch out of priority users and Celebi yeah, but they still give it problems. I think Celebi deserves special mention for resisting both U-Turn and Ice Beam. I would also argue that the element of surprise only lasts for 1 or 2 turns. You did bring up a good point with Avalugg though. Genesect can use a physical moveset + Ice Beam to break Avalugg/Chansey cores.
     
  5. Avalugg_

    Avalugg_ I'm a table

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    I feel like ambipom should be higher than B ranking, my favorite set to use is the silk Scarf fake out + last resort (I run Silk Scarf over life orb so I will be able to take a banded espeed late game if I haven't been touch by attack, but anyways the only mon that can safely switch into to this surprise monster is Avalugg, def hippo can come in but I usually see it running a spedef set. in my opinion ambipom should be a b+ or a-
     
  6. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    clefable isnt ranked here, and me being the inverted innovator i am, i used it and i believe it should be A-

    its great against stall cores, and particularly shits on avachan with CM MGfable set thats currently popular in OU, beating both clefable and avalugg 1v1. also it can set up rocks and absorb status with magic guard. havent really tried using an unaware wall set but i imagine thats p good too. some things that deter it are its common weaknesses to dragon, dark, and fighting, but against stall, especially dirt common avachan, it provides you with an easy win condition.
     
  7. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    Updated this roughly with new ORAS Megas and moved a few stuff around:

    Mamoswine to A - Beats AvaChans, sets up rocks, and resists Grass, along with decent priority and the ability to use Endeavor for some surprise kills
    Mega Alakazam to A - Encore, Taunt, and the ability to use Psyshock allows it to beat AvaChans, and its 150 speed outspeeds all the new ORAS Megas and hits like a truck. Trace is an added bonus
    Mega Gallade - A: Can get by AvaChans with SD + Ice Punch, and it's faster than Mega Medicham with Drain Punch for decent survivability
    Mega Sceptile - A: Giga Drain and Dragon Pulse are all you need. I personally use SubSeed to annoy Chansey
    Mega Slowbro - You can treat it like CroCune or just use CM/Slack Off/Scald/Psyshock to bypass AvaChans. Also extremely bulky
    Mega Beedrill - U-turn hits like a truck and it has Knock Off for utility as well. Too bad it dies to any physical move
    Kyurem to B+: Grass weakness hurts it a lot tbh so I moved it from A-
    Mega Swampert - B+. Decent Swift Swimmer, Grass resist and Scald can 2HKO Avalugg in rain
    Mega Glalie - B: Can break apart AvaChans, but not much useful elsewhere besides putting up Spikes. Frail/slow pre-mega.
    Mega Lopunny - B: It's basically Ambipom but faster and the ability to use Fighting STAB.
    Mega Metagross - C: Steel typing hurts it, but 110 speed is decent with Grass Knot and raw power.
    Mega Pidgeot - C: Hurricane is pretty powerful, but it struggles to hit Grass-types as they resist all its possible moves

    Reuniclus to A: Trick Room set shits on everything. CM Recover set is decent too.
    Tyranitar to B+: Lots of utility with its moveset, as well as able to trap Breloom
    Talonflame to B: Natural Gift Liechi is not a bad set actually, but it still does too much damage to itself

    edit: in response to @Epikhairz's really old comment (lol) Clefable is also weak to Bug (hi Scolipede and the odd Yanmega) so I don't think I'd have it at A- but maybe B+ is good?
     
  8. La.Melle2402

    La.Melle2402 I'm the bone of my sword

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    Munchlax got a D???? It deserves a B+ or more imo. Curse/Bslam/Rest talk set is awesome in this tier
     
  9. E.T.

    E.T. SSSSSSSSSSSSS! Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Well this hasn't been updated in a long time, so that's probably why.

    Suggestions:
    Serperior: Unranked -> S
    The fact that this hasn't been done yet just shows how long ago this was last updated. Serperior with Contrary is extremely good and was suspected awhile back because it is borderline broken, but we decided to keep it in the tier.

    Celebi: S -> A+ or A
    I've tried using Celebi in the past, and I just don't see the S rank being justified.

    Mega Medicham: S -> A+
    I know this was another Pokemon that was suspected a long time ago, and maybe I've just forgotten how potent it can be, but I don't see it as S material.

    Mega Sceptile: A -> A- or lower
    I'm not sure if this actually needs to be moved or not because it's probably still good thanks to Lighting Rod covering its quad weakness to Electric. However, Serperior is a thing, so I'm not sure what reason someone would have to use this.

    Mega Lopunny: B -> A
    If you're using Fake Out + Last Resort, you're using it wrong. It can be used similar to Mega Medicham, but what it lacks in power it gains in speed. Plus Normal STAB is always nice to have in this tier.

    Meloetta: B -> A
    One of the most reliable ways to beat Chan-Lugg and Porygon2.

    Azumarill: C -> B-
    I think this deserves to move up a little due to its ability to check Serperior.

    Gogoat: C- -> C
    Because of Serperior.

    Miltank: C+ -> B-
    Serperior.

    Bouffalant: Unranked -> C+
    Serperior. Has access to SD, so it can also be used to break walls.

    Goodra: Unranked -> B-
    I'm actually surprised this wasn't ranked. Another decent Sap Sipper that has an interesting move pool to choose from with sky high special defense as well.

    Munchlax: D -> B+
    Agreeing that this is being underestimated. Its Curse set can be very hard to stop after a couple of boosts.

    Nidoking: Unranked -> B+
    Gets a free switch in every time Avalugg comes in. Can setup SR and or Toxic Spikes for the team, has good power with Sheer Force LO, and can even carry Sucker Punch for Fighting-types.

    Nidoqueen: Unranked -> B-
    Basically a bulkier but slower and less powerful version of Nidoking.

    Milotic: Unranked -> B
    Excellent special sponge with access to Refresh and Recover which means that it can usually out-stall things like Porygon2. Could also be a physical sponge as well thanks to Marvel Scale.

    Mega Camerupt: Unranked -> C-
    Nifty special attacker that can be very dangerous with Trick Room support. Doesn't have much of a way to get past really bulky special walls like Chansey though.

    Kecleon: Unranked -> D+
    It's mostly a gimmick, but it can give offensive teams trouble with STAB priority like Fake Out and Sucker Punch. It can stay healthy with Drain Punch and has a great movepool including support moves like SR, but it's usually stopped cold by Avalugg.

    Ninetales: Unranked -> C-
    Has Drought to support sun teams and can hold Heat Rock. Probably the only reason to use this though.

    Victreebel: Unranked -> D
    Can be a dangerous sun sweeper with support, but it's not worth using without it.

    Ditto: Unranked -> A-
    I'm not sure if assessing Ditto's viability should be a thing since it is only as strong as what it copies, but it is one of the best revenge killers in the tier that strongly discourages opposing teams from setting up.

    @sulcata @Celebi. what do you guys think?
     
    sulcata, Funbot28 and La.Melle2402 like this.